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Politics Gun violence in CT

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by Joniemack, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. Joniemack

    Joniemack Beta brainwaves in session

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    27 dead in after a shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, CT. 18 were children

    This hits very close to home for me.



    26 reported killed in Newtown, Conn., school shooting

    If the inevitable conversation does not lead to stricter gun regulation then I'm writing the US off as a lost cause. No fucking kidding.
     
  2. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    It's disgusting that someone would do that. I'll leave my thoughts on gun control out of the discussion, but it is truly horrible that there are people capable of attacking children. What a tragedy.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Random McRandom

    Random McRandom Starry Eyed

    It was two handguns owned by an adult. What kind of gun regulation would have stopped that? It's not like he used an AR-15 like the two previous shootings (which incidentally were regulated during the Clinton years). My feelings are that it doesn't matter what regulations you have in place, if someone is so bent in the head to pull these type of things (along with the others that have happened) they'll acquire the tools necessary somehow. Would you say that it should be law that only one handgun is allowed per household? Ok. So he uses one handgun, people are still dead. Would you say that all guns should be banned? Ok, so now the black market thrives and we have no way of knowing who has what. I can see the argument for regulations on assault rifles and clips over a certain size (to a limit) but I don't see how we can make a leap from assault weapons to handguns with any type of ease or plausibility. $.02


    If anything we need to have more people trained properly on spotting mental illness and/or behavior to try and prevent these type of things from happening. Columbine - kids needed mental help. Virginia Tech - dude needed mental evaluations and possibly more, Dark Knight Shootings - there were plenty of signs that point to mental trauma, and now this - if someone goes into a school and shoots kids, there is clearly some sort of mental trauma occurring/occurred that should have been noticed previously. These acts are rarely truly random.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  4. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Why regulate anything if you can't regulate everything?

    This is tragic, on multiple layers.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  5. Random McRandom

    Random McRandom Starry Eyed

    ....

    I think you'll find both sides of the gun control debate in agreement that it is a tragedy. This isn't about gun control, it's about someone fucked up in the head who didn't get the meds he needed or the home he needed.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    Or got the meds but not the help...

    Won SSRI Criminal Cases


    SSRI Stories
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Random McRandom

    Random McRandom Starry Eyed


    Right on. Good job on that one. Far too often shit is prescribed and true help isn't even considered or offered.
     
  8. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Why isn't it about both gun control and mental health?
     
  9. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    because knives.
    see it's knives here...

    the underlying issue is that there is a human element that isn't being addressed. The inanimate objects are not the culprits here. They facilitate the end result desires of the afflicted nothing more.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    If you can't regulate everything, why regulate anything?

    We can't talk about gun control and mental health issues because of knives?

    Okay. Let's remove bans on DDT. Because smoking.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia ...

    Location:
    Florida
    I think it's fair to speculate that gun regulation might not have a significant impact on street crime, but not so much when it comes to crimes like this one. It's disingenuous to pretend that they are the same thing.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    but there are many laws on the books already. so there is regulation, we agree that there is some regulation. We disagree on the amount of regulation.

    So China has an issue also, should they now ban knives? Of course not, how will they eat their foodstuffs? note that the article states at the end, "Some observers say the attacks have highlighted a weakness in the Chinese medical system's ability to diagnose and treat psychiatric illnesses, which have been on the rise as many are unable to cope with the rapid pace of social change."
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Random McRandom

    Random McRandom Starry Eyed

    that's the thing. Guns ARE controlled. It's not like you can buy them from a vending machine.

    Let's be honest. You can regulate the fuck out of guns, clips, ammo, gear etc. Go ahead and do it...watch what happens. Crime goes through the roof because now people are buying the shit in back alleys (more than they do now) and on street corners instead of having to do a BG check etc to buy from a dealer. Look at what cynthetiq just posted. Should we regulate knives? What about the military? Should they be forced to give up arms? After all, wasn't it a soldier who went on a killing spree in Ft. Hood?

    Or should we rather devote more time and energy to the human condition? If teachers, principals, pastors, HR reps, doctors etc were better trained to spot the tell-tale signs of mental trauma then perhaps we'd be better able to keep people with said issues from obtaining weapons and getting them the help they need. I also agree with Cyn that doctors need to be more cognizant of giving people options in mental health instead of merely prescribing a medication.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Alistair Eurotrash

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    Why do these things happen so much in the US? While I absolutely agree that mental health care is a significant part of mitigating this kind of thing, is the ready access to lethal weapons really not part of the discussion?

    I don't buy it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    could it be possible that the human condition here is that much different than elsewhere?
     
  16. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I suppose that's the case. I think at the very least there needs to be national discourse on this and a political debate.

    A lack of this is ignoring the issue. That is, if you believe gun violence is an issue.

    I'm talking about both guns and mental health here. This is a complex problem. The problem in the U.S. isn't merely too many guns.

    This isn't about knives in China though, so....
     
  17. Alistair Eurotrash

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    Why would that be?
     
  18. Random McRandom

    Random McRandom Starry Eyed


    or rather, it's disingenuous to assume that regulation would have prevented this fuck from committing this act. These type of mass shootings are often thought out and planned. Rarely does someone pick up a gun in the middle of making a sandwich and say "oh hey, I think I'll go shoot up a school/movie theatre/mall today".
     
  19. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Glory's Sun

    There's no need for hyperbole or binary thinking here. This is a complex issue.
     
  20. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia ...

    Location:
    Florida
    No, Alistair, it's not about guns because they are just objects. Like knives and bowling balls. These things are lethal weapons, too.

    The problem is that we are not good enough at recognizing and keeping up with the constant parade of kooks and psychos that we keep churning out of our neighborhoods full of normal people and their inanimate objects.
    --- merged: Dec 14, 2012 at 3:08 PM ---
    I haven't assumed anything. You are. It's this sort of closed door, off-the-table thinking that is disingenuous. You seem to be very clear about what the answers are. I tend to disagree with you.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2012