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Politics The 2016 US Presidential Election

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by ASU2003, Mar 23, 2015.

  1. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Johnson and Stein officially missed the cut for the first debate. No surprise.

    I would like to see the threshold lowered in the future. Any candidate who is at 8% (and higher in several states), like Johnson, can influence the outcome in those states and should be on the stage with Clinton and Trump.
     
  2. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    I think that there should have been one open debate in August where all four parties were on stage, but I would also like to see some other form of voting. It should be between two candidates at the end.

    The Green Party should be looking at how to win like the Tea Party did from inside the Democratic Party. Bernie showed that it was possible, and if it wasn't Clinton, you wouldn't have had the media all helping the DNC's choice.

    60 Minutes did a good interview with Gary Johnson last night. I would hope they will cover Jill Stein too.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC

    Well, to give the GOP credit...they had at least one primary debate where they presented the candidates who weren't as high in the polls.
    I think they should do that for the general, as you noted.
     
  4. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    • Like Like x 2
  5. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Ok....who won?? :)
     
  6. Lindy

    Lindy Moderator Staff Member

    Location:
    Nebraska
    • Like Like x 2
  7. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC

    I don't think it's that it's Hollywood vs. the GOP. (that's cliché by now)
    But I haven't seen this before...a mass ad and so professionally done too.

    Usually it's one actor here and there, each doing their own thing, maybe an interview or a minor mag ad.
    This may be unprecedented in current times.
    Correct me if I'm wrong.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North


    Besides if Hillary wins you get to see Mark Ruffalo's dick.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    I'm semi-active, used to be very active, on a forum that is 99.1% male. A large number of the guys are anti-welfare, anti-government, anti-taxes, anti-gay rights, etc. Many of them believe in owning their own businesses (although few do), pull-yourself-by-your-bootstraps, hard work will get you ahead (as long as you don't have to pay taxes), etc.

    They do not like hearing that the pro-business government they want is the same government that would support big business and large financial institutions in cases of collusion, price fixing, loan &/or interest rates discrimination, selective foreclosures, cronyism, nepotism, conflict of interest, etc. They don't want to hear that politics affects the legal system, i.e. lawsuits over the above could go against them.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    ^And having a bunch of Hollywood actors won't change their minds at all. I'm betting that anything Hillary says, they will take the opposite position on just to spite her too.

    For some reason the Democratic Party wants to go after the middle class voter instead of talking about the angry poor white voters. They don't know how to deal with the religion issue and thinking like they care more about helping minorities and immigrants than rural white voters. The GOP and marketers have successfully defined what it means to be a "patriotic" American male in rural America pretty well though.

    I thought Trump played it smart by being professional, but Clinton had better answers. I will fault Clinton for going negative before Trump, and her "Trumped Up Trickle Down Economics" didn't have the impact of Trump "Why Not?" response to if he would blame Hillary for everything wrong today.

    I zoned out during the second half, but I'm not sure she did enough to get 18-35 year olds and low and no income workers in the swing states.

    It will be interesting to see if the polls change at all. I kind of doubt it.
     
  11. genuinemommy

    genuinemommy Moderator Staff Member

  12. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I think that Clinton won where it matters*: policy.











    *But I don't think that counts
     
  13. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Ok, then here...a neutral analysis on the substance in the debate.
    Yes, it was there...you just had to sift through the drama.
    Trump And Clinton Sounded As If They Were Talking About Two Different Countries

    BUT...here's what many don't understand...
    Policy is voted on by Congress...and executed by the Bureaucrats...and often nixed or played with by the Courts.
    So the Prez can only suggest laws and policy...maybe influence or bully the 'crats...and can't do diddly about the Courts other than replace people who "may" vote for your agenda.

    The power the Prez mostly has is foreign policy (and the military which projects power)

    So there was nothing really discussed about the world, but Nukes. (which frankly frightens me if The Donald needs to make decisions on this)
    But domestic...You gotta get the Congress to cooperate.
    Or SLOWLY change the momentum of the 'Crats, by your political appointees (who are learning on the fly when first getting in...really the perm Staffers are in control)

    There is no magic wand.
    I don't care how "strong" you are.
    Besides, more than half of Congress will cockblock you just because of their OWN egos and ambitions (much less seeing themselves the next prez) **This includes reps in your own party, BTW.

    -----------
    On another note...and a good point I heard from an associate...
    Why do you need tax cuts if you don't pay any taxes?? ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
    • Like Like x 2
  14. martian

    martian Server Monkey Staff Member

    Location:
    Mars
    Trump and his followers seem to think he won because Twitter but post-debate polling seems to disagree. fivethirtyeight shows Hillary up 8 percent after the debate so that's pretty definitive.

    The Donald spent some time during the debate rolling right over both Hillary and Lester. He says he wants to hit harder in the next one. I'm wondering how that will go; I feel like Anderson just won't put up with that shit.

    He also made a big deal about not bringing up Bill's affair(s), as if A) not throwing shit around is some form of magnanimity on his part and B) that has any relevance to anything at all.
     
  15. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    I bet Hillary would have been ready for it in the debate, but bringing it up afterwards by saying you didn't bring it up is kind of low. And what does that have to do with the next 4 years?

    I just hope SNL does a skit with Bill getting bored at the debate and asking Melania if she wants to sneak out back.

    And national polls don't mean much. I would bet that Clinton will win the popular vote, but it is the 6 or so swing states that they need to be worried about.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    In the meantime...amazing how the worm turns.
    2 unexpected newspapers have come out either for Clinton or against Trump.

    USA Today - link
    Arizona Republic - link

    AR is a conservative newspaper, having never endorsed a Dem (since 1890)
    USAT is supposedly neutral and never "taken sides"

    Frankly IMHO, AR is being braver...actually taking a side. (and now getting drops and death threats for it)
    Whereas, the other "punted"...but still unprecedented nevertheless.

    Seems Clinton is now leading in all the swing states by some accounts (depends on who you're asking)

    But being true to form, Trump is doubling down on his feud with the beauty queen
    and deciding to bring up Bill's affairs, despite being advised to not do that by most of the GOP elite.

    AND seems to have broken the law in the past by breaking the Cuban Embargo (there goes Florida...) :rolleyes:
     
  17. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    A followup on that newspaper endorsement story
    Turns out NO major newspaper has gone for Trump.

    LINK

    A few have done Johnson, but quite a few that haven't endorsed a Dem, went for Hillary.
    And then trounced on Trump just to make their point.

    I know Mother Jones isn't a neutral source, but still... :rolleyes:
     
  18. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    The election is now just over a month away. Yeah, I'm pointing out the obvious, but time sure does fly.
     
  19. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC

    I wish it wasn't so long...but with so much power wrapped up into one person with so much influence...it's probably best.
    Gives us time to evaluate and issues to emerge.
    It's not a easy job...I like making them sweat.

    I just wish people would take it more seriously and invest themselves.
    But many ignore it or just vote like it's the X-factor TV show.
    I don't understand how you can just let Fate occur or not try to understand the factors or be manipulated.

    Although, what the media focuses on can be arbitrary and fleeting. Lots of red herrings. :rolleyes:

    -----

    And as a followup to the followup...another atypical endorsement.
    Although the Atlantic isn't known for being "non" left-leaning...
    LINK

    It's quite wordy, but eloquent.
    And although they came out for Hillary...the title is "Against Donald Trump"

    And basically, this is what this election has turned into...not voting for someone that inspires
    but voting AGAINST what many think is the most dangerous and unstable candidate in recent US history.

    If I was Hillary, I'd be insulted...but she's driven on through being insulted before. (even by her own husband)
    You've got to give her credit for being so stoic. (but many don't...)

    Right now, she's become a firewall alternative to letting in power a megalomaniac. (could you imagine the friggin' Presidential Library he'd put up??? :eek: )
     
  20. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    This is starting to get repetitive...
    Former GOP congressmen lash out at Trump

    All of them...signing.
    All of them promoting other Republicans to not vote for Trump...don't do it for party, do it for America.

    Now dammit...why can't you think this way always?
    Or at least you let it get this far?? :rolleyes:

    That's the whole friggin' problem in the first place.
    Why nothing gets done.
    I know I'd be fine with the GOP party if you'd stop playing partisan games and brinksmanship.

    Why wait for scary???