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Iowa Republican Debate (8/11/11)

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by Derwood, Aug 12, 2011.

  1. Derwood

    Derwood Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Always interesting to see how the presidential hopefuls frame the issues.

    I missed the first half hour, but here's a recap of what I saw.

    IMMIGRATION

    The candidates seemed to all agree that a priority should be placed on "securing our borders" (by which they mean Mexico....no mention of Canada). This seems to mean completing 1800 miles of 20 foot border fence and posting guards. Gingrich suggested relocating the Department of Homeland Security to the border states. Ron Paul suggested relocating our troops from the Middle East to the Mexican border.

    TAXES

    Despite their past records (as governors, etc.), they are all vehemently against raising taxes. They all "regret" any tax increases while they were in leadership roles (or flat out deny that they happened). It's 100% a spending problem and 0% a revenue problem. Moderator asks "if you had a deal on your desk that was 10-to-1 spending cuts to tax increases, would you veto it?" The entire panel says they would. I was impressed that Gingrich spoke out against the Congressional "Super Committee", saying it's the stupidest idea he's heard in some time.

    HEALTH CARE

    Moderators and everyone on the panel refer to the current plan as Obamacare (face palm). Pawlenty calls out Romney as having authored the plan (in Mass.) that Obama's plan was based on. Moderator challenges Romney on the constitutional authority (in Mass.) to mandate people buy health insurance. Santorum jumps in with some nonsense about the 10th Amendment, and how we're a country of "morals" (not Muslim or Jewish ones, presumably)

    FOREIGN POLICY/NATIONAL SECURITY

    General consensus was that troop draw down should happen, but that Obama should have listened to the generals. Hunstman says the US and China need to open up more with each other moving forward. Pawlenty thinks we should turn our focus on Iran/Syria. Ron Paul thinks we shouldn't put sanctions on Iran, as "sanctions are not diplomacy". Paul is fiercly against all foreign wars. Paul and Bachmann are at odds over whether terrorism suspects should be given civilian trials.

    FAITH/RELIGION

    Cain says the US does not have the right to impose religion on the citizens. Bachmann called out on a 2006 quote about being "submissive to her husband," but she spun it well.

    GAY MARRIAGE

    Romney contradicts himself here. While claiming that the states should have the right to author their own health care plans (and the federal government should not), but says that the federal government should dictate marriage instead of the states. Huntsman supports civil unions, because "this country can do better on equality." Limited applause on his answer. Paul says "keep government out of it." Santorum claims that "seven state justices 'forced gay marriage' on Iowa." Bachmann was very proud of authoring Minnesota's definition of marriage amendment.

    ABORTION

    Nothing new here. They all claim to be "the most Pro-Life" candidate.

    UNEMPLOYMENT

    Romney would not extend unemployment benefits if he was president tomorrow. He would "reform the system" (vague). Hunstman attacked the EPA's "reign of terror" and blamed them for the inability to build companies/products in the country. Bachmann believes that S&P's dropping of the credit rating "proved her right" (re: not raising the debt ceiling). Cain wants to drop the top personal/corporate tax rate to 25%, drop Capital Gains tax to 0%, and make re-patriated money taxed at 0%. Gingrich thinks the Federal Bank should be completely audited and that they shouldn't be able to work in secret (re: $16T in secret bailouts). Santorum attacks Bachmann and Paul for not showing leadership in congress in balancing the budget.

    WRAP UP - Subtle differences between the career politicians, with the clear "outsiders" being Paul, Cain and Huntsman. In general, the consensus seemed to be "Obama is a failure, so any of us up here would be better."
     
  2. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    This aught to be a very amusing time in American politics. If the Republicans were serious about beating Obama, they would nominate Huntsman. I am pretty sure he will be on of the first to drop out.
     
  3. Bodkin van Horn

    Bodkin van Horn One of the Four Horsewomyn of the Fempocalypse

    I didn't know Cain was still in it. I'm not sure why Gingrich is still in it. I think the Republican Party would have a better chance at beating Obama if they went with a more libertarian candidate, and by libertarian, I mean actual libertarian, and not someone who talks a good game, but is really a big-business social conservative. Gay marriage is the litmus test here. Anyone who thinks the government should be in the marriage business won't think twice about stepping on the rights of people they disagree with.

    I hope that this refusal to raise taxes thing keeps coming up. It's clearly at odds with the desires of a majority of Americans. And unless the GOP is going to nominate someone who isn't fucking nuts, I would prefer them to lose.
     
  4. Derwood

    Derwood Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Very few of the candidates last night will survive until the primaries. Gingrich, Santorum, Hunstman, Cain, etc. have no chance. Ron Paul will stay in (stubbornly), but he's like Ralph Nader at this point.

    FOX News and the rest of the conservative media will pick the winners (Santorum was pissed last night because they were obviously giving him less air time than other candidates). The problem is, Mitt Romney is as phony as a $3 bill, and Bachmann is just plain nuts. Every question to Romney was in the form of "in the past you said X, now you're saying Y, so which is it?" and of course his answer was "well, both of course." He's going to have to fight the fact that his record as governor often runs contrary to the current set of GOP talking points. Bachmann's only "strength" is her convictions and the fact that she doesn't compromise on them (if you think lack of compromise is a good thing in a president).
     
  5. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    So little seems to have changed among the Republicans since the last election. Actually, maybe it's worse. Can it get worse than a McCain/Palin card?

    I hope the Obamas are comfortable in the White House.
     
  6. Derwood

    Derwood Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Rick Perry and Sarah Palin weren't there last night, though both are thought to be joining the race. Perry has some job creation cred, which may jettison him to the top once he joins
     
  7. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Is Perry all about job creation? Where does he stand on the other issues?

    If he's mostly just job creation, his rising to the top would be assuming that conservatives are largely rational, all issues considered. It doesn't take much to kill a conservative candidate when it comes to social policy.
     
  8. Derwood

    Derwood Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    I'm not sure where he stands on other issues. I understand he's super religious, and being from Texas, you'd think he has some strong views on immigration (one way or the other). He's apparently giving his first speech on Saturday in South Carolina
     
  9. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    By "super religious" do you mean uncompromising fundamentalist or bat-shit crazy?

    As an aside, when can we start calling some of the Republican candidates theocrats?
     
  10. Stan

    Stan Resident Dumbass

    Location:
    Colorado
    Is there a difference?

    Obama is too damn moderate for my taste; but I'd consider a Republican that could focus on the business of running the country and leave morality and religion out of the equation. It seems to be a conservative requirement to present yourself as holier than the rest.

    I'm fine with blowjobs in the oval office if the economy gets back on track.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Yeah, I think it best at this point for American politicians to focus on secular issues rather than religious ones.

    Wait, why are American politicians focusing on religious issues at all?
     
  12. Derwood

    Derwood Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    The Southern Strategy lives on, that's why
     
  13. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Oh right. Selective support for the Constitution.
     
  14. samcol

    samcol Getting Tilted

    Location:
    indiana
    that was some of the worst questions for a debate i've ever seen. asking michelle if she's going to be submissive to her husband?

    the field does in a sense like 08 all over again with the exception of perry. what a bunch of mediocre hacks.

    honestly, the only 2 i think even have a chance of beating obama would be paul or cain, they are the only ones offering anything remotely different. however, they have been declared unelectable in the primary by the right and left so they have no chance.
     
  15. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    This is why it sucks to only have two parties in practice. The only other "options" it seems is to be an "independent Democrat or Republican" or be a party of one, like Bernie Sanders.
     
  16. samcol

    samcol Getting Tilted

    Location:
    indiana
    yeah the political party debacle is quite sickening. the established parties will never let a candidate in who doesn't listen to their barking orders.
     
  17. Derwood

    Derwood Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
  18. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    It's an example of what happens when you let fringe groups the the Tea Party hijack the political discourse.

    Republicans who care about being Republicans need to take their party back.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...and-unsupported-by-history-or-facts-view.html
     
  19. Bodkin van Horn

    Bodkin van Horn One of the Four Horsewomyn of the Fempocalypse

    Speaking of Herman Cain, this made me laugh:

    http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/08/did_herman_cain_know_he_was_qu.html

    HERMANCAIN!! I CHOOSE YOU!!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. samcol

    samcol Getting Tilted

    Location:
    indiana
    no one on the right wants raise taxes which i agree with, however, most of them stop short of wanting to cut military spending which is where the debate needs to go. we are taxed enough to cover what i feel is needed for the federal government. the people left of center of course feel different.

    the stance is hypocritical which is why i feel ron paul is still the only viable candidate for the republican party as he wants spending cuts everywhere. what's even more crazy is that his supporters are the founding members of the tea party that has been hijacked by the neo-cons. he wants military cuts which would make him a contender against obama who has done nothing to curb spending at all, but getting out of the gop primary seems impossible at this point.