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Politics The 2016 US Presidential Election

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by ASU2003, Mar 23, 2015.

  1. Levite

    Levite Levitical Yet Funky

    Location:
    The Windy City
    • Like Like x 3
  2. wye

    wye Getting Tilted

    This prayer has some surprising kernels of truth to it. Observe:

    "I'm gonna pray ... Because we are electing ... Donald Trump."

    "Because we are electing a man in Donald Trump who believes in the name of Jesus Christ."

    The pastor soundly diagnoses a dissociative identity disorder whereby the afflicted individual assumes a persona of Christian piety in order to better appeal to American fundies?

    "You are giving him the words ... to keep us divided and not united."

    Self-explanatory. Definitely not a dangling modifier.

    ***

    Sadly, King doesn't seem to understand that the wealth and cultural clout of the United States and postcolonial Europe have been disproportionately greater because they have disproportionately reaped the human capital of peoples historically subjugated.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2016
  3. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    My problem is this:
    it's not that don't share some values with conservatives
    it's that the party and nominee that represents them currently is irrational, delusional, xenophobic and catering to the lowest common denominator.

    The other party and nominee, while dysfunctional, corrupt and at times spineless
    at least has some integrity, rationality, allows for differences and has consideration for others.

    One is a raging horde.
    The other are slimy bureaucrats.

    I cannot realistically vote for chaos.

    Show me that you can act, communicate and vote responsibly...then we'll talk.
    But right now, I'm not seeing it.
    And it's getting worse...
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2016
  4. wye

    wye Getting Tilted

  5. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Raising Kaine

    'nuff said :)
     
  6. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    I'll withhold judgement until after the convention, but it seems like a bad strategic pick. Pence will bring a few million votes and probably a chance at winning WI, MI, OH, and PA for Trump. Who will vote for Clinton now that wasn't going to before?
     
  7. Levite

    Levite Levitical Yet Funky

    Location:
    The Windy City
    I am pissed at HRC for picking this middle-of-the-road, corporation-loving, charisma-less white Christian dude. She's basically saying "fuck you" to progressive Democrats, in favor of trying to woo disaffected Republicans with this staid, tired ticket. I hate that the choice is between this crap-ass neo-liberal bullshit ticket and that fucking insane, racist, xenophobic, bigoted, bloodthirsty egomaniancal cockmonger and his little creepy pale misogynistic homophobic religious fundamentalist lickspittle from the state that might as well be America's 'taint.

    I hate having to vote "damage control" AGAIN.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Lindy

    Lindy Moderator Staff Member

    Location:
    Nebraska
    HRC didn't want to get upstaged, so had to find someone with an even lower charisma quotient than her own.:rolleyes:

    In typical Hillary fashion, she acted to first preserve her own privileged position.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    @Levite - elections are a numbers game, you either inspire or you work whatever demographics possible to get as many votes as you can. EVERYTHING counts.
    She KNOWS she does NOT inspire. And has publicly acknowledged it. (which is a very cruel truth to live with and still move on)
    So she has to do whatever makes SURE she has the most numbers.

    She picked such to cover all the bases possible she does not already for a GENERAL election.
    Sorry, much of the nation are not progressives.
    Sorry, you THINK...many don't. (idiots vote too...and some of them may not be FOR trump)
    She wants as many. who are anti-Trump conservatives she can get, misogynists that want one man at least, someone who speaks Spanish, someone safe, someone considered reliable, etc and so on...
    Even someone who's name rhymes/syncs with hers...to make a good bumper-sticker, please the marketing types...and make it easy and pleasing to remember for some folk that ARE affected by this pablum.

    This IS the sorry truth of politics...you win and keep winning by sating as many groups as possible without offending as many groups as possible.

    Do you want her to stand up for her ideals??
    Or do you want her to win??
    Especially against a fucking insane, racist, xenophobic, bigoted, bloodthirsty egomaniancal cockmonger and his little creepy pale misogynistic homophobic religious fundamentalist lickspittle from the state that might as well be America's 'taint.

    This is a war of attrition. Not ideals.
    She's well aware if the impact and significance if she does NOT win.
    She cannot take ANY chances.

    American politics is not polite anymore. No honor.
    It is just win.

    She can do all the progressive stuff if she wins. (and she's been rated as such from previous actions and trends...more so than biden or gore or others)
    IF she can win.
    IF she can get it through Congress
    IF it's not overturned by the Courts.
    AND if she doesn't want to risk the 2nd term...

    Look at what happened to Obama.
    A person who DOES inspire. (and was more progressive than her)

    Reality.
    It sucks...but you have to deal with it.
    Or the other side wins.
     
  10. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    The number of anti-Trump conservatives who would vote for any Democrat, let alone Hillary is very, very small. She might get a thousand but she pissed off a few million Bernie supporters who now will flock to the Green party. We will see how strong of a message #Demexit has next week.

    #Demexit Gathers Steam: Enraged Over Hillary Clinton's Nomination, Progressives Threaten To Leave Democratic Party In Packs

    The ultra-religious Spanish speakers might vote for Trump, but I doubt that any Latinos who weren't with Hillary are now going to be because she picked Kaine. I worry about the white religious voters in the upper midwest who will side with Pence over Kaine. Those are the swing states, and those states have elected Republican governors by 2-1 margins. Kaine speaking Spanish isn't going to help in Michigan or Ohio.

    I do understand that she couldn't pick Castro to be her VP because of his last name. And even Booker would get made into "Book her, Dano"

    Obama got taken out by the obstructionist Tea Party movement led by the far right wing extremists and corporate/rich individual funding of candidates and propaganda. He did get a lot done on his own though. We will see this week how "progressive" Hillary will be. And not the free college, equal pay, $15/hour crap. Not the gay marriage, trans bathroom, and even racial issues that don't affect a lot of white people in swing states. Trump is talking about trade deals who have exported jobs, and still sell their products for just as much. He is talking about screening immigrants to make sure they have America's interests and values. And while I don't think either of them will be good for the environment, we will see if the Wall St corporations funding the Clinton/Kaine will let her talk about blocking new pipelines, letting states ban fracking, regulating the auto industry, clean power plants, and renewable energy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2016
  11. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    • Like Like x 1
  12. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    I think this election will be about Guns, gays, God, greed, and gasoline. There are plenty of voters in the upper Midwest who vote on those issues, and they are loud about it. Pro-2nd amendment, anti gay, anti-abortion, anti-taxes on them or businesses that might hire them, and pro-wasting gasoline by drilling and fracking and driving big SUVs and trucks everywhere. The problem is that the moderate Democrats are trying to appease the few people in the middle who might be on one side or the other on some of these issues. When both parties and the media has pushed most people to one side or the other, and it doesn't matter who says what at the debates or at the convention, their mind is made up.

    I also wonder who she would pick for the Supreme Court if she picked Tim Kaine? Would she look to pick someone moderate? If the Democrats take back the senate this year, would they block a moderate pick?
     
  13. Levite

    Levite Levitical Yet Funky

    Location:
    The Windy City
    Unsurprisingly, I give a lot of credit to Bernie Sanders right now. The story finally has broken about the degree to which the Democratic Party fucked him, and he's doing the right thing: calls it outrageous, demands change, tells people to vote for Hillary anyway so that Trump doesn't get elected.

    This is what an honest, responsible politician looks like.

    My hope is that most of my fellow Bernie supporters will follow his advice-- as I surely will-- and hold their noses and vote for Hillary. Fucking Sucks is better than Fucking Crazy Evil any day.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    I agree with Castro @ASU2003 but he's now under investigation for violating the Hatch Act by endorsing her.
    That law, first passed in 1939, forbids anyone in the executive branch — other than the president or vice president — from using his or her official position to engage in political activity.
    She can't afford another scandal, even a frivolous one.

    But I don't see a lot of libs or progressives going to the Green Party, I'd be surprised...Although they didn't get what they want. (they don't have a truly viable candidate....nor are they on the ballot on all 50 states)
    However, I do see a lot of conservative and GOP voting the Libertarian way. He's viable, almost able to get on all 50, decent % for a third party candidate...and he may even get int the debates (if he gets to 15% in polling)
     
  15. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    I'm going to say up front that the Democrats have done the smart thing and dumped Wasserman-Schultz bringing in Donna Brazile who is a friend of Hillary (as it should be when you are trying to get someone elected to president) but otherwise has a good record.

    But damn some of the stuff in the background on this is pretty ugly.
    Like the fact that there is a good chance the DNC email dump came from Russian hackers working for Putin.
    Or that when people started criticizing Wikileaks for going along with that (also for publishing a shitload of peoples credit card and social security numbers) they tweeted using the echo ((( ))) tags around the names of their critics, that white supremacists use to tag Jews for harassment.
    WTF?
    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/07/wikileaks-accused-of-anti-semitism-for-using-echoes-in-tweet-insulting-critics/

    In the words of Hunter S. Thompson ""Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why."
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    I like Tim Kaine. He is progressive on most issues while not alienating working class Democrats that Trump is targeting. And he is not nearly as charisma-challenged as he is made out to be. He gave a strong speech in his first appearance over the weekend that will be hard to top when he is introduced to the larger national audience at the convention.

    Consider the VP picks. Both have experience as governors and in Congress, Kaine with a background in civil rights law and Pence, a former talk radio host who described himself as "Limbaugh on decaf."
     
  17. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    My issue with Kaine is that he is way to supportive of the banks and the free market.
    He is pretty much the anti-Bernie when it comes down to that kind of thing.

    He's great on social issues but a bit of a nightmare on financial which to me is just as important.
    It's pretty clear that Hillary is courting the Republicans who can't stomach the idea of voting for small fingered vulgarian.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    I think the claim of Kaine being supportive of big banks is overstated. His biggest complaint with Dodd-Frank was that the standards applied to community banks were too similar to the big investment banks and had unintended consequences on those community banks per this letter from a bi-partisan group of senators.

    While I supported Bernie's positions on most issues, including banking reform, they go too far for most Democrats in Congress and would never have been enacted.

    Clinton/Kaine will hopefully strengthen Dodd-Frank, in part as a result of the role Kaine can play in working with his former colleagues in Congress. Anything more, IMO, would be unrealistic.

    There are times when pragmatism prevails over progressiveness if any changes for the better are to be enacted at all.
     
  19. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    Bernie Sanders activists block DNC in Philadelphia in sweltering 100 degree heat | Daily Mail Online

    Well, if Hillary doesn't try and win over Sanders supporters this week, it could be a hard road to win them back. Especially if Trump tones it down a little and focuses on trade deals, pro-business regulations, and lower taxes. There were enough Nader voters in 2000 to change the outcome of the election, and Obama got the memo to bring those voters in.

    The problem with the Green party is that they don't have the organization, media machine, or think tanks to explain how their programs would work compared to the Tea party. They also should be trying to overthrow the corporate Democrats who will vote for the TPP, let companies build pipelines, and frack (because jobs and taxes, even if those workers vote for Republicans) from within the party like Bernie did. However, I think Clinton was picked by the party 8 years ago to be the nominee this year, regardless of who came along. The next Presidential election will be different. And I don't care if they aren't on the ballot in all 50 states. I know they won't win in Alabama or Texas and a bunch of other deep red states. That is more of a nationwide cultural problem though.

    I think the #NeverTrump movement is just as big as the #NeverHillary movement. Yet, there are more people on the right who hate Hillary. Trump pisses of some groups of people on the left, but Hillary has been trashed by right wing media for 30 years. I just don't know how many people will vote an anti vote for the major party, or vote for their values and vote 3rd party. Point #4 made by Michael Moore was about it and how depressed voters don't put bumper stickers on their cars, talk to their friends, or volunteer for the campaign.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Remixer

    Remixer Middle Eastern Doofus

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    I never thought I'd agree with a political analysis done by Michael Moore.

    But here we are.
     
    • Like Like x 2