This too is getting out of hand TRANSGENDER(ism)

I think you oughta read more (like Snowy's post). If you have access to the internet the resources are out there. If I started calling you "garbage bin" you might not like that, and I might not think it's such a big deal. You can say "aren't there bigger problems" about almost anything.

 

@arkana your post really doesn't show the amount of outrage you have against @DAKA. I'm going to need you to pump those numbers.

 

I agree 100% where the identity is purely at the psychological level. But when it contradict things like biology and anatomy that is where is it false in a grey area.

 

@snowy, I loved the whole quote, but especially that last bit, which I thought was genius in its simplicity... I guess that's why you're a teacher!

Your students are lucky.

 

Good. Because identity is 100% psychological, and 0% biological and anatomical. We didn't evolve out of the ocean with labels stuck to us that said "man" and "woman" - humans created those ideas over thousands of years of culture, and those two genders in particular don't carry the same meaning in different parts of the world.

 

Of course I don't get to decide what they call themselves, just as nobody can tell me not to call myself "Lord Saviour of the Universe". I'm being facetious, however the point is that there is a need for a balancing act between maintaining the status quo and wanting to cater to everyone. I will always talk to people based on their apparent sex, and in terms of ID/Passports I would for example agree to have a third listing of Transsexual or Intersex. I get the North American sentiment leans towards the extreme end of individualistic cultures, but it is frankly naive to think that it is viable for every single request for differentiation by an individual to be catered to by society and thus the government. Why doesn't a laissez faire approach suffice? What do you do when bestialists and furries want to be officially differentiated, for example?

I have a huge dislike for this tendency in discussions of people's rights to state a grave issue with a benign one in the same vein, though I get why people do it since bundling smaller arguments with a populist emotional baseline is an easy way to push them through. I think you won't find anyone on TFP who would disagree that active discrimination and hate crimes perpetrated against transgenders needs to stop immediately, and the vast majority of Western society would agree as well. However, accommodations based on personal identity constructs are an entirely different beast and require a different level of discussion to determine which ones make sense to be implemented.

Millennia of white men running the show? Are you talking globally or only about the predominantly caucasian countries?

In any case, I don't see how the lack of progress on people's rights throughout history is in any way correlated with white men. It has much more to do with cultural shifts, especially when the current age of intellectualism started 200 years ago (speaking in rough terms) due to which a large percentage of the world population has increasingly become educated, with many regions on this planet in the process of catching up to the 1st world. Coupled with the economic elevation of large segments of populations, social progress suddenly became much more viable than prior to the 1800's.

It's not so much a social construct that just randomly came about as the labels "man" and "woman" derive from observation of the difference in primary and secondary sexual characteristics, which is pretty understandable. It's rather that our modern understanding of gender is an intellectual construct we have only recently been obsessed about to define in line with our ideologies. Also, not sure which notable culture you are referencing where there is no clear social and sexual distinction made between males and females.

 

This statement has been something that I've never been able to define, but this puts it all in a nice package. I'm stealing this, thanks.

White is often tagged onto the prevalence of male leaders in cultures. Kinda like everything we stole from other cultures we made white. It's easier to sell/swallow, I mean who wants a historically skin tone accurate deity? Let's make him look like he stepped off a GQ runway.

I just finished a series on the French Revolution and how it's social reforms spread through Europe. Censorship was even put into place in the Kingdom of Austria to try and keep the serfs/robots from thinking about rebelling. Didn't really work, kinda like today.

 

Sorry was not clear enough but that is pretty much what i meant. I don't mind what a person think of his or her self. None of my business. Where i have a problem is when it's contradict constants like a person's physical sex and making it official. It's even more complicated than that if you conciser all the hormones balance needed. it's not just skin deep. I can't personalty give a situation that would affect me if we allow men an women to legally reassign their sex but i can see where it creates problems in other areas of society. Sure a transsexual person can remove the outside label (that is fine) but if they don't realism they never (at least not today and tomorrow) will fully remove the label from the inside then it can creates problems for some.

 

This is asinine. Trans people are people that have (or should have) the right to present themselves however they fucking want. Just like you do in your daily life. You choose your gender expression and so may they. They can choose to have surgery, not have surgery, have a gendered look, choose not to, they are people just like the rest of us and should have the very same freedoms.

 

I'm glad you don't rule-out that biology is often an important factor Unfortunately it often create friction. Sex and politic what can possibly go wrong?

 

You have no idea what I was saying. Don't fucking wink at me when you've entirely misread the post. Read it again without your preconceived notions, or fuck off.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 15, 2017, Original Post Date: Aug 15, 2017 ---

 

Yup, think i will let mama sort-out this subject. Did a search today and found out that trans can legally have their sex reassign in Ontario, Canada since 2012. And the province health care will cover the surgery if the applicant is approuved by a physician. Trans pay taxes like every one else so i'm cool with that. At break i talked with my work colleagues if they new about that and none did. We started the subject but by the end i was considered way too liberal by most. And here i'm considered way too conservative. So yup... will let mama sort that out I will not loose any sleep tonight but i know one or two work colleagues who might

 

Calm down and keep it civil, please.

 

I may have reacted a bit angrily but I'm not going to apologize. I've seen others get angry here and not a thing was said, I don't feel I was really out of line.
EDiT:
The other person that was part of that exchange and I are getting on fine in other threads. I guess complain to a mod if you feel I really overstepped a line, but i disagree on that.

 

The mods failed to carry out their duties if they didn't set the offending people in those instances straight. Nevertheless, other people doing something wrong is not an excuse for you to act the same.

It's disappointing to see you feel this way and be self-righteous about it. I don't have anything else to say on the matter.

 

Remixer is more than welcome to report me. I usually do maintain civility here, and I find it silly that the time I had a passionate and unhappy response I was called on it. I feel I'm being shamed for something that is quite common, and I feel singled out. That said, I should have tried a different approach and should not have said "fuck off," and will try to refrain from that in the future.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 17, 2017, Original Post Date: Aug 17, 2017 ---

I could not care less if I disappointed you. Good day.

 

Oh no, this thread again. Though the last post i sent was the last one i would ever put here. For the record i did not report anyone. Reading the posts i sent here i can see where i pushed too many of Wildmermai's buttons and most certainly others to. I also have my share of blame. In some subject i will have to be more considerate of other's situations before posting. Some people are surely going through a hard time and don't need additional negative comments; especially in this site. I'm very sorry if i have hurt anyone. Freedom does not mean you can be a free-dumb.