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Old 04-15-2007, 12:19 AM   #9 (permalink)
SecretMethod70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixedmedia
Thanks for posting this, shesus.

I have a lot of things to address...just too tired tonight.

But to start out I'd just like to point out, for the time being, that there are a lot of decent, hardworking people who both:

1. live in the ghettos
and
2. listen to rap music

1. I don't live in the ghetto and I find it very difficult to upwardly mobilize myself. But I am white and my address is not in a ghetto, therefore I have two advantages that most black women don't. I think it's important for people to keep an open mind on this issue, because it is very easy to pigeonhole people based simply on the environment they live in. Do you suppose everyone in the ghetto wants to live in the way shesus described it (which I totally believe)? Do you suppose most people in the ghetto want to live that way?
Let's take the apartment complex where I live, for example. Most people here don't have dogs. But a certain percentage of them do and many of those dog owners walk their dogs in our grassy areas and they shit everywhere making traversing these areas like a fecal minefield - basically unusable for the majority of tenants who live here. Now I and others have complained repeatedly about this to the apartment management. But the management is overworked and poorly staffed, the complex is overcrowded and hard to manage so little gets done other than an occasional flyer distribution which has little to no temporary effect. Now most of us living here don't want to live this way. We would like to let our kids run out in the grass or even take the shortcut through the grass when carrying our groceries in, but we cannot. The best we could do to improve our living conditions it seems is to move somewhere else, but since this is the most affordable complex in the area that is still a halfway decent place to live we stay and live with the shit. Now imagine if this apartment complex were the ghetto and the dog owners and their dog shit were drug dealers (that you feared) and liquor bottles and crack pipes and used condoms and the apartment management were an overworked, poorly staffed and funded municipal government. And imagine if you were living in these conditions and working two jobs just to get by and trying to keep your kids out of trouble. You might feel helpless and powerless to effect change in your community and unable to move somewhere else because you can barely afford the rent or the house payment in your ghetto home. I think we misplace a lot of frustration we feel over the situation in our ghettos and inner cities. We put the burden for solving it onto the shoulders of those who are the most powerless to do anything about it.

And one more thing, if our goal is to have more racial harmony, a color-blind society, then why is this only a black problem? We want racial harmony and a color-blind society only when they've reached the level of socio-economic mobility that white people are able to achieve - that which was handed to us with no struggle for it whatsoever?

2. I've known lots of young black men, and lots of young white men for that matter, who listen to rap music that glorifies "ghetto culture" who DO NOT emulate that lifestyle. To say that the music in and of itself is causing people to live in a certain way is a little disingenuous coming from a set, that I would imagine, was in steadfast defiance of the PMRC when it was attacking the lyrics and lifestyle depicted in much rock music (aka, white music). Are we to assume that white kids are more resistant to being influenced by the form of music they listen to? Could we (again) be misplacing some of our frustration with the socio-economic imbalance in America and its effect on black inner city neighborhoods? And can we agree that that very lifestyle glorified in rap music is also a direct result of that socio-economic imbalance?

In other words, isn't the socio-economic imbalance between blacks and whites in America (Americans) the responsibility of us all to overcome?

Just some concepts to mull over. Guess I got a second wind, lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_dux
I dont believe the problem is as simple as blaming it all on self-victimization, which, as I read it, is the thrust of the OP.

Absoutely, personal responsibility and a value system that honors education and hard work is central to a postive change for one's family and close community. But there are larger societal issues as well that contribute to the ongoing cycle of poverty.

Two quick examples:
The disparities in education funding (shesus - compare your school to a school in a wealthy or middle class suburb - the basic infrastruture, the teaching tools, etc. that make for a far less inviting learning environment).

The disparities in lending (a hard-working person in the community putting his/her savings in a neighborhood branch of a national bank, hoping to buy that vacant lot in the OP and start a small business, but faces redlining from that same bank which wont lend that hard-working depositor money to start that business).

And as to rap, doesnt some country music (at least before it became more mainstream) promote alcholism, adultery, "taking that job and shoving it" ?

I may have a second wind tommorrow.

Oh..and Shesus...I do applaud you for your personal commitment! Teachers are the most undervalued profession in the country, particular those who are willing to take on the added challenge of an inner-city school.
Quoted for truth. I could dig up the various reports and statistics I accumulated related to this issue, or maybe make a few book recommendations that illustrate just how difficult it is to "take responsibility" (not that responsibility doesn't need to be taken, but the situation is FAR more complex than that). But, frankly, the posts by mixedmedia and dc_dux illustrate most of the points quite well, and I'd rather not waste my time or anyone else's when there are already excellent posts in this thread. So, we should all read them again, and let them sink in just a little deeper.

EDIT: OK, I lied. I remembered and wanted to share an excellent article from The Economist. It's a couple years old and I can't say I agree with everything in it, but the overall point is made quite well and I probably do agree with 90-95% of it. (It's hidden for the courtesy of people's scroll fingers Click the bar below to expand the admittedly lengthy article)

Quote:
Ever higher society, ever harder to ascend   click to show 
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Last edited by SecretMethod70; 04-15-2007 at 01:20 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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