TFP Town Hall: The Porn
 

Ladies and gentlemen, lets talk about porn. Here at the TFP, you have access to thousands of images, videos and other resources for sexual arousal. We all make use of the porn in many ways. Some only come to the TFP for the porn. Some ignore it completely and even wish I would shut off their access to it. Porn has been a part of the TFP since the beginning and it is without a doubt the major reason for its original rise to popularity. The porn is fun to look at and it always comes in handy. The single members appreciate it. Some couples make use of it. And then there are just as many people who wish it would go away. Lets talk!

My thoughts on the porn are conflicted. I use the TFP for many many things. The porn is one of the things that gets me through the day when I just need to see a pair of breasts on my iPhone. Its a convenient way to access such material without being bombarded with ads. I trust my site to not plant viruses or spyware on my computer. I've been exposed to lots of new material that turns me on and I develop new ways to enjoy myself. The TFP gets a lot of traffic from porn, and that traffic translates into a higher ranking on search engines, making it easy for both porn users to be converted into community members and for regular surfers to stumble upon the community.

Porn is not socially acceptable though. I put the TFP on my resume and I fear that it limits my potential job pool. I ask people to share the TFP with friends and family, but the second most popular excuse not to, behind the anonymity factor, is the porn. Paypal has killed 3 of my accounts because of the porn, preventing me from collecting donations online. I feel like the porn also limits the diversity of the crowd much the same way an NC-17 rating is financial death for a movie.

One misconception about the porn are that it gets more attention or priority than the actual community. The truth is that it is ultimately just a vehicle for traffic, search ranking, and added-value. Another misleading conception is that the porn costs us money. It used to cost us money, but the price of bandwidth nowadays means I get more than enough data transfer each month to handle 5 times the traffic we currently get without it costing a dollar more. I constantly debate with myself about potentially removing it from the site. We've tried to do many things; limiting access to senior members strangles and stagnates the content, limiting visibility to only registered members only confuses them because they didn't know it existed before. Completely removing the porn would instantly cut off many avenues of traffic.

I know many people think that the TFP can stand up on its own without the porn. The truth is that we can't kill our main avenue for traffic without building another. That part partially rests in the hands of those same people. If people linked to the TFP more on their blogs or on other forums, we wouldn't need a "crutch." If people worked their butt off to create original and interesting content for the board, we wouldn't need the sure-fire draw that porn provides. A lot of people say that the side has deteriorated, but when I look around, it's just me and a few other (very special) people who are posting original articles, expositions and features. If we want the TFP to be a remarkable place, we have to make it remarkable, we can't just wait for it to get there.

I want your opinions on what the porn means to you and what you think it means to the TFP. Do you want it to stay or do you think it should go? If you think it should go, what do you propose we do to make up for the loss in traffic? This isn't the only issue to be addressed regarding the TFP, but this particular discussion needs to happen.

I'd think if you attached a poll to this thread, there would be a large number that wouldn't care if it was gone. I'd also assume that this is cussed and discussed at length in the admin and mod forums. Perhaps it would be of use to compare the general population opinion with the staff opinion. Of course that doesn't help as far as figuring out how to make up the traffic.

I wouldn't care if it was gone.

I wouldn't be here if it wasn't here in the first place.

Sex sells, and friends and family won't fill the gap, and that sort of thing makes the place all cliquey.

I posted on this a year ago when the porn was mostly gone and tfp seemed to be in the dumps. Kill the porn, slowly kill TFP. If anything it needs more porn. The best thing that happened to TFP was when it became 'best boobies' site on fark.

Thats like 15 minutes on Opra for a website.

i think the porn is fine. if you don't like it, you don't have to go to it since it's restricted to certain boards. people can easily enjoy discussing LOST or grey's anatomy or bon jovi or whatever without even glancing at a breast.

the freedom's also there, if you see a picture you like and feel like sharing, you can. that's not there with most message boards. it adds to the atmosphere of this place and helps make it what it is. plus, i like the fact that it's 18+ and think that no matter what, that should definately never change and if you're website's 18+ you might as well have some tits on there

This is pretty much me. I found TFP from the porn, guys from the guitar.com forum actually posted this site and that is how I found it. But I stay for reading the articles and the community.

I don't read news papers or watch TV so I don't really get any media shoved down my throat, the only reason I know anything about the world is from the articles posted here.

I do have a sneaking suspicion that I'm one of only a handful of people who wasn't initially attracted to TFP via the TB. I can personally take it or leave it, but I certainly cannot deny the importance it plays in how often TFP is used or found.

What does it mean to me? It's an area I rarely use on TFP. I happen to think it cheapens the community, but that's just a personal opinion.

Do I think it should stay? Yes. For better or worse, the relationship between traffic and the availability of pornography are directly proportional and I doubt it's coincidence. Unless the goal is to thin the herd here on TFP, it obviously should stay until something just as viscerally stimulating replaces it. I can't think of anything as viscerally stimulating as pornography, so here we are.

We can always supplement the pornography in a search for alternate lures, but getting rid of the porn would mean we would be a few people in a big room. Like Montana.

Exactly ditto.

I agree with both Ratbastid and Ustwo on this 100%.

I think the porn has served as a gateway to TFP. I think that gate could be closed and TFP wouldn't suffer in the slightest.

I kinda think that there is a nice sort of community of users here already, and while it's nice to grow, I also enjoy coming back to a place where "everybody knows your name, and they're always glad you came." You can finish the song, but I think its appropriate.
Could we survive with the members we have now? Do we need that constant stream of newcomers? Could we survive on newcomers that came through other means?

I would be fine if we got rid of the porn, but unfortunately I can offer no real valid ways of bringing others in without it. I am sure there must be something.

Maybe there's a way to keep the porn, but limit it. Is there some way we could corner a niche market of the porn world? Specialize in amateur or something? I don't know. I'm just talking out my butt.

No, it wouldn't survive, we would get bored.

I know how pretty much any old time poster will react to a question by now, I can even predict to myself who will say something like 'I hate to agree with Ustwo again but....' when I post on a subject. I'm sure most know my reactions too.

New people bring in new angles, they also spur new thoughts from old posters.

Porn is great because its a universal attractor.

Now could at some point TFP be so popular it no longer needed porn? Sure, but I don't think its there.

Look at a site like fark. Go back several years. Take away the boobies links. Fark today would be?

We're veterans of a sort. I don't think that you've ever bored me in the 3+ years I've been on TFP.

I'm not generally a 'me too!' kinda guy, but Ustwo really seems to have summed up popular sentiment. So, yeah.

Me too!

I imagine we could do without the porn if there was more of a visual and written emphasis on my diamond shaped chest hair- maybe a new logo, one that gives my chest hair more prominence than it currently enjoys, or maybe somehow putting all the site's content behind a slightly transparent image of my mid-tits that scrolled with the window. That's only if you're really serious about getting rid of the porn, though.

Unfortunately I came riding into TFP on the porn wave.

That being said, porn is everywhere, there is nothing special about it. There is however something special about the rest of TFP.

I say kill the porn.

Wow, to try and think of TFP without what originally made it what it is, is difficult. I think TFP would stagnate. Some of the core users would maintain their activity but after a while, what would attract new users? Word of mouth won't sustain the inevitable decline, or at least I don't think it will. Porn is a pretty big umbrella, I'd classify TFP as porn-lite. Some of the newer YouTube like sites are much more in your face than TFP is. There certainly are other sites for free porn but I prefer to come here for the enhanced experience of this site also being a community. I'm not sure how one without the other would survive.

As long as you keep "Tilted Sexuality", you will always have porn in a sense.

At any rate, keep it. We're adults, we don't have to look if we don't want to see. It simply wouldn't be the TFP without it.

I'm with Ustwo on this one as well, that just feels strange to say.....

I came for the porn, and stayed for the rest= without the porn, you change the community, and the type of person that the community attracts- in short it would gradually transform this place, in a slow but dramatic way- and I suspect, eventually kill it off- we are what we are because of the adult content- beyond that, porn, religion, and sales drive the net, and we sure arent going to add religion in a way that would attract people, and unless hal really sells out big time, we cannot effectively become a sales site.......porn to tfp is like the force to jedi's- without it, eventually no one cares anymore.......

Porn is the lube that holds us all together.


....I mean gue.... gah, GLUE.... I mean GLUE!


Well, it brings many of us here, anyway.

Yeah, what Ustwo said.

What do you define as interesting content? I'm pretty much done contributing original content to this site. I have an extremely varied taste in hobbies, and a habit of documenting them...I actually have the pictures for four or five more writeups on my memory card, but it just isn't worth the hassle for this site. Anything I put up here gets very little feedback--an average of about five or six replies on the writeups--(although I love the feedback it gets, don't take me wrong!), and because of the porn, I can't link anyone to it. I don't regret putting them here, as I've made one important connection (hi doodlebird!), and maybe inspired two or three people, but I'm going to pull all of them off and put them in a personal blog. I like this place for social interaction, but as a creative outlet, it is extremely lacking.

I'm not trying to be full of myself, but a comprehensive writeup on a topic of general interest, with clear pictures, is about as interesting as content can get.

Just for reference, here's content I've contributed in the last six months:

• How to make Acrylic Halftone paintings.
  
• How to get started with low-budget home automation
  
• How to mod a nerf gun to be awesome for $10
  
• How to make a cat ladder from ikea bits
  
• Running barefoot is awesome--a review of Vibram Five Fingers
  
• How to make kickass shirts for almost free

If I'm barking up the wrong tree here, somebody tell me. I guess these topics aren't really conducive to discussion, but then again, traffic-generating user created content like you are describing is never going to be anything more than a message board equivalent of a youtube vid with 'thanks that's great!' or 'can you clarify some details?' type comments. It's actually ironic that I mention youtube, because I posted a retarded 30 second clip on youtube showing how to shoot two nerf guns at once, never really linked anyone to it or did anything to promote it, and, in the same six months, have gotten more comments on it than all of my writeups here combined.

I've never seen a top 10 digg (or reddit, or del.icio.us) link that reads "A really thought provoking community discussion about whether it is ok to date two girls at once." or "Is fish meat, so I can know if I can eat it?"...not to imply anything about the quality of those particular topics. TFP is more like a group blog than anything else, and its normal content isn't of the type to generate any traffic. The couple articles that you, Halx, wrote are about the only things that saw significant traffic bumps, and those were only because you pushed us to digg the content. If all content doesn't get the same push, we'll never get traffic from it.

tl;dr version: I've tried generating content for this site. It doesn't draw views feedback, or traffic...I could have gotten more feedback on it by leaving it saved to my desktop and asking people to look at it when they were at my house. Without significant changes in attitude, keep the porn or the site dies.

Most people don't know it, but I've been coming to TFP for a loooong time. I've been here through several incarnations. And I too originally showed up for the porn. However, that was several years ago. Back then there was no such thing as a blog (god I hate that word). Now there are porn blogs everywhere. There also wasn't a single image hosting site that you could hot-link to. Now there are multitudes of them. So, while I personally haven't visited the TB much in years, I'm not quite sure what makes it unique enough to set it apart from the millions of porn blogs (hate) out there.

Also, at some point in recent history, I believe that the adult sections were opened up brand new members. I assume that this was an effort to increase traffic, and hopefully some quality posters would spill over as they have in the past. However, It seems that both the quantity and the quality of posts have been decreasing instead of increasing since the "all-skate".


So if the TB is not generating contributions to the rest of the site, then is it really useful and or/relevant?

twistedmosaic, I love your contributions and appreciate them greatly. Its useful content that you cannot find elsewhere. I say keep it going.

I came for the porn...stayed for the community.

I don't check the TB often, but I'd miss it if it wasn't there.

Well, I didn't come for the porn!
I do like porn and look at it all the time on other sites but I still don't look at the porn here very often. I usually end up missing out on the porn here because when I log in I start at the top and work my way down. Reading all the different areas I usually end up getting side tracked by looking into something or other I've seen on here and pretty soon I am no where near TFP reading about something I had no idea I wanted to read about.
Keep the porn though. Everyone knows porn sells and its good for ya too.
Ive had discussions with friends about how to make electric cars sell better then IC cars.... All you would have to do is some how integrate porn into them and everyone would be buying them and keep them too. need proof? know anyone with a betamax player? I bet they have porn. same with laserdiscs most people with them will have porn. it holds true for any new tech. make porn available through your product or service and people will want it.
I'm not going to say tfp needs porn to survive but it sure helps.
Oh, and if any TFP'ers integrate porn into an electric car and become billionaires don't forget about who gave you the idea!

I didn't come for the porn, but I do like Wayside.
I think it sucks that Paypal closed the accounts-were any in your personal name? Because that's probably how you'd have to hold onto one.
Keep it. When things get a bit slow, I know I can depend on Bobby's finds in Wayside to give me a chuckle.:thumbsup:

Well that's definitely true. I would wager that 90% of the people on this site are the kind of people who would start visiting a site because of its porn. That's a particular kind of person, you know? Not rare, necessarily, but particular. And it's made this site what it is. You get rid of the porn, and a) your big fishing lure is out of the water, and 2) the people who do come are people who want to argue or who want to emote or want to troll, they're not "our people"--people who come for porn and stay for community.

I'm curious to know the gender composition of TFP members. While I don't care one way or another about the porn, I do think that since it's the major draw for most people to come here... that it's naturally going to slant the gender composition towards males (and yes, I know not all males like porn, and not all females dislike porn... I'm one of 'em... but you have to admit that it has an effect).

I'd like to discuss how we can attract more female members to TFP, since I think the variety of topics and responses would benefit from a more balanced gender ratio. It would be great to get it closer to 50-50, though I have no idea what it is right now... is there some way of figuring this out?

I'm yet another who came for the porn and used to be fairly involved in the Wayside board, but now don't really visit that section very much. If you kill it I won't mind, but what will bobby do with all his spare time?

I really question how accurate the assumption is that we would get bored with tfp were it not for porn. In fact I'm surprised at some of the people claiming that the porn section is that important to them. These are the people I see posting interesting content in politics, tilted living, sexuality and general discussion.

No offense to anyone, but I rarely see the same people who post "Thanks Bobby" sharing anything else. Again, that is not a jab at Bobby. Nobody can deny what Bobby has contributed to the growth of tfp.

Being brought to the board via a link on Fark or some other site is one thing, but the porn here is nothing unique really. Not like the discussions often tend to be. And certainly not like the community aspect of the board tends to be. Hell... Someone could post a question wanting to know how to get a sweaty ass stain out of a leather sofa cushion and likely get several good replies despite the board not being about sofas or sweaty asses.

I look at it sometimes, I would miss the Titty Board if it was gone, but I would still come here. I was here for a while before I thought to look at the Titty Board. Put me down as a vote for keeping the porn.

I didn't come for the porn and only learned about how it was what started the TFP a while later. It's also not what made me stay. I always keep coming back to the TFP.

That said, I like porn. So I don't see why it has to go. Most people I know enjoy porn of one sort or another. We're all adults right? I think we should keep it.

good lord, i agree with ustwo.
not only that, but i dont have anything to add to what he said in his first post to the thread.

I don't hink Halx is saying it has to go. I think he feels it may be a resume stain and ponders what the outcome would be were it to be gone or what can be done in terms of replacing it.

well, since fark has been mentioned - you could try what fark did, if the programming wouldn't be too much of a hassle. move the porn to a sister site, and cross link between the main pages. tfproject <=> tfporn. you've got a huge community of porn lurkers, and they will never cross over to the discussion side. you've got a fairly substantial community of discussion board types, who view the porn side to varying degrees. if you officially separated them, i don't see how that would really alter anything. probably just make the current separation more de juris instead of de facto.

That'd also solve the PayPal problems....

The only question is whether it would result in an inflow of people from the porn to the main site, the way we see now.

Right, except that it's the ones who do move over from the porn to the discussion that keep this place from stagnating. There are a few who come to the site via other means (usually googling a specific subject, from what I gather) but the vast majority seems to come for the porn and stay for the chatter. With the current system it's easy to make the transition, since it's all on the same page. If we hid the discussion from the porn users then there'd be fewer of them making the jump.

Really, so long as there's no repercussions in terms of bandwidth and the resulting overheard/site speed, I see no reason why the titty board needs to go anywhere at all.

There's usually not much in the way of good threads in The Erogenous Zone. I don't know if that's a product of the rules in place tending to stifle discussion, or if it's just that people aren't in the mood to type.

I've been on other boards where there was more community integration with the media (porn or not) where discussions of content or technique were commonplace. Mostly it's just "She has breasts! I like breasts!" level 'round here.

It's not a Bad Thing, though, because the separation between the porn and the rest of the board means you don't have people making fart jokes in the middle of an otherwise Serious Thread.

That's exactly how I've felt over the past year or so. I got so tired of reading the same thing from the same people. It got to the point where I didn't need to know what the topic was, I knew what certain people would say because they always say the same things. I took a break and now I'm mostly a lurker.

The TB got me here but honestly I have other great resources for that content. Therefore, it could stay or leave and that won't change my viewing habits at all.

What it would represent is the gradual selling out of the tfp. I've always thought that too many people take this place too seriously. I mean really, it's just a message board. However, the TB gives it an edge. If you take it away to make it more appealing to the masses you might as well start posting ads and making money off of the place. What would be next, censoring the more extreme viewpoints on the board?

Look at fark. The place is a joke nowdays.

but this is a separate problem.
it is a driver behind the waves of boredom that i expect anyone experiences who has played anywhere like this long enough experiences.
i think it follows from the simple fact that every time a debate takes place, it starts all over, without reference to what has happened before.
that there are new folk around for whom what has happened before isn't necessarily relevant compounds the problem--but it is different from this topic, and may be a structural problem with messageboards themselves.

Ditto.

If there were no porn, would TFP then become open to the under-18 crowd? I suspect that it would negatively affect the quality of the board; even if not, it would change the feel of the board considerably.

Yeah, we already have enough children here!

(waves hand)

...

I actually have a lengthy response to this typed up, but it needs editing.

...

Like anybody gives a fuck.

Wait, you're capable of EDITING? When did that happen? I always figured we saw your complete stream of conciousness.

Personally, I think that we need the porn traffic. It's our most consistent source of new blood, and I think that anyone who says that we don't need new blood hasn't been around long enough or paid attention to the ebb and flow of personalities sites like TFP go through as a matter of course.

That said, I wouldn't mind if the porn went away. It would probably encourage me to share it more readily with friends and family; as it stands, this is my little secret, except for the wife.

Ridiculous thought that reveals the depth of my un-knowledge about message board databases: Can we have our cake and eat it to?

Can we have TFProject.org be this exact board, and Upstanding.org (or something) be the exact same board, sans errogenous zone? Different URLS, and no links from upstanding to tfproject, but all the posts in the non-erogenous zone get mirrored over both domains?

I must say I find this sentiment to be odd. You yourself found TFP due to the porn, yet you wish to kill the very thing that generates the most traffic? Why kill the only thing keeping your community alive and thriving?

I give 'em out, but nobody takes 'em.

It's kind of a common theme among most of the replies too.

Isn't the porn section basically just a place for bobby to keep his personal collection?

Abaya said:
I think this is right on. I would not be surprised if this board was 80-20 males to females, and its doubtless due to the porn draw. I'd love to even the numbers. How should we do this? Maybe open up more threads for women? Is that possible? I don't know how we would advertise to women? What about if we upped the porn for the ladies? What if we created a Josh Duhamel thread or a Scrapbooking thread? What if we just got rid of all the porn and replaced it with threads on scrapbooking?

While I wouldn't care too much if the adult forums were gotten rid of, I don't think getting rid of them would do much to solve many of the problems here. In fact, I think those problems would only worsen.

Higher quality porn, reinstating the post requirement before being able to access those forums, and more aggressive moderation would do much more towards bringing in new members and keeping this place interesting than axing it all together.

But when it comes to Hal's Job opportunities....it's not worth limiting him.

Twistedmosaic, you blow my mind. Thanks for reminding me
what is possible.
Halx, although I've yet to truly contribute, thanks for providing the forum.
If porn provides, then let there be porn.

I completely agree with this, except for the cheapening the community part.

I didn't stumble across the site for porn, I was looking for women's perspectives on a certain issue. I don't frequent the Titty Boards unless I'm actually bored.
But sometimes a girl needs a little Monty.

I joined TFP because it looked like a good place to have online discussions...and it is. The TB was unavailable at the time that I joined and I only learned of it's existance by coming across some comments about it.

I look at the TB every once in a while, but whether or not it's here won't play any role in whether or not I'm here.

I wouldn't have found this place if it weren't for the porn. I'm throwing ideas around in my head about what to do, but I'm nor sure as of now.
No.
Unless you want his house to collapse under the weight of thousands of hard drives, there's no other choice.

Glad to hear your enthusiasm, Daoust. (Was wondering if anyone else felt this way.) However, I have no idea who Josh Duhamel is, nor have I ever touched anything related to scrapbooking. :lol: So if that was going to draw women, it wouldn't have drawn me. ;)

I came here because ktspktsp was a lurker and he introduced me to it... but I don't mind the porn (it's easy access when I want something for masturbation--but otherwise, I don't think I would've found it on my own). I'm still trying to think of how we would draw women here... other than creating a forum for Tilted brides :p or something (another forum I've enjoyed is for "indie brides" and it's LOADED with women, most of whom are smart and definitely non-mainstream... the kind we like around here). ;) But yeah, most women aren't on the internet looking for porn... so how to get them here?

Why does it matter if you're a man or a woman? Do your breasts somehow contribute to the content of your posts? Does my penis detract from mine?

I mean, yes, there are issues that are gender-specific and y'all have your own semi-private corner specifically for the ladylike discussion. But really, I don't see how a fifty-fifty gender distribution is inherently better than any other arbitrary ratio.

In other words, I'm quite satisfied with the fine ladies we've already got.

Wait...theres Porn here?






seriously though, its almost as if we have two cultures in TFP. One exclusive to Boobies, and one that barely even notices its here. The nice thing is we sometimes get very cool contributing members from the Porn culture...think of it as therapograghy.

Actually what if we eliminated gender? Think of it, the internet is pretty much the only place where you could do that. If posters had no identifiable gender affiliation, would it change the tenor of discussion? Would people feel freer to express themselves?

I think it would be a very interesting social experiment.

I didnt arrive here for the porn, I dont look at the porn, unfortunately there isnt any here that interests me....gay looking pretty boy naked men dont do a thing for me, so I would not miss it one single bit if it were gone

I guess it all depends on whether or not we are getting people that stay around and contribute from the porn or not

I don't think it's necessarily better... I have no data from which to draw that assumption. But I am the type to always want more balance. And I do think that men and women often contribute substantively *different* perspectives, and that's a good thing... so I'd just like to see what that looks like. I'd like to hear more women's voices, more than the usual who are always talking (like me, lol).

The problem could also be that men are just more vocal/present in the forum, and women tend to keep to themselves for the most part. I notice this on polls where it asks for "if you are a man" vs "if you are a woman"... and there is a HUGE difference in how many people from each gender responds, even with a totally random topic. I have never known if this was a problem of actual numbers (e.g. less women members), or lurkers (e.g. same # of women, but they are more quiet than the men)... but I am leaning towards the former, in the absence of actual demographic info.

You could go trolling for women on the indie brides site and recruit them to come here. Like a cyber Jehova's witness, but without the waking-your-ass-up-early-Sunday-morning.

That may not be all that bad an idea. I don't know what indie brides are (I guess I could google) but were there a topic discussed there (or any forum for that matter) that is perhaps better discussed here, then the tfp post could be linked.

Unless of course the other board owner frowns upon that. Then there is the option of PMing the link to someone who could find the tfp information useful.

I've been a member here for awhile now, though I pretty much lurk – as my posting attention was taken up by another board and I couldn't really pay attention to two. But I do come round and read, and I think it seems to me that a lot of the 'type' of people who come to TFP - as others have already said - are folks who come for the porn and then find that there are people to talk to as well!

And those folks do end up being pretty cool more than not, I think. Maybe it's just a thing to attract the kind of folks who fit in here. Otherwise, what do you get? Internet forum junkies? Board trollers? Nobody wants that.

:lol: I think I've actually "advertised" there a couple of times, but yes, perhaps I will step it up... :thumbsup: They do have one lil' "Sex and Health" board there, but I'm sure many of those women wouldn't mind getting more info elsewhere...

There is only one regular female poster that wouldn't be identifiable as female that I can think of.

I'll give you a hero cookie if you can guess who ;)

Porn? This site has porn????

I've actually fallen off in contributions to the core of tfp and should spend more time doing just that. At a place like fark the trolls run wild and will flame you for nearly anything you post. Here you get civilized discussion, a true trade of ideas and a sense of community that you just can't find anywhere else.

I came for the boobies and still enjoy a peek-see for exactly the same reason Halx mentioned. You can take a quick break from the reality of the day and do it safely here. You won't get ads or viruses or other crap you don't want, don't need and certainly wouldn't go looking for. It's clear the porn keeps new blood coming in but perhaps as other posters have said the post limit should be reinstated to get new people to contribute. Maybe reset the post counts periodically so that traffic is driven to the heart of the forum.... I would miss it if it were gone because of the safety factor. You know you're not going to get crap you don't want when you visit the tb. I would still come back to tfp regardless. This is just a cool place to be....

I prefer oatmeal raisen. :)

Edit: Dayum, I participated in a threadjack. :)

I was invited to TFP by Mal and there was no mention of a porn element. At that time, one earned their way into some of the forums. I don't consider bare breasts as porn and it seems pretty harmless to me, but as others have said, I don't invite people here because of the more explicit images.

I applaud the recommendations to separate the board with self-referring links. It's possible that new traffic would increase if the porn and nonporn sides were advertised in different communities. I think the idea to promote and expand the interests of women might also offer good traffic prospects. Not scrapbooking, but emphasis on the issues/interests of the "modern woman." Ladies Only serves a purpose, but limits broader conversations with men as participants.

Hal, I have been meaning to ask you about how "safe" it is that members have personal exhibition posts here, when it appears that you have removed your own pics. The same job concerns you have mentioned might also effect your membership. Do you have any specific advice to share?

Porn is the norm now, and you can get it so easily. The value lies in the porn generated by the users. I say get rid of the Titty Board and hide the user's pr0n somewhere.

This discussion has given me some good ideas. It helps to know the attitude of the community so that I can shape my plans for it better.

Regarding exhibition: My advice to anyone who wants to post in exhibition is to stand by your post; do it because you want to express yourself, not because you want people to like you. Use the file attachment feature on the board so that the images cannot be hotlinked elsewhere and that they can be taken down on notice of foul play. Too many people revoke their contributions because they feel unappreciated by the lack of reaction - only post if you're committed to your own expression. Elphaba, I haven't really removed my pics; most of them were hosted under tba-ownz.org which the original registrar parked prematurely. The others met a similar fate. If they were still visible today, I wouldn't take them down. I see no need to repost them. I'll probably post more in the future, but I haven't felt inspired to do so in over a year.

When I first came here I wasn't aware of the Titty Board. I came for the political discussion and stayed for the porn. I don't do political discussion anymore, but I continue to enjoy the porn. Come to think of it, there's not much difference between the two.

My routine when I sign on to TFP is to first search the new posts. If I find something that interests me, I add a post. Then I head on over to the Erogenous Zone. I don't think I'm alone when I say that the EZ is an important part of this community for me. I do wish I would see more of you over there...

I also think having more girls around would spruce up the old place. The answer is to find new girl members who enjoy porn! We now have at least one regular female contributor on the Titty Board. She has added a wonderful new dimension to the place, in my view.

I wish we had a sprinkling of all kinds of girls, although indy girls are probably the only kind that'll stick around a place like this for long.

I would not like to see the porn go bye-bye.

I wish Hal could find a way to use TPF on his resume. Hal, have you considered separating the porn from the rest of the board-- the way someone mentioned earlier?

And now I'll make my way over to the TB. See ya there!

II don't really frequent the TB much but I say in the interest of your community, keep it. I'm more of a "video" guy, not much of a "photo" guy.

The one thing that we all seem to have in common is that we're not attracting prudes to this site on the front of the sexuality forum discussion at least.

If you can't demonstrate web design skills using a site other than TFP I dunno what to say, not that I don't appreciate the solid nature of these forums but I don't find vbulletin mods to be an outstanding example of.. well, whatever you're trying to demonstrate on a resume. Perhaps I'm missing something. I don't know.

Keep it though.

Life exisists before and after porn.

I dunno. Interest in the opposite sex has gone on as long as there have been oposite sexes. Porn just organizes it.

i didnt come for the porn. i found it through a search engine, and glad i clicked on it. best site ive come across in my 12 years of being online.

i dont really care if it stays or goes. as long as if it goes, it doesnt take tfp away with it. so im neither here nor there.

bobby would be missed though...

Ive been thinking about this a bit more and all I can come up with is either way, whether the porn stays or goes make sure the decision is made for the right reason.
If you decide to keep it it should be because you want it here.
If you decide to drop the porn then do it because thats what you want to do.
Don't make a decision based on what you think the general public thinks you should do, ie, to make a resume look better, that would not be being true to yourself, living your life the way you want to. It wold be allowing others to determine how you should behave and interact with the rest of the world.
If a potential employer wont hire you because you have a website that includes pictures of people without clothes on then maybe you don't need to be working for them.
There is no shame in being naked. No shame in having sex. Without our clothes we are all naked. (maybe that one should be in the inane analogies section!)
I think the bottom line is live how you want to live, not how I or anyone else wants you to.

Keep ze pron, it iz for ze gud of ze peples zat ve keep ze pron.

As said before, a significant number of people on the board came for the sex and stayed for the discussion, a bit like a relationship We all know what happens when you take away the sex in a relationship, everyone spends too much money on cars.

I for one do not have enough money to spend on any car big enough to house an ant or bigger, so wish to keep the porn.

Or something like that.

This also seems like the ideal solution to me. A SFW_tfproject site that mirrors the original and excludes the porn. Halx puts it on his resume, Elphaba recommends it to her friends, and I can view it from work (safely). I'm entirely in favor of porn, but it isn't appropriate everywhere and for everyone.

Considering the subject matter of some of these threads, I wouldn't say that the discussion part of the site is SFW. The nekkid pics are just easier to notice at a glance.

Can I get an amen?

Like everyone, I came for the porn and stayed for the conversation. I have drifted in and out of the TFP over the years, seeing it have a rebirth three times, seeing new people come, seeing old people leave. But porn has always been on the radar as what started this community.

Is the community great without porn? Hell yes.
Are we ready to stand without it? No.

Fark is the perfect example here...

Missed this one a minute ago. Thanks for todays laugh WK!

Ooo! Ooo! It's Me! It's me!!! Do I get a cookie?

Oh... wait... dangit. I'm too obvious.

Ok- opinion on the matter at hand:
I don't look at the porn. I was shown this place by a friend, and stayed because it's a really great place to discuss women's issues, relationships, and life - and to read about people's rediculous views on politics.

Looking at the folks that responded that they came here for the porn is answer enough for me. I like them. People come for the porn, then contribute to the community.

So, I guess the question is this: How would we get the same traffic to this board, with a similar demographic of people - without the porn? Is it even possible?

If you can find some assurance that we will still have a steady influx of awesome people, then go ahead and get rid of the porn.

Is it the same user that was mentioned but never actually identified as a democratic operative in another thread?

Man these inside knowledge tidbits gnaw at my soul..being so out of the loop as I am. Mostly my own doing of course. All the alienating and disgruntledness....not to mention no more company provided internet connectivity, hardware, and the time available while managing a well oiled IT engineering crew.

None the less:

I came from fark for the porn and used it quite frequently. Grew into a mildly provocative commentor, beared my heart and soul a bit, then quit driving a desk in an office, cashed it all in, bought a small farm, a few animals, started a small consulting business, and generally have been having the time of life. Contributions and porn usage have dwindled.

Plus, aside from wayside for its curiosity factor, honestly this is not the place for cream of the crop skin chafing porn....let's be real. Far better, far more extensive, and just as reasonably priced porn is but a tappity tap tap dot com away.

If it brings in the interesting folks keep it. If i doesn't get rid of it.

I've read quite a bit in this townhall that MANY regular, popular, interesting, and thought provoking members DO NOT refer anyone here because of the porn. I've always relied heavily on referrals, for everything I've ever done successfully....and I've always been VERY weary of the referrals from the socially unacceptable.

Tough call...I've never relied on porn to build or sustain anything.

Gut says...get rid of it.

-bear

No, I just mean from style of posting, that user seems to have faded into the mist.

Looks like I'm the only one in this whole friggin place that came for the politics and stayed for the porn. l should get some kind of brownie point.

I think it shoud stay. I don't see it as "cheapening" the community in any way. A HUGE part of the TFP is sexuality, whether in the Titty Board/Wayside forums, the Tilted Exhibition Forum (something TotalMILF and I are getting our feet wet in) or the Tilted Sexuality and Ladies Forums. While porn may be a bit more base than a converstaion in Sexuality about the health benefits of orgasm, it's still a basic human desire and I see it in no way as being bad.

We're an 18+ board. Always have been and always will be. This isn't a "family" board. Kids don't come here for help with homework or to socialize. They can use Myspace or Facebook for that. It's an adult site that allows adults to talk, share and enjoy each others internet personae. Why mess that up?

Keep the porn! I like the fact that TFP is NOT a 'family-friendly' board...

I don't feel strongly one way or the other about the porn.

Although, I do think it would be cool if the site were attracting more women. I have no idea how to go about doing that, though. It certainly isn't going to be from having a crafts forum, lol.

The only observation I can make about the porn forum itself is that it seems unnecessary to have it set up like the other forums - in threads. By far most of the discussion about the content there is of the oh yeah, I'd tap that variety. Maybe if the titty board were to be set up more like a gallery...in a completely different format than the rest of the board? Of course, I wouldn't know anything about the possibilities of something like that, being pretty ignorant when it comes to these things, but it's just a thought.

MM, I don't think a gallery type setup would work well as the vast majority of posts are links to other sites with the images. It would take considerably more bandwidth and storage space on Halx' part.

As for attracting more women, it seems like there is a pretty good number of women on the board. Most of the just don't seem to post in the Ladies' Lounge much. :-p

I was doing a search on google for pron images specifically for another forum I post at, found this site like I have found thousands of others doing the same thing, started poking around and this forum actually seemed interesting so I joined and have been lurking and getting the feel of the place since.

I have visited many porn sites over the years. Never before did I feel a need to return. That was until I found this site. This appears to be an adult themed site. Politics, relationships, porn, literature, sports - this site has alot to offer. My coworkers conversations all revolve around work so I find TFP to a release.

Personally, I do not spend much time viewing the porn and have not posted there. "Nice boobs" isn't my idea of good conversation. I do, however, believe the porn draws. Without newcomers I think the conversations will gradually decrease.

Just my thoughts.

There have been a few old threads bumped to the top of late. Looking throught them there are a lot of posters that I remember but don't see posting these days. Does the vBulletin software have a way to export the data to determine the average "lifespan" of a forumer? Not that that would help with the question at hand, but it would be interesting.

That can get deceptive though...

I breeze in and out at 3-6 month intervals. Kind of like cheers, I like knowing I can come back here at any time and slip right back in where I left off. I've been "inactive" for the better part of 2007, but I know I'm not the only member that has taken an extended leave only to come back.

Now when someone has been a member for a year, and all there posts are in the titty board, that's a different story...

I came from a FARK link.

I didn't even know there was porn, exhibition, etc. until I was amazingly handed access one day because of my brilliant posts and charisma. Or something like that.

Just so you know that not ALL traffic initially comes for the porn. :)

I came for the porn, and I stay for the porn. I'm a medical student, and my life is pretty hectic. I don't have a lot of time to contribute. I mostly just come and look at the porn. Occasionally I flip through the boards and read some threads. I've read some interesting things. This might be the first time I've actually responded outside the TB, I'm not sure...

There's a chance that some day I will have more free time. Will I feel compelled to contribute to the community in a significant way at that point? I'm not sure. It's possible. But in the meantime, I enjoy coming here and seeing porn, and occasionally flipping through other threads and killing some time when I have it.

As a non-contributing TB lurker, do my opinions count. I honestly hope not. Is honesty really the best policy? I apparently think so.

I'm a newb here, but my opinion would be to keep the porn. Every site has a porn section. If you do away with it, many regular viewers will just just find another site to go to. Who cares if they don't post

That's an interesting question. On the one hand, since we don't make money from ads, clicks, or page-views, people that don't post don't exist. So, if we have a feature that attracts non-posting people, it doesn't do much for us.

On the other hand, you never know where you'll get your referrals from. I bet more than one outstanding poster was referred here by a friend who was mostly a lurker.

It's worth thinking about.

My experience at TFP is that "content" is not well received. In fact it is discouraged. Providing "content" is a function of passion. If you don't have it, you don't understand how to moderate it.

I was not attracted to this site by "the porn". After I was here, I came to appreciate it.

If you are serious about wanting or encouraging "content", discourage "drive by" "one liners" from being posted in select threads. My experience is that you've been doing the opposite.

To your credit, you have not banned me.

My advice is to examine posting activity that it is unique, out of the ordinary, and encourage the authors of it when you identify it. If you are not familiar enough with a forum category to do so, solicit opinions inside and outside the circle of moderators to attempt to make an accurate and informed decision as possible about what to encourage or discourage and on what forum topics or "cultures" to do it, or not do it.

When you come across unique posting style or content, and it is found to generate controversial reactions, do you react to complaints about it by looking for posts of members who seem appreciative of it, and ask them what it is that they appreciate, or do you simply consider the complaints to be the definitive signs of "a problem"?

My experience is that moderation pressures in the direction of brevity and uniformity.

Unique or unusual is going to be controversial. It is a product of passion and it summons passion from others, both pro and con.

A "general discussion" forum should have different posting guidelines than those in a "themed" forum. In a themed forum where it can easily be expected that passions will rise, why is the tendency to attempt to moderate passionate expression more aggressively than in a comparatively passionless, general discussion venue?

Whatever approach that you decide to take with any policy issue or strategy, sincerely evaluate what you think might happen if you do the opposite of what your inclined to do. If you think that eliminating porn from TFP or making it more difficult for the public who are non or recent members to access, will diminish activity, why not eliminate or further restrict it for a bit, to find out what happens.

Why not take different or opposite practices in other areas in attempts to find if your stifling or discouraging activity and content creation that it would be better to encourage, and vice-versa. I've seen no effort, comparatively to discourage "one line" posts in forums where that activity is not optimum, but plenty of effort devoted to discouraging the loooong post.

If you genuinely want "content", on some forums, you could be demanding it, but instead the priority seems to be to encourage "discussion". We already live in a text message society. There is not much "content" in "texting", is there?

I came here from FARK for the porn, but ended up liking the discussion groups. There is nothing wrong with either side because I think both sides are what makes the TFP the TFP. To be honest - this is the place where I can come and vent and people will give me honest and real advice so I'd rather it not go away.

Perhaps if you just created a limited guest type account for employers to view the site sans porn so you could plop that on the ol' resume.

What's it take to keep this place going anyway? I came from being a poor college student (finding this place) and then now I'm a wealthy business owner who's semi-retired at an early age. I would teach you the tricks of the trade that I've learned for FREE if it helps keeping this place up and running.

Something that would be interesting though - is if anyone here has a blog, it'd be interesting to post up a BLOG thread and perhaps everyone who has a blog can link back to TFP in exchange for a listing on the BLOG thread if you wanted to increase traffic. Otherwise, look up that Search Engine Optimization site: Thirty Day Challenge. You've got enough people here to make TFP self sustainable.