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Why are we fat?
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MAYBE WE'RE TOO STRESSED click to show MAYBE A VIRUS IS TO BLAME click to show MAYBE THE TEMPERATURE IS JUST RIGHT click to show MAYBE IT'S ALL THAT HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP click to show MAYBE LOW-FAT FOODS MADE US EAT MORE click to show MAYBE WE TAKE TOO MANY DRUGS click to show Theory series experts: who they are click to show This is an interesting series I read in LA Times. I have a bit of difficulty with it since it points to many factors, but leaves out a critical one, "Maybe We Don't Excercise Enough" which I believe makes this whole series moot since it's a good feature of the change of our lifestyles. There is another factor that is not listed here which is portion distortion, "Maybe We Don't Know How Much We're Supposed To Eat" I do find that HSFC and low fat foods make me less satisfied than whole fat and natural sugared items. It is a personal belief that because I'm not as satisfied I tend to eat more of it, which in turn equals more calories. In the years that I gave up smoking, I didn't increase weight at all. After giving up drinking, I've gained 20lbs. in the past 2 years. What do you believe makes us fat? Vote for as many or all that you believe are contributing factors. |
Certainly, because most people don't exercise enough.
The average overweight person rarely exercises or works to the point where their heartrate is sufficiently elevated for any period of time. Many people also overeat in comparison to their energy expenditure. |
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As much as I'd love to say the smoking one, I agree with highthief. People need to pay attention during high school biology (or was it Chemistry? Fuck if I remember..).
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Culturally Americans have made ourselves fat. I see several factors since my childhood that have changed the way we eat and entertain ourselves. In fact there are times I think that we make eating part of our entertainment. We have largely seemed to have moved toward an easier and less healthy lifestyle choice. And it is a lifestyle choice with the key point being choice.
Dinner and a movie, dinner and a concert, dinner and a show are common among a great many of us. We combine a meal with too large of portions with an activity that is pretty much sedentary. Our consumption of easy to purchase, easy to prepare food and our failure to observe portion control along with a regular exercises program is far more likely the cause than any of the poll options. Recently, my wife and I purchased two bicycles and we have been riding every evening instead of eating dinner and watching TV or surfing the Internet. In one week, we have lost weight, spent more quality time together and and have started to increase our overall health and happiness. |
There's no option for "weeat too much and move about too little", but that's what I pick.
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There IS a definitive answer: sedentary lifestyle combined with poor diet is responsible. People try to make it more complicated by suggesting it's anything from "glandular" to "big boned", but the reality is that people are lazy and eat rubbish. Once we stop being lazy and eating rubbish, we'll be healthier.
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It's really very simple for most. They eat too much BAD food and they don't get enough exercise. BTW, I did not vote because there is no "None of the Above" answer and I refuse to submit an answer since I don't agree with any of them. They all may be contributing factors to certain types of obesity ... but not one of them answer the question: "Why are WE fat?" |
None of those options fit my thoughts on why people are fat. For me I simply see it as most overweight people take in more calories than they burn. I know that some people are not able to control there weight easily due to other issues but for most it is simply no physical activity coupled with a side of fries.
The funny thing for me is that growing up I was the opposite. So skinny and could not put any weight on. I worked out, tried to eat my mom out of house and home and never put any weight on (for sports). I hated being called skinny, bone rack....etc then all of sudden around the age of 25 my metabolism changed and I shot up to a max of 235lbs (6ft tall). I loved it! I remember going home after being away for a while and my mom telling me I looked chunky! I worked hard for that weight! Only lasted for a year maybe and now i sit anywhere from 175-195lbs depending on time of year and training. Too keep on topic, I think that quality of food and easy availability of high fat foods acts as a huge accelerator coupled with no physical activity. |
[X] Calories in > Calories out
All others are in there simply corrolations masked as convenient excuses. |
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If I eat 2500 calories a day in McDonands and burn 2500 calories a day for a week, what would the result be? If I eat 2500 calories a day in low carb fruits and veggies, lean meats, and nuts, and burn 2500 calories a day for a week, what would the result be? |
The answer: maybe we are making too many excuses for ourselves
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Maybe you're a lazy fuck that sits on his/her ass all day watching shitty TV while shoveling food in your mouth?
Maybe you have low self-esteem and you don't care what you look like. Maybe you think being fat is cool cause it's not trendy. Maybe someone lied to you about how you really look. Maybe we're American and that's how we like everything... BIG! |
Will
Mrs Dlish is an APD practicing dietitian. i asked her about your scenario about the 2500 calories example you put forward. her initial response was "what weighs more, a kilo of bricks or a kilo of feathers"? having 2500 calories of one things vs 2500 calories of another, there is no difference. she also said this is not to encourage people to eat McDonald's though due to higher risks in heart disease and diabetes due to refined carbs and high saturated fat content. she said that that the diet you referred to is the preferred one, because it fruits and veggies contained low calories generally, nuts are a good source of good fats but at the end of the day nuts can still make you put on weight |
We don't eat enough fiber, we eat too many refined sugars and processed foods, and we don't move our asses enough. It's pretty simple, and so is the solution. Unfortunately, most people are lazy--they want there to be some kind of magic trick to weight loss, some easy way out, and there isn't.
Eat more fiber (whole grains, fruits, veggies, beans), cut out processed foods and refined sugars, and exercise--all of these things increase health and quality of life. |
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Maybe we're not all having enough vigorous sex?
There are quite a few portly individuals I know, and most don't give a shit. They're fat and damned proud of it! One, in particular, has to run home in the middle of the work day, several times a year, because he's busted a seam in his trousers. Yet, every day, he eats the same breakfast, lunch, and presumably, dinner. The only time he exerts himself is at quitting time, when he rushes out the door to hurry home, slug down a few beers, and surf porn on the web. There were a few weeks, many years ago, when he started taking walks during his lunch break. Those ended with one of the first rainy afternoons. On the flip side, I have a friend who, at way over 300 lbs, had an epiphany. About a year and a half ago, he made some changes in his lifestyle, his diet, his exercise patterns. He's dropped over 100 pounds and looks and feels 1000% better. He's found new energy, found a great girlfriend, found more rewarding job (so far), and seems to be enjoying life a lot more. He's a lot more relaxed and happy sounding in conversation. I almost didn't recognize him when he called me the other day. He's still a large person, always will be. But he's added a lot to his life since he subtracted a lot from his body. That explains my take on this subject. With the exception of the relative few who suffer from glandular irregularities or other health issues that can lead to obesity, I believe that most fat people choose to be fat, or choose to not do what it takes to no longer be fat. If that makes me a fat bigot, so be it. I don't love my overweight friends any less because of their size. I just don't buy into any excuses. The ones that are my friends don't try to sell any. In answer to the poll: *all of the above, plus a whole bunch more. Where's the choice for "It's way too hard NOT to be fat?" |
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2500 calories a day on McDonalds? Morgan Spurlock gained 24 lbs. in less than 30 days in "Supersize Me", and he was exercising regularly during the shooting (when he wasn't vomiting). His BMI rose 4 points. In a given day, he had a sausage mcmuffin (~370c), hash (150c), 2 hamburgers (500c), small fries (230c), a small coke (150c), and a double quarter pounder (740c), medium fries (380c), and a medium diet coke (0c). That's almost exactly 2500c. Compare a diet like that to a 2500c healthy diet like mine. Yesterday I had: 2 cups oatmeal (300c) + 1 cup 2% milk (120c) + about 1 oz. of almonds (126c) + 1 scoop whey protein powder (110c) + a grapefruit (75c), fillet of Atlantic cod (189c) + a few spears broccoli (maybe 20c), Orange Berry Blitz Jamba Juice (540c), chicken florentine (500ish?) + 1 glass of pinot grigio (114c) + 1 cup of vanilla ice cream (200c). That's about 2300c. On my diet, with regular exercise, one could be in great shape. Actually, one IS in great shape. |
u freak me out sometimes will..
and you write all this down in a diary for what reason? or do u do this just for fun? you'd freak me out even more if you told me you remembered all that info from the top of your head including the calories consumed.. |
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But my point stands. Calorie quality is equally important to calorie intake in determining health. Calories from delicious broccoli are always going to be better than calories from processed sugars and corn syrups in soda. |
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According the this, he ate 5000 calories a day and did not exercise. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Size_Me Quote:
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Even I don't eat 5,000 calories a day (usually).
The problem with the Big Mac diet either way is that it lacks essential nutrients and other things such as fibre, healthy fats, and phytonutrients. Calories are not all equal due to what they each carry or don't carry. Your body fat isn't just about burning calories; it's also about enabling your body to do the work it needs as efficiently as possible. At least when you're looking at dietary factors. |
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If people actually did something about their weight, there wouldn't be half as many fat people as there are now.
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One of the possible other choices: Maybe we lack self-discipline, exercise poor judgment, and we just eat too much.
... perhaps sub-consciously (or fully-knowing) passing these habits along on to our children, their children, and on. The impact has been gradually cumulative. I think the majority of people know they over-eat or consume foods of questionable nutrition. I think there's an addictive angle related to fast-food or junk-food. |
aunt phil and i have talked about this type of thing on a few occasions; we believe that clothing should be banned...
let people go wherever they have to go in the altogether... think that would be an incentive? (the visuals could be disastrous...) |
I agree for the most part on the calorie and lifestyle choices
mentioned above. Did anyone see the recent 60 minutes episode, linking chronic sleep deprivation and obesity? That study seemed accurate to some extent. I would like to see more information. |
The cortisol/sleep/fat issue is of interest to me. I'm glad to see more studies are being done.
Chronic deep deprivation isn't the only issue; so is chronic stress. Compound the two, and bammo, you've accumulated more fat than you would have otherwise. |
when i used to weigh about 300 pounds more than i do now, i drank alot and ate processed foods and didn't exercise much because it was a kind of circle. i cut out most drinking and all processed foods at the same time, so i don't know which was to blame, really. when i began drinking once in a while again, i had also started biking, so i still don't know. but processed foods seem to me the main culprit, somehow.
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Look no one here is saying 2000 calorie McMack diet is as healthy as a 2000 calorie balanced diet. Nutrients/fiber/etc are required aspects of our activities, however fat deposits occur only when there is more energy consumed than is required. It is then stored by the body as we have evolved.
Excess fat only occurs when there is a difference between calories consumed vs. burned. It could be 10calories per day, it could be 1000. The simple fact of the matter is a calorie is a measurement of energy. If buy 10gallons of gas for your car a day, and use 8... you'll need a place to store said gas, carrying it around with you. It matters not if you buy supreme or regular to this equation. Sure supreme works better for engines designed for it, but the type entered in does not change the equation before and after the calculation. Now of course you'll want to follow up with quality of gas, state of the engine, any water in the gas, et al. You fail to realize that does not matter in the statement of the equation. You can get 100mpg or 1, hell there could be a leak in tank, it doesn't matter. If you buy 10gallons, use 8, you'll have some left over. Fat is much the same. |
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Over the course of almost two years, I've lost 60 lbs without going on a "diet." Hell, I've lost 40 lbs of it without going to the gym or even exercising more. Hell, exercising AT ALL. I don't exercise. I used to, but I stopped going when I noticed I still lost weight when I ate less. Sitting at my cubicle all day, I burn around 1500 calories per day by regular body functions. If I eat more than 1500 calories, I gain weight. You can even eat fucking McDonald's every single day if you want, just don't eat more than 1500 calories. You'll have horrible cholesterol and other life-threatening side effects, but you won't be overweight. I went on what I call the "Lasereth Way of Living." He showed me the way and it worked absolutely perfectly. Breakfast: nothing. Lunch: Michelina's microwave meal, not to exceed 300 calories. One meal is usually between 190-350 calories. Dinner: Anything, but do not exceed 800-900 calories. I dropped weight to the point of people thinking I got gastric bypass surgery, and the last half of my weight loss included going to the gym NONE! The average person isn't ready to handle the fact that you are going to have to go to one of two extremes to lose weight: hit the gym for an hour every single day, or eat less and starve your body so it uses your stored fat :thumbsup: And before everyone jumps on me for losing weight "the unhealthy way," I would rather lose weight the unhealthy way than go to the gym every single day and see minute results. And believe it or not, I have excellent blood pressure, cholesterol, and muscle mass! |
Skipping breakfast? Oy vey. Numerous studies clearly demonstrate that people who skip breakfast are more likely to be obese. Why? YOU NEED FOOD. You've been burning food all night and your tanks are on empty. If you skip breakfast you're more likely to snack in the morning.
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But we're not cars, see? I'll go back to the nutrients, etc. When you don't eat a balanced diet, your body doesn't have the materials it needs to operate normally (or optimally).
You'd have to look at it this way to be a bit more accurate:
Which car would run better on the same amount of gas? Which car would get further? |
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You both need to read my post IN FULL.
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Energy in vs. Energy out. |
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The problem is jr. high dietary science is circulated a lot. BTW, you will not burn the same amount of calories running a mile vs. walking a mile either. And storks don't supply infants. |
You burn calories differently depending on what you eat. This means 100 calories of crap burn at a different rate than 100 calories of the good stuff. Yes, burning 100 calories is 100 calories burnt regardless of the food source, but metabolism works 24-hours a day. Your body cannot adequately operate on a McDiet, so those calories would mess up your system, including your metabolism. This is why it isn't as simple as energy in vs. energy out.
You'd have a really hard time burning through 2,500 daily calories of McFood vs. burning through 2,500 calories of WillravelFood. Metabolism is a complex mechanism. |
I'm guessing that there has been very little calories consumed in the typing of all these silly assed arguments
It is interesting that people's desire to be right about everything spills over into a simple observation of what is creating a serious health issue in the fat, happy and sassy parts of the world. It is safe I think to assume that 3500 calories from the consumption of donuts and potato chips is likely not as good for someone as a balanced diet of 3500 calories is. But in the end, we need to get out from behind the computers, away from the front of the TV and start doing something to change things. |
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- eat too much - eat too late - eat processed foods - eat to few fruits and veggies - eat HFCS and partially-hydrogenated foods - eat too little fiber |
You are missing the obvious answer. To much time trolling the internet (and forums) and not enough in the gym.
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Oh, and that you can't spell "hightheif". PS: You don't get better mileage on higher octane fuel. You may get a tiny bit more horsepower, you may have a vehicle for which 93 octane is recommended rather than 89 or 87, but generally no more fuel efficiency. Another faulty bit of reasoning on your part. |
(ok little threadjack - if you try to view the poll before you vote, the names of who voted for what appears below the choice....weird! /threadjack)
I think there should be more options on the poll. One important one for me would be: Maybe there is too much variety of everything these days and it's hard to switch off One of the choices, the stress one, hints at something but not quite - we haven't got enough time to sit down properly for a meal a lot of the time, or to cook one. We work longer hours and have less time to do things at a more relaxed pace. Consequently we cook healthy food less, there is way too much take-out, and we don't even have time to eat slowly so our brains know we're full. |
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So which Wiki is right? It says the same thing about 1.5 miles in the movie. Wiki has never been and will never be a credible source. Go watch the movie if you want that. Quote:
Regardless of your incorrect points above, the argument in question (all calories are burned equal) is still bogus. That's the bottom line. People need to understand that if they're thinking about changing their lifestyle to be more healthy. Eat right—lower carb fruits and veggies, lean meats, nuts, and the occasional dairy—, and exercise—at least 30 minutes of cardio every day, though hitting the gym is best. That's the whole story. |
We have no idea of what the word diet is.
We over eat. We dont sleep enough. We have NO PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY! Gladly I am able to say I am not anywhere even near fat. I am nicely where I should be and in good physical shape. Fat is an excuse for most. Just eat right, exercise (yes make time damnit, you're life > work.) and sleep well. If most people did that the only fatties left would be the extreme rare cases where its medical related or other non-standard stuff. Quote:
Most newer cars make no difference with the higher octanes. And I mean its so marginal its not worth the extra cost what so ever. Cars today are built MUCH more efficient than those older models (90's earlier). They are specifically built for the 87 octane and do not require anything higher to perform as they are built for. I suggest researching that one a bit, otherwise keep on the good work you typically do. |
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I actually am absolutely starving if I DO eat breakfast, it catalyzes my appetite to the point of ordering a pizza at 9:30 AM. If I skip breakfast, I just feel normal, and get hungry around 11:00 AM. And everyone saying all this crap about "what you eat depends on how much weight you lose! 87 octane is more efficient etc.!!!!!!!!!!!!" Yeah, there is healthy food and there's bad food, and some calories are burned easier and more efficient, but the bottom line is: if you eat more than you burn you are fucked. I can prove it because I ate like I was Father Nutrition himself for 4 months, very strict diet of fruits and veggies and lean meats and poultry, and went to the gym EVERY SINGLE DAY for one hour, and lost 5 lbs. My cholesterol improved more than my dietition had every seen in 4 months, my blood pressure got slightly better. Then I just started eating less, WAY less, and being less strict on what I ate - and lost the remaining 55 lbs nearly without going to the gym at all. McDonald's versus fruit, your choice, but at the end of the day, you can eat fruit and veggies and healthy all day and gain weight. My parents are constantly complaining about being overweight even though they are "eating right" as I watch them pile on 2000 calories of vegetables and lean meat onto their plates at dinner. In order to lose weight fast, you have to starve yourself. You got into the mess of being fat, now get yourself out - stop eating. Once you are down to your correct weight, feel free to eat breakfast, lunch and dinner and have a well-balanced diet. But until then, reduce the calories you eat so your body burns the excess fat - doesn't matter what you eat, just stop eating. I apologize for being so blunt and slightly overzealous with this argument but I am trying to stand up for all the people who have been fed bullshit about losing weight for years, just like me. The key to losing weight is to burn more than you use, and it's extremely difficult to burn the average consumption of a normal person - that's why most people maintain, but don't lose weight, even if they exercise. |
Once you're down to your ideal weight and you start eating a normal amount again you're going to gain weight. This is because the human body has been naturally selected to compensate for a situation where it thinks your food supply has suddenly been limited. Your body adjusts and when you go back to normal mode it's still in starvation mode. This is why under-eating is not a weight loss technique that's recommended by most dietitians. It's not bullshit, it's reality.
If you want to lose weight fast, chop off your arm. Losing weight fast almost always means you're not doing it in a healthy way. If you want to lose weight correctly, consult a dietitian and a personal trainer so they can provide you with tested and proven methods. |
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What were you eating for breakfast? I thought I was bad eating a ton for breakfast and then eying the clock at 10:30, waiting for 11:00 to roll around so I can tear into my first lunch. But ordering pizza at 9:30 after breakfast? Look, there are many ways to lose weight, but the way to do so healthily and over the long term is to eat breakfast and understand that doing so will fire up your metabolism. That's they way your body works, so figure it out. If you want to fast for over 16 hours each and every day, then fine. But I'm more or less responding to you for the benefit of the thread and other readers. That and maybe because you don't quite understand how fasting and metabolism works. Any nutritionist/dietitian/GP worth their weight will tell you the same thing. |
There seems to be some mildly amusing - albeit tiresome - internet chest puffing going on in this thread.
Please stop so we don't have to lock this thread and send some passive aggressive PMs to some of you. |
I vote for "maybe we're too lazy?"
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Coke, Pepsi, Dr. Pepper, Mountain Dew, Sprite, A&W Root Beer, etc.
Take a fat kid, cut ALL soft drinks out of his diet and watch him slim down, even if no other diet/exercise changes are made. |
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I've heard horror stories of what kids are bringing in their lunches these days. Lunches? Well, sometimes they're way cooler: they're Lunchables. |
Refined Carbs, and shit lots of them, combined with less and less exercise. And beer.
Read a book called 'The Diet Delusion' by Gary Taubes. It completly changed the way i think about the modern diet and all the ailments that accompany it. |
I, like many of you, just could not vote. None of the choices were my response, they seemed more like excuses,but I think that was the point.
Anyway, in my own life I know I cannot lose weight without exercise. Period. I cannot maintain a healthy weight without some sort of exercise/activity in my life. I eat pretty well all the time, I love most healthy foods and enjoy cooking, and found found ways to cook healthy foods quickly. However, I can not resist candy, cookies, and cake, I don't buy them often but sometimes I am exposed to them and find resisting impossible. But my daily activities and exercises keep my body in check. BTW, I am still loosing weight after my second baby and I am doing it the healthily way so it takes awhile, but I see steady decreases in my weight and increases in my health. (Unfortunately I was on bed rest for both of my pregnancies, and craved junk food so I did not get to maintain my healthy eating or my exercising which caused more weight gain and harder weight loss than I wanted.) But after the second and final baby I am back to eating well and exercising. Some people think that all exercise has to be running on a treadmill at a gym, that is not true. Exercise can be taking the kids to the zoo. Walking briskly around the mall "window shopping", swimming with the family, taking walks in the park, running around the backyard with the kids, walking to the bars, walking to the bus stop, walking to work, walking the dog, walking on your smoke break (hubby does that, I'm a recovered smoker), walking up and down the stairs caring loads of laundry, and so much more. I am one of those weirdos that loves going to the gym, but I don't always make it there because of childcare issues, yet there are tons of things I can do that I also enjoy that give me my needed exercise/activity level. I am not a lazy person, IMO, I do spend a lot of time on the computer for work, and I work at home, but I am still quite active. Let's think back to the beginning of time, human beings evolved to walk upright and walk all over the place. Are we fat because we have cars? No, I am just saying our bodies were made for walking, plain and simple it is in our genetics. IMO if we don't move our bodies like they were made to be moved we will suffer the consequences ie. be overweight. Congrats to anyone who can loose weight without exercise, :bowdown: I know I can't. |
I think another VERY significant contributor to obesity in humans is the way we eat.
First, most people eat way too fast, which tends to lead to over-eating. I read or heard once that the brain doesn't receive the "I'm full" message from the belly for about 20 minutes after the belly has actually gotten sufficiently full. If you continue to eat during this period, you'll over-eat and then feel "stuffed". (I don't know if there's any scientific merit to this notion, but it does jibe with my own experiences.) The solution to this problem is to slow down and enjoy your meal. You'll eat less and be less likely to feel uncomfortably full. Another problem is the whole idea of the 3 square meals per day. I got to thinking about this while out deer hunting one time. I was thinking about obesity and wondered why, even in a food-rich environment, you never see wild animals that are fat (hibernating animals such as bear excepted, of course). And it occurred to me that, aside from the fact that most animals get way more exercise than most humans, there is a noticeable difference between how animals and humans eat. Unless they are sleeping or rutting, animals are ALWAYS eating. But they're just grazing. A little here, a little there, usually with some walking (and scanning the area for danger) in between. You almost never see a deer, or other animal, gorge himself the way humans do on a regular basis. So, if you really want to eat in a healthier way, consider looking to nature for your example. Now granted, deer (the source of inspiration for my thoughts) have different nutritional needs than humans. But there are plenty of animals that are omnivores like we are. Many of the primate species (baboons come to mind) eat both meat and plant matter and would likely serve as an excellent model for the human diet. When in doubt, look to nature. |
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Woah, there are people who only eat three meals a day?
I'd go nuts on only three.... |
Simple: it's the wussification of America. People are no longer responsible or accountable to themselves. It's always someone else's fault. I notice there is no option in the poll for: Too much caloric input not enough caloric output.
We eat too much and don't exercise enough. That's it. |
It comes down to eating and exercise/active lifestyles. It is also a lot easier to maintain a healthy weight if you eat good food instead of fast food growing up. Losing weight takes more effort than staying the same 'good' weight.
But, temperature is something that I think could be a minor factor. I know I eat less in the hot summer than I do in the winter. I drink more water in the summer though. |
Maybe we should stop asking a hypothetical why, and just start taking some personal responsibility for our weight issues.
Around here in SoCal suburbia, it's either you eat too little, enjoy working out, or you're obese. There are few in between. It would be interesting to see the statistics that would come out of obesity in our next census. |
I think what gets lost in this debate is the systemic causes, things like the way our neighborhoods and communities are structured, the way our food is priced and subsidized, the way our days are structured, the discontinuation of phys ed classes, etc. All subtle things that drive personal choices in a particular direction. This doesn't absolve people, but screaming about fat lazy people with no discipline doesn't make a difference. There are neighborhood and community effects on obesity - i.e., if you live in a particular community you're more likely to be obese because of factors in that community, like access to healthy food (how far is the local supermarket vs. the corner convenience store stocked with processed food?) Are there sidewalks and parks available?
How do you make PUBLIC POLICY choices that drive personal choices one way or another? How about making healthy calories cheaper and more available? Subsidizing local farmers markets? Adding sidewalks and bike lanes to neighborhoods? How about rewarding being at a healthy BMI by lowering insurance premiums? If you're serious about making a difference on a large scale (no pun intended) then the discussion has to continue past blaming the individual. The answer is OBVIOUSLY individual behavior, but how do you shape that behavior at the societal level? |
I think it's 75% eating too much and 25% not exercising. Many people believe it's flip flopped but in reality it's what you eat that causes your fatness.
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We are growing fat for the fall harvest.
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I'm not so sure that we should be trying to shape individual behavior through public policy. I don't believe that the Nanny State idea is a good one. "That government is best which governs the least." - Thomas Jefferson |
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You never fail to make me laugh GH. |
We're fat, because despite trying to eat healthy and maintain a healthy lifestyle, we acquire girlfriends whose mothers and stepmothers find the need to cook horrendously unhealthy, mouthwateringly delicious meals for lunch and dinner, and then practically force feed them to us.
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I have lost almost 50lbs in the last year by doing virtually nothing but changing what and how much I eat. I still don't eat extremely healthy, but I did cut waaaaay back on soft drinks, and fast food. We recently joined the YMCA as a family and I'm doing about 15 min. of Cardio, about 1/2 an hour of weight machines and about an hour of swimming/ playing in the pool a couple times per week, but nothing too intense.
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There is/was this TV show on TLC or Discovery Health or something that took a family with kids that were heavy for their age and then showed them what they would look like at age 40 if they continued to eat what they ate and not be physically active. They were able to change their lives after that because they realize what would happen to them. But day by day, you don't see weight changes that much and certain food tastes better, is cheaper or is the only thing available. Or maybe it is because my parents acted as my 'nanny state' and said, if you eat all that sugar and sweets you will end up looking like that fat man over there when you are 30. If you eat healthy food you can look like that one. |
You can not legislate stupidity, or stupid behavior, away.
Btw, there is a HUGE difference between parenting and governing. |
What happened to people taking personal responsibility and accountability for themselves? People need to take charge of their own lives and not rely on government to bail them out. Time to pull yourselves by the bootstraps people.
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I am guessing that we are fat because we dont take enough drugs, smoke enough cigarettes, the weather is too cold, and we eat far to many carrotts, and jog.
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Allright, all you "nanny-state" naysayers....what's your solution? Besides "people ought to take responsibility" Blah blah blah. That's a very nice prescription...so how do you make it happen? |
The President's Council on Fitness is now giving out those patches to adults. Maybe that'll turn things around.
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One thing I didn't see mentioned here is that
calorie in vs calorie out is NOT the same as calorie in vs. calorie used Just like Will and others stated, type of food has a huge impact. calorie in vs calorie out is more accurately(though still quite simplified) calorie in vs calorie spent + calorie excreted + calorie stored Certain types of foods break down at different rates at different times in the digestive system. Some are completely wasted out. Some take more calories to digest than they provide, like carrots and celery I believe. etc. Bottom line, it isn't as simple as some suggest. -----Added 23/7/2008 at 10 : 56 : 03----- Quote:
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I'd like to speak in specifics at this point.
Another reason why we're fat is because too many people only drink things like green tea only after it's been ruined by soft drink companies. Another reason is because we no longer look at food and its preparation as a spiritual or pleasurable experience; we look at it as a chore, and so we look for convenience. Another reason is because we don't understand cause and effect over a certain period of time. Immediate gratification is best understood, and as each second passes beyond that, it's as though the effect is shot into outer space. Another reason is because we would rather pay for something rather than do it or make it ourselves. Another reason is because we don't understand food. Adding fibre to a milkshake doesn't make it good for you. Another reason is because we've adjusted our tastes to prefer what's bad for us, and we've pushed the good food out of our realm of what we find pleasurable. As an example, I used to put salt and fat on everything; now I prefer things such as vegetables with herbs, if not "au naturel." |
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You don't. People will either take responsibility for themselves or they won't. But as long as government is there to bail them out every time they fuck up...most people aren't likely to change their stupid ways. |
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Lurky, Incentives might help. Higher rates and taxes for unhealthy people because they refuse to become healthy and are a drain on the health care system. EX: Higher taxes and rates for smokers, fat people etc. Education on health and nutrition is also a good idea. Other than that, it's just good ol' fashioned will power and discipline. |
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You'd have to tax based on doctor's reports because there are many people who are otherwise healthy looking who have hearts that are ticking time bombs due to dietary choices and lack of exercise. There are "fat" people who almost never go to the doctor's and are otherwise healthy. Much of this is genetics, so I see a problem with such a system of "incentives." How far would we have to go to ensure it's "fair"? |
Fair questions Baraka. But for me, it's a starting point or at the very least, a discussion worth having. You could merge this with some sort of basic national health care program.
The main problem as you suggest is the establishment of standards. I would assume, basic rule of thumbs would be a place to begin. EX: Healthy range for blood pressure is 120/80, BMI ranges, cholesterol etc. Smokers should be treated the same in my opinion because it affects everyone. |
I think what lurkette was really getting at is that the economics of commodities in this country subsidized by the Farm Bill mean that less healthy calories are cheaper for people to buy and consume. Time-wise, these cheaper calories are also easier to procure. In parts of this country, especially in inner cities, it is hard to find affordable produce. NYC has done a great job of addressing this issue with the introduction of greenmarkets, and other places have as well; here, our farmers' market takes food stamps. However, a lot of markets aren't set up for that sort of thing, and furthermore, for the poor and already overweight, getting to a farmer's market over a grocery store nearby is not really feasible, especially if one has put in an 8-hour+ day. Is a poor person with a weight problem really going to put in the time and effort it takes to eat healthily (shopping at the farmer's market, spending $20+ a week on fresh produce, finding ways to cook said produce, prepping and cooking said produce) or are they going to go for the cheap box of macaroni and cheese that takes 20 minutes to prepare from start to finish? It does take a great deal of effort to buy, prep, and cook fresh food--even Rachael Ray takes a lot of short cuts in her 30 Minute Meals, and many of them are completely unreasonable if you're on any sort of budget.
Yes, a head of romaine lettuce is 99 cents here, but I know it's not the same price elsewhere, and it's certainly more expensive to purchase the romaine that's pre-washed and cut. We can insist all we want about personal willpower and responsibility, but the fact is that the economics of food in this country set people up to fail, depending on where they live. |
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These things go hand in hand. You have to be disciplined and help yourself. At the same time, the infrastructure (grocery stores, healthy lunch menus) need to be in place as well. |
Because we're lazy.
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Shesus and I found that eating most of our food from the produce section not only keeps us healthier, but it cut our monthly food bill drastically. Buying healthy, fresh food is actually cheaper than buying the processed food. Only, you can't microwave a salad. You actually have to make it. Well, even now there are pre-tossed salads in a bag. Aside from the afore-mentioned maladies that cause obesity, in today's society, I think it actually takes more effort to eat a lousy diet than it does to eat healthy. Now, on an entirely different front. People with eating addictions aren't going to get a damn bit of help simply by changing what they eat. They need to find the root of their addiction and deal with that, otherwise they will never get past the fact that their overeating is an addiction, not a conscious choice. There are people who do exercise, but eat so goddamn much it nullifies any benefit exercising gives them. |
JJ, there are some places 9neighborhoods) that don't have grocery stores period. Hence, no produce.
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Here's one of the things that doesn't get talked about very much in the US. The average household spends roughly 9% of household income on food. This compares to 11% in the United Kingdom, 16% in France, 17% in Japan, 27% in South Africa and 53% in India. (These are numbers form 2004).
The US is able to do this largely because of the issues that onesnowyowl has raised around the Farm Bill and subsidies. The subsidies have produced a glut of produce such as corn and soy beans. This is not the corn of "corn on the cob" this is industrial corn and soy beans that are used as a supply of food for vast, industrialized cattle feedlots and the building blocks of processed foods. I have read somewhere that if you need 1500 calories a day to survive and you were to buy 1500 calories of fresh food vs. 1500 of processed foods you would spend approximately $1.50 on the processed and $4.00 on the fresh. (caveat... I am doing this from memory so the numbers might be off a bit, the point is the divide between the expense of fresh vs. processed). Processed foods are less healthy. The Farm Bill is about creating large quantities of cheap food and the US has been very successful at doing just this since the early 70s when the Nixon Administration made this a priority and altered the existing policy. One thing of note: I wonder how the drive to use the surplus corn for ethanol will effect food prices. Wait... Secret report: biofuel caused food crisis. It looks like it already has. |
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This is an interesting article that addresses some of these issues: eMJA: Obesity, law and personal responsibility Some highlights: "Personal choice will be influenced by the environment in which people are making that choice. 'People are more likely to exercise personal responsibility if they’re not expected to swim against a current of advertising and promotion.' " and "A spurious dichotomy: Despite all the controversy, personal responsibility and the wider community response are not on opposite sides of the fence, says Chris Reynolds. 'These two ideas are inextricably linked. One is necessarily supported and sustained by the other. The community must create the environment that maximises the potential for people to make healthy choices.' And Magnusson’s answer to that question from the floor about how the law can help reframe this debate? 'We can turn it around and say that, if we really want to deliver on autonomy or individualism, we need to introduce legislation that allows people full freedom of choice.' " This is a public health issue - it costs all of us billions of dollars. And it's not SOLELY the result of individual action...you can't separate people from the context in which they live. If you want to look at it as an issue of fairness, you're not asking people living in different circumstances to make the same choices. Healthy choices can cost more in time, distance, and money for those who live in communities where those choices are not planned for or incidentally convenient. If you want the situation to actually change, you have to admit that there is a utilitarian value in changing that context to enable or encourage choices that make people healthier and cost us all less money. |
How would you explain lower rates of obesity in poorer countries than the US where people also do not have the convenience of healthy eating/lifestyle?
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Adjust accordingly.
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I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it. |
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I was surprised to find that Wikipedia actually now has an entry for the term "food desert": Food desert - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The NYTimes search feature is still in beta so I had a bear of a time finding this article to share, so I hope you read it; I think it explains a lot in regards to just how the farm bill impacts how people in the United States of America eat: Food - Supermarkets - Obesity - Nutrition - Calories - Farmers - Agriculture - New York Times Quote:
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Maybe it's because we eat too much and don't move around enough (he said while drinking a coke and nibbling a pretzel in his chair in front of his computer....)
There is no other reason. The rest is all wishful thinking. |
I didn't vote for any of those options. I wish Ustwo had weighed in on this post. The culprit is an overactive pancreas, which leads to hypoglycemic shock (or "not feeling satisfied" after your meal). I've tried explaining this to many people, but no one ever seems to believe me, even though it is documented fact, and I serve as a living example. I recommend the South Beach Diet. It is based on real science, designed by a real doctor. I lost 20 lbs just by doing the "diet", and once I added light exercise to it I lost another 20 lbs, and I've kept it off for a year with very little effort, no exaggeration.
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I should've been more specific. It's a case of relative hypoglycemia. People eat refined carbs, which are quickly absorbed, which leads to a quick response by your pancreas of insulin secretion. This quick drop in blood sugar is what makes people not feel "satisfied". I've only studied diabetes a little (I have my bachelor's degree in clinical laboratory science, just graduates, w00t!), but from my understanding, the drop in blood sugar doesn't have to land you into an actual hypoglycemic range.
Say you drink a large drink with lots of sugar in it (think StarBucks frappuccino for example). Your blood sugar level may shoot up to 190 mg/dl (with the normal range being about 70 to 120 mg/dl, depending on which book you look at). Your pancreas quickly responds and brings your sugar level down to 125 mg/dl. Your blood sugar level is still too high, but because of the quick drop, you develop relative hyoglycemia, which makes you feel just as hungry and unsatisfied as actual hypoglyemia would. You proceed to consume more sugar to alleviate this dissatisfaction, and in the process bring your sugar level way up beyond normal levels again, and the whole thing becomes a self-perpetuating cycle. True hypoglycemia is when your blood sugar level dips below about 50 mg/dl (again, depending on what book you look at, but it's around that range), which also makes you feel hungry. I like your signature Baraka_Guru, especially the T.S. Eliot quote. Consider this to be one of those tidbits of truth that people would rather not hear. And consider this: following wherein you control your sugar level (again, I can't recommend a South Beach Diet book enough) can actually cure some cases of type 2 diabetes. I don't know much about the eating habits of people around the world, but I would assume that places where diabetes, heart disease and obesity are not a problem are places where refined carbs are scarce or shunned. |
We as humans have a tendency to overanalise the shit out of evertyhing. Bottom line..........too much food (portions much bigger at restuarants than 20 years ago) and less exercise. We in North Amercia are LAZY!
Too many excuses.......product of a self indulgent society. |
There is no bottom line. For example, there are many fat healthy people.
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For crying out loud there's an epidemic of Type 2 Diabetes in children. Children aren't supposed to have Type 2 Diabetes. |
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