Pet Food Survey
 

I was just curious as to what kind of food you give to your own dog and/or cat. We occationally give him table scraps (like pizza crusts), but his diet consists of half can food and half dry food.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you feed your pet?

Ours get something called Solid Gold. :) They've seemed to really enjoy it, it's human grade food, and it's amazingi that our Dane is not so gassy when he's eating it.

Nutro for my little SweetPea. I think she really likes it. I add glucosamine to it sometimes. Supplemental food includes eggs, cheese, peanut butter, treats, Greenies, bullies, and chicken.

Dry food for doggies and a mixture of pouch/dry for kitty. The dogs end up getting table scraps(or something deliberatly 'left' for them. Dry food make doggy-doo patrol much easier and hardly any gas problems!

My babies get unlimited dry food and I use the canned food as a treat about once a week or so. :)

Pedigree works for me. Not too expensive and still has enough protein for my 2 Labs. They do get some scraps but usually not more than once a week.

My cats are on Feline c/d to control magnesium levels. We've already had one cat with FUS and we don't need to go through that again.

The dog eats about anything we give her. Currently she's eating Nutro lamb & rice.

Dry food diet. Eukanuba only. I'll give them table scraps but it's very rare.

Oh yeah, I also give them daily coat pills and weekly vitamins..they act like they enjoy them so it's easy

The dog only eats canned food from Costco. It's all he will eat--unless it's cat food or people food. He occasionally gets table scraps. When he was a puppy he would refuse to eat his food unless you mixed people food in with it. People act horrified when we tell them that he ate a lot of table scraps in his early life, but he's still acting like a puppy at 8 and has the shiniest coat you've ever seen.

The cats eat canned food and have dry food out away somewhere high where the dog can't get to it. Otherwise he gobbles their food right up. Guess cat food is tasty.

Bullies...is that beef?

*hopes it really is bullies, being ground up and added to pet food*

We get...something in a big blue bag for all our cats. Dry food. Not a one of them likes canned food. very occasionally I'll dole out a tidbit of roasted chicken meat (they'll condescend to eat a few bites--mostly they just want to see what we're eating). One cat goes mad for a few bites of deli ham...but that's it. I've never seen such non-food-motivated animals in my life. Makes it hard to make anything a treat.

Half a cup of purina and half a can of alpo twice a day.

Ha haha sultana, that's a good idea! Canned Bullies. No, bullies is slang for bully sticks. Apparently they are bull penises. They're chewey and nutritious and make a good snack for doggies. Not sure about cats though, I think they are more picky.

*edit* Oh wait, to answer your question, yeah, I guess that would make it beef then.

Hahahahaha! Bull penises? *snort* Oh tell me youre kidding! They actually MAKE those?????

Tell me im not the only one laughing too....

Er, yes they are available. I don't really think that anyone "makes a bull penis", they're sort of just....born that way? I mean, you know...it's natural....as in a penis is natural. Er, a natural bull penis, which would make it beef? *starting to turn red*.......

Eh....I think the only "treatment" is the drying and draining of fluid from the actual bull penis (again, naturally "made") in preparation for it as a dietary supplement for your pet and as a delicious treat.

Um...I guess if you stare at it long enough, you can see the penile origins of the final..."product", that is, the dried and drained all natural beef bull penis, also known as "bullies".

*runs away in embarrassment*

*starts laughing because Lady Sage is laughing*

I use mostly dried food. however, it's organic and it has a high moisture content, which should help with an contispation/tummy upset issues that happens commonly with dry goods only diets.


sweetpea

Wanna kill your cat or dog?

Just feed it cat or dog food.

So far, I am the lone vote for making my own cat food.

I can not stress enough how bad processed animal food is for your cat or dog, especially the dry stuff. I know I used to feed my cat Eukanuba Diet cat food. She never lost an ounce. By fluke, I had her blood tested revealing that she had kidney problems. Long story short, I took her to see a natural vet (a certified vet, but one who doesn't believe in selling you "vet pet food" or narcs) after her regular vet told me she'd be dead in a year, but that I had to give her two different kinds of narcs and some vet sold KD diet cat food (KD = Kidney disease)

She (the natural vet) told me that ALL pet food, regardless of how they dress up the bag, is poisonous for our four footed friends. It's all crap, made from crap, made to be convienient for humans. Imagine food that doesn't rot - how's that possible?

Anyway, she had a convincing arguement - that vets make more money selling food and narcs than they do being vets. Hardly unbiased. We use pet foods to get rid of the bottom of the barrel rotting food, mix it with anything to fill the animal up and package it to be convienient to the human owners.

My cat was supposed to be dead a year ago. I have been making her chicken and veggies, or fish and veggies for 2 years now and she has lost weight (holding at 9 pounds) and is asleep right now in the other room.

The multi billion dollar pet food industry would like you to believe that pets somehow require some secret food that only they can make. Nothng could be a bigger pile of steaming horseshit. Well, your animal would probably be better off eating fresh horseshit than it would be eating anything by IAMS or Eukanuba (Proctor and Gamble and Colgate Palmolive)

Believe me, I am not a birkenstock wearing tree hugging hippie, but I do work in the corporate world and I know how they operate. If they could sell us cotton dipped in chocolate and get us to eat it for lunch, they would. Animals can't voice their concerns. So just ask yourself - Would you want to eat what you are feeding your cat or dog?

If the answser is no, then your cat or dog probably feels the same way. How'd you like to eat cheerios every day, three times a day, for the rest of your life?

Well, given that all of my animals have lived happy, healthy, long lives with regular dog/cat food, I'm going to have to disagree.

Some pets just have health problems, and some of them are sensitive to some foods, just like humans are. Some, like my animals, did just fine on Friskies and canned dog food from Costco.

So I'll keep on feeding my pets regular food, thanks...

All dry food. We have one cat that never seems to shake her urinary tract infection, so she's required to eat Feline CD from Science Diet. Since there's no practical way of feeding one cat one thing and the other three cats something much more tasty, they're ALL on the CD diet now.

All dry food, cafeteria-style. We tend to mix up types, so there's no real imbalances in nutrients. I have tried to get the cats to eat turkey, or cheese, or anything other than just cat food. They don't like wet food, and they only like smelling human food.... except for Punkin and his lettuce fetish! That cat gets SO EXCITED when you open a bag of salad, holy cow... he loves lettuce. Yep. Weirdo.

And yes, JamesTKirk - it would be nice to feed them something a bit more like real food. But they don't like regular food. And no, it's not cost efficient. And I have had pets my whole life, and my mom for her whole life, and we have never once had any trouble with feeding them dry food. I'm sorry you had such a rough time, though, and I'm glad that she's doing so well now.

All dry food, no table scraps. They apparently have allergies to the common dry foods, but we found one that doesn't cause them to be constantly scratching, so we're sticking to that... They also get treats, mostly liver based or peanut butter in their kongs... (Peanut butter in a kong, with a liver treat hidden inside, then frozen... Good for hours of licking, and LOTs of tail wagging... :) )

We feed our dog dry food. Very occasionally, we will give him a very small amount of meat table scraps, but only in his bowl and only after we have eaten and left the kitchen.

It's actually not that much more expensive to feed your cat human food.

For example a can of cat food in my grocery store is 49 cents. The same sized can of tuna is 99 cents.

I have never met a cat that didn't like Tuna.

Here's an interesting link to the pet food industry...

http://www.messybeast.com/cat-food-industry.htm

You may be disturbed, as I was, to find that you may be feeding your pet road kill, euthanized dogs, and chicken feet, even if you are spending $40 a bag on "premium" food.

The pet food industry has many dark secrets hidden behind the colorful bags and sentimental slogans. Most pet food companies are actually garbage bins for other companies owned by huge corporations. In those kibbles there's a truth that's not so appetizing.

To me, the biggest injustice is that there are pet owners out there who think they're doing the best for their dogs. I found out I was feeding my dog from one of the worst companies out there. You owe it to yourself and your animals to find out what you're really feeding them.

http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/Spri...d/Contents.htm

Keep telling yourselves that your pet is being well fed. And yes, I am selling a bridge in Brooklyn if anyone is interested.

cheers

Don't be duped by huge corporations.

BTW, there is no quality control, no testing, no government standards for pet food.

my cat cant eat seafood....real or "seafood flavored" cat food....she throws up every single time

Dry food (non fish flavored) works just fine for her

Ok James, you have my attention. I went to the sites you linked, but I didn't see my brand listed. Looking at the ingredients list on the bag, everything seems to be fine.

I guess the moral of the story os to be diligent and use common sense.

Tuna depletes vitamins out of a cat if fed too often. Tuna is a very rare treat for my girls (and boy but he has no boy parts so is he a girl now too?) *End attempt at humor*

Simba gets dry food. I am not really sure why, it has just always been that way. I give him Iams Indoor, older cat food.

All 5 cats eat Feline C/D Science Diet Dry and have their entire lives. Looking at about 7 plus years now on that diet and I couldn't be happier with it.

Hence the need to mix the tuna or chicken with veggies.

My natural vet told me that cats are pure carnivores, however, they do need vitamins and minerals. Apparently, the ratio is 80% meat to 20% veggies with absolutely no carbs or rice.

The veggies contain the vitamins and minerals that a cat needs. They also need chlorophyl, which is why you will see them eating grass from time to time. The vet recommended wheat grass, or dandelions, or simply parsley. I also add calcium citrate and potassium to their veggie pulp.



I guess I am not saying this loud enough - NEVER FEED A CAT DRY CAT FOOD, YOU ARE KILLING YOUR CAT IT'S CONVIENIENT CHEAP FOOD IS ALL


BTW, As I said, I don't vote for the NDP, I don't own birkenstocks, I don't believe in the welfare state, in fact I am an Engineer dammit, I know corporate bullshit when I see it.


I was doing some googling on cat diets and found a very interesting site by a vet in the states.

He too strongly recommends against EVER feeding a cat dry (human convienience) food. Here's an excerpt..


We Are Feeding Cats Too Many Carbohydrates

In their natural setting, cats—whose unique biology makes them true carnivores--would not consume the high level of carbohydrates (grains) that are in the dry foods that we routinely feed them. You would never see a wild cat chasing down a herd of biscuits running across the plains of Africa or dehydrating her mouse and topping it off with corn meal gluten souffle! In the wild, your cat would be eating a high protein, high-moisture content, meat-based diet, with a moderate level of fat and with only ~6-9% of her diet consisting of carbohydrates. The average dry food contains 35-50% carbohydrates. Some of the cheaper dry foods contain even higher levels. This is NOT the diet that Mother Nature intended for your cat to eat! A high quality canned food, on the other hand, contains ~3-6% carbohydrates. Cats have a physiological decrease in the ability to utilize carbohydrates due to the lack of specific enzymatic pathways that are present in other mammals, and the lack a salivary enzyme called amylase. Cats not only have no dietary need for carbohydrates, but too many carbohydrates can actually be detrimental to their health, as outlined below. With this in mind, it would be as illogical to feed a carnivore a steady diet of meat-flavored cereals as it would be to feed meat to a vegetarian like a horse or a cow, right? So why are we continuing to feed our carnivores like herbivores? Why are we feeding such a species-inappropriate diet? The answers are simple. Grains are cheap. Dry food is convenient. Affordability and convenience sells. But is a carbohydrate-laden, plant-based, water-depleted dry food the best diet for our cats? Absolutely not. They are designed to eat meat – not grains.

Cats Need Plenty of Water With Their Food

Another extremely important nutrient with respect to overall health is water. It is very important for a cat to ingest water with its food, as the cat does not have a very strong thirst drive. This is a critical point. This lack of a strong thirst drive leads to low-level, chronic dehydration when dry food makes up the bulk of their diet. Cats are designed to obtain most of their water with their diet since their normal prey contains ~70% water. Dry foods only contain ~10% water whereas canned foods contain ~78% water. Canned foods therefore more closely approximate the natural diet of the cat and are better suited to meet the cat's water needs. A cat consuming a predominantly dry-food diet does drink more water than a cat consuming a canned food diet, but in the end, when water from all sources is added together (what's in their diet plus what they drink), the cat on dry food consumes approximately HALF the amount of water compared with a cat eating canned foods. This is a crucial point when one considers how common kidney and bladder problems are in the cat.

Link to rest...

http://www.homevet.com/petcare/feedingyourcat.html

My cat has kidney problems from eating dry cat food. End of story.\

If you have to feed your cat processed cat food, at least feed it the turd from the can, and not the turd from the bag. At the very least.

Oh my..... such violence.

I never thought I would see the day in a pet thread. I was incorrect.

Not violence. I just love animals.

I am merely pointing out the fact that so many people have been duped for so long by huge corporations that they aren't using that thing on top of their shoulders.

You've been sold a bill of goods people that simply isn't true.

I even thought about the cost angle, and yes, it is more expensive to make your own cat food, but then I thought, "well, how much does it cost when you have to take your cat to the vet for chronic renal problems"?

A lot more than if you just fed it properly in the first place.

Like the old saying, pay me now, or pay me later.

Ok, I am a bad mom in your eyes cause I feed my kids dry food more than wet. Got it. My pets however dont agree. Never had urinary or kidney probs out of any of my pets. See not all vets agree on everything and not all owners agree on everything. Thats the beauty of free choice. I am exercising one of mine right now. :) Good day.

I agree with JTK (though perhaps without all the shouting :lol: )

Commercial pet foods are terrible for your pets. The industry is completely without regulation.

Some of the contents of pet food include:

euthanized pets
meat from the supermarket that has passed it's best before date (they don't take the time to remove the styrofoam and cellophane)
horses that have been "put to sleep" (it isn't glue factory that gets them these days)
Farm animals that are not safe enough for the human food supply (i.e. a sick cow -- including all of the medicine that was in their system)

etc.

It really is crap.

I started looking into this years ago when I got my dog. He is a Dane/Lab cross. Dane are known for their short life span -- 9 years on average. The stats show that this is only true in North America. In Europe where there is more of a tradition of feeding table scraps the Danes were living to 15 on average.

Further tests were done and it was discovered that diet had everything to do with it.

My dog eats only table scaps or Organic dry food (HundenFlocken or Fromms are the two we suppliment with they are made from human grade food). The dog eats better than I do.

The result is amazing. I have never had a dog with whiter teeth (the vet frequently comments with surprise that he doesn't need scalling) and better coat.

He is going on eight-years-old and while he getting older he is still quite youthful and vigourous.


As for cat food... most is high in ash. I had to put two cats to sleep before I learned that lesson. High ash = bladder problems.

Errrm...my new pup has to be brought down to dig out the big hunk of pet hair she finds somewhere outdoors. I have no idea what the attraction to that gunk is, but she keeps finding it.

Processed food is one thing but Tiffany my eldest feline (8) has this thing for eating toilet paper.

My dog Natasha, an 8yr old Siberian Husky is feed dry kibble only. specifically Pedigree Small Crunchy Bites. She is fed about 3-4 cups once a day and has one opportunity to eat. if she dose not want to eat the food is removed until the next day. I never give her any human food, I think that is a bad training habit that should be avoided. my last husky, Tovarisch, was raised by me from a pup the same way and I could leave his sitting on the couch with my dinner on a plate next to him while I left the room without fear that he would eat it. All this was achieved through positive reenforcement and talking to him in his language. I firmly believe that if you want your dogs to really understand you and do what you ask them to do you must speak to them in dog.

nothing to say

100# of dry dog food for two dogs. Cheap stuff, but they love it. Sure, they love steak more, but I ain't shellin' out $600 worth of steak for dogs/month. :D

Thelma Lou (half pug, half mini-doberman) likes Mighty Dog Lamb with Rice dinner (the type that is like pate), but it must be cut into bite size slices. She also likes Gravy train dry.

But she mostly likes whatever me or my mom are eating - and darned it all, if we don't fall for her cute little brown begging eyes, especially if we are having maccaroni andff cheese.....

Now THAT she loves.

She's also about 5 lbs overweight, so we need to wean her off the mac n cheese.

It's tough to do, as my mom wants to give her anything she wants. :|

Hi Kirk,

Some would say this is a little extreme but in a lot of ways it is true, especially for cats. Dogs are essentially omnivores, able to survive on all kinds of junk, but cats are true carnivores. They would naturally eat the ENTIRE animal including stomach contents, which the animal had digested for them. They are not able to synthesize vitamins the way mice (for example) are able to do, nor are their systems equipped to digest startches properly on their own. A cat would never, ever eat grain in its natural state.

This being said, all extruded dry kibble must be at least 40% starch for the machine to be able to make it (some baked "fancy" foods have more meat), which means it is 40% unsuitable for cats. We, as humans, should not fall into the trap of thinking that what is healthy for us is also healthy for our cats: No matter how proudly a pet food will say it has "healthful whole grains" no grain is healthful for a cat.

When meat is cooked until it turns brown and dry, the most delicate of the amino acids are denatured. This results in chronic amino acid imbalance which can cause degenerative disease later in life. This shows up as kidney failure sometimes and afflicted one of my cats, too.

Other organ failure is caused by vitamin deficiency. Antioxidant vitamins are volatile and easily destroyed in cooking and processing; Vitamin C in particular is not present in high enough levels in processed cat foods. Cats normally consume vitamin C "factories" in the mice they catch and eat (most rodents produce their own vitamin c) and consequently require quite a bit of the vitamin. This can only be supplied by fresh foods and organ meats.

All of this is true for dogs as well, but to a lesser extent because of their omnivorous nature. All the same, it is undeniable the improvement in coat, energy, and longevity that one will see in a dog given liberal supplements of "real" food. My last dog survived autoimmune disorders and eventual kidney failure for 5 years because of the special food I made for her every day.

Table scraps have a bad name for dogs because they are usually exactly that--the "scraps" that humans did not want to eat. This is meat gristle, bones, crusts, skin. What they need is meat, organs (can't over-emphasize the necessity of organ meats!), and, believe it or not, vegetables. Dogs graze on leaves and grass and love vegetables when given a chance. My dog picks cherry tomatoes off my vines and eats them with great gusto, and I did not teach her to do it--it was a natural and healthy impulse. Dogs DO NOT neet more fat and starch added to their diet because kibbles already have plenty!

I give my dog some kibble, because I do not have faith in my ability to properly balance her vitamins, but I also supplement her diet extensively with chicken giblets, beef liver, and vegetables. She eats some of my lunch and dinner every day--not the scraps, but the healthy stuff. Every week I buy a cheap roast (she doesn't mind if it's tough), slice it, and fry it really rare--just barely enough to kill the germs--and give her one of these a day.

To expect a dog to live off of nothing but kibble is like to expect a human to live off of nothing but jerky, bread, and vitamin pills: you can SURVIVE on it, but no one would say it was ideal!

And don't get me started on dog "treats"--those chicken-flavored wheat biscuits devoid of nutrition! Just give your dog what he REALLY wants as a treat: MEAT!

Cats are true carnivores, yes, however, they do eat grass for chlorophyl. You let your cat out and you will see them eating grass, sometimes they throw up as a result, but what they are after is the cholorphyl.

I feed my 2 cats mainly chicken, sometimes liver, sometimes tuna. Mixed with 20% veggies or so (green beans, yellow beans, brocoli, cauliflower, peas and carrots and parsley)

They have done very well by it and their weight is under control now.

They get a lot of chlorophyll from stomach contents and "green tripe" too, I think probably more than from grass since they can't really digest the roughage from raw grass. I've seen grass just come out the other end. I heard from people give cats wheatgrass juice occasionally. I might try it for my dog, too, who knows! I don't have a cat right now, though.

About veggies...keep in mind, green and yellow beans are almost totally devoid of nutritive value. They would get a denser, more nutritios diet with better veggies since they can't eat too many of them. I like peppers for their b vitamins, myself, and tomatoes for vitamin C.

I've been giving my kittens mostly dry food, knowing that I could do better for them. I've recently taken to the habit of sauteing the livers of all of the turkeys I've been cooking at work (they'd go into the trash otherwise), chopping them up, and cooking them with a little thin gravy. The first time I gave it to them, they spent a good 20 minutes trying to lick the bowl clean. Since then I've been trying to improve the food I give to them. I simmered some kale, cut it up really small and mixed it with the liver (since they don't care for vegetables) and used the cooking water to make the gravy... I don't know if that did anything... a raw foodie would say that I killed all of the nutrients by heating it up.
They've also developed the same expensive tastes that I have, seeing as I can't help but give them a taste of shrimp, duck, chicken, fresh fish or whatever I happen to be eating.
Out of curiosity James, what exactly do you feed your cats? Do you just cook human-style food, or do you know of a website that has some cat-specific recipes?
BTW.. after reading this thread, I think the Bubbles avatar really suits you, he's the smartest guy in the park.

My dogs eat organic dry food with a lot of veggies in it. We also mix up other things every day like wheat grass, a little goat's milk yogurt, oatmeal, banana, brown rice, canned organic dog food... they also get cherry tomatoes for snacks along with carrots and other veggies they'll eat.

Bagged Costco lamb & rice for now, while I get back in the hang of doggie-dom.

I've also neard from breeders who are natural diet proponents that the bagged food is largely garbage of convenience with pretty labels. I will be adapting my grocery shopping to include more vegetable and meat variety for the pooch. At <2yrs old any diet-related problems he picks up will be my own fault. Don't get me started on the bagged-food UTIs our golden always fought through. Golden are sensitive, but she showed how important diet could be.

Thanks for the iml link. Wow! I went there and got the list of "good" food producers. I them cross-refrenced the list to the local stores in my area. I was amazed to find two stores that carry nearly every one of the good brands. It is interesting to note that if a store does one thing right they can do many things right! I'm headed off today to see if their store clerks know what they're talking about and can teach me which products are best for my dogs and, more importanly,why.

Also, thank you for your passion. I'm sure you've been through a lot get where yo are with your current thinking. And you obviously care about yor pets. Other people on this thread may be defensive and it's probably because they care about their pets as much as you do yours.

We pretty much all care, which is the reason we have pets in the first place, and everyone is trying to do the right thing. It's also hard to imagine that the pet food industry - and especially our vets, the people we intimately trust to help us with our furry loved one - don't care the same way we do. I can tell you that I plan on having a long chat with my vet the next time I'm in, and I'll do it in front of the IAMs display!

Cat food Recipe

Consists of 2 parts.

Part No. 1 – Meat.

Chicken legs

Or Turkey legs and breasts

I roast the chicken till done, the clean them off the bones and store in tuperware containers enough for about 4 days at two servings per day. Freeze the lot and then take out as required.


Part No. 2 – Vegetables.

Peas – 1 can
Yellow and or green beans – bag full
Cauliflower
Broccoli
Carrots
1 apple
Parsley (for chlorophyll, cats need chlorophyll. You can also use wheat grass, or brewers yeast or mescalin salad mix even.)
Potassium supplement (got this from the vet in Hamilton – “the cat clinic” www.thecatclinic.ca )

You can also add some melon and or pineapple as well.

I then boil all the veggies together briefly, except the chlorophyll source. Take all veggies and puree in a food processor into a pulp and add the chlorophyll source as you puree. Add some potassium supplement to the mix by crushing potassium tablets using spoons then add into the mix and puree. Also, add some calcium citrate to the veggie pulp for a good calcium source.

Spoon “veggie pulp” into zip log bags about a cup’s worth, or even slightly less. Freeze the bags separately.

I then feed the cat twice a day by chopping up the chicken into bits and adding a spoon full of the veggies. Mix it up.

Vet recommended the ratio of about 60 percent meat and 40 percent veggies for a cat with kidney disease and about 80 / 20 for a healthy cat. However, too much veggie and the cat walks away. You have to fool the cat into thinking its all meat. I probably go about 70 / 30. Part of the thing with KD is that you want to lower protein, but you want good protein.


For kidney disease, add cranberry powder to food on a daily basis and mix in. Essentially, you salt the food with the cranberry powder, then mix it in.

To vary the meat, you can use liver (Vitamin A), or oily fish. Sardines and tuna are good.

For a cat with Kidney disease give it 2 pellets of Dalisas Reninen D-30 in its daily drinking water. (Recommended by natural path vet.) However, I give the cat these maybe twice a week in her water.

It takes about 1 evening after work every 5 or 6 weeks to make a batch of food up. It’s actually pretty simple and logical.

Natural path vet was adamant that ALL pet food is garbage, no matter what any vet tells you. (Bear in mind this woman is a certified vet.)

Her name is Sharon Kopinak
Rockwood Ontario N0B 2K0
(519) 853-5142

Thanks for the info James, what you posted is actually pretty close to what I've been doing, minus the supplements, and I just finely dice the veggies + greens right into the meat, my cats don't seem to mind, but they would eat the vegetables that I feed myself before I started making their food. Do you think that throwing a little mashed banana into the mix would be a good enough source of potassium, or is a supplement really necessary?
The hardest thing about making my own pet food is aiming to cook for nutrition and not taste. I have a habit of tasting everything I cook, and let's just say that homemade cat food doesn't taste much better than the stuff you buy.

You can get a log ot natural potassium into a pet's diet if they will eat cantaloupe. That is a really rich source and my cats always loved it, especially the rind.

I think that the potasium supplement was more for the fact that my one cat is suffering from Kidney disease.

The big thing in feeding your pet properly is to bear in mind that dogs and cats especially should not be eating grains - carbs and rice under any circumstances.

Processed pet foods are loaded with all things bad for your pet, including carbs and assorted other garbage.

Why are there no bones or organ meats in the recipe? Is there a reason for that?

Why shouldn't dogs eat any grains? I mix a little brown rice or oatmeal in with our prepared foods. I don't disagree with you I just don't understand!
_______________________________________________________
I just got back from a good dog food store and decided to share this info, so this is part two of a post since no one posted in between.

I checked with my neice the vet on which dog foods might be best and also sent her two of the links osted in this thread. The second link she mentions was http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/Spri...d/Contents.htm and the first and good one was http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/contrast.html. I still the the link she doesn't like has some merit. More important, I think her overall response provided a broad, common sense explanation of how to look at things. Thought everyone might be interested in her response:

"Ok, the first link has merit and offers two very good references, and is in general, an accurate explanation of dogs' and cats' dietary needs.

The second link you can stick in your urban legends categories. Whenever a web site starts off with my, me, I, just click the little x in the corner of the window, because the likelihood of it being anything but subjective, personal opinion and hearsay is fairly low. Notice no references were sited for their remarks about road kill and euthanized animals. There are very strict regulations about disposal of euthanized animal carcasses, so strict that many rendering companies are closing shop, because it's getting to be cost prohibitive to jump through all of the hoops necessary for proper disposal, so selling them to pet food manufacturers is not an option.

Just think about wild cats and wolves/coyotes and how they consume a kill. They do not preferentially just eat the muscles of their kill, they eat the whole carcass. That includes the organs, the intestines, the bones, etc. In so doing, they are ingesting protein (muscle), carbohydrates (ingesta of herbivores intestines), minerals (organs, and bones), in a very balanced fashion. The key element is balance. People have killed their exotic cats by feeding them meat only diets, so no diet consisting of meat alone is appropriate for a carnivore...don't let the name fool you.

When you are looking for information, look for well-referenced sources, and be especially careful with fats. There is generally not much fat in the diet of the wild carnivore (they normally kill the weaker prey animals, very young, very old, or sick and debilitated...therefore, not much fat on these animals). The canine and feline pancreas is not designed to handle the amount of fat that we consume in our diets, so trimmings from steaks, bacon grease, etc. are big no-nos.

Be sure to get a good reference for the vegetables and fruits that are safe for animals, as there are several that are toxic (grapes and raw onions) and should not be added to their diet.

Hope this helped somewhat."

Yeah, the "grains are poison" thing is something I have heard from several sources. While it is true that they are not natural, it is also true that carnivores and omnivores (we should remember that a dog is more of an omnivore than a carnivore since they scavenge) are readily able to process them and are equipped to handle almost anything.

For dogs especially I think some grains can safely be used in their diet, but we should know that the grains are for OUR convenience as a cheaper food. Don't let people tell you that pets "need" whole grains--NO ONE "needs" grains. Grains are a creation of mankind to suit our desires for a cheaper and easier-to-produce food to feed our vast numbers.

I have to disagree with that statement. Whole grains are a naturally growing item. Humans screw them all up through processing to make bleached white flour for Wonderbread and pretty, white rice. Left in their natural state - whole grains with the husks and brown rice with the exterior, and they are a very good, neccessary, natural food source.

As with everything, it's all about balance.

I was told by the naturalpathic vet that grains are simply forbidden for cats. She told me that grains and rice are converted to sugar and stored as fat and are responsible for the large number of diabetic cats.

I didn't discuss dogs with her and I took her at her word. No grains for my cats.

My one cat was quite the little heffer when I got her and since switching her away from processed foods (that are high in fillers and grains) she has dropped several pounds. (Her stomach used to drag on the floor.) and she seems much healthier and her coat is definitely clean and free from dandruff.

As to the organs, the vet stated that liver was a good thing for cats and from time to time, I give them some liver. One loves it, the other won't touch it.

My big beef is with the dried "Kibble" type pet foods. No food that you can keep in a bag for 10 years without it rotting can be good for your pet period. Those foods are manufactured with two things in mind - convience and cheap.

Convienient because you can feed your dog or cat in about 30 seconds and kid yourself that it is good for the animal.

Price because they are all crap and are cheap to produce and therefore you make more profit.

Nutro Sensitive Stomach with Oatmeal. One of my pugs has a very sensitive stomach and will puke up anything but this special food, so they all get it because it is too hard to feed them individually.

Thingstodo, grains are a creation of man. We are not evolved to "need" grains any more than we "need" cane sugar.

First of all, how exactly did mankind 'create' grains? I was under the impression that they were always there, and that humanity developed agriculture so we wouldn't have to forage for the fruits, vegetables and grains that have always been a necessary part of our diet.
Humans are designed to run off of glucose, a carbohydrate. Protein and fat can be converted into glucose for energy, but not very efficiently, and in the long term, can cause ketosis (when the blood becomes too acidic), this is fatal.
Cats and dogs aren't humans. They have evolved to live off of a protein-based diet. I don't know the mechanics of a cat's digestive system, but you don't see feral cats cooking little pots of rice in the wild too often, so it probably means that they don't need carbohydrates.

JT, If you should happen to speak with her and she has a standard handout on dog diet, I'd be thankful to hear it. I've bumped into a few alternates online but I like her balance of priorities and reasoning.

I'd be interested to learn more about where you collected that tidbit of information. From all I've learned over the years, corn, wheat rice - all those things have been around. In fact, our teeth are shaped the way they are, in part, in order to process grain.

Wild corn and wild wheat looks a lot like the sheaves of ornamental grass that you see sometimes decorating malls and restaraunts. the corn and wheat we eat in our pancakes have come a long, long way from their origins. While not to say that we would naturally eat seeds, such as wild rice (you can find this in health food stores and compare it to regular rice to see what I mean), please keep in mind that the period of time in which we have been growing wheat and corn is a blip in evolution, barely time for us to even start losing our wisdom teeth.

My pooch gets California Natural brand dry dog food.

It's as good as dry food gets ... he's healthy and happy.

Sure, in a perfect world he'd have hand-prepared food ...

Then again, in a perfect world, I'd be eating organic, macrobiotic foods from a garden in my back yard instead of the cheeseburgers and fries and coca-cola I often get. It doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to die in the near future ... nor does it mean I'm going to suffer from coronary artery disease, acquire diabetes or get some form of cancer in the future... trust me, I'm a doctor.

Not all dry food is the same. California Natural lamb meal & rice formula is 21.0% protien and 11% fat. The protein source is 100% lamb meal and contains sunflower oil with brown and white rice. It costs more than the major brands but it's as good as dry food gets ... and apparently it tastes better than most foods to my dog. He eats better than I do.

Good point. So are many of the vegetables and fruits we eat, cows, pigs, sheep, chickens, and of course, domesticated dogs.

Something being "natural" doesn't necessarily make it right or better. Something being "artificial" or "man-made" doesn't make it wrong or worse.

Oh, I never said it was bad fo people. I just said it was unnecessary. That you don't have to lie awake at night wondering if it is ok that you only ate 2 pieces of bread today, or that your dog only had 1 pizza crust. Grains are very convenient and, indeed, the foundation of civilization, but that doesn't mean we NEED to eat them.

We feed our dog a mixture of dry and canned food, and he seems to enjoy it very much. As snacks, he gets some sausages and Greenies, which he loves. :)

The cats get a mix of canned/dry food for breakfast and supper, with a bowl of dry food left out for snacking.

They also get turkey, chicken, even salmon, depending on what we eat for supper on a given night.

I could not imagine solely eating dry food for a week, let alone a lifetime, and thus canned food accounts for a large portion of their main meals.

So your comments are opinion? And by the way, I do agree with your statement that most of what is commercially available today was created to make money.

I'm very familiar with wild rice and other wild grains/seeds. I'm also aware that humans have only been on earth for a short evolutionary period of time.

The regular "white" rice is processed rice with the husk removed. As is most of the process and bleached foods many people consume. And I was aware of how other wild grains grow, as well as the fact that we've commercialized the grain industry. That's where trans fats and high fructose foods came from!

My point is that hunter/gatherers ate what was available to them where they lived and during the time of the year. Based on that, humans did "need" grains to live as there were no other food sources during certain period of time.

He's getting 1/2 and 1/2 dry /canned Innova EVO.
Sometimes but on a regular basis he'll get some doggie bag meat like steak or chicken instead of the can 1/2.
I must say that his coat has never felt this good until we switched over to the EVO.

We have 2 new cats, they don't like tuna.

As far as chicken feet, hmmm Chinese people eat it, they sell it just down the street, can by it fresh or already prepared.

My dogs get science diet and sometimes lick dinner plates haha
Cleo is actually on purina OM at the moment to bring her down to a healthier weight. It works great!

My cats is another story. Raven has fatty liver disease so to make things easier all 4 of our cat's ate L/D science diet for two or three years. Raven's bloodlevels changed and we had to switch foods to try to lower it. Worked but then Iris became allergic to that particular food. Now they are all on Science diet sensitive stomach. I'm actually going through a bit of a rough time with these two right now. Both became ill this last week at the same time. Raven is back under control we believe. (stressed caused) Hopefully she's here for many more years. She almost died a while back and they gave her 3 years. I believe it's been four years now.
Iris they believe has inflammatory bowel disease. She flares up when she eats things that don't agree with her. (She eats anything she can get her fluffy paws on) The latest culprit was Victor's dog food.

We have tried cooking various things for them and it's hit and miss. Artemis refuses to eat anything that isn't her normal science diet food. After having Raven come down with liver disease from starving herself, I will not let another cat do the same.

Sometimes ( a lot of times) cats won't touch real food - i.e. fish, poultry, etc. They simply have been conditioned to eat the dry crud.

How you do it is to slowly turn them round.

Feed them their usual bowl of crud, but mix in just a bit of chicken. As time goes on, you increase the real food and decrease the crud until eventually they are eating (and used to) real food.

Grancey has recently started giving blueberry cottage cheese leftovers to the cats. As it works, she'll grab one of those Breakstone cottage cheese packages that comes with the blueberry filling in a separate sidecar, and a spoon, and eat it. But before she can even sit down to eat it, three cats are suddenly jockeying for position near her chair. When she's done, she'll hold the spoon out one way and the container the other way, and they'll divide themselves up over who gets to lick which part. If she doesn't put the container down quickly enough, our little fat one starts crying pitifully.

Never seen a cat eat blueberries before.

It's gotten so bad that if she can't find one of the cats for any particular reason, all she has to do is grab a plastic spoon out of the box and they'll all come flying from whatever dimension they were hiding in at the time.

I'm the second vote for preparing my own. I'd like to suggest to Kirk that while I agree with some of what you say, you don't have to be so dang militant about it. You don't change people's minds by yelling at them.

There is such a thing as quality kibble. For many people, it will end up being just as expensive as raw-feeding, but you can't beat the convenience. Even I sometimes miss being able to just dish out some dry food and be done. When I do, I just remember my favorite thing about raw-feeding: Their shit does not stink. Literally. If one of our dogs has an accident in our house (always our fault) we never know until we actually see it. :)