Credit as a deal breaker?
 

With the economy the way it is, it seems as if many people's credit is taking a nosedive. There is a credit report commercial with stupid jingles. The latest one shows a couple who have just gotten married and he's going on about how bummed he is that he didn't realize her credit was bad before they got married.

The logic in this commercial is ridiculous because you can still rent with bad credit so they wouldn't have to live in the parent's basement, but that's not the total point of my post.

When looking for a special someone or thinking about getting married, is the other person's credit score a factor?

Well, and you think the parents would cosign a loan for them or something, jeez...

And no, it's not. The implications of that ad are ridiculous.

When I meet a new woman (and this is for the sake of the argument here, not that I'm looking for another woman, just their pantsless bicycle riding) I have my STD report, my credit report, 3 professional references, 2 personal references, my most recent pay stub, a copy of last years tax filing, a photo of the last 3 generations for genetic compatibility, my medical records, military discharge papers proving it was honorable, a letter of recommendation from my boss, and my itunes card to show that I don't pirate music.

I'm all set for dating.

I thought the commercial was funny, but yeah the implication is kinda silly. To me it seems dreadfully shallow to break up with someone because they don't have good credit.

Ummm...ratbastid? I'm sure you've read the forum rules...they're here if you need a refresher. But to save time, I'll quote them.

In a word, no.

And I hate it when that song gets stuck in my head.

I don't know, I'd be willing enough to say maybe.

Shit happens and sometimes you have to float on credit when the cash isn't there but an absolutely horrible credit score very well may be indicative of a whole host of poor lifestyle choices.

Or maybe not even poor choices but choices that aren't conducive to bringing about the sort of lifestyle you've always imagined for yourself.

I don't know about the rest of you but the idea of scraping by whilst only being able to pay down the interest on your debts doesn't sound to appealing to me. Unappealing enough to kill the romance? Possibly.

This does seem very ridiculous. I know I see it as such, but I have known a lot of people who do take a possible significant other's credit score into account.

Probably seems ridiculous to me because I have horrid credit!

I've not seen the ad (don't watch much tube). But I assume he marries the girl, finds out her credit sucks and regrets the nuptials? And I assume it suggest he should have checked her credit first. That would be a dick move.

However I would be hesitant to marry a person I knew had bad credit based on her lack of responsibility. Bad credit due to a divorce is one thing. But because she would not pay her bills or had too many credit cards is another. Nevertheless, I wouldn't do a credit check.

If credit were such a deal breaker, the population would be in decline.

Maybe it should be then. Maybe it would get people to become more financially responsible.

Credit matters.

The commercial's ludicrous as far as I'm concerned. If the guy's living in her folks basement, they'd be working on cleaning up her credit.

I don't know if it'd be a dealbreaker. But I think you can usually tell by the way a guy does or doesn't spend his money. I might find a guy who always forgets his wallet less attractive.

It would seem stupid while dating. But once you are married, it would become HUGE.

Giving a person of interest the brush-off for a relationship based on their credit is ridiculous. Unless you're just a pathological non-payer of bills, bad credit doesn't prove anything except that at one point or another, you had no money or you had serious life trauma.

Personally, if I had money, I'd have amazing credit....

Oh sure, jorge my man. But what about those poor people who run pawn shops, "consumer credit" outfits, rent-to-own shops, loan sharks, etc.? What have they done wrong? If everyone had good credit -- an impossibility, by the way -- you'd put some nice crapitalists into the poorhouse.

I got my bad credit the old fashioned way: Irresponsible spending on credit cards when I was a teenager, and living beyond my means. At least it's almost back up to normal :thumbsup:

I think caring about your 'credit' is a scam.

Unless you are going to buy a new house, or buy a new car, who gives a shit?

Don't live beyond your means.

I know I don't care what my score is, and I won't for atleast 10 years, when I settle down to buy a house.

Just like a lot of other things, credit is just a racket, and another way for multiple companies to fuck you.

:thumbsup: Very well said.

I'm going to have to disagree. Not caring for 10 years until you settle down to buy a house might mean it's going to be too late to avoid or fix a bad or mediocre credit record. If you have 10 years, get started now; you'll be much better off.

Now although bad credit might not be a deal breaker, being in a good position to get a house and pay it off in under 15 years would do wonders for the relationship, I'm assuming.

Oh, that and credit companies don't operate rackets, because what they do is legal.

You should always care for your credit because everyone's watching it.

Finances are a big factor in virtually all relationships.

It's a deal breaker for me in marriage, plain and simple. It's an indicator of responsibility, money management, the ability to have 'delay gratification' and save appropriately for expensive items, and the ability to hold down meaningful employment.

Credit is absolutely not a racket. However, far too many people use credit irresponsibly. If you can't "afford" to purchase things with appropriate saving, it's probably beyond your means. Instead of finding a credit card or a credit company who will extend you that money at a high interest rate, you should spend that same amount of time searching for more appropriately remunerated employment.

I use credit only for things that I can afford in the short term. I similarly plan to put a sizable majority of my mortgage down at the beginning. If you like throwing away money, I recommend using credit. If you like having money, I recommend putting your money places that it works for you. Interest rates are great if you're on the right side of them.

ALL of those things are important to me in a future spouse. The ability to marry and not ruin my otherwise impeccable credit is an added bonus, considering the time I've spent responsibly managing my credit and saving for the things I want.

For a girlfriend? Not so much - you're not sharing many meaningful assets, and your credit score isn't so summarily lumped together by credit agencies as it is for married couples.

Every US law enforcement agency I've ever looked into uses a credit report as one of many factors for hiring new peace officers. From what I can gather, they do it for two reasons:

1) It's an indicator of financial responsibility, and by extension, general
responsibility.

2) It's an indirect indicator of the likelihood that the officer will accept a bribe or favorable treatment in exchange for leniency - someone who is deeply in debt is more likely to be willing to compromise their morals to alleviate the financial strain.

If anyone wouldn't marry someone they "loved" because of some credit card debt, I feel very very sorry for you.

I doubt that I would find myself loving someone in the "for the rest of my life" mindset who exhibited such poor self control that they weren't able to establish financial stability and fiscal responsibility. It's an indicator of other self-control issues, issues which would be more likely to end the relationship than a poor credit rating.

I'm also not one of those who subscribes to fairy tale ideal of "better poor and in love than rich and unhappy" mindset. I don't intend to be destitute, and the 'happy' or 'unhappy' status is not mutually exclusive with that goal. I'm not talking about being extremely wealthy here, only comfortable. It should be "better comfortable and happy than poor and happy or rich and unhappy."

Key Point:


I have stopped using credit. I'm riding out my 7 years of shitty credit, which is situational and immaturity based. I'm not proud of it, but I've learned from it.

I say credit card companies are a racket. Anyone who has done some research on them knows that. The only reason it is legal is because the companies lobbied congress in order to screw people who use them. They prey on people at age 18, entering college, when they are unaware of the entire process. Having a ceiling of 30%+ APR on a credit card is a racket, legal or not.

Watch Maxed Out! if you want to see some of the effects credit is having on people.

I'm riding out my student years quite slowly. I didn't miss the "Don't live beyond your means," but that can be read as "Don't make your credit payments more than you can afford." :)

I generally took issue with the other items because of their shortsightedness and falseness. (Rackets are illegal activities.)

The contracts are legally binding. It might seem predatory, but the students were in essence told what they were getting into. I don't like it either, but calling it a racket is extreme. That does little for the situation if you want to talk about advocacy or education. The environment for screwing may have been created by the companies, but the users are the ones who screw themselves.

Thanks for the recommendation. I just might take you up on it.

Then, let's go for it's an unjust, wrong, unfair, inappropriate, unethical, and/or just a plain shitty situation that the majority of people go into with their eyes closed.

I am not a fan of playing the victim card. However, sometimes a person's credit turns bad without the person fully realizing what is happening.

I think that people who see what is going on and continues to use credit irresponsibly are the ones to avoid in relationships if you are looking for character through credit.

No problem, I found it to be interesting although they chose extreme situations to get the point across.

You can't call credit cards a racket because we need to save that word for payday loan stores. Fucking predatory vultures. :no:

I used to work at one. Hated it. So sad. How is 1800% APR legal?

I have news for you. Employers are now doing background checks which include credit checks. Bad credit can be an indicator of your level of responsibility. A poor perceived level can prevent you from getting a job. Not to mention that credit scores play into auto lease rates, rental options and rates, loan rates and even car insurance rates.

It is far to easy to do credit checks on people these days and the results are used in many ways to determine behavior and lifestyles that may be problematic. An attitude like this would be considered a problem with many employers.

right, one reason that employers use credit checks it to see fi someone can handle money.

also, if someone has creditors calling for them, or owe huge debt they may not be able to focus on the job and are worried about payments etc.

I don't believe it but it is what I've been told by HR.

I understand that you need to keep impeccable credit for getting a house, auto loan, and to work in financing careers. They are also basing auto insurance rates on credit scores in some states (AZ is one of them). But, how do you explain this...

I'm not ashamed anymore about it so I'll use me as an example.

My name is Shesus and my credit score is low, like 500s low. *insert Hi Shesus here* BUT, I qualified for 60 month 0% APR loan on a vehicle...

If you have to have good credit to get a decent car loan, how do you explain that? The only thing I can think of is that maybe they were clearing out inventory and just needed to get rid of last year's Jeeps. Or the credit system is a sort of joke like is implied by some in here.

Oh and I also just moved into an apartment with no problem. Maybe, I'm a freak of the credit system.

The State of Oregon's been doing credit checks on anyone considered an "officer of the court" since at least 1986. I bought a water bed while in the Navy in San Diego. It fell apart, I refused to pay, they gave up but dinged my credit score. When the State went to hire me I was almost through the first week of training and HR called me in. I almost got the boot. Had to write a multi-paged explanation, get witnesses etc... what a hassle. All over about $600.

duh.. i told you.... tits win. :P

Yes. Yes, they do.

Interestingly, I just watched this movie last weekend.... More on that in a moment.

Obviously, I'm probably a bit biased as a loan officer, but I'm going to have to say that credit would probably be a dealbreaker, as it is such a strong indicator of the level of responsibility that someone has.

Granted, there are always exceptions - huge medical expenses, divorce, ect, but as a general rule it would make a difference to me. Especially considering that finances are one of the leading causes of divorce - it would be silly (in my opinon, of course) to disregard one of the tried and true methods of determining whether or not someone is fiscally responsible or not.

Now, on to "Maxed Out!" - I thought that documentary was pretty much a pile. I didn't mind the majority of it, but I really wasn't a fan of how it portrayed companies "preying" on consumers - not to spoil it for some, but basically there is a portion in the show where two mothers are discussing how their college age kids commited suicide because the big, evil credit card companies offered their kids credit cards, and they used them irresponsibly and got themselves into a ridiculous amount of debt.

Where is the personal responsibility? I cannot even begin to count the number of times I've been taking an application for a client, and they ask for something that is a very poor decision for their long term financial well being - like taking out a home equity line of credit to go on vacation and buy that pair of ATVs that they've always wanted - and regardless of my professional advice, they want to go ahead and do it anyway. Realistically, who am I to say whether or not it's worth it to them, as it's a very personal choice, but I could personally never put myself in that situation - I value my financial health more than I value my expensive "wants."

Some people simply live beyond their means - it's a personal choice, and banks simply make it possible - they certainly don't force you to make poor financial decisions. Educate yourself, get some solid advice, and weigh the true cost of your next splurge - there is lots of great info out there, all it would take is a couple hours of research.

Out of curiosity, how does this happen? Very seldom have I come across someone that had no idea at all where their credit stood - at least approximately. Maybe not specific scores, obviously, but "Good" or "Bad" was usually pretty accurate.

It pretty much just boils down to paying bills on time - if you aren't, you're very likley damaging your score...

I've seen "Maxed Out" as well, and I generally agree with NoSoup. While I do think that some practices of the credit card industry take advantage of the financially ignorant for maximum profit, the thing that was never discussed was personal responsibility. While I sympathize with the parents of the teenagers who committed suicide as it's a very sad story, did the parents ever teach their kids about credit cards and personal finance? If they had, there's no way they would have found themselves in that kind of situation.

If this population of this country had better financial literacy, I strongly believe that we wouldn't be in such dire straits with our economy right now.

As for the discussion about the credit rating of your significant other, it matters. Finances are a big reason why married couples divorce, no? Scores matter when you get a car loan or a mortgage, and the couple want to own the property jointly, right? I suppose the partner with the better credit score could apply for the loans individually, but that'd probably get awkward if the couple divorced...

I've read over this thread a number of times and typed up a half-dozen different responses....

:shakehead:

That's right. I've left it to an emoticon as all my words have failed.

YES! Someone who is thinking.

My husband won my heart in part by his frugality, excellent money management skills, and yes, good credit. These things matter to me. I'm careful with my finances. I wasn't about to marry someone who couldn't hold up their end of things.

Granted, I wouldn't go so far as to check his credit score. Didn't need to.

I've known far too many women who were in debt up to their ears because they never learned how to manage their money. Honestly, who wants to take someone like that on?

So much for "Can't Buy Me Love."

We've become so materialistic that we actually think credit determines who we should fall in love with?

Evidently. Personally, I find it kind of disgusting and disturbing that it's even a factor in making a decision. There are lots of ways to work through poor credit--and a person's level of personal responsibility can have nothing to do with their credit score. I don't think it's a good judge of character at all. There are plenty of assholes out there with stellar credit. No thanks.

Guess I'm just a romantic :)

Very well said. Excellent insight.

+10 points!

JJ: I dated someone who didn't know how much he owed in student loans, on his truck, or on his credit cards because he just didn't keep track. He only found out how much he owed when he traded in his truck for a new sports car - with the new car on there, it added up to over $80,000. And this was someone who was considering buying a HOUSE.. he never would have been able to afford it, especially right out of college at $40,000 a year. Once those student loans kicked in, I'm sure he was glad he had moved back home.

I do find good money management to be important in determining who I will be in a long-term relationship with. Same goes for Crompsin - we're both in the same boat.

Financial worries can END marriages, why not make sure you're both able to manage your own finances before you tie the knot? A credit score is evidence of that, though knowing a person well and talking about money management and/or sharing expenses teaches you more about how responsible your SO is with money than a piece of paper can.

It's not the finances that ruin the marriage, it's the worrying and the mistrust. The finances are just the excuse we use.

Is it materialistic to have good credit? I always thought of good credit as a matter of honor. If one lives within their means, they will have good credit. If one has limited means and they still live within them and have excellent credit and savings, does that not mean they are even less materialistic?

How is one's credit score calculated?

The important thing to remember is that your credit score is more of a balancing act.

Here's a good link explaining just that: http://www.memberhomeloan.com/what_d...dit_score.aspx

How does one go about finding ones credit score? For free.

I know in Canada that if you request one by regular mail, credit bureaus will give you a report for free. At least they did at one point. Have a look into it.

In Canada, the three major credit bureaus are:

• Equifax
• TransUnion
• Northern Credit Bureaus

Exactly!

You're the only other person I've seen who has brought up the business of robbing poor people. And don't forget the insufficient funds fees charged by banks.

crapitalist...nice :)

You can't.

You can check your credit in general for free at each of the bureaus once a year at www.annualcreditreport.com - but it doesn't include the scores.

You might apply for credit somewhere and ask what the score is, but I wouldn't exactly call that free, because even if you don't get whatever product you applied for, it counts as an inquiry and may damage your score.

Perhaps this is why my opinion is so different. I don't consider it "robbing poor people." As far as insuficient funds fees charged by banks, it's the same deal.

Again, maybe I'm influenced by being a former bank employee, but these aren't nameless, faceless megacorporations with elite owners and nothing else - they are publicly traded companies. When we buy their stock, we expect it to increase over time - investors (people like you and me) don't want to throw their money away - we want it to grow. It grows mainly because the company is profitable - fees increase the bottom line, thereby bolstering the stock prices.

Do I think that the fees of a lot of check cashing places are outrageous? Sure I do! However, there is more than enough documentation required to get a "loan" - it isn't like the person borrowing has no idea what they are getting in to. It isn't like you accidentally walk into a check cashing store, accidently produce whatever documentation is required, then inadvertantly sign all the forms that plainly disclose the fees. Same with banks - whenever you are opening your account, you should be aware of all the banking policies of that institution. For goodness sake - they are generally holding onto a significant amount of your money - if not the majority of it - and you'll just hand it over and assume that some day you'll be able to get it back when you want it?

Buyer Beware folks. It's easy to blame check cashing places for charging the rates they do, but people still keep going to them. People who have used them before, signed the documents, and have paid the outrageous fees. To me, it's the same thing as someone making the decison to spend their rent money on that brand new 80 Gig Video Ipod - it's a poor decision made generally by willfully ignorant people. Nothing new here, except the scapegoat.

oh, and I would never check on or reject someone for their credit score.

If credit scores are so important, why do we have to pay to find out what they are?

It's very easy to tell someone who doesn't have another immediate choice not to go into that check cashing place and cash their check so they can go into the grocery store right next door and buy food for their family.

These 'businesses' exploit and make a lot of money off of poor people. You really cannot rationalize it in my mind.

And insufficient funds fees are insane. And yet, if you have good enough credit, your account can be protected from these fees. Therefore, they are largely, what I consider to be, stealing from people who are already in a hard place. And not only that, by taking these monies out of people's accounts, they are making their accounts vulnerable to bouncing even more checks. It's a fucking scam. And the banks have to be making hundreds of millions if not more on them.

I respect your difference of opinion, but I can't say that I agree :D

If you can afford to pay the ridiculous fees, you'd be hard pressed to not have the money to buy that $.25 package or ramen or whatever.

Although I understand people come across hard times, and sometimes the difficulty (or sheer expensiveness) is impossible for someone to overcome.

However, I'm talking about the general situation - the "hard" times that can be foreseen - car repairs, insurance premiums, things of that nature that so often result in a trip to one of these businesses. If someone plans ahead and lives within their means (even if that requires them to get a second job or whatever) they should be able to weather the storms, so to speak, and fall back on a bit of money they have tucked away for situations like these.



Banks are probably making a lot more than hundreds of millions - but that's not really the point. Although I see the worth "Exploit" and "Stealing" thrown around a lot when discussions such as these arise, I can't say that I'm comfortable with either term. The fees, conditions, penalties, ect are all laid out in front of you prior to you being required to pay anything. If I was passing someone on the street and told someone that if they give me $10.00 I'll take it and not give you anything in return, then am I stealing if they decide to give me $10.00? I don't think so, they're simply making a really bad choice. I don't see anything different when it's between companies and individuals either, because those companies are composed of individuals.
Especially publicly traded companies, such as many of the banks out there. Not only do the employees of the bank decide what policies to implement, ultimately, the stockholders do - the hundreds of thousands of people - if not millions of people - that own the company.

People are getting exactly what they sign up for. I don't know why that's a surprise, nor do I understand why suddenly offering a service makes you into a monster. The reason check cashing companies charge those ridiculous rates isn't simply for profit - the profit margins are not as high as one might initially think - though I'm not trying to imply they're small, either - it's because the people they are lending money to have such a low repayment rate. If you lend $100 to 10 people and only 6 of them ever pay you back, you need to charge those six a pretty substantial amount to not only break even but to feed your own family at the end of the day.

One could argue that the reason someone would knowly utilize such an expensive loan is because their credit is so poor they wouldn't qualify for a conventional bank loan. It's a vicious cycle that could easily be broken providing no extraordinary circumstances come about - like huge medical bills or whatever.



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I just brought this up to my wife to see what she would have to say, and she gave a really good example.

When intially dating someone, don't you generally try to at least get a grasp of how they are doing financially? She gave the example of going to a singles bar - if someone approached you and you immediately found out that they were unemployed, overloaded in debt, and had no way to repay it - wouldn't that be a huge red flag?

I can't say that I would actually go out and check a future mate's credit rating, nor would I advocate that, but I would say that it does have an impact. Knowing my wife as I do, I can't say that I wouldn't be with her now if she had really poor credit. However, I can tell you that the chances of us dating as seriously as we did (eventually turning into marriage) is not very likely if I had known from the start that she was financially irresponsible.

Fortunately, I lucked out and we both have similar views on finances :D

NoSoup,

I think I have passed my threadjacking quota for this month. Let's just say we agree to disagree and maybe we'll take this up another time. Suffice it to say I think you are very wrong.

But I will say that although 'stealing' is an emotionally charged, inappropriate word for what the banks do with insufficient funds fees, 'exploit' is a perfectly appropriate word to use. I had an experience with my bank a couple of years ago which makes this plain. And that's not whining. It was corroborated by my bank (a large, popular, national bank) - they did what they could to remove the most amount of money possible out of my bank account and into theirs and they admitted it. It may not have been stealing, per se, but it wasn't ethical, either.

You make some good points and I don't disagree in that context. But the credit score itself doesn't show all that stuff, it's a number and can be affected by multiple factor. Would I get involved with someone you're describing? Not for long likely. But would I can think of several situations where ones credit score would be >550 and not because they wanted a new sports car.

Now if they wanted to spend money they didn't have while in the relationship, yeah that would end the relationship for me.