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aceventura3 05-25-2007 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux
Ace...what you said was that I "seemed to suggest among other things in other threads that Chicago during the 60's-80's did not work with the coruption and cronyism and seemed to imply things are different in Washington."

I made no such judgement about Chicago on this or any other thread (but for the record, I happen to agree with you about past corruption and cronyism at the municipal level) ...my comment was that things are absolutely different in Washington...I will add here...that is because of much more strict personnel/administrative laws at the federal level (ie civil service act, hatch act,etc) regarding the management of government agencies than ever existed in cities like Chicago. That is until those laws and practices were so blatantly violated in the last 6 years at levels never before in my time in Washington.

Your inconvenient triuths (no, falsehoods) are catching up with you.....and this should not be interpreted as calling you "cynical, narrow minded or dumb".....well mabe "narrow minded" but that would only be in response to your "pollyanish" charge :)

One final attempt at communicating reality to you on coruption and cronyism. There is a level of coruption and croynism that exists in government, local, state and federal , these levels of coruption and croynism are not necessarily correlated with the amounts uncovered or brought to light. So you can pretend that the levels of corruption and croynism in the federal government changes based on who is in the White House, and if you do after 20 years in Washington, I would suggest taking another look at what is really happening.

On the other issue, this is what I wrote:

Quote:

I posted a link so readers would have a source other than me. My views about Edwards goes deeper than what was in the blog.

I also gave readers the benefit of listing questions that came to my mind on the Edwards issue, questions that if answered could actually change my point of view. So, instead of addressing the issue and questions that could lead me to a different view of Edwards, criticism is directed towrds me rather than moving the discussion forward.

I honestly think Edwards is a hypocrit. It is my view, right or wrong, but I think it is right. We can discuss the information and facts that lead me to that conclusion or we can comment on how cynical/narrow/minded/dumb/etc/etc. I am. You tend to choose the latter on most issues with me, the discussion goes know where and we leave more entrenched in our views. This supports my premise.
And I seemed to be going along o.k. (starting from post #80 with new info on this topic) without getting personal with you until you commented on my political fantasies.

Quote:

...and it would destroy all of your political fantasies about how federal agencies/executive branch and Congress (that you define and suggest should act as one "living being") actually works.
I am not sure I have ever shared my political fantasies with you or anyone else you know. In my world the comment suggests the target of the comment has a less than intelectual view and is a personal attack where the writer is assuming a position of intellectual superiority. I then responded in-kind, which in hindsight I should have avoided. But like I have said many times, I am imperfect and I am trying to control how I respond to perceived personal attacks. I guess you did not see it as one. Enjoy the weekend.

Rekna 05-25-2007 11:29 AM

There has to be a way to start a perjury trial against AG other than AG initiating it. Otherwise that is a major problem in our justice system. No one is above the law.

dc_dux 05-25-2007 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3
One final attempt at communicating reality to you on coruption and cronyism. There is a level of coruption and croynism that exists in government, local, state and federal , these levels of coruption and croynism are not necessarily correlated with the amounts uncovered or brought to light. So you can pretend that the levels of corruption and croynism in the federal government changes based on who is in the White House, and if you do after 20 years in Washington, I would suggest taking another look at what is really happening.

I think I get it now, ace.

Am I to understand your point to view to be that Reagan, GWH Bush and Clinton had administrations that were or may have been as equally corrupt and unethical as G Bush...it was just not uncovered....even with more investigations of Clinton than any recent President?

Now that is a unique perspective, but it does enable you to hold the Bush administration less accountable for its actions than I do.

Its basically the old "they all did it" defense.:thumbsup:

host 05-25-2007 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux
I think I get it now, ace.

Am I to understand your point to view to be that Reagan, GWH Bush and Clinton had administrations that were or may have been as equally corrupt and unethical as G Bush...it was just not uncovered....even with more investigations of Clinton than any recent President?

Now that is a unique perspective, but it does enable you to hold the Bush administration less accountable for its actions than I do.

Its basically the old "they all did it" defense.:thumbsup:

dc_dux, ace "answered" you in a similar way as in my exchange with him, today on your <a href="http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=118311">"Bush Says What He Means II" thread</a>..... I'm thinking that he cannot "do" specifics...only sweeping generalizations that require nothing to support them. It's like talking to yourself, because "everybody knows", and "some people say" that all politicians check one:

A.) Lie
B.)Cheat
C.)Steal
D.)Are Corrupt


.....so the "degree", the "specifics"....just don't effing matter. Keeping a mistress, accepting a bribe...is no different from transforming the DOJ into a mechanism to suppress votes and civil rights protections, or using the authority of your office to initiate an avoidable and unnecessary war of aggression....they're all crimes, and they "all do it", and that is all that there is to talk about. The rest is just finger pointing......live with it, the political parties and those who they nominate and get elected are equally flawed...indistinguishable.

What are not "indistinguishable", however, are the consequences of the corrupt or illegal acts, themselves. I don't think that ace wants to "go there"

aceventura3 05-26-2007 09:13 AM

I looked at the Goodling testimony to Congress (or to whatever). Her exchange with Issa was of note:

Quote:

ISSA:OK.Well, let's talk about Carol Lam, because Mr. Keller mentioned that members had made these complaints.Well, I'm the member.I'm the member who saw somebody who would not enforce stated national policy and brought this to the attention of Attorney General Ashcroft and then the Attorney General Gonzales.And, quite honestly, I spoke to the president directly on my concerns, and I'm not ashamed of it.

But let's go through Carol Lam.Carol Lam was not a Republican, isn't that correct?

GOODLING:I actually don't know.Someone told me she was an Independent but I never checked her voter registration.

ISSA:Right.Well, I have.It's public in California.So let's go through this.She was a career professional assistant U.S. attorney, right?

GOODLING:Yes.

ISSA:So this administration, even though it has the absolute right to make political appointments based on party registration and party loyalty and loyalty to the president appointed a career professional in San Diego.

GOODLING:Yes, actually.We did that in a lot of districts.

GOODLING:And I supported that.In many cases, career professionals have the best backgrounds for the job.

ISSA:OK.

So you were looking for people who had an obligation to deal with a policy for which the American people had chosen.But you looked to career professionals.

Isn't it also true that when people turned in their resignations or left for any reason, you also looked very often to the existing career professionals inside the U.S. attorney's office?

GOODLING:Yes.

ISSA:So here we have an absolute right to make political appointments based on party registration, party loyalty and support of the president.And yet you chose to be non-partisan very often.And yet that's not being heard here today.

GOODLING:I'm afraid I don't have a comment on that.

ISSA:Well, I think my comment will stand on that.

Last but not least, is there any reason that this group of Republicans and Democrats -- there's not an independent sitting here -- should be surprised that the Clinton administration appointed Democrats and disproportionately made lifetime appointments for federal judges by people who were Democrats.I run into them all the time.

Isn't it, in fact, absolutely the right of a president elected by the American people to choose people who will support his policies and that in fact when you did that you were doing what was your right, and when you chose not to, was actually the exception that should be noted here today?

GOODLING:I think presidents of both parties have the right to pick the people to serve them.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...ny_052307.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux
I think I get it now, ace.

No you don't get it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by host
dc_dux, ace "answered" you in a similar way as in my exchange with him, today on your <a href="http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=118311">"Bush Says What He Means II" thread</a>..... I'm thinking that he cannot "do" specifics...only sweeping generalizations that require nothing to support them.

I start the basis of my views from basic generalities or truisms regarding an issue and go from there. If there is no agreement on the geralities or truisms, in my view there can be no further basis for discussion. For example - world and political leaders use hyperbole to rally support and to motivate their population to act. You don't don't agree with that and therefore think when Bush uses these kinds of statments they are lies. Or, there is a basic level of coruption and cronyism in Washington regarless of who is in the White House. DC, with 20+ years in Washington, thinks there is a correlation with what is uncovered. Given disagreement on those generalities, we will never find agreement on the issue in question.

You don't understand how I construct my views, yet you constantly criticize how I construct my views. I find it interesting how you comment on what you don't understand. Your approach is different, which is o.k. with me. I just find it difficult to follow, and I rarely engage your points. On the few occasions when I have, you avoided the exchange, which is your right, but as is my right, I drew my conclusions.

Most of the topics presented on TFP are interesting. When I initially participate I share my view on the topic. But, when I participate, more times than not, people like you or DC, turn it in to a discussion about me. That is a waste of time. I am not going to change who I am or how I think, my views may change, but I won't. I have no idea what you guys are trying to accomplish, other than to get me to attack back in-kind. At one point DC decided to ignore me, perhaps both of you should, or stay focused on the topic rather than me or my style.

dc_dux 05-31-2007 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna
There has to be a way to start a perjury trial against AG other than AG initiating it. Otherwise that is a major problem in our justice system. No one is above the law.

The DoJ has expanded its internal investigation by the Office of Inspector General and the Office of Professional Responsibilty, both of which operate outside of the direct line reporting to Gonzales.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/fi...hy.specter.jpg

Unlike Congressional oversight investigations, this internal DoJ investigation may lead to specific criminal charges, if the facts point to that necessity.

Rekna 05-31-2007 06:29 AM

Thanks DC, I knew there had to be some part of the department which could check Gonzales without him being able to stop it.

host 05-31-2007 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna
Thanks DC, I knew there had to be some part of the department which could check Gonzales without him being able to stop it.

dc_dux, Rekna.... don't hold your breath...I posted this on 06-16-2005:

Quote:

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=90768
Prosecutor Misconduct In Two Recent High-Profile Cases:
Why It Happens, and How We Can Better Prevent It
By ELAINE CASSEL
----
Thursday, Feb. 12, 2004

...........What about federal disciplinary options when prosecutors go astray? Sadly, they are also weak.

In 2001, the General Accounting Office wrote a stinging report on the Justice Department's Office of Professional

Responsibility. It found that OPR rarely held prosecutors accountable for misconduct. And if OPR turned over a case over

to the state that licensed an errant prosecutor, OPR rarely followed up....

......Did OPR improve itself? It's hard to tell. OPR is supposed to file an annual report, but the last one I found on its

website was for 2001. It is filled with self-congratulatory reports of how well it is doing its job -- but it is also

lacking in specifics. We should all watch closely to see if the Mellin and the Detroit cell prosecutors -- all of whom

plainly committed misconduct -- are disciplined by OPR or not. If not, that in itself will be a strong sign that OPR is

still not doing its job..........
Rekna, yours is the last post in this thread, after I posted this on 10-16-2006:
Quote:

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...51&postcount=6
I'm not going to just walk away from this. The DOJ and it's Office of Professional Responsibility (OPR) have made no public comment of this travesty of justice conspiracy, apparently committed by high government officials. It cost Edwin O. Wilson, 22 years of his life as a potentially unincarcerated man.

Here is a more recent reference:
Quote:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/pr...139812,00.html

Monday, Dec. 12, 2005
A Rogue's Revenge
Disavowed by the CIA and jailed for 22 years, an ex-spy now wants someone to pay
By ADAM ZAGORIN.....
<b>What you should know....the DOJ OPR is still 2 years behind in posting it's investigations report on it's website:</b>
http://www.usdoj.gov/opr/reports.htm
....so no disclosure there on what became of the OPR investigation of what Judge Lynn Hughes descibed in 2003 as,
Quote:

http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache...s&ct=clnk&cd=6
(page 15)
The court has identified about two dozen government lawyers who actively participated in the original non-disclosure to the defense, the false rebuttal testimony, and the refusal to correct it.
Governmental regularity—due process—requires personal and institutional
integrity. CIA attorneys told Assistant U.S. Attorney Ted Greenberg that the Briggs affidavit should not be used as evidence, as then written, and asked him not introduce it. He did.

CIA General Counsel Stanley Sporkin advised that, at minimum,the word
“indirectly” should be removed from paragraph four. Deliberately, knowing the
facts, Greenberg ignored the CIA attorneys' requests and used it. (Wilson Mot. to
Vacate, Ex. 98 ¶¶ 3-5.)
Although it admits that it presented false evidence at Wilson’s trial and
now lists solicitations and services he performed post-termination, the
governmentsaysthat Wilson has not proved that the prosecutors knew that it wasfalse. Persistence in this contention reveals that consistency is valued higher thanfidelity at the Department of Justice.

First, the government says that the prosecutors meant “taskings related to
the gathering of intelligence” where Briggs’s affidavit reads, “asked or requested directly or indirectly to perform or provide services.” (Gov't Answer at 54.)...
In 2004, Stanley Sporkin was hired by Fannie Mae to conduct an internal investigation:
http://whereisthemoney.org/hotseat/stanley/#FannieMaeQ1
http://whereisthemoney.org/hotseat/stanleysporkin.htm

....and last month, BP hired Sporkin as an "ombudsman"
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2006/09/05/...its-ombudsman/

<b>Stanely Sporkin, and 9th District Senior Judge Stephen Trotta, et al, are accused of knowingly withholding evidence that could have prevented Edwin Wilson from serving some...or all of 22 years that he spent in prison.....If democrats win control of the house or of the senate, a high priority should be put on finding the status of the OPR investigation, reported by WaPo's Susan Schmidt, nearly three years ago (see image of article in previous post:
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingt...+Of+Arms+Deale

The integrity of our justice system was identified by Texas federal judge, Lynn Hughes, 41 months ago as broken, and he referred to "about two dozen government lawyers who actively participated in the original non-disclosure to the defense, the false rebuttal testimony, and the refusal to correct it."

Damn it.....the current DOJ, by 35 months (now...on May 31, 2007, it's 42 months...) of it's OPR's silence, is now implicated in this travesty of justice, and coverup. I want to see subpoenas issued to Sporkin, Trott, et al, and I want to see them give testimony, or take the 5th, in a public, congressional hearing....ASAP....while 77 year old Edwin Wilson is still alive, and before any other current or former CIA operatives, or anyone else prosecuted by DOJ for any offense, is fucked over.
</b>
Quote:

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Lega...tory?id=708779
Conviction of Former CIA Agent Overturned on False Affidavit
April 27, 2005

.....Wilson, at age 54, was sentenced in 1983 to 52 years in prison. He was convicted of selling weapons and 20 tons of C-4 plastic explosives to Moammar Gadhafi's Libya. He was also convicted of trying to arrange a contract hit on the prosecutors.

Wilson's defense was that he was still working with the CIA and that the agency knew and approved of everything he was doing with Libya, including the shipment of the explosives.

Prosecutor Ted Greenberg said at the time that Wilson was making up his connection to the CIA. "Mr. Wilson did not work for the CIA or any other part of the intelligence community," he said.

In Houston, Wilson's conviction was overturned by a federal judge, Lynn Hughes, who identified about two dozen government lawyers, including Greenberg, who participated in the use of a false CIA affidavit that sent Wilson to prison and the silence about the affidavit after serious questions were raised about its accuracy. And Hughes minced no words in his opinion.

"In the course of American justice, one would have to work hard to conceive of a more fundamentally unfair process," wrote Hughes, "than the fabrication of false data by the government, under oath by a government official, presented knowingly by the prosecutor in the courtroom with the express approval of his superiors in Washington."

Wilson is a free man now......

.......It would take 20 years for Wilson to prove that the affidavit was false. From his cell in Marion, Wilson began to seek government documents using the Freedom of Information Act. It was 14 years later that the government turned over an internal Justice Department memo, buried in a large stack of other documents, in which Justice Department officials acknowledge the CIA affidavit was possibly false and discuss what to do about it.

"Somebody slipped up and never intended for Mr. Wilson to see this document," Adler said. "I think they forgot that if you put someone in solitary confinement, that they don't have a lot to do all day other than to pore through these documents, and I think Mr. Wilson paid a lot more attention to the materials than the people who were responsible for releasing them at the Justice Department."

Since then, Adler, a former CIA officer himself who was at first skeptical when assigned the case, has discovered dozens of Justice Department and CIA documents that prove the key affidavit in the Wilson case was false and that many in the government knew it. He said one document revealed at least 80 instances of contact between Wilson and the CIA. ...

.....After the guilty verdict, the CIA general counsel, Stanley Sporkin, who had told prosecutors prior to introduction of the affidavit in the trail that it should be amended or not used, again raised a red flag, according to one of the documents Adler and Wilson discovered.

"The CIA drafted up a letter that the agency proposed be sent to Wilson's attorneys disclosing the problem with the affidavit," Adler said. "And again the Justice Department rejected the CIA's suggestion that the letter be sent to Mr. Wilson's lawyer, and so it was never disclosed at that juncture either."

D. Lowell Jensen was in charge of the criminal division of the Justice Department when the decision was first made. He declined to comment on his role in the Wilson case. Adler said he "found a fair number of memos that were addressed to him, or from him, talking about the problem, talking about the decision to keep quiet about this."

Stephen Trott replaced Jensen as the top Justice Department official at the time. Trott says he recalls a meeting on the Wilson case but none of the details.

The Justice Department has now admitted the affidavit used to convict Wilson was false, an innocent error, its lawyers told Hughes.

As for the CIA, they will only say, "It was Mr. Wilson's decision to sell explosives to Libya, and that's why he was sent to jail."

However, Hughes put it another way. "America will not defeat Libyan terrorism by double-crossing a part-time, informal government agent," he wrote.

Wilson says he lost all he had, his family and his wealth, over the 22 years he was in prison. Now living with his brother in Seattle, he says he simply wants to clear his name.
To be sure....the OPR has known about this for seven years and has never reported about it:
Quote:

http://nucnews.net/nucnews/2000nn/0004nn/000424nn.htm
(Scroll half way down page to view this article)

Fallout From a CIA Affidavit
Rogue Ex-Agent Seeks to Overturn '83 Conviction

By Vernon Loeb
Washington Post Staff Writer
<h3>Monday, April 24, 2000; Page A01</h3>

Wilson's court-appointed attorney, former CIA operative David Adler, has filed a motion seeking to have Wilson's conviction overturned on grounds that prosecutors knowingly used false testimony and then failed to disclose it to Wilson's lawyers. <h3>His allegations of prosecutorial misconduct are under review by the Justice Department's Office of Professional Responsibility.</h3>

"I don't think there's any question I wanted disclosure; that's the way I operate," said Stanley Sporkin, the CIA's general counsel at the time, who retired in January after 14 years as a U.S. district judge in Washington. "I probably went further than anybody would have gone--I took it up to the top of the [Justice Department]. This was a Justice Department issue. They were the lawyers in the courtroom. How much can you insist?"

Sporkin denied knowing that the Briggs affidavit was false at the time. The Justice Department also denies that prosecutors knowingly used a false affidavit. But the department now admits in legal filings: "With the benefit of retrospection and in light of all the information now known to the Department, it appears that the statement was inaccurate."

Nonetheless, Justice lawyers argue that the affidavit's inaccuracy should not invalidate Wilson's conviction without evidence that the CIA authorized him to sell C-4 to Libya. The department also contends that its limited disclosure 16 years ago corrected Briggs's "misstatement."....

.....Wilson's attorney also has filed a motion before U.S. District Judge Lynn Hughes in Houston asking that 17 current and former CIA and Justice Department officials be held in contempt, including Sporkin; two top Reagan Justice officials, Stephen S. Trott and D. Lowell Jensen, both now federal judges; Deputy Assistant Attorney General Mark M. Richard, now in his 33rd year with the department; former assistant U.S. attorney E. Lawrence Barcella Jr., now a well-known D.C. defense attorney; and veteran federal prosecutor Theodore Greenberg.

Like Sporkin, Barcella denied knowing that the Briggs affidavit was false at the time. Trott, Jensen, Richard and Greenberg either declined to comment or did not respond to telephone calls.......

.....The Briggs Affidavit: A Crucial Tool for Trial

The Briggs affidavit took shape in Houston on Feb. 3, 1983, three days before Wilson's conviction. This account is based on hundreds of pages of internal government documents introduced in court as part of the motion to overturn Wilson's conviction.

Lead prosecutor Ted Greenberg wanted to shred Wilson's "CIA defense" with an affidavit from Briggs, then the CIA's executive director and now retired. So Briggs and two CIA attorneys, Edmund Cohen and David Pearline, got together to draft it. They agreed at the outset that the Briggs affidavit should state that there were no CIA records authorizing the shipment of C-4 to Libya. They set out to define Wilson's relationship with the CIA as narrowly as possible by using the word "tasking," a specific request for a service.

The three CIA men knew that the agency's own extensive reporting had found that there were many "contacts" with Wilson since his retirement in 1971--social occasions, exchanges of information--but no "tasking." There was one exception in 1972, when the CIA paid Wilson $1,000 for sending an employee to Libya to gather information. The $1,000 payment would be noted in the affidavit.

The three men then decided that a layman might not understand the term "tasking." So the group substituted the word "services." The document now said the CIA never "asked or requested [Wilson] to perform or provide any services for CIA."

Greenberg, seeking to make the affidavit even stronger, rewrote the sentence to read: Edwin P. Wilson was not "asked or requested, directly or indirectly, to perform or provide any services, directly or indirectly, for CIA."

But the tinkering had so expanded the meaning of the sentence that it made the document inaccurate. Wilson alleges that the government lawyers knew they were shading the truth. The Justice Department now concedes only that government lawyers apparently failed to comprehend that they had "stripped the term 'services' of crucial qualifying language connoting an intelligence gathering function."

Shortly after the affidavit was drafted in Houston, CIA general counsel Sporkin, in Langley, told the lawyers that he opposed using it, thinking it confusing and a possible basis for appeal, because Wilson's lawyers would not be able to cross-examine a piece of paper.

But Greenberg disregarded Sporkin's repeated objections, saying he felt the affidavit was essential to winning the case.

Greenberg read the affidavit in court on the final day of trial. The jury retired for the evening after deliberating for four hours.

When jurors reconvened the next morning, they asked the judge to reread the Briggs affidavit. An hour later, they returned a verdict: guilty.

"There were several of us that thought possibly the CIA might have something to do with that, but when they admitted that last affidavit, that convinced me," juror Betty Metzler told United Press International the day Wilson was convicted.

A Debate Over Duty To Disclose Inaccuracy

At the CIA, Mark Tanes wasn't convinced. He worked in the agency's inspector general's office and had been researching Wilson for at least a year to help the prosecutors in Houston.

On Feb. 8, three days after Wilson's conviction, Tanes penned a memo to the CIA's inspector general questioning the accuracy of the Briggs affidavit. Tanes cited several undisclosed CIA requests for services from Wilson.

Within two days, Justice Department attorney Kim Rosenfield sent a memo to her boss, Deputy Assistant Attorney General Mark Richard, entitled, "Duty to Disclose Possibly False Testimony."

The memo noted that case law required a prosecutor to correct false testimony. A new trial was required if the false testimony could "in any reasonable likelihood have affected the judgment of the jury."

At the top of the memo someone wrote: "Plain meaning of services--the affid. is inaccurate."

Spurred by the memos from Tanes and Rosenfield, Sporkin's office quickly drafted a letter to Wilson's lawyer disclosing problems with the Briggs affidavit.

Sporkin, the CIA's top lawyer, forwarded the draft letter to Richard at the Justice Department. Sporkin pushed to have the matter resolved before Wilson's sentencing, but noted in a memo he placed in his own files that Richard "indicated there was very little sentiment in DOJ to do anything about the Briggs' declaration."

Richard, often described as a pillar of the Criminal Division, then alerted his boss, Assistant Attorney General D. Lowell Jensen, now a senior U.S. district judge in Northern California.

"As for my own views, I think we must make a disclosure--either to the judge or the defense attorney," Richard counseled in a handwritten note to Jensen dated Feb. 22. "A third option is to disclose to both."

In April, the CIA completed its final review of Wilson's services and sent the Justice Department a detailed list of 80 contacts between Wilson and CIA personnel after 1971. Twice, a CIA officer had asked Wilson to provide antitank weapons for a sensitive operation. On another occasion, the CIA had negotiated the sale of two salt-water distillation units to Egypt through Wilson's firm.

The CIA's associate deputy director, Theodore G. Shackley, a legendary operative known as the "Blond Ghost," had asked Wilson for a list of his Libyan contacts. Shackley also had met with Wilson in the late 1970s to see if Wilson could acquire a Soviet surface-to-air missile system.

By midsummer, Richard wrote Jensen that "disclosure is, unfortunately, necessary. I suspect I am in the minority."

In undated handwritten notes by an unidentified participant at a CIA-Justice meeting, Jensen is quoted as saying the government had an "underlying obligation of disclosure to court."

Jensen left the Justice Department and was replaced on Aug. 1, 1983, by Stephen Trott. And the thinking on disclosure shifted.

Another handwritten note from an Aug. 8 meeting states that disclosure, if deemed necessary, should be made only in the government's reply to Wilson's appeal, not to Wilson or his attorney.

This would likely ensure that the appeals court would "treat the issue without much attention," the note says. Such disclosure "at worst" would result in only a "limited remand" to the trial court, not a full reversal of Wilson's conviction.

It is not clear who decided to limit disclosure to the appellate brief. Wilson's lawyer alleges it was Trott.

The eventual disclosure was brief and perfunctory: two instances beyond the Briggs declaration in which "the CIA enlisted Wilson's assistance in business transactions." There was nothing about the list of 80 contacts. The appeals court upheld Wilson's conviction without comment.

The letter drafted to Wilson's attorney was never sent.......

....The Paper Trail

Government documents obtained by lawyers for former CIA agent Edwin P. Wilson show the evolution of the government's position, presented in a Houston federal courtroom in 1983, that Wilson was not asked to do work for the agency after his retirement in 1971.

Feb. 3, 1983: Affidavit by CIA official Charles A. Briggs denying Wilson did work for the agency.

Feb. 8, 1983: Memo from CIA employee Mark Tanes showing that Wilson did do work for the agency.

Feb. 10, 1983: Memo from Justice Department attorney on issues raised by the Tanes memo.

Feb. 17, 1983: CIA general counsel Stanley Sporkin seeking a quick resolution.

Feb. 18, 1983: Letter drafted by Justice Department informing Wilson's lawyer of problems with the Briggs affidavit. The letter was never sent.

Feb. 22, 1983: Note from Deputy Assistant Attorney General Mark Richard recommending disclosure.

Aug. 8, 1983: Notes of a CIA-Justice meeting in which the benefits of a limited disclosure are discussed.

January 2000: Government's response to Wilson's motion for a new trial.
Between 1981 and 1983, during the period that the above "paper trail" documents that the Wilson "cover up" was happening, David Addington, now Cheney's COS was CIA general counsel to Stanley Sporkin....

dc_dux 05-31-2007 10:28 AM

Host...I would agree with you if not for the fact that the OPR and IG at DoJ have two high profile committee chairs breathing down their back and who will continue to act concurrently with the DoJ internal investigations.

Particularly as a result of Goodling's testimony, in which she:

* admitted breaking the law (50 times?) and infered in some cases it was with the knowledge of superiors
Rep. Scott:
“Rules? Laws? You crossed the law on civil service laws — You crossed the line on civil service law, is that right?”

Goodling:
“I believe I cross the law — line — but I didn’t mean to.”

Rep. Johnson:
“Would you say less than 50 or more than 50?”

Goodling:
“I hesitate to give you an estimate because I can’t remember. I don’t think that I could have done it more than 50 times but I don’t know.”

Rep. Jerry Nadler:
“Were any of your superiors in the Justice Department aware… that you were asking such kinds of questions either for Assistant US Attorneys or for career positions at all?”

Goodling:
“Um, in some cases, when, relating to immigration judges (career, non-political positions)....
* accused Gonzales of lying to the committee
Rep. Davis: “General Gonzales testified that he never saw the US Attorneys list, the list of terminated US Attorneys, is that accurate to your knowledge Ms. Goodling?”

Goodling: “Um, I believe he did see a list.”

Rep. Davis: “So if General Gonzales testified that he didn’t see the list, you believe that would be inaccurate testimony on his part don’t you?”

Goodling: “I believe he saw a list.”

Rep. Davis: “So therefore you believe it would be inaccurate testimony?”

Goodling: “Yes.”
* admitted to having files at DOJ from her opposition research days at the RNC (possibly related to the voter suppresion tactics used in 04 and 06)
Rep. Waters:
“Do you have files that may have information in it that you gathered during your research, using your opposition research skills?”

Goodling:
“There would be some files, yes.”

Rep. Waters:
“Where would those files be?”

Goodling:
“At the Department of Justice.”

These and other issues are far from settled at DoJ, whether it be though internal investigations or overisght hearings.

Rekna 08-27-2007 07:55 AM

That took a lot longer than it should have.....

ottopilot 08-29-2007 06:38 PM

edit

aceventura3 08-30-2007 07:32 AM

I think he will get a 7 figure book deal. I bet his memory will improve after he gets his first advance payment.

JohnBua 09-03-2007 04:51 PM

What did he do wrong? Why was he being grilled in the first place?


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