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No sex please, we're daddy's little girls (news link)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070322...y_070322082138
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This further enforces the idea that marriage is nothing but transferring a woman from her father's control to her husband's control. It further enforces the idea that virginity is a positive thing - not all societies do this. In fact, I wonder today, how many people do really, seriously, value virginity until marriage. With statistics like increases in cohabitation and decreases in marriage rates what good is a vow of chastity until marriage? Lastly, I'm pretty sure my sociology text books point out that partners or relationships before marriage is healthy. It would be interesting to see the marriage rates, divorce rates, re-marriage rates on the girls that attend these "balls." |
Creepy!
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Yep, that's a little creepy, sexuality is something that should be explored and be open about, not repressed.
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Why does the disgusting thought of patriarchal ownership of a girl's vagina come to mind(and the subsequent parading of said ownership)?
/me shudders |
It's an interesting concept... It's not as if any of the girls could disagree with their father's suggestion of a purity ball.
"Hey sweetie, we're going to take everyone in your life and announce that you're going to be a good little virgin until you're married! If you don't agree, your daddy will think you're a dirty godless slut" I'm so entirely against teaching only abstinence. |
I agree, it's creepy. Especially the part about rings. Personally I think people should spend less time talking about chastity and more time talking about the real issues.
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abstinence only education is incredibly stupid...
here in Lubbock they only do abstinence only sex ed... and weve got really high rates of stds and pregnancy amongst the highschool population. |
As JStrider said the rates of teen pregnancy & stds is alarmingly high, so I wont judge someone for trying to help their teenage daughters. I didnt approach this the same way with my daughter, I had endless discussions with her about sex, drugs, higher education, politics, etc, etc, often playing the devils advocate, so she could see all sides of the issues. I left her to make up her own mind on the best course of action.
The sad part is the guilt these girls must feel when they cant live up to this vow they've made. If 88% end up having sex, thats alot of guilt. |
I think in theory it is a good idea. I for one am a christian, but at the same time I think they may be taking this a bit too far.
I think they have the best of intentions, but at the same time, they pushing the pendulum in the wrong direction.Just my two cents worth. |
I've been with several chastity girls in my time (handsome pastors son with a mischievous streak = like a moth to a fire). Frankly, I think that the whole vow ultimately benefits teenage boys because it creates repressed, sex crazed teenage girls. Very few things excite the libido for some people like forbidden fruit. It's obviously ultimately useless as a tool to control or stop sexuality. I have to wonder at the intellect of any parent who would adopt such an idea as realistic.
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I saw something on tv about this, and its definetely creepy.
I went to a strict christian school, and you wouldnt beleive the number of those people that ended up with kids and not going to college. these type of things might work well for wealthy high-end christians, but real, intelligent sex ed is the only thing that will help the average jack and jill. |
I see these gals getting married very early in life ;)
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And people wonder why the divorce rate is as high as it is. How the hell are you supposed to know what you expect in a sexual partner (that is part of a marriage, if you ask me) if you've only had one? What if they're wretched?
And I'm not in the least bit surprised that this is occuring in Colorado Springs. We've got the biggest clusterfuck of Focus on the Family, the Air Force Academy, and Fort Carson soldiers.. conservatism, fundamentalism, and "male possession" ideals abound. It's interesting, really, living in a city known for its' batshit crazy organizations... Oh and.. welcome back cellophanedeity! been a while |
Well I am split sort of. I think this is creepy and way goes beyond I think acceptable.
I can state growing up from an orthodox Jewish home, that the belief and norm of the community was (and is) no ding with no ring. We did not have rings, we did not have a ceremony vowing to protect etc... A lot of it actually entails two aspects of Jewish believe [1] having sex with someone (but you would need witnesses that saw you 2 go in to the room, and other stuff) actually can technically cause marriage (it is technical and no desire to go in to it beyond the basic concept). [2] You can not waste your seed. So I have no issue with the idea of trying to encourage this, but I have to agree the whole concept of how they are going about it is so wrong. And also it only covers girls and no guys. So I guess in the end I think they are wrong just because they do it only for the girls and because the whole ceremony of it just is wrong. |
I'm sorry but what does having sex or not having sex have to do with Christianity?
I am all for educating your children and playing devil's advocate the way that Dave Matrix suggests. To me, the creepy sex factor aside for the moment, what the "Purity Ball" seems to be doing is training the daughter for a life of servitude. First her sexuality will be "pledged" to her father and later her father will give that pledge to her husband. Symbolic yes, but it still smacks of ownership. What are these people teaching their children but how to own and control women... and make no mistake their sons, if they have them, are taking note of this as well. |
I agree with Charlatan. The basic idea seems sound enough, but the whole wedding atmosphere along with ring exchange swerves a little close to the pedophilia line for my tastes. Maybe it's because I just finished reading something about Warren Jeffs, but I have a basic problem with the whole "child bride" concept in general.
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This goes a little beyond creepy, if you ask me. I agree with The Jazz. As soon as I read the article, I got a pedophilia vibe. While I'm sure that there is no actual incest (kinda defeats the purpose, not?) it still leaves that aftertaste. I also agree 100% with Charlatan. This couldn't get any closer to "ownership" unless Daddy actually signed over the title with original miles.
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And as far as the Purity Ball... Disappointing to me, but not surprising to me. I'm sure in the father and daughter's eyes it doesn't reflect ownership, they are probably making a pact with God, but in essence it is what it is. I'm sure the boys in that family are told the same ideals, not to have sex, never to masturbate, but buying a boy jewelry and a nice outfit is borderline inappropriate so why not make spectacles of their daughters. The only good thing to come out of such a pact is the girl will learn to give great head! |
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"What do you mean she didn't bleed on the first night--look at those wedding sheets again! No I can't give you your dowry back, I already spent it!" Also note: "The father makes a pledge that he is going to keep his mind pure and be faithful to her mother and there is also a time when there is a conversation about putting the right kinds of things in your mind, such as the father not using pornography," Leslee Unruh, founder of Abstinence Clearinghouse, a leader in the so-called purity movement, told AFP in describing the balls. So they get in two sexually-controlling punches at the same time. WTH? "Abstinence Clearinghouse"?!?! How about we start working in a clitorectomy too while we're at it? |
creepy... The most relevant comment I can add is that after my mother's divorce and when she started dating, she gave me this advice: Explore your sexuality before your married. If she had, she may have realized just how fucked up my father was... (may he rot in hell!).
Btw, I am happily married and have no issue with the fact that my wife was not a virgin when we wed. |
I grew up in Colorado Springs and signed not one, but TWO virginity pledges (signed the second one before the purity balls began). I was a virgin until I was 23 but 'lost' (where did it go??) my virginity before I got married. I don't regret it at all either. The funny thing is, my parents were very open and frank about all things sexual growing up and were kind of stunned when I told them I had signed a virginity pledge. (I didn't tell them about the second one)
While abstinence isn't out and out wrong, it is wrong and dangerous to hold it up as the pinnacle of all things good and right. |
While I personally don't think their is anything wrong with premarital sex, there apparently is a large section of the US population that doesn't agree with me. I don't really think it is anyone else's place to tell somebody how to raise their childen. Some people raise thier kids to be racists and bigots everywhere, in the grand scheme of things I think there are worse values they could be trying to instill upon thier daughters than chastity.
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Although I agree with you, do you not find it frustrating that the religious right feel the need to push their agenda onto everyone else? And I'm not talking about any one specific country or group. I'm not religious, I am however agnostic, but I just strongly believe that religious has no place in government. |
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However...the government is not involved in this. Meaning, that it is not government sponsored, nor sanctioned. This is a societal issue. Albeit a strange and creepy one. At the very least, I feel, this is going to place an undue amount of pressure, stress, and guilt on these girls, as they grow up and mature. Sure, it may be a fun party now. Fancy dresses, tuxedos, ballrooms, crystal chandoliers, limousines...all right out of Cinderella. But for those that take it seriously? For those that understand the implications of it all? I think that they're in for a world of emotional hurt down the road. |
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Yes I find this ceremony without merit and think that ultimately it does more harm than good ([Agree]Bill O'Rights' last post[/agree]). However, it doesn't interfere with my life in any way and they are well within their rights to do so. So, If they want to parade their kids around as champions of virginity and God, then I say leave them be. Do I think it makes them bad parents with unrealistic goals, which put unnecesary pressure on their childen? Yes, but their aren't any laws against that. |
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Out of curiosity, you say that you don't think it is anyone else's place to tell other how to raise their children, do you have a line that once crossed we should interfere, or is it anything goes? |
More on Purity Balls, By Jennifer Baumgardner/February 2007 issue of Glamour Magazine, posted on the Generations of Light website:
http://www.generationsoflight.com/ge...html/News.html Quote:
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And meanwhile the mother stays home, silent, her precious virginity long since bought, paid for, and disposed of in the approved manner... Excuse me, I have to wipe the foam from my lips. |
Sultana, after reading all of that article, I still can't get the echos of Warren Jeffs out of my head. Everything about it screams "underaged bride" at me. I know that's not the purpose of these ceremonies (far from it), but imagery that they're using is just too much for me.
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Side note, because I am NOT DONE ranting about this...Why is virginity something to be taken or lost; rather than shed, given (sometimes used, but not nearly as often), put away, etc. Even in language women don't have power or authority over their own sexuality! Although it is their responsibility to take it. But it doesn't come naturally.
I'm so riled up about this, I should stop. For now. |
I like what Bill Maher said about this over the weekend, "If you’re slipping a ring on your daughter’s finger and eating wedding cake, trust me, you’re plotting to fuck the babysitter."
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No emotional problems in the making there. No sir. :rolleyes: Ok...for real, now...I can see wanting to remain a virgin until you are married. I really can. But, to not even kiss until your wedding day?!? Something is very very wrong. Quote:
Why do they have to attach such...constraints on it. Why do they have to make it so damn bizarre. A 4 year old? Signing a pledge? My 4 year old can barely tell me how many kids were in his daycare class today. A 25 year old? Signing the same pledge? Time to start thinking for yourself, Honey. Or...maybe she is...I dunno. Hell, it's almost cult like. It'd make a nice bad "B" movie, for air at 2:00am. |
You know what really helps a woman grow up confident? Not having an insane father.
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It's too bad your daughter won't grow up confident. ba-dump-bump. Thank you, I'll be here all week. |
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touche |
Well, I agree with a lot of people. One of my first thoughts when I saw the picture to go with the article on Yahoo was that of pedophile creepiness -- or look -- another topic for a Law and Order: SVU. I think this scares me more than those "Jesus Camps" that there's been numerous articles (and a movie?) about.
I think my biggest problem with this is that there is nothing for mothers or sons. What about mother-daughter relationships? To me this whole thing screams of an attempt to return to virgin brides, dowries and marriage equaling "till death do us part." I suspect that this, at least in part, is to combat the divorce statistics and decreasing marriage statistics. People aren't marrying as soon - or as often. But divorce rates aren't as scary.* The fact that religion is part of this..brainwashing..err.. teaching isn't really even the point/or problem in my mind. It's just that it's no surprise this is coming from fundamentalist Christians. That and it's further proof that the mainly Christian society of America has some catching up to do. The concept of virgin equaling clean and pure and better is something that people need to stop believing in. |
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The whole thing is very creepy and there something in me that thinks this has incestuous overtones even. Too much, "Daddy's little girl" |
quick response to bor: i did some poking around and couldn't find the exact numbers / connections, but in as far as government's role, i think the concern is that some of the groups helping to set these things up (e.g. Generations of Light) are receiving federal funding for abstinence-only efforts and faith-based initiatives.
For creepy, here's the Pledge: I, (DAUGHTER’S NAME)’S FATHER, CHOOSE BEFORE GOD TO COVER MY DAUGHTER AS HER AUTHORITY AND PROTECTION IN THE AREA OF PURITY. I WILL BE PURE IN MY OWN LIFE AS A MAN, HUSBAND AND FATHER. I WILL BE A MAN OF INTEGRITY AND ACCOUNTABLITY AS I LEAD, GUIDE AND PRAY OVER MY DAUGHTER AND MY FAMILY AS THE HIGH PRIEST IN MY HOME. THIS COVERING WILL BE USED BY GOD TO INFLUENCE GENERATIONS TO COME. |
Anyone else disturbed by the fact that many of these girls are coerced to pledging when they are not even preteen? I knew what sex was at a VERY young age but I wouldn't have been able to comprehend or understand the pledge being made. I highly suspect most of these girls are going through with it because it's a dress party all for them. Attention attention attention....I would have wanted that much attention when I was younger. I read that and immediately thought the girls just love the attention.
I've seen similar kinds of things when growing up. A church my mom goes to would have wednesday night service and they would have a pledge every wednesday. I was maybe 13, 14 at the time and thought the whole thing was kind of weird then. I saw people pledging to be virgins that were in fact not virgins. I remember the youth pastor asking me why I would not pledge. I think I said something along the lines of why would I make a promise I can't predict I can keep. To me back then I didn't want to dissapoint anyone by breaking any promises and the only way to do that was to not make any. As it was my mom was the type that preached "no sex till marriage" Quite honestly I have no idea why as all three of us kids have different dads and were born out of wedlock and has talked of cheating....whole other story... I chose to wait till I found someone that I really truly loved and thought I could spend the rest of my life with. I just wanted my first time to be with someone that loved me and wanted me. I was 18. What makes me sick is alot of these people are having their daughters go through these ceremonies and do not educate them on safe sex or what it intails. My mom never once had a sex talk with me. The only things I knew I had read or heard from friends. Thank goodness for Cosmo magazine back then. When my mom discovered I had been sleeping with Alpha phi she flipped and exclaimed "HOw could you?! I never got to have the sex talk with you?!, Don't you dare tell your sister because she'll want to do it too" Little late to be telling an 18 year old about sex? Nevermind the fact my younger sister had already been sexually active for a year or two before me. They found out she was having sex when she became knocked up her junior year of high school. Another thing that bothers me is the lack of mention of boys staying celebate. Girls are not owned. I loathed being treated like that when I was growing up and hate to see other young girls go through the same thing. The whole thing is archaic. |
Personally, I don't think sex is treated with enough reverence and respect by enough people these days anyway.
But, there is a fine line between treating sex with respect, and being prudish and sexually repressed. Both are very destructive and will adversely affect relationships and how you interact with people, particularly members of the opposite sex. Like everything else, it's all about a healthy balance. Our sexual urges are something we really can't deny. Wanting to fuck is nothing to be ashamed of. But how we go about it and accepting our responsibilities and consequences is another side of the coin we always have to keep in mind. But is that really different from any other facet of life? If people choose a path, it should be just that, a choice. What these farthers are asking of their daughters is not to choose, but to blindly comply because that's what their customs dictate. I don't like the idea of teenagers running around fucking anything that moves without really considering the consequences of what they're doing. But I don't like the idea of them being guilt tripped into shutting off their sexuality either. Sexuality is a very personal thing, and people will awaken to it when they're good and ready. I hate this idea that certain parts of society make you feel like a prude for not having sex enough or early enough, and other parts of society are the polar opposite. Oh and it shits me no end that no one will bat an eyelid to promiscuous males, yet god fucking forbid we have too many sexually independent women who do the same thing. To be honest, what business is it of anyone elses unless you choose it to be? I will back peoples choices 100% as long as they're comfortable with what they're doing, know what they're doing, and can handle whatever consequences there may be, oh, and what they're doing isn't hurting anyone else. |
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In this case, I don't think they are abusing their daughters, just indoctrinating them into a different value system then the one that I function in. I guess it boils down to myself failing to see that this process is inherently harmful. The potential exists, but there also exists a great potential that these girls will not suffer in any way. People live long happy lives all over the globe as fundamental Christians; reasonable people live this life. For myself, it's weird, it's not the best parenting strategy, but just because it doesn't work for me doesn't mean it doesn't work well for other people. Maybe I'm just too much of a relativist. Ultimately, I believe there will come a point in these girls lives when they realize that they do not have to adopt the same belief system as their parents, they are free to make their own choices and are responsible to do so. That could only be because that's what happened to me, and I chose a different path than many of those in my family would have chosen for me. I do not feel I was harmed in any way by a similar value system, in a way I believe I benefited because it enabled me to avoid things I was not mature enough to handle. I also benefited from a solid sexual education and parents who didn't use religion as an tool to avoid important issues because they should not have come up anyway. It's unfortunate that there won't be the same education for many of these girls. |
First this made me gag, then it made me laugh. A two for one...
And not only that, it's a crock of shit ritual that don't mean a goddamned thing...or maybe that's just me talking shit after a couple glasses of wine. Purity is so overrated. |
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Sex is in the eye of the beholder (owe, my eye!).
Some people consider it the end of all spirituality, some consider it a great raunchy way to spend a Saturday night. It's just like anything in life, you have to discover it's meaning to you. |
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What I find creepy are some of the responses in this thread. I wonder how many actually have children??? Its easy to judge when you have no frame of reference. |
and you know mixed, i think i like you more and more as time goes by.
dave: which "groups" are you talking about? some den of unwashed acid-dropping turtle-fucking profligates and whores? i don't know, i'm down in the middle of the bible belt, and i've run across my share of just-out-of-highschool-singing-in-the-choir girls, daddy is a deacon, mommy plays the organ....and she's dropping adderol and taking on group sex. not to mention little old me. i find the ceremonial nature of this creepy, and the passing of oaths, the misogynistic nature, etc. someone wants to raise their kids traditionally, i could give less than a shit. but this is just fucked up. i'd be just as creeped out if some newage hippy group had a ceremony where they celebrated their daughter's first period by having her promise to all respect her sexual nature and to be open minded and sexually exhuberant throughout her life. i don't have any problem with that philosophy either, but you don't need the ceremony, and it certainly doesn't need to seem a mock up of marriage. |
Take your pick of 'groups', there are plenty to go around. As I said before I don't think the oath is a wise practice, but they're not my children either. Plenty of adults take oaths in churches then break them a few years later, so I'd have to say its better to just say yes or no, than take an oath.
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I'm interested to know which "groups" he's talking about, too.
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ok dave: i'll get the ball rolling. how about the boy scouts? they send their kids out in the wilderness for a weekend alone with older men. no cell phones, no contact.
my old church group (methodist youth foundation) used to throw church retreats. the older kids always brought marajuana and alcohol and fucked their brains out at night. the youth brigade for oral sex? |
The names arent important. The point I was trying to get across was that at least Christian Fundamentalists take an ongoing interst in their children while others do not. I may not agree with their methods but I respect them for trying to do the right thing. Wait, I already said that..........guess you missed that.
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We read it, but you are trying to move attention from the fundamentalists elsewhere to what you've supposed are worse groups. Who are they, and how are they worse? I'm sure you'd be at least inquisitive if I were to take attention away from an atheist group by making a vague statement about Christian 'groups' without any evidence.
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I don't think that anyone here has criticized the basic idea of parental interest inherent in this kind of ceremony. What I think people are being critical of is the trappings of the ceremony itself and is something that DaveMatrix has already conceded is problematic. As far as the "other groups" comment, I ask DaveMatrix as well as everyone else to please point out a large group complete free the possibility of teen pregnancy and/or drug addiction. In my mind such a thing doesn't exist, especially since results vary from child to child in individual families. In other words, your results may vary. |
no, you're talking about theoretical constructs. my opinion. i would wager these "people" are like any other "group." some of them take an ongoing interest in the their kids...but some of them do this ceremony for show, some of them do it to fit in with their friends, some of them do it because they are depressed and need this kind of shit to fill their lives, some of them do it to fit into their social groups. just like any other group. they're people.
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Most people wouldn't home school their children, they're more than happy to get them out of the house for 8 hours a day. The FC's are more than happy to spend as much time as necessary to raise their children according to their beliefs. I personally don't think this makes for a very well rounded individual. They lead a secluded life, then are thrust into the real world as adults. Once again, they're not my children though..... How many of you actually have children??? |
dave,
based only on what i know about the posters here, and looking back at this thread, i would conservatively put it at about a 50/50 mix of those with children, and those without. i know will, jazz, mixed, bor, charlatan and i think kurty are parents. |
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I think the problem we've been discussing is that the "right thing" is so badly warped it's worse. |
I have three children. All girls. 20, 18 and 8.
I'll be happy to answer any questions about their habits and upbringing. :) |
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I have two kids. A 19 year old daughter, and a 4 year old son.
I, also, will be happy to answer any questions about their habits and upbringing. :) |
This isnt 20 questions, its a message board. If you have an opinion then please state it.
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I guess the question would be, would I rather have uninvolved parents, or parents who try to control my libido? The former, please.
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A.) I'm perfectly aware that this is a message board. I help to moderate it.
B.) I believe, unless I'm very much mistaken, that I have voiced my opinion. C.) I'm responding to a question that you asked. Twice, as a matter of fact. |
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You've made a bold statement here: that some nameless groups whose only defining characteristic seems to be that they aren't Fundamentalist Christians allow their children to basically ruin their own lives. We've asked which groups your referring to; you've refused, saying it's irrelevant. I'll accept that answer at face value and move on. As far as the misinterpretation of this message goes, I think you should understand how easy it was to make, especially with how you phrased it originally. Again, you're using very broad brush strokes to paint what could be very large groups of people so it's difficult for anyone to tell what you're actually talking about since you're not willing to define your terms. I happen to agree that some of the fundamentalists are doing what they think is the right thing, but I have to wonder why they think including all of these creepy marriage metaphors is necessary. I also think that other fundamentalists involved in this movement may have ulterior motives. Not necessarily nefarrious ulterior motives, though. |
D) BOR has a really hot avatar. Seriously, it's almost distracting.
Wait a second. The blanket statement was made, we asked for clarification, then you said we misunderstood you? That's why we were asking for clarification, which you still haven't provided. |
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I swear to god (sic), it seems that best anyone can do anymore to defend something extreme is to bring up the other extreme. Doesn't make for very compelling arguments. note: this is not directed at willravel...just bouncing off his post. |
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To provide an adequate defense to this ritual, I think one needs more than just, "well, it's better than letting your kids run wild, snort heroin and get knocked up at 14!" Although, to be fair, a few others on this thread have done more than that. Guess, I'm just jibin' DaveMatrix a little bit. Hi, Dave :wave: Especially, since he seems to be playing the devil's advocate here and not particularly in support of the ritual. |
As I've said before, I wonder how people can judge others when they have no frame of reference, thus the question about children. So great, you have children, a frame of reference and you aren't going by on your own childhood to argue a point, that you know nothing about.
I'm not sure exactly whay you want, stats on teen preganancy or drug abuse??? The net is full of stats, feel free. You want the name of a group that has these problems??? They all do...whats your point??? |
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So, there are no specific "groups" that let their children run wild, explore their sexuality, experiment with drugs. It's isolated to an "individual" family choice.
Right? Look...I applaud the fundamentalist evangelical (whatever label you want to attach) Christian's active approach in the upbringing of their children. It's to be commended. I do, however, find the methodology of it to be a little...distubing, at best. |
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Well, I don't claim it is pedophilic, but it is attempted patriarchal domination of the vagina. Definitively.
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You are completely entitled to your opinion and I can understand how you could view that as such. I will have to agree to disagree on this one.
I may be predisposed to argue the virtues of constraint when teenagers are involved. A dear friend of mine has a 20 year old daughter who is soon to be giving birth to her second child. This baby is underweight for its age, and will soon be delivered caesarean because the first child was. I know the mother has experimented with numerous drugs and has no maternal instinct because of her drug use. She was spoiled as a child, given everything she wanted, never worked a day in her life, and mommy paid her way, and still is, for everything. The father of the first child is a bum, wont work or support the child in any way. He's black, she's white, which will only make things harder on the child, because the father is absolutely positive that all white people are satan, and has convinced the mother that this is so (although she is white, strange huh???)Both of her parents worked and spent little time with her, and I suppose that phsycologically speaking she is looking for some type of male acceptance or love, which she never received from her father. She doesn't even know who the father of the baby is, it could be one of many. Sorry for the rant, it may help you understand my position.......or not. Oh well, at least I tried to explain. Sorry for the syntax and other errors, I'm not much on proof reading. |
I don't think anyone here is against advocating constraint of teenage sexuality per se. I think most here would agree that education and communication are much better tools than a "purity ceremony".
I can even agree that these people, as misguided as I believe them to be in their execution, think they are doing the right thing by their daughters. To strip it down to its essence this is abstinence vs. education. In my mind, abstinence is an unreasonable goal when you are dealing with teenagers. Education and communication are the key (depending on your point of view that educational component can also include a big dose of, "having sex before age 'X' is a bad idea). Two more points: 1) The key, as always, is balance. Too much control of kids is just as bad as too little. Both ways lead to rebelliousness. 2) The subtext of my belief in education and communication is involvement and interaction with my kids. It may be suggested that one needs to home school and spend every waking minute with your kids, but I would argue there is more than one way to raise a kid. |
1,400 purity balls....
Its not like this is sweeping the nation. Furthermore, at age 11 most girls (especially in conservative homes) still think boys have cooties, so of course they won't mind going to a ball and promising they will never have sex.. after at that age sex is gross. I wonder how many of the dads keep their side of the deal. |
What a great way to allow people to practice breaking vows!
If they can break them at such a young age it makes marriage vows so much easier to ignore! (The comments above were strictly facetious and not meant to offend, please laugh heartily and smile.) |
Sad thing, Sage, is I don't think you are far off the truth.
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Yes. I think that's a rather cogent observation, LS.
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Sometimes dry wit and a sharp tongue are far too close to the truth. :(
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Yay! Now I've almost got enough points for that set of Ginsu knives I've been wanting. :hyper:
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Orrrrrrr...you take those points...and trade them for what's behind door number 3!!
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If my dad had done this with me.....I'd have been creeped out. I was raised in a very conservative area and although I was never baptized...I thought sex before marriage was wrong (until I moved away to college). This STILL would have creeped me out.
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I thought about commenting on this thread before, but I ignored it. I do, however, have something to say now: No one should care how someone else decides to raise their children unless it breaks the law. If you don't agree with it, then raise your children differently. What's odd to you isn't odd to someone else and vice versa. It's simple, really.
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The State exists to enforce the will of the people when the people are incapable of enforcing it via non-coercive means. There is no inherent correleation between legality and goodness, nor a lack of responsibility for the common citizen to offer judgment on community standards issues. Just because it's not illegal for someone to teach their kids that women are objects and property doesn't mean the rest of us have to stand by twiddling our thumbs until Johnny grows twisted enough to rape the shit out of someone's daughter. Not that it matters- she was an unpure fornicating whore that didn't know her place. You can preach a morality thats not illegal with little fear of State interference. And we can tell you (and your kids) that your not illegal morality is fucked in the head. It'll work itself out... unless, of course, we all go "Well it's not illegal... so I guess it must be A-Okay!" |
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Nothing illegal about that either. |
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That'll be all I'm going to say on the subject. |
Again, I am not going to suggest that someone should make a law against the people or ban them from their practice. At the same time, I am not going to give them a pass just because they think they are doing right by their children.
What they are doing borders on abusive behaviour... borders on it. I do focus on my family and I would hope that the example I provide will prevent my children and anyone who cares to learn from my example that the sorts of behavior exhibited by the parents in the OP are not only not necessary but wrong-headed in the worst way. |
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Female types are valuable for more than (and mainly other than) the little patch of real-estate between their legs. If someone wants to teach their kids that, sure, hey, it's not illegal, but it sure is fucked up. Quote:
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if these people are so gungo-ho about chastity, why not make the young men also take a pledge. The whole "boys will be boys" crap is something i am sick of hearing and if you want people to be "sexually pure", well besides with lesbians, you need more than just a girl for sex to happen...they use*gasp* guys to create "sex". I am just sick of the whole only go apeshit crazy to keep the female pure and not doing the same thing to the male.
patriarchal religious double standard. bah. BTW-i dont believe in any of this abstinace only sex ed, some people will have the sex and they will be unprepared for the consequesnces if they don'nt know much about the protection and the cotraception, its not good to only hear one side of the story.. |
Yes, a ceremony with a young man pledging his chastity to his mother might be interesting.
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I would pay admission to see that.
But the mom has to be holding a butcher knife. :D |
I'm going to go against my original word and make one more reply.
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Have you ever talked to someone who has taken this vow to be able to make the assumptions that you are now? I'd be willing to bet that you haven't. Quote:
I'll answer the question for you: No, there's not. Simply because you don't agree with the way other parents decide to raise their children doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with their methods. Hell, there could be something wrong with your methods of parenting (Assuming you are a parent). |
Now Infinite Loser, how dare you go against popular opinion. You're supposed to say 'thats creepy' like everyone else. Fall in line like a good little soldier and maintain the status quo.
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I've slept with all 88%
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