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Captain Morgan's Ship

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Tully Mars, Aug 9, 2011.

  1. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Very Tilted

    Location:
    Yucatan, Mexico
    [​IMG]

    Being a diver I'm always interested when they find another pirate or any old ship wreck. No I don't think I'm going to be floating around the bottom, riding a gentle current and stumble across a chest full of treasure. But I love the history and due to the age of the wreck I think there is a serious chance they will indeed find treasure in those "cargo boxes and chests." Or of course there's always the possibility they'll find them full of dinner ware or other mundane cargo. But even dinner ware from the mid 17th century would be a treasure.

    Now be honest- how many people thought Captian Morgan was just a brand of rum?

    How much do you know about pirate history? And no watching Johnny Depp play Cap't Jack Sparrow will not help you learn about pirate history.

    This from Time magazine-

     
  2. sbscout

    sbscout Getting Tilted Donor

    Can you imagine the commercials that the rum company is going to run? What a great decision by them to help out financially. They'll get their money back quickly, I would guess.
     
  3. the_jazz

    the_jazz Accused old lady puncher Donor

    I'm in the Red Carpet Club at the moment and don't have access to my library, but I've read several interesting histories of pirates in the Carribean in the past few years. It was a pretty interesting society, and it's not that surprising that the British and French jumped on them with both feet. To me, it seems like a simple extension of eradicating heretics.

    Cool article, Tully. I'll have more to say later, I think.
     
  4. cj2112

    cj2112 Slightly Tilted

    This very cool!
     
  5. Speed_Gibson

    Speed_Gibson Hacking the Gibson

    Location:
    Wolf 359
    Personally I find chests full of dinnerware and other period items like that more interesting than gold or other precious metals.
    Especially on wrecks like the Titanic where you see shoes lying on the ocean floor with everything else that once was the person wearing them or the clothing long gone. Personal items tell a much better story than gold or silver coins.
     
  6. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Very Tilted

    Location:
    Yucatan, Mexico
    I think, I'm no expert by any means, but I think given the time these ships were lost there's a good chance there's treasure in those chests or at least in the wreckage. In later years most the gold and silver taken from the local population had been already shipped to Europe or lost at sea. Pirates still raided vessels for many decades but mostly taking stores and dry good which they sold.

    I agree, common items from the time period are just as cool. There's a museum in Campeche, Mx that has a bunch of dinner ware, pipes, wine bottles etc... all taken from wrecked ships. They even claim to have Henry Morgans cross bow. Not sure it's his but it is amazing complete with hand carved ivory inlays.
     
  7. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    I don't know much about pirate lore save what I learned Pre-Pirates of the Carribean movies, but still Pirates of the Carribean from Disneyland. Stuff is pretty cool to find, be it on a boat, crypt, archaeology, or collector.
     
  8. Strange Famous

    Strange Famous it depends on who is looking...

    Location:
    Ipswich, UK
    Henry Morgan was a pirate wasnt he?

    oh sorry, thats the point. I only read the part about did you think Captain Morgan was just a drink.

    I dont know much about him other than he was a murderer and a wild dog who was made semi official by England to piss off the Spanish. Hopefully he was hanged or something.
     
  9. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Very Tilted

    Location:
    Yucatan, Mexico
    This is what Wiki has to say about hi retirement and death-

    In 1683, Morgan was suspended from the Jamaican Council by the machinations of Governor Lynch. Also during this time, an account of Morgan's disreputable exploits was published by Alexandre Exquemelin, who once had been his confidante, probably as a barber-surgeon, in a Dutch volume entitled De Americaensche Zee-Roovers (History of the Buccaneers of America).[8][9] Morgan took steps to discredit the book and successfully brought a libel suit against the book's publishers William Crooke and Thomas Malthus, securing a retraction and damages of two hundred English pounds.[10] The book nonetheless contributed much to Morgan's reputed fame as a bloodthirsty pirate during the time he was in Newport.
    When Thomas Lynch died in 1684, his friend Christopher Monck was appointed to the governorship and arranged the dismissal of Morgan's suspension from the Jamaican Council in 1688. Morgan's health had steadily declined since 1681. He was diagnosed with "dropsie", but may have contracted tuberculosis in London, and died on 25 August 1688. It is also possible that he may have had liver failure due to his heavy drinking. He is buried in Palisadoes cemetery, which sank beneath the sea after the 1692 earthquake.[11]
    Morgan had lived in an opportune time for privateers. He was able to successfully use the conflicts between England and her enemies both to support England and to enrich himself and his crews. With his death, the pirates who would follow would also use this same ploy, but with less successful results.
     
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  11. Strange Famous

    Strange Famous it depends on who is looking...

    Location:
    Ipswich, UK
    A quieter death than many of the innocent sailors killed by this robber baron

    Its wierd how now pirates are almost idolised as loveable rouges, democrats, anti racists.

    In reality I doubt they were much different to the Somali bandits that exist today... thieves with scant regard for human life who are prepared to kill and rob to enrich themselves.
     
  12. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Very Tilted

    Location:
    Yucatan, Mexico
    Based on your post I don't think you understand the history of the "golden age of piracy" nor the term "Robber Baron."
     
  13. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    Tully Mars have you ever found anything that is "treasure" while diving, this includes even recent items such as equipment that fell off a diver or boat?
     
  14. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Very Tilted

    Location:
    Yucatan, Mexico
    I found a pair of rather expensive Ray-Bans one day. That was about a years ago near Playa del Carmen at a dive shop/dive club I use a lot. You can see them in my avatar. I was some what pleased with my discovery. When I resurfaced I showed them around the boat only to be met with several people showing me the Rolex's and massive gold chains they'd found in the same area. One lady said she found a tennis bracelet and had it appraised at a little over 35K. Suddenly my 200 shades were not that thrilling. Turns out a lot of very wealthy people boat up and down the coast near Cancun, who knew?

    Prior to moving here I used to find all kinds of stuff in the rivers and bay on the Oregon coast. Boat motors, boats, cars, fishing gear and several pistols and rifles. Most of which had no value at all due to time in water. But one Ruger pistol was in pristine condition. I tried to track down it's owner but it seemingly had never been bought or sold... ever. The pistol is in my gun safe at my daughters house near SF, Ca. and works perfectly.
     
  15. Strange Famous

    Strange Famous it depends on who is looking...

    Location:
    Ipswich, UK
    There is no "Golden age" of plunder, murder and banditry. These pirates were criminals and murderers.

    The fact they may have treated black and white crewman equally, or that they shared the profits of their criminal rampages amongst the hired killers they employed does not make them folk heroes.

    These wild dogs were the enemies of international trade, and were quite prepared to kill innocent working class sailors if they stood in the way of their plundering. They are no better than bank robbers or highwayman.

    I describe Morgan as a robber baron as he was honoured with a title and was used as a hired gun to attack Spanish civilian shipping by the English.
    He was a mercenary without any morality other than the lust for gold. He is entitled to as much respect as a tooled up mob of Somali gangsters who ransom innocent sailors and steal cargo. The "golden" pirates are no better at all.
     
  16. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Very Tilted

    Location:
    Yucatan, Mexico
  17. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    Well I guess the Freedom Fighters we call the Minutemen and the Revolution Army are still cast as Terrorists and traitors to the crown.
    --- merged: Aug 11, 2011 at 4:40 PM ---
    That's still really cool :) even $200 is cool in my book.
     
  18. Strange Famous

    Strange Famous it depends on who is looking...

    Location:
    Ipswich, UK
    well, in general terms thats one of those things.

    Like Pinnochet is a strong man, Hussein is a dictactor
    or
    The IRA are terrorists, ETA are freedom fighters
    I am an individual, you are eccentric, he is mad.
    etc etc
    All equally possible statements depending on ones point of view I suppose...

    But there was no political element to any of these pirates that I know of. The English colonialists that rebelled against the crown and created the US were motivated by financial means certainly and were guilty of crimes against civilians, but also religious and political and human motivations and were engaged in a conflict against a force that also committed crimes against civilians.

    These golden pirates were not motivated by anything other than greed and robbery so far as I am aware, and were quite willing to kill for no other purpose than their own enrichment.

    If you were having an argument about whether pirates were worse than slavers... by all means I might be on the pirates side, but on balance I believe that both were crooks who's hands were soaked in blood.
     
  19. Frankie

    Frankie Getting Tilted

    Location:
    New England
    I spend a lot of time on the Outerbanks of NC so Black beard and other pirates are very familiar. Last Oct. I attended the 300th anniversary of Black Beard on Oakracoke island. You can't spend any time on OBX without learning of the Pirate past, they really embrace that haritage and own its history.