Looking at two new pistols.....

Curious if anyone has any experience whit them.
One is a FNH USA. A Belgium company, manufactoring in Columbia SC. Makes a helluva 9mm. .40S&W and 45.
The other is Para Ordinance. Made in Pineville NC

Both are primarily military and seem very well made
And as you may guess both are made local (near me)

 

Aside from not knowing which model from each brand, I'll state that FN's service pistols are lackluster (offering nothing that you can't get in Glock, S&W, Sig or Beretta) and Para-Ordnance, well, they make pretty 1911 mutants that are answers to questions that haven't been asked by shooters outside the Extreme Speed w/ Retarded Scenario Cardboard Cutout Blaster ring. I concede that, in the end, it is all a matter of taste. If you find something wacky and rare that is comfortable and fun and you're willing to stockpile goodies up front, go for it. Do whatever gets you hard, bro.

Unless you're into a specific model for a specific reason, one of the bigger names would better serve you as they have street cred and parts/accessories are already on the market. I loved my Steyr M357 but it was a safe queen: its family tree died out and thus almost zero parts, holsters and accessories.

 

Yea, I don't think Para makes anything for the military. Their 1911s have a pretty poor reputation. Between the two, I'd go with the FN, but the FNP style pistols aren't that popular. They make good machine guns, though.

 

Thanks for the info.....

 

Have you seen the FNP45 Tactical? It's a pretty sweet gun. Comes pre-machined to accept a MRD.

 

Early FN service pistols (not sure about the current models) had a reputation for a horrible trigger pull. ~10 pounds, IIRC. The Steyr Aug of 9mm DAO. Great hand workout. Not so great for accuracy. After about 10 rounds, you're fighting a losing battle in the sight picture willpower department.

 

I was talking to a young man recently about revolvers, he mentioned the Taurus Judge .45/.410. I wasn't sure what he was saying about it. Kinda confusing.
Can you use both .45 or .410 at the same time? How does that work? Just wondering.

 

Purchasing a Taurus Judge is a surefire way to get ridiculed by anybody that has a few hours of training in self defense with a firearm.

TFP 4.0 had a pretty good thread on it. Google has thousands of threads on why the Taurus Judge is a shitty cash cow fudd gimmick.

The .45 Long Colt / .410 revolver fad has taken over the 'tard crowd. Even S&W jumped in to earn a few bucks. It's really pathetic.

Purchasing a compact 9x19mm pistol from any major manufacturer is a surefire way to get a gun that you'll never find obsolete.

 

The taurus Judge is tremendously bulky, offers only a few shots, is gigantic, etc.

The .410 round is designed for use in a full length shotgun and is poorly adopted for use in a pistol.

Also, because it still has a rifled barrel, the 3 buckshot rounds spread out very, very quickly due to centripetal force.

If you shoot .45 colt instead... It is a low-pressure cartridge originally loaded with black powder. A .45 ACP fires the same size bullets from a more compact, (less ancient) cartridge. There are other, newer alternatives if you want maximum stopping power.

 

Well, thats good to know. I didn't look into it any further, forgot all about it actually.

 

Actually, I have to defend the Judge once again.

As a close-range blaster, IMO, it's hard to beat. The new high-velocity buckshot loadings from Federal and Winchester are pretty hideous, and were developed specifically for use from the Judge's short barrel. They come up a little short on penetration, (8-12" as opposed to 12-14" ideal) but the number of wound channels partly compensates IMO. Winchester's PDX-1 load in particular produces 15 wound channels at ranges under 7 yards, and that's a lot of blood loss.

As for the buckshot spreading due to centrifugal force, nope. .410 buckshot pellets are stacked one atop the other, so they spin around their roll/central axis just like a normal bullet. Round or disc-shaped pellets are lousy for long-range ballistics, but this thing isn't meant for use at long ranges. At 7 yards, PDX-1 discs or Federal high-performance buckshot produce patterns about 2" across. Birdshot or the PDX-1's BB Buck will spread in one helluva hurry, though, although this does make the Judge a truly monstrous snake-killer. Mom once whacked 4 Copperheads in less than 2sec with her Judge throwing #7.5 birdshot.

The Judge is designed for a very specific use: extremely close-range self defense with the highest-velocity buckshot you can find, or against snakes and rodents. It's not good for much else (although I do know people who carry it as a "woods gun" with #8 for snakes in the first two chambers and stoked .45LC in the other three for BGs or Black Bears), but it is -awfully- good at that.

We not only sell tons of these things, including plenty to people with lots of time in Mil/LE/competitive circles, but we use one ourselves within its intended performance envelope.

However, as a first/second defensive pistol, it would -not- be my first choice except as a car gun. It's -way- too specialised for that.

 

Need ballistic gelatin pics.

 

DONE. Read the comments for extra awesomeness. Want more? Read the TFP 4.0 thread on the Taurus Judge revolver.

...

Basically: Need a reason why so many subject matter experts on gun forums say this thing is a monstrous piece of fudd shit.

The reason the high end AR / Glock crowd is the way it is? Because they've probably played with all this off brand shit, too.

Again, if I need to worry about ninja snakes, I'll have a snake gun. If I need to worry about ninja bears, I'll have a bear gun.

But loading two different types of ammo into one gun and thinking you'll be able to get all 5 out in time? Utterly ridiculous.

Not a gun expert. I'm not a Red Roof Inn armorer or an 18B. I don't have a pornstar mustache. Haven't whacked 19 mandresses.

I've gone through the "weird guns" and "cheap guns" and "less-than-lethal ammo" and every other stupid fad you can imagine.

Part of the learning process involved wasting money on crap, experiencing how shitty that crap was to shoot. Way embarrassing.

Situation that requires you to defend yourself against the imminent threat of bears, snakes and knife-wieldin' rapists? .44 Magnum.

Brave is the guy that bets his life on a $300 pistol, anything that shoots .410 shells or a giant revolver with an identity crisis.

Me? I'm not that brave. I want to engage with a service pistol at 15 yards. Flashlight to the face, ID, verbal warning and...

/TFP 4.0 thread regurg

...

After a decade of shooting and dozens of handguns used 'n abused, I've decided the only two pistols someone should look at when they start are the Glock or the S&W revolver. If you can become relatively competent with either of those platforms, you're on your way to bigger and better things.

I'm not recommending these guns because they're all whiz-bang-magic, your-brand-is-crap. I'm recommending them because they are the standard by which all other guns should be judged by based on reliability, accuracy and time in the field. Still, many guns sit below them on the food chain.

 

the judge would be the perfect bear gun because you can put .410 slugs in it !!!! Very handy while hiking too ! A++++++++

 

Are you serious right now?

The average .410 slug is either 1/4 or 1/5 ounce... That is about 110 grains on the high side.

The tested velocities of .410 slugs (on the high side) are about 1300 feet per second out of the Judge.

This means you generate a total muzzle energy of approximately 350 ft-lbf

Your standard 9mm bullet is 124 grains with a muzzle velocity of approximately 1200 fps and a muzzle energy of more than 380 ft-lbf. More for +p or +p+

Even a standard ball 9mm round from a standard sized 9mm pistol has more 'oomph' than the Taurus Judge firing slugs... Plus, any standard pistol round will be far, far more accurate.

I know math isn't a strong point for a lot of people, but the .410 shell is simply not high-pressure enough to properly perform out of a pistol. Additionally, the length of the .410 cartridge is length wasted... If the cartridge were shorter that length savings could translate into a longer barrel and thus a higher velocity.

The standard 180 grain 10mm load out of a standard sized pistol produces approximately 1350 fps muzzle velocity with approximately 730 ft-lbf muzzle energy... Or more than double what the Judge can produce.

The 'judge' is plain and simple a fad for people who either care about appearances more than function, or who cannot do basic math.

The thing is a giant piece of crap. For the same weight/price you could rock a full sized Glock in 10mm and have real no-shit stopping power, plus a lot more follow up shots, the ability to reload quickly, and the ability to take accurate shots at increased distances.

 

Yeah but the glock is made out of plastic and the taurus is made out of metal. If a bear is charging you what would you rather have?

 

A Thompson M1 w/ underslung M203.

 

The taurus judge is such modern masterpiece of firearms innovation that even hardened criminals have now begun carrying them !

Police: convicted felon found with loaded gun, cash and drugs | Local & Regional | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News

 

Amateur hour, I see. I totally spotted some singles on the top left. Motherfucker would be more gangster with a bucket full of Sacagawea dollars.

We should probably ban revolving shotgun assault pistols... even though they're actually less of a threat than a traditional double stack 9mm.

Oh, joke time:

You know how I know gun laws are racist? Because white women are scared of long hard black things tearing up their daughters at school.

*rimshot*

 

Hey hey, no POLITICS in this subforum. Bwahahahhaha