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Russia - the Bear has become the world's bully again

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by rogue49, Mar 3, 2018.

  1. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    Ok, I think it's time to create a topic on this country.

    It was the world's Bully, taking advantage and even taking over other country's for some time after WWII
    then it decided to play nice for awhile

    Now and for some time it has become the biggest bully in the global.
    Not just manipulating other countries.
    But trying to take over parts
    And directly attacking much by tech.

    China, simply steals...although Nepal may object to that statement. (and it seems to becoming a power player in Africa)
    The US has had it's own share of manipulations. (and it took over a lot...in mid-1800's)
    Europe colonized like crazy then and the centuries before.

    But here, now...Russia has decided to mess with everyone.
    Especially Europe and the US.
    Now sword rattling again with Nukes.
    Screwing with votes and propaganda.

    Are they trying to gain...and grow??
    Or are they just trying to survive because they don't have a service economy...gas is slowly going away, a industry that's strong but will fade.
    All by burdening their opposition nations (I'm surprised they're not messing with China, but they're next door AND huge)

    Russia Is a Rogue State. Time to Say So.

    Putin says he wishes the Soviet Union had not collapsed. Many Russians agree.

    Putin shows new Russian nuclear weapons: 'It isn't a bluff'

    Why Trump Is Reluctant to Escalate the Cyber War With Russia

    And so on...the headlines about Russia go on and on
    Almost as much as Trump these days...and of course, Trump has "connections" to Russia (inferred, alleged or rule is ambiguous but definitely a factor)

    What does everyone think?
    ...are they just having their hayday as the aggressive CIA did back in the 50's and 60's and otherwise??

    Do others outside the US have an opinion or perspective??

    This is a significant enough topic to delve into...
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    This is going to be a bit long and it contains stuff folks who know me have read before.
    It is part of a series I'm doing on how Russia fucked with our elections but starts out with the days of MAD.
    It's a long read but I hope it's worth it.

    If You Aren’t Mad By Now Than Putin Hasn’t Been Paying Attention to You

    The Nike line-of-sight anti-aircraft missile system was produced by the U.S Army (and Bell Labs). This gave the United States its first operational anti-aircraft missile system in 1953. Site Summit is located more than 4,000 feet above Anchorage and was really difficult to build. The site was placed in a spot where over 50 vertical feet had to be blasted off of the mountaintop and more than 25,000 cubic yards of rock removed. Concrete for the battery control buildings, which were anchored to the ground with steel rods in concrete pads because of winter winds that could go reach 100 mph, and the missile magazine bunkers had to be poured concrete, something that was hard to achieve due to constant extreme weather. These unique conditions added significantly to the costs to build Site Summit. The three sites in Alaska cost over 10 million 1950’s dollars to build (roughly $104,459,300. now).

    MOUNT GORDON LYON, Alaska -- An Alaska Nike missile site, known as Site Summit, is shown through the window of a UH-60 Blackhawk from the Alaska Army National Guard Oct. 2, 2009. Site Summit is a Cold War-era Army Air Defense Command Nike missile site intended to protect American cities from Soviet bombers through an early warning and anti-aircraft missile system. Soldiers stationed at the site during the Cold War were prepared to launch Nike Hercules missiles to take the bombers down. (U.S. Air Force photo/Senior Airman Laura Turner)

    As a child growing up in Alaska it was considered normal for our elementary school to take our classes up the mountain for a tour of the Nike sight. This was done in a bus full of fourth graders with our bag lunches, going up a twisty dirt road that had MP guard stops at various places along the way up. The view is beautiful, the mountains in Alaska are breathtaking but if you grow up there taking it for granted is the norm. What did stand out was yellow concrete buildings surrounded by tall wire fences sitting on the top of the mountain. The soldiers (technicians?) were very nice and professional. They tried to explain what they were doing up there in term that an eleven year old would understand. Then they opened up the silo and brought out one of the missiles. The class watched in breathless silence as it rose up and then exhaled as it went back into its cave.


    It was supposed to make us feel safer. This was the time of MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction). These missiles were supposed to be able to stop the Russians nukes. Alaska had Russian fighter planes swooping into our airspace all the time and this was just a way to keep them honest. I didn’t feel better. I was a precocious kid, reading a lot books that were probably not appropriate for my age and my mom was involved in the peace movement. I saw those missiles as pure death. If this was America’s way of dealing with Russia, even to my young mind, I figured we were in real trouble.


    The world has changed a lot since I was a kid. Russia fell apart. New countries came about. Terrorism became our war de-jour and the US not learning from Russia’s mistake, sent soldiers into the very place that helped with their financial crippling. That turned into one of our longest ongoing wars, right up there with wiping out the Native Tribes. A strong-man took over in what was left of Russia and decided he wanted to bring it back to the former glory days. Putin knew the old weapons weren’t going to work so he turned to the kids with the keyboards.

    This column is not about straight up hacking of the election. A report from the U.S. intelligence community that says there is substantial evidence that Putin's people compromised the voting or voter registration system in seven states in 2016. The states hit were were Arizona, California, Florida, Illinois, Texas, Wisconsin and my state, Alaska. So much for the NIKE protection. The states were told about the hacks but weren't told that it was the Russians. This isn't about about hacking computers. As any hacker can tell you the real way you break a system is social engineering, because after all the PEBCAK.

    U.S. intel: Russia compromised seven states prior to 2016 election

    This was originally going to be called “If You Aren’t Mad by Now than Putin’s Shitlords Haven’t Been Paying Attention to You”. It certainly comes close to the truth but is way too clickbaity and then we have to get into the definition of shitlord. For terms born of the net, Urban Dictionary is usually your best friend so let’s go with theirs,

    “A lord of shitposting. An internet troll who identifies as a person who posts allegedly nonsensical, meaningless, random, time-wasting and sometimes sexually explicit words, pictures and gifs/videos (i.e., "shitposts") on social media. Often these posts are not "nonsensical," "meaningless" or "random," but rather are abusive, racist, misogynist, anti-LGBTQA and bigoted in other ways. The shitlord hides behind a mask of gleeful anarchy and random neutrality, when in fact he (and a shitlord, as the name implies, is usually -- though not always -- a "he") engages in the usual hate-spewing, bigotry, harassment and abuse of other kinds of trolls.”

    However, in case of Putin’s crew they aren’t doing it at random, it is intentional and with malice. They are trying to piss people off. Their posts are targeting groups of people with the intention of driving a spike into the heart of America and making it impossible for us to function as a country. They have weaponized memes and chat. Putin has declared a special kind of war on the civilians of the United States and we are losing. Does that sound way too hyperbolic for you? To a point it might be but it is very much in keeping with the appeal to emotion and fear that Putin’s crew of shitposters are doing.

    For those of you wondering about the differences between trolls, bots, and shitposters, here is a very basic run down. The bots are the most basic tool in Putin's operation, the main one being the Internet Research Agency. They are simply machines that can be loaded with hashtags, memes or whatever story they want to push. The bots have stolen names, pictures and backgrounds. A cursory check will usually expose one but they usually don't carry out enough activity to cause suspicion. The trolls have multiple fully created backgrounds, belong to web groups and go after people who seem to be trending. They use the bots to push their response up. The shitposters create the memes, entire organizations to spread the memes, keep track of what is going on to maximize the other two parts. They are the brains of the operation.

    The problem with writing an article on this subject is that it is ongoing. Every day there is new information coming out that changes the nature of what needs to be said. This story is as complicated as American politics itself. Our last election was manipulated by professionals and it is still happening at various levels, even local elections. This article is going to be link heavy, you don’t have to read the articles but I recommend that you do. This situation is going to get worse before it gets better.


    It wasn't just shitposts, it was actually organizing events and setting up groups to support candidates in purple states. People were hired to do things like set up websites and organize marches, not even knowing they were working for the Russians. In many cases black people were being used to scare whites in certain areas.
    These Americans Were Tricked Into Working For Russia. They Say They Had No Idea. - https://www.buzzfeed.com/rosalindadams/these-americans-were-tricked-into-working-for-russia-they?utm_term=.itQ60M6BMW#.mnDWnkWrkV
    One of the more common arguments is that the Russians didn't force anyone to vote a certain way which clearly shows most people don't understand how elections work. I have worked on a bunch of political campaigns, both winning and losing. The process is complicated but there are a bunch of things that have come clear with the Mueller indictment, the Russians played us. They actually seem to have a better handle on how to use our new technology. Better even than all the high priced political hacks who work the on campaigns. Back in the day you could go door to door, use telephone banks, do targeted TV ads and catch the people you needed to vote for you. In this age of cell phones, cable and gated communities, that doesn't work anymore. There are people are getting a handle on using social media but Putin’s people obviously got the better of all of them. This wasn’t magic this was money being put in right place and having access to the right people. This was hitting hard in just the right places. This was amazing politics.

    Did Russia Affect the 2016 Election? It’s Now Undeniable - https://www.wired.com/story/did-russia-affect-the-2016-election-its-now-undeniable/

    The fact is Putin's guys figured out how to target voters better than our political hacks and they did it by pissing people off. "They used data-driven targeting and analysis to assess how the content was received, and they used that information to refine their messages and make them more effective." * In fact they were so effective that people refuse to believe that the problem even exists. Where before this country was willing to drop millions of dollars to create the missile systems I went to see as a child now they write Facebook messages scorning the existence of the problem. Fran Lebowitz was on Bill Maher’s show and expressed this point perfectly. “If you told me that there would be a time when the Republicans supported the Russians and the Democrats supported the FBI, I wouldn’t have believed you.”


    Putin’s people didn’t just try to get people to vote for Trump. They targeted people to keep them from voting, to get them to vote for third party candidates, and to make the system fall apart. The Russians figured out how to use Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram better than any of the political hacks out there. They discovered issues this country faced that split it apart (gun control, racism, working class dissatisfaction, etc.) after using highly sophisticated market surveys through social media and exploited the fuck out of them.
    Yes some of it was shitposts but a lot of it was vanilla get out to vote stuff too.
    Americans Helped Spread An Alleged Russian "GOP" Account's Divisive Propaganda - https://www.buzzfeed.com/kevincollier/americans-helped-spread-an-alleged-russian-gop-accounts?utm_term=.gsJglZgVZz#.bfANQaNLa6
    "The content was not designed to persuade people to change their views, but to harden those views. Confirmation bias is powerful and commonly employed in these kinds of psychological operations (a related Soviet concept is reflexive control—applying pressure in ways to elicit a specific, known response). The intention of these campaigns was to activate—or suppress—target groups. Not to change their views, but to change their behavior."*


    We sucked that shit up and passed it on. On the Facebook Support page they have a tool where you can check to see if you reposted Russian shitposts. It's almost scary to check on yourself.
    (I was kind of glad to discover that my paranoid habit of double checking everything kept me off the list.) Here is a list of the most shared tweets by Russian bots, trolls, or fake accounts. All the pictures I'm posting are from various groups created by Russian trolls just reinforce our worst prejudices.

    The most-shared tweets made by Russian trolls that Twitter scrubbed from the internet

    Putin's people were able to organize events that got regular people to turn out to support their candidate which is pretty impressive if you have ever tried to do something like that. They also did stuff to knock down turn out at Hillary's events.
    "For example, the indictment recounts a number of instances where events and demonstrations were organized by Russians posing as Americans on social media. These accounts aimed to get people to do specific things. And it turns out—some people did."*


    Putin's people did get Americans to vote for certain candidates (or not to vote at all).
    They ratfucked us. We have proof. They reinforced natural enmities as well, a good portion of the Bernie bros who attacked Hillary turned out to be Russian bots but that didn't mean a lot of Bernie supporters weren't upset with the way things turned out. Putin's people just weaponized those feelings. They did the same thing with other groups fears and frustrations. When they weren’t making up stories to flood the wind tunnels with, they used people like Sean Hannity as a weapon.

    Sean Hannity is now a favorite weapon of Russian trolls attacking America

    One of the things the shitlords did well was to make all the parties look like assholes. I have to give millennials some major points for getting sick and tired of everything that was being spread around out there, real and fake. They have done their own weaponization but used sarcasm and not giving a fuck. It only made sense when both sides seemed every bit as disgusting. Which is exactly what Putin's trolls were happy to have them think. That way they wouldn't vote and the election would fall to a handful of mouth breathers and Putin's people could watch America fall apart. But give them credit your can't hook them with the standard bait.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Getting the next generation to care again doesn't seem like an easy prospect and I can understand why. It's not like either side is offering anything that actually looks like a decent future. But I promise, not being involved will hurt a lot more. The kids who have were involved in the school shootings are doing a good job of standing up to Putin’s bots. The answer certainly isn’t building missile silos but we need to invest in the people who know how to deal with this, our young people. The badasses with keyboards and cell phones, the ones who have the eye for what is bullshit and refuse to get caught in wind tunnels. Turn them loose and Putin’s shitlords don’t stand a chance

    Pro-Gun Russian Bots Flood Twitter After Parkland Shooting

    These are Russian troll accounts all using the same cut and paste accounts to attack one of the kids who was caught in the school shooting in Florida.


    Here is Emily Gomez, one of the other kids, kicking them in the balls.

    *Molly Mckew - Wired
  3. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Where ever I roam
    Russia is an interesting country. I think a lot of it has to do with Putin wanting to be the Tzar, and he is extremely smart and knows how to win. And he is willing to cheat and kill to win if that is what it takes. For most of the polulation, he is fighting for the poor Russians against the oligarchs that took advantage of shaddy deals and collusion. He also is KGB/FSB and knows how to operate in the shadows.

    The richer they come ...

  4. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    Truly Machiavellian
  5. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    How Russia stole the night: Inside the illegal market for American night-vision technology

    Just remember Russia is not just a bully...and instigator...but it's a thief. (probably taking tips from one of the biggest currently, China)
    Each piece it's able to get its hands on, it can leverage against its competitors. (it's beyond the enemies list now...)

    And often it can end up using it even better than some of the original players...it does a great job of catch-up.
    Look at what it's done with Hacking and investing completely into state-sponsored teams of them.

    Problem is...they've got the momentum...and the targets are lagging on defense or countering their activities.
    Are we acting fast enough?

    Are we securing ourselves fast enough?

    Putin and Russia is playing hardball...take no prisoners.
    They're not fooling.
  6. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
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  7. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

  8. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Where ever I roam
    Sure would be nice if the national party or one of the multitude of issue groups had organized to influence the narrative on-line and the general mood to counter this. Instead of the ineffective method of ignoring it or turning off their devices. If you had a few hundred people in the big cities in the US it would have overwhelmed the trolls and done a lot to show that their views are in the minority. It would also help to convince and persuade people who are willing to learn about it and haven't made up their minds yet.
  9. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    Trump blindsides allies at NATO

    Gee, y'think this might benefit Russia in some way??
    Putin gets his Xmas present early.

    Meanwhile there are Russian tank build-ups on the Ukraine border.

    All the while the West is distracted by politics.

    Wouldn't surprise me if there's a big Russian move this year.
    Especially with all the main nuke players not paying attention or having the will to confront.
  10. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    I don't really have a problem with us getting out of Afghanistan.
    That is an ongoing clusterfuck that will never be solved.
    Every major power that has tried to deal with Afghanistan has gotten bogged down there and lost.
    However, we should have given out allies warning and time to plan accordingly.

    Syria is also a clusterfuck but 45 is leaving at Putin's request only.
    There are people there we owe some serious debts too and have made promises we will be breaking big time by leaving.
    This is wrong on many levels.
  11. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    Yes, but the real reason we're in Afghanistan is because of Pakistan and its nukes.
    Now if Russia or China wants to come back in and stabilize it...that's more their area than ours. We went in only to put an thumb in the eye of the Russians...and later terrorism and nukes.
    However the chaos of the area will sooner or later trigger nuclear use or worse, including spread of the things.

    Supposedly Trump withdrew from Syria after a call with Erdogan ...but I have a feeling that guy is now under the sway of Putin.
    Putin is playing a big decoy, distract and move game.

    He's having a ball. We're just the suckers. Like playing a 3-card Monty game with a con.
    Glee in Russia Over Trump’s Foreign Policy Largess
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
  12. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    How Russia obscures the truth

    They even dupe themselves.
    Then again, they've done the most practice on themselves (on the citizens, etc)

    Now it's even more so and it's spread.
  13. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    U.S. Intelligence Warns That Russia and China Are Seizing on Global Turmoil

    Yes...our chaos and distraction is their benefit.
    This is not just the US...but Europe too.

    Again, it's like Putin's plan at the beginning years ago was to toast, "Confusion to our enemies"

    Russia is an instigator to gain power, influence and land...China's main focus is to steal knowledge and control resources. (they maintain a 90% monopoly on rare earths in the world...y'know, the stuff used for electronics)
    One's a bully, the other's a thief. (which is not to say that Europe or America haven't either or both before this)
    U.S. Charges Huawei With Stealing Trade Secrets, Bank Fraud

    And you know what...we fell for it. And we're still following for it.
    Only recently have we begun to realize the extent
    And we're only "just" catching up.

    It's like calling the exterminator AFTER the house has been infested.

    We need our leadership to stop denying, to stop delaying because of agendas or parties.
    And start tackling the problem.

    My question is...why do we have to get punched in the nose first...or be robbed
    BEFORE we think and act on security???

    Can't we be ahead of the game for once??
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
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  14. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    Widening Russia Money Laundering Scandal Hits European Banks

    Not just a bully...but influence spreading by military, government, Internet, oligarchs, money and even their criminal element
    Like a cockroach infestation.

    And yet, there's been greedy corporate and political targets that have allowed, ignored or even catered to the activity...for their own benefit, of course.

    Makes you wonder who's worse...the villain...or those that enable and empower them??

    Either way, it needs to be cleaned up.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
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