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The lethality of .22's

Discussion in 'Tilted Weaponry' started by ChrisJericho, Oct 5, 2011.

  1. ChrisJericho

    ChrisJericho Careless whisper

    Location:
    Fraggle Rock
    So often times I hear people joking about the .22's (usually .22lr) saying how weak the cartridge is, how it will barely hurt anyone etc etc. Obviously we all know it isn't the ideal self defense round.

    But as I casually roamed about the internet, I started noticing that a lot of people were getting killed by .22's.

    Here is the article I posted in the 'myth of the overzealous prosecutor' thread:
    http://tdn.com/news/local/article_47212870-f820-11df-aab6-001cc4c002e0.html

    from the above article: "Thomas McKenzie, 56, of Morton, died face-down on Brady's front lawn after being shot with a .22-caliber rifle. An autopsy showed he died of a gunshot wound to the chest."

    Article about a kid shooting and killing a friend with a .22 because he thought it was an air gun:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lly-kills-best-friend-misfired-gun-prank.html

    Female hotel employee kills robber/possible rapist http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o0CyqZ2D-g

    Female school counselor kills home intruder http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o0CyqZ2D-g

    Man accidentally shoots and kills his girlfriend while cleaning her p22 http://www.thenewstribune.com/2011/...1566965/man-accused-in-girlfriends-death.html

    Now obviously, not every person who gets shot with a .22 dies or gets on the news. It's likely that hundreds if not thousands of people accidentally shoot themselves or someone else with a .22 and they get sent to the hospital and released and we never hear about. And of course we all know that shot placement is a key factor thing in a self defense situation.

    That being said, I just get the feeling that a lot of "gun people" really don't take the .22 as seriously as they should.

    Comments?
     
  2. Plan9

    Plan9 Hard To Kill Donor

    Location:
    This Island Earth
    Shot placement'd!

    The .22 LR is not a recommended self defense cartridge because it doesn't offer a "sure enough" stopping power factor against your average 180 pound male attacker (granted, some people suggest the same for 9mm). This is not to say that several shots from a .22 pistol aren't sufficient to kill you, though. Modern high velocity loads are perfectly capable of ruining your day.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. fflowley

    fflowley Don't just do something, stand there! Donor

    The squirrels on my property find them to be highly lethal......
     
  4. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    I have always treated any round and gun as lethal. It was how I was taught to handle weapons.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Remy

    Remy Vertical

    Location:
    Dayton OH
    Depends on WHERE it lands. 22s are great for hunting but they can kill a Grizzly or a person if in the right place.
    $5 to plan9 to go hunt Grizzly with 10/22!!!!

    those little 17hm's look like they haul ass too. ouch.
     
  6. KirStang

    KirStang Remember...only YOU can return fire.

    Wear your patch proudly, young warrior.

    Come back with your patch....or on top of it (mangled on top of it, really).

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Plan9

    Plan9 Hard To Kill Donor

    Location:
    This Island Earth
    African Elephant. .22 CB. I'm on it.
     
  8. Remy

    Remy Vertical

    Location:
    Dayton OH
    lol thats awesome, a REAL patch?

    Oh yeah, Tavors were gonna get imported but Charles Daley (sp?) went out of business. Bummer. Ive always wanted a Famas and Tavor bullpup. Especially in .22 with a long bayonet for bears.
     
  9. KirStang

    KirStang Remember...only YOU can return fire.

    Yeaaa, the Tavor would have been fun to try out. Plan9's already mad at me because I picked up an AUG clone.

    It's a real patch. But only cool kids get one. :cool:

    (jk)
     
  10. Plan9

    Plan9 Hard To Kill Donor

    Location:
    This Island Earth
    Pfft, my patch came with a Glock 19 .50 Beowulf conversion kit.

    [​IMG]

    Really disappointed because I was hoping for a .440 Corbon.

    ...

    I've always wanted that 3" .22 LR "kit gun" from S&W but I think one in .22 WMR would be a lot more useful.

    ...

    I was going to post statistics on the most popular firearm calibers used by criminals... but that's just silly.
     
  11. ChrisJericho

    ChrisJericho Careless whisper

    Location:
    Fraggle Rock
    threadjack'd !!
     
  12. KirStang

    KirStang Remember...only YOU can return fire.

    A .22LR still packs at least 100, if not 200 ft/lbs of energy, ya know. Just get a slidefire stock and shoot the bear with a .22LR beta mag.
     
  13. Python

    Python Getting Tilted

    Aye, anywhere between 100 and 200 usually, depending on the load. Put one between someone's eyes and I guarantee they won't be able to eat lead for breakfast. I wouldn't use it for self defense though, unless it was a .22LR pistol with a good sized magazine. No recoil makes for quick accurate shots at close range. Did some speed shooting at the local gun club once with a .22LR pistol; got pretty tight groupings even when firing as fast as I could. Not much good long range though.

    Oh, another "good" thing about the .22 is that it can penetrate many forms of kevlar vests; due to the fiber structure the .22 is just too small to effectively get caught in the vest. The police in my country fear the .22 more than most other firearms (perhaps excluding the shottie, as there's no getting away from that :p).
     
  14. KirStang

    KirStang Remember...only YOU can return fire.

    Hmm, I'm fairly certain a .22 caliber projectile weighing at 40 grains and traveling at 1000 FPS is insufficient to penetrate level IIIA vests commonly worn by law enforcment. Check out the NIJ level I standards. Level I is rated for the .22LR and such protection is included in level III vests.

    However, if you added some mass and ass to the projectile, then it starts approaching the 5.7x28 territory, which does a far better job of zipping through soft armor. I think the mechanism is that the speed and small diameter of the bullet causes the energy to focus on a small part of the para-aramid weave (kevlar), thus preventing the fabric from dissipating the energy over a wider area.
     
  15. Python

    Python Getting Tilted

    Aye I'm sure there are vests out there that manage to circumvent it's small size. Perhaps they thickened the fibres and added another layer interweaving them, I don't know. I do know that there are commonly worn vests out there that do not offer adequate protection against such small calibers though. Sorry I don't have any links to back it up, but it's been stated by official figures in my country, and it's apparently well known by criminals operating here. Yes you're right, the problem is that the vest potentially won't manage to distribute the energy from the shot over a wide enough area.

    Anyway, I hope I don't get shot by any caliber, and that's including the .22. I for one take it very seriously. Hell, even a powerful air gun (Pre-Charged Pneumatic rifle for example) can do some serious damage if applied correctly. The Walther 1250 (fps) Dominator FT for example, manages to deliver 26 joule shots, which is pretty impressive considering it's powered by air. I'm actually thinking about getting one, as it looks like a pretty impressive recreational weapon. Would be great for just standing outside of my apartment and doing some target practice. Saw a YT video where a guy shot through the hood and door of a car with such a rifle.

    Kind of went off-topic there, sorry.
     
  16. Plan9

    Plan9 Hard To Kill Donor

    Location:
    This Island Earth
  17. Remy

    Remy Vertical

    Location:
    Dayton OH
    dang 9, that site is the slickest HTML 1.0 I've ever seen!
     
  18. Plan9

    Plan9 Hard To Kill Donor

    Location:
    This Island Earth
    Yeah, Air Force would bitch about the format instead of the content.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Remy

    Remy Vertical

    Location:
    Dayton OH
    lol!
    9: Wow look at this sweet new SIG rifle!!
    Rem: Yeah but the packaging and box suck!

    :(
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Plan9

    Plan9 Hard To Kill Donor

    Location:
    This Island Earth
    Are you high? Sig rifles are clunky as fuck. Like a modern AK mutant made out of cast iron.

    ...

    ChrisJericho accused me of being a threadjack artiste. I shall redeem myself:

    Relevant Article 1 - .22 Lethality Test, Sniper's Hide

    Relevant Article 2 - Wikipedia Entry on .22 LR

    Relevant Article 3 - .22 Long Rifle for Self Defense

    Relevant Article 4 - Lethality of .22 LR, Defensive Carry

    Interesting stuff from both sides of the debate plus retarded anonymous post commentary.

    A .22 LR pistol is better than nothing, sure, but I'll stick with my G19 and Federal JHPs.

    For us, armed citizens, a .22 LR should not be something we entertain. We have options.