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Politics Trump - How's he doing??

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by rogue49, Jan 8, 2017.

  1. Cubby

    Cubby Vertical

    I'm Canadian so won't wade into this debate too much but from the looks of it, Trump may very well get re-elected because of a lack of really solid Democratic contenders. This is one of the reasons the Republicans are not liking the impeachment proceedings. Because if he gets impeached, there is no real forerunner for the Republicans either. Hopefully, the Democrats can figure it out and change will come in 2020 but I'm not holding my breath.
     
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  2. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
  3. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    One of the talking points for why a small, but large enough, group of people either wouldn't vote for Hillary, or wanted her and the centrist neo-liberals to lose in 2016 was that motivation and activism on the left-wing in the US had been declining, and they thought that Trump would be a driving force to re-energize the left and ensure a more progressive candidate was nominated in 2020. While they were wrong that Trump wasn't going to do a lot of damage and would become more moderate and reined in if he won, they were right that the Democratic base is more energized and engaged. If the Democrats can get through the primary without turning too negative and are able to unify around the eventual nominee, I think it will be closer than it should be, but that any one of them can get the electoral college votes needed to win. The Democrats don't have the perfect candidate, and I'm not sure if they will be able to find someone either that is able to be religious enough for that part of the country, yet secular for the other part. They will need to be strong and tough, but anti-war. They will need to be straight and white, but know how to deal with the racial and orientation issues properly. They will need new immigration ideas in order to fix the problem and be able to speak Spanish. And some strong business experience, military/intel experience, previous elected official, famous, medical and environmental/international diplomacy history. They will also need to gain the trust and support of female voters, while not pissing off the males.

    They also have to be able to give great speeches and answer the tough questions. And be crazy enough to run and change their lives drastically if they win.
     
  4. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    What people on the left need to figure out is there is no such thing as the perfect candidate.
    Until they stop making elections about purity contests then they will continue to lose elections.
    People wonder why black voters will vote for a candidate who was convicted of corruption and they will tell you flat out, the asshole may be a crook but he does his best to take care of us and if we get rid of him it will be years before there will be someone with his clout and ability to do that in the office again.
    And yes, I'm making a sweeping generalization there, whites are much more likely to reelect criminals than blacks.

    The point remains, sometimes you have to vote for the lesser of two evils.
    Then get in there and get what you want.
    Bernie was running in the last election not to win but to push the Hillary to the left, he was a bit surprised when things took off and it looked like he had a chance.
    This time who knows.

    Letting Trump win to motivate the left makes as much sense as letting the forest burn down so new trees can grow.
    I thought it was a grossly stupid idea then and it is clearly far worse then I thought it would be.
     
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  5. omega

    omega Very Tilted Donor

    I think black people tend to be more pragmatic because they have grown up in a country where the best they generally get is lip service. Hard to be an idealist in that situation. images-1.jpg
    I saved this picture years ago because I thought it was kind of funny. Looking all serious with flowers and a little caesars hot and ready. Now when I look at this pic I see a guy well dressed doing his best. Someone who may not be rich but has dignity. He is making an effort and putting himself out there. That is pragmatic. Pizza and flowers is still someone looking out for you on a date.
     
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  6. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    Theoretical politics isn't exactly my area of expertise, and there are many different scenarios of how it could have played out. I think we have been lucky so far that it hasn't been worse. I would have expected him to have done the political assassination by drone back in 2017 and started a war in Iran. I had expected the invasion of Iran back when Bolton was nominated actually. I also thought the Tea Party and the right-wing media to be even more dominate. I didn't think he would have made so many stupid mistakes and not to play golf as much and wasting time.

    If we play out the scenarios of if Hillary had won though, and the impact it would have on progressive causes that would have had, things might not have improved for the left as fast as they might of otherwise. The election primary would look a lot different now if Hillary was the incumbent President, probably with a low approval rating. That means that she might have lost to a Republican in 2020. Maybe Ted Cruz would have won in 2020 or Niki Haley. Those two might not be as openly hostile to the left, but I bet they would be a lot more effective at getting conservative policies passed. They would have a chance at getting reelected in 2024, and the DNC would run another moderate candidate (after knowing that Obama and Hillary had won) and it might be hard to defeat the conservatives in the electoral college still. Bernie wouldn't have run in 2020 against an incumbent President Hillary, and I don't know if that would have done more damage to left wing policies if there was a primary challenge against her. And he would be getting up there in age against Hillary Clinton's successor in 2024. I don't know how the GOP would be doing, but the 2024 election would have been tough if they had won in 2020. That brings us to 2028 (Jan 2029) before a new progressive candidate might have a chance at winning and shaping some policies.

    I think that is the line of thinking that led a few activists to say that it was better to take the chance with defeating Trump in 2020 and suffer for 4 years in order to get change to happen faster.
     
  7. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
  8. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
  9. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    • Like Like x 1
  11. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom

    View: https://twitter.com/WestWingReport/status/1219248985413758976


    President Trump made 16,241 false or misleading claims in his first three years
     
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  12. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
  13. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    Republicans spend it and give away money to the business executives and their families, all while devaluing the dollar to make the stock market go up and look good. And then they pull investments and stock market trades when the Democrats are in power to make the economy go down and complain about spending money on things like health care and infrastructure...
     
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  14. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC