Sun Tzu

I guess it depends on what you consider life.

__________________
To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Baraka_Guru

It's propagandically delicious!

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Sun Tzu

Is it? If that is all it is I'll ask a moderator to take it down. What part of this is untrue?

__________________
To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Baraka_Guru

First, there will be no need to take it down, regardless. It's listed under "Found on the Net." It's fair game.

Second, I'm not going to parse it bit by bit, but its propagandic status was obvious to me.

A few examples:

• They used what appeared to be full-term baby "actors" to stand in for these aborted babies (well, fetuses rather).
• They used appeal to emotion, and rather cheaply, especially at the end.
• Obama didn't vote "against," he voted "present," and he did so because he didn't want to criminalize doctors and women who use the procedure for acute cases where health is endangered. He was concerned with the wording of the bill, which used such words as "kill."
• It assumes that Obama's voting is directly responsible for the ostensible abuses that health-care providers conduct against the fetuses.
• A 13-week fetus is in the second trimester. It isn't until the third trimester where you get into issues of pain, suffering, and consciousness of the fetus. Moreover, a vast majority of abortions happen early in the first trimester.
• It appeared to me that the purpose of the video was to paint Obama as a "baby-eater."

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Sun Tzu

I guess to believe everything one sees on the internet isnt very smart.

So in your opinion its probably safer to assume the nurse presented on the video is lying. Especially the story she had about holding the infant (not fetus) in her arms as it died. That does play to emotion.

__________________
To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Baraka_Guru

I don't know. I would sooner say she is being misleading and perhaps is misinformed (regarding Obama). I don't know what 13-week fetuses are like to see directly, but my guess is that it wouldn't be a pleasant thing to view. They are rather shaped by that stage, but what's missing is consciousness, etc., as I mentioned, so she probably felt sympathetic to the fetuses for that reason. It would be a tough thing to see--living tissue shaped like a tiny baby.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

telekinetic

Here is a picture of a 12 week old fetus--it looks like a vaguely human shaped jellyfish the size of a mouse.

http://www.donorth.net/winterwonderl...20Hand%201.jpg

**Warning: This is an actual photograph of a (non-bloody) fetus in someone's hand (for scale...it's smaller than their palm) and as such could be considered graphic depending on your beliefs.***

snowy

This is a fetus that is 13 weeks old:


At 13 weeks, a fetus is approximately 2.91 inches long (7.4cm) and weighs around .81oz. The eyes and ears have yet to develop but continue to do so during the 13th week. The heartbeat is undetectable unless using specialized instruments. So while it looks a bit like a baby, it's still nothing like a full-term infant.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

shakran

The propaganda is clearly bullshit, but it does bring to light an interesting question.

Why is it that neo cons are so violently against abortion, but pro death penalty?

I suppose it could be explained by noticing that the family values party has so many prominent officials cheating on their wives.

Hypocrisy. The great, unacknowledged, central plank in the neocon platform.

Sun Tzu

I didnt think far enough ahead before posting this. Occasionally whenever I came across something I found interesting I posted in this area (a couple of times they were moved here). It wasnt my intention to post it to be pro anything. Perhaps I could have labeled it "check out this propoganda" I asked them to take it down. It was a mistake, it needs to be aborted.

__________________
To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

telekinetic

Do not mistake discussion of what you posted for criticism of you.

Crack

Oh man, if I ever did that, I could never post anything ever again!

Edit:
I heard Obama eats babies? If that were true, why does he also want them aborted? I love to eat steak, so it would be strange of me to want all the baby cows killed... then how would I get steak?

Someone explain in terms I can understand using words with only one vowel and more than 2 syllabales.

And... Go.

__________________
Crack, you and I are long overdue for a vicious bout of mansex.

~Halx

Sun Tzu

I dont, but the commentary just made me think a bit, and overall I agree that it could be seen as propoganda. If I can help it I want try and steer clear of approaching the creation of threads like that. I have a friend that bombards me with shit that I have to respond with why its a hoax. Its really annoying. Unless Im labeling it check out this propoganda. I should have researched more before posting something like this with a title like that. Im still researcing it now.

There are times I dont agree with people here, but Im not too big to be wrong and learn something.

__________________
To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Tully Mars

Thanks. I needed that. It's ben a tough go lately and a good laugh cures all.

__________________
I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

hawtdog

One reason many are pro-death penalty but anti-abortion is that they see a murderer being put to death for murder as a form of bringing justice. The murderer isn't killed to
'just' punish him but to punish him and to serve justice. On the other hand, aborting a baby has nothing to do with justice. They baby did nothing to deserve death whereas the murderer did.

There's nothing hypocritical about that, the two cases just aren't the same.