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Old 03-30-2006, 09:36 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Katie Holmes to keep silent during birth o_O

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006140204,00.html


Quote:
Cruise in birth control

By JULIE MOULT

TOM Cruise’s pregnant fiancée Katie Holmes will be reminded to keep her vow of silence during birth — by signs plastered around their home.

The couple — following the Scientology tradition of a silent birth — had the posters delivered to their Beverly Hills mansion.

The 6ft placards will be placed so Katie can see them in labour.

One reads: “Be silent and make all physical movements slow and understandable.”

Dawson’s Creek actress Katie, 26, must “keep mum” and will not even be allowed painkillers when she has the couple’s first child due any day.

Friends — believed to be Scientology elders — were pictured carrying the huge white boards through the gates.

The “birthing boards” will also tell staff and visitors to stay silent.

Followers believe it is traumatic for babies to hear their mother scream or groan when giving birth. They think it can cause “psychic” damage, which takes years of therapy to overcome.

The cult’s creator, sci-fi writer L. Ron Hubbard, once said: “Maintain silence in the presence of birth to save both the sanity of the mother and child.”

The doctrine stresses newborns cannot be poked or prodded for medical tests or spoken to for seven days.

Katie began dating Tom, 43, last year. She was well-known for her Catholic beliefs but quickly fell pregnant and is yet to wed.
I feel this to be ridiculous. What about you?
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Old 03-30-2006, 09:42 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Although your post didn't really say much, I guess I think it's just fine;

Not so much for the wacky religion, but becuase it's a symbol of strength. I'm all about natural things, including natural birth. If someone wanted to not take painkillers and remain silent during their child birth for any other reason, I'd be quite impressed. But doing it because Scientology says so.. well.. yea.
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Old 03-30-2006, 09:44 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itch vaccine
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006140204,00.html




I feel this to be ridiculous. What about you?
No more ridiculous than a Christian Scientists belief to not have normal medicine treatment, nor a Muslim who does not shake hands with the left hand.

Tolerance of others is tantamount even if we find their customs not in line with our own.
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Old 03-30-2006, 09:48 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Stupidest fucking thing I ever heard!
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Old 03-30-2006, 09:50 AM   #5 (permalink)
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interesting to say otherwise.

I don't shake with my left hand either, would you? I've been taught not to as a child. And I'm no Muslim.

Likewise I find it inappropriate not to receive normal medicine treatment

but maybe that all comes down to the fact that I hold very little religious beliefs.
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Old 03-30-2006, 09:53 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Then I remember they can vote.

*Sigh*
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Old 03-30-2006, 09:55 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthetiq
No more ridiculous than a Christian Scientists belief to not have normal medicine treatment, nor a Muslim who does not shake hands with the left hand.

Tolerance of others is tantamount even if we find their customs not in line with our own.
At least the muslim thing made sense at one time (and probably still does today in some places).
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Old 03-30-2006, 09:57 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeraph
At least the muslim thing made sense at one time (and probably still does today in some places).
my primary school teacher was so pissed when I took things with my left hand.
apparently it was rude to do so because you wipe your arse with your left hand. :P

of course, she didn't tell me what it really meant. I guess I found out today.
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Old 03-30-2006, 10:01 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Everyone has a right to their own beliefs, in my opinion, as long as they don't force them on me. I just don't see how a woman can have no pain killers AND expect to remain silent while giving birth. I did not have any pain killers with my second child and you probably could hear me across the state! If she really can remain silent during this, more power to her!
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Old 03-30-2006, 10:15 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I have a problem with the "don't touch or speak to the child for seven days"

there is a lot of research which shows the mental bond between mother and child happens immediately after birth. The baby's eye focal length at birth is ~1 foot... which just so happens to be the distance between the breast and the face of the mother. Which is why babies are bonded to whoever holds them the most in the immediate months prior to birth.

Wow, I find myself agreeing with Ustwo...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
Then I remember they can vote.

*Sigh*
I fear for that child... being raised in such a coercive and brainwashing environment.
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Old 03-30-2006, 10:22 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
I have a problem with the "don't touch or speak to the child for seven days"
Didn't see that part. Agreed. Contemporary Medicine and Psychology ALL agree on this one.. strong maternal bond happens FAST.

I think it's just damn impressive to remain silent during birth. To me, its a lesser extent of monks who can remain celibate their entire life or not speak for most of their life. It's a show of great mental strength, something I believe most people lack. Most importantly, it's a show of determination and mental strength that does NOT harm others.

Just imagine how DIFFICULT it would be to remain silent, especially without medicine. That takes mental control that most people do not posess, so I can respect her for that, if nothing else.
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Old 03-30-2006, 10:46 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I wouldn't be as concerned if Katie Holmes herself had volunteered to follow the tradition, but if that's forced on her... that would be awful.

I, myself, would opt for a 'quiet' birth, just because I have this thing about people who raise their voices.. yellers.. shouters.. etc.. they bother me to no end. (if I think more about it, I would say their believe in how babies are traumatized by the screaming makes sense) But no medication? And no speaking or holding the baby is not something that I would find acceptable.
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Old 03-30-2006, 10:51 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
The doctrine stresses newborns cannot be poked or prodded for medical tests or spoken to for seven days.
I think you can hold the baby.. just not have it checked out ot make sure that it's OK... the not speaking to it seems like it would cause more damage than the mother gettinga bit vocal with the pain...
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Old 03-30-2006, 10:54 AM   #14 (permalink)
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according to scientology the baby isn't hers its theirs. And stop calling it a religion. Its a cult.
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Old 03-30-2006, 10:58 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo
according to scientology the baby isn't hers its theirs. And stop calling it a religion. Its a cult.
yeap, it's a cult. I have to agree on that.
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Old 03-30-2006, 11:04 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I think that is insane...If had to make my GF do that when we had are daughter 6 years ago she would have told me off
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Old 03-30-2006, 11:04 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the article
The doctrine stresses newborns cannot be poked or prodded for medical tests or spoken to for seven days.
It doesn't say mama can't hold baby. It just says baby can't have medical tests performed on it and that nobody (including mama) should speak to it. I can imagine various ways in which this might be beneficial, but I don't actually have any reason to believe that this way is any better or worse for baby (or Katie) than the way most people give birth in American hospitals, with or without pain medication.

Of course...
Quote:
Originally Posted by itch vaccine
I feel this to be ridiculous. What about you?
I find this ridiculous, too, but only because of the reasons they are doing it. It makes me wonder about what all the other Scientology dogma entails.
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Old 03-30-2006, 11:35 AM   #18 (permalink)
 
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i guess everyone has the right to their own beliefs, or something
my own beliefs being that scientologists are incredibly weird

here's some scientologist audio if you're interested
http://rapidshare.de/files/16683032/scientology.rar
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Old 03-30-2006, 11:42 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I'm reminded of the Bill Cosby bit where he describes child birth as something akin to having your bottom lip pulled over the back of your head. Yeah....I'm staying silent during something like that. To each his own. If it's one thing they've earned in this world it's the right to their privacy.

Hey Katie -- I'm 41 ... do you have a sister?
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Old 03-30-2006, 11:45 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackthorn
If it's one thing they've earned in this world it's the right to their privacy.
Their press agents might be out of work if they actually did have a right to privacy...
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Old 03-30-2006, 11:50 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maleficent
Their press agents might be out of work if they actually did have a right to privacy...
They have more of a press entourage don't they? You watch though ... some hack looking to win a Pulitzer will have birthing photos posted on the web and the Cruise-Holmes's will make a huge stink about it. His interview with Matt Lauer confirmed that he's a nut job so none of this will surprise me.

Key Katie... about that sister... be a doll and PM me!!!
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Old 03-30-2006, 12:25 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Tom Cruise needs to have a watermelon shoved up his ass and see if he can stay silent during that.
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Old 03-30-2006, 12:32 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Every time I hear something about Scientology, the more I wonder why people actually believe in it. Too bad it's not a cult where everyone drinks poison and dies.
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Old 03-30-2006, 12:48 PM   #24 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Nikki*
Tom Cruise needs to have a watermelon shoved up his ass and see if he can stay silent during that.
Awesome. I can just see it on the next episode of South Park...
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Old 03-30-2006, 12:49 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Holy Jebus christ! That is seriously the stupidiest thing I ever heard in my entire life
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Old 03-30-2006, 12:51 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I think that Tom Cruise should keep silent for the rest of his life, and I will sign a petition that say such. I also think Katie Holms should win a Darwin award for continuing on Tom Cruises genes.
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Old 03-30-2006, 01:03 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Nikki*
Tom Cruise needs to have a watermelon shoved up his ass and see if he can stay silent during that.

Now this made me laugh out loud...that's hilarious.
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Old 03-30-2006, 01:04 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carno
Every time I hear something about Scientology, the more I wonder why people actually believe in it. Too bad it's not a cult where everyone drinks poison and dies.
There's no money in those kinds of cults

You have to keep them alive so they can keep buying your books and sending you money.... Oh, and devoting their lives to your "religion"

How can something get classified as a religion when the founder essentailly stated "the best way to make money is to start your own religion"

it boggles the mind.
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Old 03-30-2006, 01:06 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Nikki*
Tom Cruise needs to have a watermelon shoved up his ass and see if he can stay silent during that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carno
Too bad it's not a cult where everyone drinks poison and dies.


Very valid points, I think! I could understand not making noise if you had an epidural - I hardly made any noise at all - but asking her to remain silent while pushing something that huge through such a small hole with NO drugs is just fucking STUPID. I feel so sorry for her. Ever since she hooked up with that psychopath she's become his mute little puppet. You never hear her voice any more... it's just Tom speaking for "both" of them. I hope someday she tells him to shove it.

And not talking to your infant for the first week of their life, and denying the child medical testing that could detect possible health problems... it's just so STUPID STUPID STUPID! I really don't know why any sane person would believe in any of that rot, especially when there's overwhelming scientific evidence proving the importance of establishing the mother-child bond immediately following birth. I just want to kick Tom Cruise in the balls. And bitchslap Katie for being dumb enough to stay with him.
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Old 03-30-2006, 01:16 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Interesting fact: The womb is actually a very noisy place. The fetus hears the rushing of mother's blood and pounding heart beat all the time. The relative silence outside actually comes as a bit of a shock. This is why the "Shhh." sound can be so calming for a newborn.

The baby can't hear much of anything in there, so what's the big deal. On the way out, the baby is working just as hard as the mother (getting turned, squeezed and pushed), so I doubt it's traumatized by the wails of its mother.
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Old 03-30-2006, 01:19 PM   #31 (permalink)
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On a serious note, are there any actual documented case of this happening including the effects on the child afterward?
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Old 03-30-2006, 01:28 PM   #32 (permalink)
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doing a fairly quick google on scientology and childbirth returned a snippet from an interview with John Travolta - who is a Scientologist...


http://www.xenu.net/archive/WIR/wir5-2.html
Quote:
Kelly Preston/John Travolta

Mrshowbiz reported on April 4th that Kelly Preston and John Travolta have
completed the Scientology childbirth of their second child.

"The baby girl, named Ella Bleu, weighed 9 pounds at birth. The delivery
was planned to be what Scientologists call a 'quiet birth.' The star of
Look Who's Talking Now explains the non-talking concept to Entertainment
Tonight. 'We do the traditional French Lamaze, but in Dianetics, you try
and keep the delivery room quiet so there's nothing recorded in the
child's mind that shouldn't be there while there's pain going on,'
Travolta says. Kelly is free to moan, because 'the sounds are not as
detrimental. Any people saying any kind of negative verbiage may adversely
affect the baby later on.'"
That I can buy - -sounds OK - moaning OK - screaming at the husband that it's all his fault she's in all kinds of pain is bad...

But -- doesn't the state require some sort of blood test when the baby is born - and don't they have to check the RH factor of the child? I know home births are pretty common -- during a regular home birth - -what happens?
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Old 03-30-2006, 01:36 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I read somewhere - that Tom bought Katie an Ipod to help keep her quiet..

Sometimes, just having something else to do, helps lessen the pain... like having something else to concentrate on... perhaps is she were to have a death grip on tom's testicles.. .and with each contraction - she could squeeze really really hard... she might not mind the pain so much...
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Old 03-30-2006, 01:51 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I think Tom Cruise is a great actor sometimes, and Katie Holmes is an ok actress. Other than that, I really don't give a crap. What I read in gossip papers and see on gossip television shows doesn't influence my thoughts regarding these people in the least. I'm probably just as wacky as they are, in my own way, but the press isn't all up in my shit.

I don't understand how these opinions regarding celebrities get formed.
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Old 03-30-2006, 02:02 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maleficent
I read somewhere - that Tom bought Katie an Ipod to help keep her quiet..

Sometimes, just having something else to do, helps lessen the pain... like having something else to concentrate on... perhaps is she were to have a death grip on tom's testicles.. .and with each contraction - she could squeeze really really hard... she might not mind the pain so much...
And Tom must remain quiet.... ooh, I'm all for that idea.
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Old 03-30-2006, 02:37 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I'm surprised Scientologists haven't developed a "Cone of Silence."
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Old 03-30-2006, 02:51 PM   #37 (permalink)
 
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stories like this always remind me of DIVERTOR from the SNL cartoon
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Old 03-30-2006, 02:54 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fresnelly
Interesting fact: The womb is actually a very noisy place. The fetus hears the rushing of mother's blood and pounding heart beat all the time. The relative silence outside actually comes as a bit of a shock. This is why the "Shhh." sound can be so calming for a newborn.
I had no idea; interesting nugget of information there.

When does a cult become a religion?
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Old 03-30-2006, 03:33 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maleficent
I read somewhere - that Tom bought Katie an Ipod to help keep her quiet..
WTF!! It's an ipod NOT an epidural! He can shove that up his ass along with the watermelon.
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Old 03-30-2006, 04:39 PM   #40 (permalink)
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I agree with whoever stated that maternal bonding takes place after birth...denying the child certain types of bonding after birth is what confuses me. I gave birth pretty quietly...if she wants to be quiet and not have pain meds, great...it's possible to do it. It's what's taking place AFTER the birth that bothers me. I just honestly don't understand how anyone can think that is beneficial to a child.

Nikki, that was hilarious. I nearly choked on my toast when I read it.
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