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Old 04-04-2006, 08:40 AM   #1 (permalink)
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wear your seatbelt

I knew a guy (20 years old, my boss's kid) who didn't ever wear a seatbelt. He was young and felt too cool or too invincible, or too something to wear it.

He died last night in a car accident.

He's fucking dead, ladies and gentlemen. He is not going to play poker tonight. He is not going to get laid this weekend. He is not going to surf porn, or hug his dad or watch TV, or go to work, or go to class, or take a shower... nothing. He is dead.

At least he'll never have to listen to people bitching at him to wear his seatbelt.

My wife was saved by a seatbelt. My Mom was saved by a seatbelt. I was saved by a seatbelt.

WEAR

YOUR

FUCKING

SEATBELT
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Old 04-04-2006, 08:47 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Always a good time for a reminder that airbags without seatbelt = worse injury. The airbags are designed to work with your seatbelt. If you're not wearing one, you slam into the bag as its inflating. They're important enough that Honda (possibly others) will replace worn or broken seatbelts for the life of the car, free.
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Old 04-04-2006, 08:48 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I never wear a seatbelt. I hate them, but then I believe that if you're supposed to die, you're going to die no matter what precautions you take.

I've had friends die from not wearing a seatbealt, I've had friends saved because they didn't wear a seatbelt. If it's time.. it's time.

That being said, I'm sorry to hear about the kids death. I lost a good buddy last week to a car wreck. He was wearing his seatbelt.
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Old 04-04-2006, 08:55 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guccilvr
I never wear a seatbelt. I hate them, but then I believe that if you're supposed to die, you're going to die no matter what precautions you take.

I've had friends die from not wearing a seatbealt, I've had friends saved because they didn't wear a seatbelt. If it's time.. it's time.

That being said, I'm sorry to hear about the kids death. I lost a good buddy last week to a car wreck. He was wearing his seatbelt.
That's quite the opinion. I guess it's your life, your choice. But jeez, what a wasteful opinion... and then offering the anecdotal evidence that wearing your seatbelt doesn't save lives. Of course some wrecks nullify seatbelts. It's the intermediate accidents where the seatbelt saves the head injury, as well as your body from flying out of the car.

If it's a choice over doing something I "hate" and keeping on living, I'll choose life.
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Old 04-04-2006, 08:55 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I'm terribly sorry for your loss.
and yes. Wear the fucking seatbelt guys. It's not like.."ahh wtf it bothers me, its a short trip, I'll wear it next time." An accident can be a one time thing only, so there might not be a next time. And it can happen any day. Also, keep in mind your death does not only concern you...it can tear families apart.
Please listen to clavus, because you wouldn't like seeing your own daughter/son/mother/father or anyone your close to with his face smashed and ripped through a windshield. All of those who don't wear them should google some car accident pictures, and picture your loved ones in those situations.
Please wear your seatbelt.
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Old 04-04-2006, 08:56 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Christ, why do people not wear them? I can't even drive around without one now, I feel oddly naked not wearing it.

Also, how does someone get saved by not wearing a seatbelt?
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Old 04-04-2006, 09:03 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace_O_Spades
That's quite the opinion. I guess it's your life, your choice. But jeez, what a wasteful opinion... and then offering the anecdotal evidence that wearing your seatbelt doesn't save lives. Of course some wrecks nullify seatbelts. It's the intermediate accidents where the seatbelt saves the head injury, as well as your body from flying out of the car.

If it's a choice over doing something I "hate" and keeping on living, I'll choose life.


I never said that seatbelts don't save lives. Of course they do. That's been proven, but yeah it is my life and my "wasteful" opinion not to wear one. I love the flying out of the car reference. Especially since a girlfriend of mine was told her life was saved because she was thrown out of the car. Look, here's the deal, if you're gonna die, you're gonna die. I choose not to wear one and that's me, if you feel safe wearing one by all means wear one, I'm not going to say you're stupid or wrong. To each his own.
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Old 04-04-2006, 09:17 AM   #8 (permalink)
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haha more anecdotes... lovely

note I never called you stupid OR wrong.

Yep, it's your life... Maybe if you're ever sitting in a car dying ([generic deity] forbid) you'll flash back to this thread and think about your choices.
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Old 04-04-2006, 09:19 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I guess it being a law doesnt make any difference to you either?
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Old 04-04-2006, 09:22 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaniFaye
I guess it being a law doesnt make any difference to you either?
That is the ONLY good part of living in NH... NO mandatory seat belt laws for adults
(Live free or die motto is so fitting...)
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Old 04-04-2006, 09:22 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace_O_Spades
haha more anecdotes... lovely

note I never called you stupid OR wrong.

Yep, it's your life... Maybe if you're ever sitting in a car dying ([generic deity] forbid) you'll flash back to this thread and think about your choices.

actually, I doubt I'll think about it. Maybe I will, maybe I won't.


Shani: nope, that doesn't affect my choice either. I'll pay the fine if need be.
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Old 04-04-2006, 09:26 AM   #12 (permalink)
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It's always funny watching someone be so irresponsible with their choices... Makes me wonder what everyday stuff I do that other people look at and shake their head thinking I'm an irresponsible little kid.

Yes, it's law in Canada as well, click it or ticket.
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Old 04-04-2006, 09:39 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace_O_Spades
It's always funny watching someone be so irresponsible with their choices... Makes me wonder what everyday stuff I do that other people look at and shake their head thinking I'm an irresponsible little kid.

Yes, it's law in Canada as well, click it or ticket.
That's the thing. Most people do something that someone else is going to consider being irresponsible. This just happens to be mine. I'm not saying any of this to advocate not wearing one, it's just my thought on the subject. I won't apologize for it. If I get in a car with someone and they ask me to put my seat belt on, I'll usually comply with their request because they are the ones driving and it's their car.


I've often said that you should be able to sign a waiver and pay slightly higher insurance/taxes whatever if you choose not to wear one. Of course this will never happen, because yes they do save more lives than are lost by not wearing one. I'm not avoiding that fact. I just don't want people to come in here and think I'm saying they are stupid or wrong. Everyone gains their opinions and belief structure through experiences in their lives. Yeah, I put up some anecdotes or whatever, but those were the experiences in my life that help me make the decision that I don't want to wear one. People can blast me all they want, but in the end it is still my choice, and in the end the consequences are still mine alone.
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Old 04-04-2006, 09:44 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaniFaye
I guess it being a law doesnt make any difference to you either?
Many times, laws that only effect the person who chooses whether or no to heed are ignored in the name of personal freedom. Smoking marijuana is likely the best example of this line of thinking.

If people want to be careless with their lives, that's fine with me, it's their choice. I do think, however, that people who don't wear a seatbelt should get an automatic DNR- Do Not Resuscitate. This way, the state doesn't have to pay to keep their mangled, comatose bodies alive in an Intensive Care Unit, we can go ahead and let their body expire on the street, how they wanted it. Because that's the only way their decision impacts others- the machinery used to keep them alive after being chewed up in an accident.

Very sorry to hear about that, clavus.
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Old 04-04-2006, 09:46 AM   #15 (permalink)
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But haven't you ever considered that the anecdotes you based your choice on were statistically improbable compared to the high probability of lives saved by seatbelts?

I'd actually be interested in hearing your whole rationale for not wearing a seatbelt. I hope it's not simply for the reasons listed so far, because it just seems like you're basing your choice on some bum info...
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Old 04-04-2006, 09:49 AM   #16 (permalink)
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It's guccliver's choice. He knows the score.
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Old 04-04-2006, 09:55 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Seatbelts save lives. I don't think anyone will really dispute that fact. There are rare incidents where the seatbelt might put the wearer in more danger, but those are going to be very few and far between compared to the average auto accident.

If you don't want to wear your seatbelt, that's fine with me. I don't care since you're not going to be in my car. If we're in an accident, and you end up dead, your portion of the contributory negligence is going to be higher than otherwise since you failed to take what is considered a basic step to avoid injury.

It seems to me that there are much more thrilling ways to live dangerously. If this is a way to pick up chicks, I'm going to be severely disapointed.
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Old 04-04-2006, 09:57 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by analog
If people want to be careless with their lives, that's fine with me, it's their choice. I do think, however, that people who don't wear a seatbelt should get an automatic DNR- Do Not Resuscitate. This way, the state doesn't have to pay to keep their mangled, comatose bodies alive in an Intensive Care Unit, we can go ahead and let their body expire on the street, how they wanted it. Because that's the only way their decision impacts others- the machinery used to keep them alive after being chewed up in an accident.

I'd be agreeable to this.


Ace: I'm sorry, I fail to see how people that were very close to me dying, or not dying is bum info. Sure I know the stats and I understand the risks yada yada yada, but to say that my experiences are bum info is pretty silly. Ever since I was young, I've always said that when it's your time to go, it's your time to go. I guess I've always had a pretty callous view towards death. If it happens, it happens. Now, without going off on a hijack trail, I will say that yes I do feel sad when people close to me die. That's natural.. but I don't sit there and wonder why they had to die or why it couldn't have been me. I just accept it happend and remember them as they were.

So, basically my rationale is pretty silly; but ya know, I don't care. If I change my mind later on in life, I'll let you know.
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Old 04-04-2006, 09:59 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Meh, just trying to see the method behind the madness

it's your life.
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Old 04-04-2006, 10:00 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guccilvr
That's the thing. Most people do something that someone else is going to consider being irresponsible. This just happens to be mine. I'm not saying any of this to advocate not wearing one, it's just my thought on the subject. I won't apologize for it. If I get in a car with someone and they ask me to put my seat belt on, I'll usually comply with their request because they are the ones driving and it's their car.


I've often said that you should be able to sign a waiver and pay slightly higher insurance/taxes whatever if you choose not to wear one. Of course this will never happen, because yes they do save more lives than are lost by not wearing one. I'm not avoiding that fact. I just don't want people to come in here and think I'm saying they are stupid or wrong. Everyone gains their opinions and belief structure through experiences in their lives. Yeah, I put up some anecdotes or whatever, but those were the experiences in my life that help me make the decision that I don't want to wear one. People can blast me all they want, but in the end it is still my choice, and in the end the consequences are still mine alone.
You, as is known by your own admissions, prefer to tempt death whenever possible. Whether you really don't care to live as long as you can or you have a death wish, I don't know. But rehabilitations centers are full of like-thinking young males that figure they're either gonna bite it whenever or they're too invincible for anything to happen when risk is taken. But dying when it was preventable is the single most stupid way to go. Spending the rest of your days with your eyes rolling in your head while lying in a bed or rolling in a wheelchair is a stupid way to spend your life when it was preventable.
Chance is just that. It can go for you or against you. But playing the odds against yourself, betting that you WILL lose? I'm there NOW and feel stupid for it-adding a nicotine habit to my odds. I can't imagine making the odds that much more against myself.
A woman I worked with in the school system had a 24 year old son. Two weeks before Christmas, her brother, living in Colombia, died and the son, getting word, was heading home to pack for the flight. He didn't make it. It was raining slightly, he was going way too fast on my small street, missed the curve and hit a hydrant. He was thrown out of the car and the car rolled onto him. My friend had to bury her son the day before she was to head home to bury her brother.
For every anecdote about why you wouldn't buckle up, I can give you one or two why you should. But, like you said, law or no law, it's your choice. Let's hope avoiding a fine isn't done the ultimate way.....$15,000 vs. a couple hundred?
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Old 04-04-2006, 10:08 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngdawg
You, as is known by your own admissions, prefer to tempt death whenever possible. Whether you really don't care to live as long as you can or you have a death wish, I don't know. But rehabilitations centers are full of like-thinking young males that figure they're either gonna bite it whenever or they're too invincible for anything to happen when risk is taken. But dying when it was preventable is the single most stupid way to go. Spending the rest of your days with your eyes rolling in your head while lying in a bed or rolling in a wheelchair is a stupid way to spend your life when it was preventable.
Chance is just that. It can go for you or against you. But playing the odds against yourself, betting that you WILL lose? I'm there NOW and feel stupid for it-adding a nicotine habit to my odds. I can't imagine making the odds that much more against myself.
A woman I worked with in the school system had a 24 year old son. Two weeks before Christmas, her brother, living in Colombia, died and the son, getting word, was heading home to pack for the flight. He didn't make it. It was raining slightly, he was going way too fast on my small street, missed the curve and hit a hydrant. He was thrown out of the car and the car rolled onto him. My friend had to bury her son the day before she was to head home to bury her brother.
For every anecdote about why you wouldn't buckle up, I can give you one or two why you should. But, like you said, law or no law, it's your choice. Let's hope avoiding a fine isn't done the ultimate way.....$15,000 vs. a couple hundred?

By no means do I think I'm invincible. Seriously though, if someone dies, was it not their time to die?? Can someone die and it not supposed to happen? I don't think so. You see cars that look like they came out of a sardine can and the people lived, you see cars with a small dent and the people died. It's just how the cookie crumbles. Is it fair? Probably not, but fairness doesn't really matter when it comes to death. Will I be in an institution with my eyes rolled back in my head? Everyone close to me knows DNR.

Sure you can give me the anecdotes that contradict mine. I've heard them. I understand them. I know I'm making a choice that isn't with the odds. It's just me.

I'm failing to see the $15,000 thing.
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Old 04-04-2006, 10:10 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guccilvr
By no means do I think I'm invincible. Seriously though, if someone dies, was it not their time to die?? Can someone die and it not supposed to happen? I don't think so. You see cars that look like they came out of a sardine can and the people lived, you see cars with a small dent and the people died. It's just how the cookie crumbles. Is it fair? Probably not, but fairness doesn't really matter when it comes to death. Will I be in an institution with my eyes rolled back in my head? Everyone close to me knows DNR.

Sure you can give me the anecdotes that contradict mine. I've heard them. I understand them. I know I'm making a choice that isn't with the odds. It's just me.

I'm failing to see the $15,000 thing.
Funeral costs, babe....
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Old 04-04-2006, 10:19 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Funeral costs, babe....

oh, well yeah those are covered.
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Old 04-04-2006, 10:34 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I believe the fundamental error in your thinking is that you hypothesize any possible time of death is that person's "time". Think of this: My walk to the grocery store takes me along a busy street (Hastings) as it enters a busy highway. If I chose suddenly to jump out into traffic and be struck by a bus, it doesn't change the fact that my time could have kept going if I hadn't chosen to jump out into traffic. There are infinite possibilities for death every day, and the likelihood of those events are independent of eachother. So by you not choosing to wear your seatbelt, simply deny yourself further life, possibly ended by some other randomly occurring death. Why not simply take measures to enhance life... are you truly that eager to meet your death?

You're asking, what rational person WOULD jump out into traffic on a whim and end their life? I point you to the Stoics of the ancient Roman empire who held suicide as man's highest measure of freedom of choice. Certainly there are still people around today who hold this. For instance, what was the motivation behind Suicide Club. Now as you proposed earlier, we aren't discounting statistically improbable elements in our hypothesis. If you're allowed to have your life experience, I'm allowed to have past life experience.

Just an alternate viewpoint.

[edit]

God I got a good chuckle about remembering the time I watched Suicide Club... what a fantastically ridiculous movie. It made no sense what so ever.
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Old 04-04-2006, 11:06 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Hrm I'll have to watch that sometime. I've always kinda viewed suicide as a beautiful thing. No I wouldn't do it, and I do find it silly in some instances, but I do think it's controlling you're own life. Is it weak?? Well I guess that depends on the person. I've always been one to test my luck but I've never viewed seatbelts as pressing my luck. I do however still view time valid in the instance of suicide. That person was supposed to die at that point. It doesn't matter how it was done. Car wreck, overdose, serial killer, suicide. Death is death. When it happens.. it's supposed to happen.

Now, before you tear apart my rationale, I completely see your alternative viewpoint. I understand where and what you are trying to say. Again, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

As far as enchancing life, I think I enchance my own life as I see fit. Everyone has a different viewpoint on enchancing life. Some people view a life of solidarity in a brazilian jungle as a life enchancement. I do not.

I just don't think anyone can every truly safeguard themselves to the point that they are less likely to die. A person can eat healthy, work out, wear seatbelts, live in a bubble, whatever, but they are still gonna die when it's their turn. Take your sig for instance, "The only sure thing in life is death." That is the absolute truth. The question of time is the only matter involved in death that is unknown. That unknown is what makes me come to the conclusion of "when it's time, it's time."

:shrug:
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Old 04-04-2006, 02:32 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guccilvr
Everyone gains their opinions and belief structure through experiences in their lives.
Some of these beliefs and opinions though can come from the examples set by others. We (my family) used to never wear seat belts. My wife and I decided once that the children would be far safer though bucked up. And of course we could not expect them to do so unless we practiced what we preached. Since we have started using seat belts it has become such a habit that I find myself reaching for one when I get in a golf cart. I suspect that in the long run if we are ever in a car accident we will fair better with them than without them.
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Old 04-04-2006, 11:04 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guccilvr
and in the end the consequences are still mine alone.
No, they affect everyone around you. Seriously, I wouldn't want to be one of your relatives or friends, because you don't care how much pain you could cause them to have.
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Old 04-04-2006, 11:38 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I think I'm the only one of my group of friends who always wears a seatbelt. It seems every time I get into one of their cars, they're telling me that I don't need it because they "drive safe enough"...

Whatever. It's habit for me now.

Sorry to hear about that, clavus!
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Old 04-04-2006, 11:47 PM   #29 (permalink)
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i'm sorry to hear of that Clavus and sorry for his loved ones for his loss.

And... i wear mine. And my car doesn't move until everyone in it has theirs on.

Thanks for the reminder.

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Old 04-05-2006, 12:24 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I tend to "forget" to put mine on when I get into the car and drive down the road. The weird thing is that I'll always remember to put it on when I'm getting onto a freeway. Maybe I subconsciously think that I won't get into a head-on on a little suburban road.

My company car's a little Opel (Vauxhall) Corsa 2-door. I find myself NOT wearing the seatbelt in that car more often, merely because it's uncomfortable (it sits really high up - almost on my neck - and isn't height-adjustable) and a bit more restricting than the one on my own car. Not a very good reason, I know.

Sorry for your loss, Clavus.
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Old 04-05-2006, 12:25 AM   #31 (permalink)
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First: I wear my seatbelt. It's so automatic I don't even think about it anymore.

Second: I get your idea, guccilvr, about when it's your time to die, it's your time to die. I don't quite understand why you wouldn't want to mitigate your chances of dying early, but that's your choice.

Third: Guccilvr, I liked that you said you'll buckle up when asked to in someone else's car. However, I would hope for other passenger's sake that you would do it even when not asked to - at least if you're in the back seat. If you're in the back seat and you're not wearing your seatbelt and you get in a collision, your body becomes a weapon. You can do some serious damage if you fly into the back of the seat of the person in front of you.

I don't want to sound preachy, it's just something to consider.

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Old 04-05-2006, 01:52 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Well, what you're saying (guccilvr) sounds a lot like the belief in fate. That what happens was meant to happen.

So are you saying that, if a person is meant to die at a particular time, the seatbelt will never prevent this? Meaning, when death comes, the concept of Fate is such that your circumstances are irrelevent- death will have you, no matter how it claims you?

I've never been big on "fate", but I can see how a strong belief in fate could lead to this conclusion abotu seat belts not making any difference.

I still don't agree, but I can extract the argument based on that belief.
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Old 04-05-2006, 02:14 AM   #33 (permalink)
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I'll bet that people who don't wear seatbelts also think they're above average drivers. I believe I'm an above average driver, myself.

Maybe I am but what I also consider is the thousands of completely fucking useless licensed drivers I have to share the road with.

Here's a realistic looking video of a head on collision, played in reverse:
http://www.thinkroadsafety.gov.uk/ca.../backwards.mpg


Here's a slightly amusing video from the 60's showing how to wear a seatbelt, simplified so that even a lady can understand:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/avdb/new...85_16x9_bb.asx

(might not work outside GB)
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Old 04-05-2006, 02:52 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchanal
I think I'm the only one of my group of friends who always wears a seatbelt. It seems every time I get into one of their cars, they're telling me that I don't need it because they "drive safe enough"...

Whatever. It's habit for me now.

Sorry to hear about that, clavus!

Thats when you tell them its not THEIR driving you're worried about, its everyone elses!!

Maybe its just me, but with everything guccilvr has said, its all about death...what about when you dont die but you become an invalid in someway (note I didnt say vegetable cause you already addressed the DNR thing) but the ton of money/time it would take to take care of you perpetually because the wreck didnt kill you, but maimed you for life? People keep equating no seatbelt with death.....death is the easy way out...how many people out there have to spend the rest of their lives dependant on someone else for their (IMO) stupid and selfish decision?
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Old 04-05-2006, 03:00 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavel_lishin
Christ, why do people not wear them? I can't even drive around without one now, I feel oddly naked not wearing it.

I feel naked without a seatbelt too. It it holds me in place and if I did have to hit the brakes or jerk the wheel to avoid something I wouldn't be tossed around and end up losing control of the vehicle. Although it is mainly a life saving device, It's also a wreck prevention device.
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Old 04-05-2006, 04:02 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by analog
If people want to be careless with their lives, that's fine with me, it's their choice. I do think, however, that people who don't wear a seatbelt should get an automatic DNR- Do Not Resuscitate. This way, the state doesn't have to pay to keep their mangled, comatose bodies alive in an Intensive Care Unit, we can go ahead and let their body expire on the street, how they wanted it. Because that's the only way their decision impacts others- the machinery used to keep them alive after being chewed up in an accident.
I don't even think the ambulance should attend the scene. Just the tow truck and street sweepers to clean up the mess afterwards, then send the bill to the dead guy's estate.
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Old 04-05-2006, 04:22 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ShaniFaye
I guess it being a law doesnt make any difference to you either?
That law isn't as much about saving lives as it is about checking papers and searching cars. With that being said I always wear one because usually you are better off wearing it. However, it definetly should not be a law and I respect someone's choice to not wear one.
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Old 04-05-2006, 04:26 AM   #38 (permalink)
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I guess its just me, but I dont support the example it would set for my daughter by not doing it. Its telling her that its ok to ignore a law just because she might think its stupid.
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Old 04-05-2006, 05:18 AM   #39 (permalink)
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I've never been big on "fate",

Nor have I. The fate argument gives you the excuse to never do anything hard. "Well I got a 3 on the SAT's. . It was fate, not the fact that I never prepped for it and got high half an hour before the test."

Same with the seatbelt argument IMO. If you tempt "fate" by not wearing your seatbelt then "fate" might just decide to call your bluff early.
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Old 04-05-2006, 06:32 AM   #40 (permalink)
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I always wear a seatbelt, and it has saved me from not death but at least broken limbs and/or smashed-up face. It's not death I worry about - because when you're dead you're dead - but injuries. I hate being injured, I hate pain, and wearing a seatbelt definitely minimises the crushing smashing being thrown around like a ragdoll bit. So seatbelt on for me.
(On a sidenote: my mom has FINALLY replaced her old rustbucket deathtrap of a car with a modern safe car! Now if she can only learn to change the channel on the radio without turning on the windshield wipers, I'll feel much better about her driving around.)
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