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Old 04-20-2003, 01:30 PM   #1 (permalink)
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veteran's discussion

I started this in v.3 and it was beginning to pick up, with the help of a few of the veterans in our midst such as rockogre, sandman, i8one2, anredux2002, reconmike, and zerocode. Here's the deal: Some of you veterans may have things on your mind that you want to talk about, joke about, discuss, get out in the open, or otherwise get out of your heads. THIS IS THE PLACE TO DO IT! If you are a current serviceman or veteran of any period of service (doesn't have to be combat or a specific "conflict") come on in and hang out.
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- Robert S. McNamara
-----------------------------------------
"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
-----------------------------------------
never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
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Old 04-20-2003, 03:13 PM   #2 (permalink)
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What must be kept alive is the spirit of the days on the calender that used to mean something very special to this country. All of the fallen comrades who have given the lives or have been harmed for serving their country with honor and sacrifice.

the commercialization of any holiday, but especially the ones that honor our soldiers or freedom is a complete disgrace.

YUP! I know that I'll be running around all the stores looking for that 15% savings on Memorial Day day. NOT!

There is a great opportunity have these days to have significance again... but will there really be a shift from buy, buy, buy to patriotism in the the long term??
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Old 04-20-2003, 03:20 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Great point i8,
What really pisses me off is those friggen japanese car comericals on memorial day. I would love to see a big VJ day sale or a Hirshima Toyota blowout event.

And now I have seen jeep comericals showing them in WW2, saying the spirt lives on....Hello they were built to defeat the germans, same people that now own the company.

Sorry rant over.
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Old 04-20-2003, 03:26 PM   #4 (permalink)
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if you need to rant, that's what this thread is about, among other things...rant on...
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"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
-----------------------------------------
"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
-----------------------------------------
never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.
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Old 04-20-2003, 03:37 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I'm sorry but commercialism is here to stay and has been for quite some time now. We know that but what do you suppose can be done? Hell, look what they've done to the birth of Christ. Do you really think Easter is about jelly beans? As far as we go, I'd kinda be happy just to have a day off work on Veterans Day.
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Old 04-20-2003, 03:48 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Hey paddyjoe,
Me and my boss had alittle disagreement last year about veterans day, I just wanted it off and some other guy had wanted it off to because it was the day before his birthday.
He gave him off and I bugged.
this year I have it as a paid holiday.
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Old 04-20-2003, 03:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
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New roots grow in fertile soil. Glad to see the thread restarted in this newest endeavor Uncle Phil.

A few years ago our local Wal-Mart asked the scout troop I help with to dispose of several hundred American flags in the appropriate manner, and it took several campouts to do this. It seems that the flags in question were made in China and no one would buy them. I found it nice to know that the almighty buck doesn't always win, and that Wal-Mart occasionally learns a lesson.

Sometimes it matters to me if someone is a combat veteran. Not for anything bad, but that they had to put forth the supreme effort and put their life on the line, and should be honored for it. I am not a combat veterean. I am what's known as a Vietnam Era veteran. I'm still proud to be a U.S. Navy veteran though.

God Bless America and our service people everywhere.
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Old 04-20-2003, 06:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I have a beef with the Army CIB. Those without an infinitry MOS can't wear it. That means those soldiers from the 507th Maint (among others in Iraq) that took and returned fire can't show their experience. This is true for all conflicts, but everytime something like this pops up, I get a little pissed.

Support troops outnumber infintry by about 5:1. Alot of those support soldiers fight just as hard as the ground pounders to keep them supplied with beans and bullets. There should be some kind of recognition, other than a Purple Heart and a Theater Ribbon for those non "11'S" that engage the enemy in a firefight.
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Old 04-24-2003, 09:15 AM   #9 (permalink)
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ok, memorial day is coming up in about a month. do you guys think it holds the same significance as veteran's day? do you think it is considered more worthy of recognition than veteran's day? less?
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- Robert S. McNamara
-----------------------------------------
"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
-----------------------------------------
never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.
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Old 04-24-2003, 09:32 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Memorial day gets a lot of attention but most of the attention seems to be that people are off for the holiday. Here, in Oklahoma, it marks the start of lake / camping season. Our local lake will be packed with boats and drunken morons.

I usually go to the cemetary on Memorial Day and clean family plots and leave flowers. I see several folks while I am there but then this is a small town.

Veterans day barely gets a nod around here and the company I work for pretty much ignores it which just goes all over me.
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Old 04-24-2003, 09:44 AM   #11 (permalink)
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"Sometimes it matters to me if someone is a combat veteran. Not for anything bad, but that they had to put forth the supreme effort and put their life on the line, and should be honored for it. I am not a combat veterean. I am what's known as a Vietnam Era veteran. I'm still proud to be a U.S. Navy veteran though.

God Bless America and our service people everywhere."

What Rockogre said! Works for me!
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Old 04-24-2003, 10:20 AM   #12 (permalink)
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To me, Memorial Day holds a bit more significance. To honor all that were killed during times of war also includes in my mind, civilians and people like contract workers that weren't actual military.

Believe me, Veterans Day is not far behind in importance because I am a Vietnam War era veteran and did lose some friends to that debacle. All in my family are veterans of one war or another so I do hold that day in reverance too.

Here's something for you guys to try. Walk through work, or the supermarket, or the park, or even the mall and ask people what their thoughts are on Memorial Day. I'm kinda thinking 7 out of 10 give the big dumb grin and say golly yeah, long weekend! I'm hoping that's not the case, but I sorta doubt it.

Anyhow, here's a couple of links for you to check out:

www.usmemorialday.org
www.va.gov/vetsday/

God Bless America
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Old 04-25-2003, 06:16 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ratman
I have a beef with the Army CIB. Those without an infinitry MOS can't wear it. That means those soldiers from the 507th Maint (among others in Iraq) that took and returned fire can't show their experience. This is true for all conflicts, but everytime something like this pops up, I get a little pissed.

Support troops outnumber infintry by about 5:1. Alot of those support soldiers fight just as hard as the ground pounders to keep them supplied with beans and bullets. There should be some kind of recognition, other than a Purple Heart and a Theater Ribbon for those non "11'S" that engage the enemy in a firefight.
They would qualify for the Combat Action Ribbon, right? I know the few times when I see that on a person, my initial impression of them jumps a few notches. Then again, I'm in the Navy and very few squids (other than SEALs) have those. Usually helo aircrewmen.

-Mikey
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Old 04-25-2003, 06:25 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I work in a place populated largely with retured officers. We get a choice between Veterans day and MLK. I've never seen anyone choose MLK day.
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Old 04-25-2003, 06:26 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by MikeyChalupa
They would qualify for the Combat Action Ribbon, right? I know the few times when I see that on a person, my initial impression of them jumps a few notches. Then again, I'm in the Navy and very few squids (other than SEALs) have those. Usually helo aircrewmen.

-Mikey
Correct. I was a helo pilot, and proudly wore my CAR.
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Old 04-30-2003, 01:32 PM   #16 (permalink)
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bump...
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"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
-----------------------------------------
"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
-----------------------------------------
never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.
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Old 04-30-2003, 04:18 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I was not in the service, and hope you don't mind my intrusion on this thread, but thanks to all of you who served the US. Civilians don't say it often enough, especially in peacetime - not just when it is in vogue. So thanks.
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Old 04-30-2003, 04:24 PM   #18 (permalink)
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thank you, apetaster...
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"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
-----------------------------------------
"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
-----------------------------------------
never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.
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Old 04-30-2003, 06:07 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Im with apetaster I didnt want intrude, but thank each one of the verterans that helped make this country (the US) what it is. Thank you. I'd salute you if I had earn the right, so my hat is off to you.

uncle phil what does bump mean?
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Old 04-30-2003, 06:18 PM   #20 (permalink)
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g-dub, when a thread gets buried two or three pages and you want to revitalize it, all you have to do is enter a comment, like "bump," and it comes back to the top of the first page...
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"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
-----------------------------------------
"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
-----------------------------------------
never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.
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Old 04-30-2003, 06:29 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Old 05-01-2003, 05:14 AM   #22 (permalink)
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i guess you can add me to the list

i came across this quote recently and it got me thinking a little about the Iraq War...
Quote:
It took longer for Janet Reno to take over the Branch Davidians in Waco than it did our guys to take over Iraq. - John Layfield, aka Bradshaw, of World Wrestling Entertainment, Inc. fame
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Old 05-05-2003, 07:55 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I guess that proves Janet Reno doesn't know what the fuck she's doing.
No suprise there.
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Old 05-08-2003, 08:09 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Janet Reno, she really cracks me up. How clueless can someone be and still breath?

And a bump.
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Old 05-23-2003, 05:32 PM   #25 (permalink)
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bump...for memorial day...
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"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
-----------------------------------------
"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
-----------------------------------------
never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.
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Old 05-24-2003, 01:45 PM   #26 (permalink)
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it's kinda funny. I come from a military background family, so that was a major influence on me. I joined at the age of 17 while I was a sophmore in highschool, and this was the time of the Persian Gulf War. Only problem was, they wouldn't let me go overseas until I graduated highschool.

By that time The Gulf War was over and Clinton soon took over. Military morale was at an all time low because he didn't support the miltary. He forced a "downsizing" of the military and was even offering money to troops if they decided to leave/ quit the service early. I remember one particular incident when some Marines greeted President Clinton and as he passed by they did an about face and turned their back on him, fuckin' halarious...
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Old 05-24-2003, 01:55 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I have to agree that people have lost the meaning of Vetrans and Memorial day. I am currently in the Navy, and the town I am currently in is arround just because of the base, but the only mention off of base about memorial day is the sales signs. It really pisses me off.
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Old 05-24-2003, 06:00 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I think you're correct paddyjoe, people around here think river for Memorial day I don't even think some of the people I work with know why they have the day off. I'm working Monday because it's my year to do so, but I will still take some time to remember all my fallen brothers (and sisters).

Semper Fidelis
John
USMC 92-00
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Old 05-24-2003, 09:10 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I've never heard it mentioned anywhere that a Korean made vehicle called "KIA" isn't noteworthy or ironic.
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Old 05-24-2003, 11:15 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Well, damn. Now I can't NOT think about what the hell "KIA" is supposed to mean, especially since it's spelled in all caps...

And to all you men and women out there in the armed forces... my hat is off to all of you. I may not agree with what the military does and where they do it, but I sure as hell can see why it exists, and why you all deserve every second of Memorial Day and Veteran's Day and more. Keep fighting the good fight.
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Old 05-26-2003, 10:35 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I just saw a Home Depot commercial the only thing it mentioned about this weekend was to go into their stores and get your home improvement stuff so you can make the most of the three day weekend. To me that is more fucked up than anything especially when they say they support our troops.
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Old 05-26-2003, 08:39 PM   #32 (permalink)
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How pathetic! Most of the stores were open, including mine! although my boss and I are vets..We have to be because we are mom and pop. But Seeing the people out there shopping and not even getting the fact that nearly one million soldiers have died to protect this country just sucks! What really made me thing for a few moments is that a Mexican owned business was on of the few in my neighborhood that was indeed closed for the right reasons and said so on his doors..HATS OFF TO HIM..and he will be getting even more business from me now!
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Old 05-26-2003, 09:20 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Thank You Veterans!!
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Old 05-29-2003, 05:16 AM   #34 (permalink)
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This seems like a good place to post the fact that today is Bob Hopes 100th birthday. He spent many days, weeks, and months doing what he could to help our military folks forget their troubles for a little while. Many of us love him for what he did.

Take a moment to remember this unique man.
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Old 05-29-2003, 08:23 AM   #35 (permalink)
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What's the funnest weapon you shot while in the service?

For me; I would say a Howitzer, but theres nothing special about pulling a cord other than the power you know is behind it.

It would be between 50 cal and M203 for me.

Does anyone know if theres any truth that the AK in AK47 stood for American Killer?
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Old 05-29-2003, 08:43 AM   #36 (permalink)
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I got to shoot the dual, deck mounted, foot triggered, 20 millimeter machine guns one day on our ship. Barrells were thrown over the side and we had target practice.

YEEEEEEEEHHHHAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!

(I think that they were 20 MM. Heck, I was an electrician.)
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One died for your soul, the other for your freedom

Last edited by rockogre; 05-29-2003 at 08:48 AM..
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Old 05-29-2003, 01:34 PM   #37 (permalink)
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every once in a while we would go up over nha trang in an HH3-E (i believe that was the helicopter that ARRS squadrons used) and shoot at sharks off hon tre (sp?) island with AR-15s...it was a rush sometimes...
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"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
-----------------------------------------
"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
-----------------------------------------
never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.
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Old 05-29-2003, 02:38 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I only got to fire the good ole m-16. but it was still cool.
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Old 05-29-2003, 04:27 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Military Rules for the Non-Military Personnel

Dear Civilians, We know that the current state of affairs in our great nation have many civilians up in arms and excited to join the military.
For those of you who can't join, you can still lend a hand. Here are a few of the areas we would like your assistance:

1) The next time you see an adult talking (or wearing a hat) during the playing of the National Anthem... kick their ass.

2) When you witness firsthand someone burning the American Flag in protest... kick their ass.

3) Regardless of the rank they held while they served, pay the highest amount of respect to all veterans. If you see anyone doing otherwise, quietly pull them aside and explain how these Veterans fought for the very freedom they bask in every second. Enlighten them on the many
sacrifices these Veterans made to make this Nation great. Then hold them down while a Disabled Veteran kicks their ass.

4) If you were never in the military, DO NOT pretend that you were. Wearing camouflage, telling others that you used to be "Special Forces," and collecting GI Joe memorabilia, might have been okay if you were still seven. Now, it will only make you look stupid and get your ass kicked.

5) Next time you come across an Air Force member, do not ask them, "Do you fly a jet?" Not everyone in the Air Force is a pilot. Such ignorance deserves an ass kicking (children are exempt).

6) If you witness someone calling the U.S. Coast Guard nonmilitary, inform them of their mistake... and kick their ass.

7) Roseanne Barr's singing of the National Anthem is not a blooper...it was a disgrace and disrespectful. Laugh, and sooner or later your
ass will be kicke! d.
8) Next time Old Glory goes by during a parade, get on your damn feet and pay homage to her by placing your hand ov! er your heart. Quietly thank
the military member or veteran lucky enough to be carrying her... of course, failure to do either of those could earn you a severe ass kicking.

9) What Jane Fonda did during the Vietnam War makes her the enemy. Just mention her nomination for "Woman of the Year" and get your ass kicked.
10) Don't try to discuss politics with a military member or a veteran. We are Americans and we all bleed the same regardless of our party affiliation. The President is our Commander in Chief regardless of political party. We have no inside track on what happens inside those big important
buildings where all those representatives meet. All we know is that when those civilian representatives screw up the situation, they call upon the military to go straighten it out. The military member might direct you to Oliver North. (I can see him kicking your ass already.)

11) "Your mama wears combat boots" never made sense to me. If she did, she would most likely be a vet and, therefore, could kick your ass!

12) Bin Laden and the Taliban are not communists, so stop saying "Let's go kill those Commie's!!!" And stop asking us where he is!!!! Crystal balls are not standard issue in the military. That reminds me ... if you see anyone calling those damn psychic phone numbers; let me know, so I can go kick their ass.

13) Flyboy (Air Force), Jar Head (Marines), Grunt (Army), Squid (Navy), etc., are terms of endearment we use describing each other. Unless you are a service member or vet, you have not earned the right to use them. Doing so will get your ass kicked.

14) Last but not least, whether or not you become a member of the military, support our troops and their families. Every Thanksgiving and religious holiday that you enjoy with family and friends, please remember that there are literally thousands of sailors and troops far from home wishing they could be with their families. Thank God for our military and the sacrifices they make every day. Without them, our country wou! ld get i ts ass kicked.

- "It is the soldier, not the reporter w! ho has g iven us the freedom of the press.

- It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.

- It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.

- It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag."

(Authored by Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, Sergeant, USMC (Please pass this on so I won't have to kick your ass!)



I know this letter has a defect but the point still holds true
for me. Proud veteran of 12+ years service.
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Why do they sterilize the needle for lethal injections?
Only in America......do we use the word 'politics' to describe the process so well: 'Poli' in Latin meaning 'many' and 'tics' meaning 'bloodsucking creatures'.
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Old 05-29-2003, 04:33 PM   #40 (permalink)
comfortably numb...
 
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i'm not a big ollie north fan, but my comments, if i make any, will probably go on the politics thread...anyhow, great post yabobo...
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"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
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"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
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never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.
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