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Old 04-20-2006, 06:39 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Phony Doctor "Busted" For Door-To-Door Breast Exam

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Phony Doctor "Busted" For Door-To-Door Breast Exam

Meet Philip Winikoff. The 76-year-old Florida man was arrested this morning and charged with sexual battery after he posed as a doctor and went door-to-door--black doctor's bag in hand--offering women free breast exams. According to a Broward County Sheriff's Office report, two women--ages 33 and 36--fell for the scam, which Winikoff allegedly ran in Lauderdale Lakes. Charged with several felonies, Winikoff was booked into the sheriff's lockup, where the below mug shot was snapped. Police are now investigating whether other women may have been tricked into impromptu examinations.
According to the police report he got busted because in both cases he inserted his fingers in their vaginas.

Quote:
Phony doctor gives free breast exams

MIAMI (Reuters) - A 76-year-old man claiming to be a doctor went door-to-door in a Florida neighborhood offering free breast exams, and was charged with sexually assaulting two women who accepted the offer, police said on Thursday.

One woman became suspicious after the man asked her to remove all her clothes and began conducting a purported genital exam without donning rubber gloves, investigators said.

The woman then phoned the Broward County Sheriff's Office and the suspect fled. He was arrested at another woman's apartment in the same Lauderdale Lakes neighborhood on Wednesday, a sheriff's spokesman said.

The white-haired suspect, Philip Winikoff, carried a black bag and claimed to be visiting on behalf of a local hospital.

"He told the woman that he was in the neighborhood offering free breast exams," sheriff's spokesman Hugh Graf said in a statement.

At least two women, both in their 30s, let him into their homes and he fondled and sexually assaulted them, the investigators said.

Winikoff was not a doctor, Graf said. He worked as a shuttle driver for an auto dealership.
How do people fall for this crap?

Yeah, sympathies for the woman, but common sense should have kicked in.
A. Why is this free?
B. Why is some random doctor coming up to my door?

...

Y'know basic stuff.
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Old 04-20-2006, 06:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I feel really badly that these women were taken advantage of. That being said, this man is among the funniest men ever born. What he did was horrible, but the fact that he almost got away with it is amazing.

1) He's 76
2) He gives breast exams....door to door
3) He asked the women to remove their clothes and have them genital exams (you know, like all breast exams...)
4) the women were in their 30s

Either this man is a genius, or these women were complete and utter dinks. Get it? Utter? Sorry.
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Old 04-20-2006, 10:55 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Not sure it’s really genius as much as preying on women who probably had a real strong anxiety regarding cancer of this nature and detecting it. They might not have been the brightess, but I believe it was fear that drove their judgement. He is just a predator, nothing funny here in my mind.
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Old 04-20-2006, 11:23 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Nothing funny indeed, more like sad that they lack that much common sense.

Like Linda said: basic stuff.

If they're in their mid 30s, they most likely went to a couple of breast exams if they're that anxious about breast cancer.
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Old 04-20-2006, 11:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Old 04-21-2006, 12:45 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Jesus. H. Christ.

They fell for it? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Ever. Seriously. Not only does it beat all stupidity heretofore, but i'm carving it somewhere permanent so that all future stupidity can be measured against it.

I really can't feel sympathy for these women. At all. I'm flabbergasted that people are capable of being this stupid. On top of the initial premise, they got totally naked?

I really can't feel that they were "preyed" on... it's crappy that it happened, sure... but this is just too stupid to feel bad for them. We're not talking about young people, or people of diminished mental capabilities, or the elderly... they're just idiots.

You know what they call people who are too gullible? They call them boobs. This just proves that "boobs" is the perfect moniker for such an individual.
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Old 04-21-2006, 04:03 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I'm waiting for people to come in here and say this guy is more fucked up than the killer in the other thread that wants to eat children, just because the old doctor impersonator isn't crazy.

Either way, I find it somewhat humorous that the women actually fell for this, but I'm not that surprised. There are many, many gullible people in the world that will believe anything you say (literally).
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Old 04-21-2006, 04:32 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Old 04-21-2006, 05:11 AM   #9 (permalink)
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This made me smile and shake my head. I may seem totally unfeeling here but I'm so completely amazed that these women fell for this. Anyone coming to my door like that would surely make me have dozens of red flags go up.

I find this funny. I'm picturing this elderly man acting all innocent and professional and the women so stupid as to unclothe themselve before seeing any credentials. How stupid can you get?
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Old 04-21-2006, 05:18 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I haven't seen a picture of this guy, but the age of the guy doesn't bother me, I don't quite see him as a doddering old man as some of the young whippersnappers do... My last gynocoligist was an older man - probably in his late 70s... There was something oddly comforting about him... young attractive gynocolgists have always given me the willies.

However, unless there was notice given to the community where these women lived, what kind of fool allows a strange male into your home, when you are there alone, and then gets naked... If a doctor was giving door to door breast exams (and for the moment, I'll make an assumption that this could be a poor community, where people don't have access to adequate healthcare) wouldn't the community be informed first?

I can't beleive people, in this day and age, at that age, would be that naive... (Crap, I ask for identification when the maintenance guys come into my apartment... and I called them...)
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Old 04-21-2006, 08:10 AM   #11 (permalink)
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God I love living in Florida! You ever notice whenever something really stupid like this happens its always here.
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Old 04-21-2006, 08:47 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by analog
Jesus. H. Christ.

They fell for it? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Ever. Seriously. Not only does it beat all stupidity heretofore, but i'm carving it somewhere permanent so that all future stupidity can be measured against it.

I really can't feel sympathy for these women. At all. I'm flabbergasted that people are capable of being this stupid. On top of the initial premise, they got totally naked?

I really can't feel that they were "preyed" on... it's crappy that it happened, sure... but this is just too stupid to feel bad for them. We're not talking about young people, or people of diminished mental capabilities, or the elderly... they're just idiots.

You know what they call people who are too gullible? They call them boobs. This just proves that "boobs" is the perfect moniker for such an individual.
Yes they were gullible, and could very well be very stupid. But you can't feel sympathy for someone clearly not as intellectually developed and superior us you?

Lets say they were as smart as a gullible 10 year old that got in a van for some candy... is that funny?

Maybe they were too trusting in the willingness of others to help their fellow human being (I still believe it's more likely they were just scared to death of breast cancer, hence how he exploited that fear). They'll never make that mistake again I'm sure, and that just makes this world a sadder place.
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Old 04-21-2006, 09:05 AM   #13 (permalink)
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If this guy had been, say, a dentist and examined/molested these women during their dental exam, we'd all be up in arms.

If this guy had fondled these women without permission, we'd be all up in arms.

If this guy had claimed that he was a door-to-door bra salesman and copped a feel that way, it would still be funny.

Are we wrong to laugh and feel superior when someone does something stupid? Does it make me a bad person that I think its kind of funny that a guy in Singapore jumped off a building because he thought his penis was too small? Am I a bad person because I think it's funny that a judge in Kansas (I think) was caught masturbating while listening to testamony not once but numerous times? And what's up with me thinking it's funny that Elvis, the King of Rock and Roll, died while sitting on his throne?

Guess I'm going to hell. See you all there. I'll bring some beer.
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Old 04-21-2006, 09:12 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topper
Yes they were gullible, and could very well be very stupid. But you can't feel sympathy for someone clearly not as intellectually developed and superior us you?

Lets say they were as smart as a gullible 10 year old that got in a van for some candy... is that funny?

Maybe they were too trusting in the willingness of others to help their fellow human being (I still believe it's more likely they were just scared to death of breast cancer, hence how he exploited that fear). They'll never make that mistake again I'm sure, and that just makes this world a sadder place.
There is a HUGE difference between a 10 year old child and grown women in their 30's.
Stupid is as stupid does.
Mal, Here's a pic of the old geezer: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12409277/
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Old 04-21-2006, 09:18 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Don't see how there really should be anything funny in sexual molestation. No matter how stupid the victim was.

And for the record I too find your other examples (though they aren't really comparable to someone’s trust and physical bodies being violated) funny.

Guess I know too many women who have been seriously hurt by abuse. But whether it was their poor judgment or not that led to it, I don't feel the need to point and laugh and convince myself I'm superior.
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Old 04-21-2006, 09:25 AM   #16 (permalink)
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so a young person killing themself because they thought their penis was too small is funnier than a grown woman allowing a stranger into her home, willingly disrobing for him and allowing a total stranger to touch her...
These women used absolutely NO common sense.... On what planet do home breast exams happen, expect at a college fraternity perhaps...
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Old 04-21-2006, 09:28 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngdawg
There is a HUGE difference between a 10 year old child and grown women in their 30's.
Stupid is as stupid does.
Mal, Here's a pic of the old geezer: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12409277/
My point was sexual molestation is never funny, no matter the situation, the age, or how gullible the victim is. And for all we know these women were as smart and naive as children. Does that make it funny then? I know LOTS of stupid people, gullible people, complete morons. I know lots of people held hostage by their own fears and anxieties. People are stupid, there is no surprise there. But it would not be their fault if I decided to abuse and exploit those.

Guess I just don't have much sense of humor and too much sympathy regarding people getting violated. *shrug*

EDIT: Oh and I do see your point Mal, I was more so referring to the judge.
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Old 04-21-2006, 09:33 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topper
Yes they were gullible, and could very well be very stupid. But you can't feel sympathy for someone clearly not as intellectually developed and superior us you?

Lets say they were as smart as a gullible 10 year old that got in a van for some candy... is that funny?
Like I said, they're not of a diminished mental capacity (mental retardation of any form).

Sometimes we wish that we wouldn't laugh at certain things. I think a lot of that has more to do with feeling guilty that someone will judge or chide us for laughing at it, than actually feeling guilty ourselves for laughing at it.

I don't need to feel mentally superior to people, and my judgment of them doesn't come from a place of superiority- expecting common sense to prevail in the case of a 33 and 36 year old should not be that lofty of an expectation.

The real problem is, we expect less and less of people. People win lawsuits for spilling hot coffee in their lap and blaming the restaurant for it burning them- because they weren't warned it would be hot... weren't warned that coffee- a hot beverage- would be hot. And won. Did you know that the packaging of all BIRTH CONTROL states in big, bold letters, "Do not use this product if you intend to become pregnant"? Because some people are so stupid, that they have tried to become pregnant while on birth control and couldn't figure out why they couldn't conceive.

We have lowered the bar, time and time again, to allow the very dumbest among us to get away with their stupidities, while we pat them on the back and say "there, there... it's ok." I will not lower the bar. Perhaps if we didn't placate everyone so much, people would grow up a bit and get a thicker skin.
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Old 04-21-2006, 09:48 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topper
Don't see how there really should be anything funny in sexual molestation. No matter how stupid the victim was.

And for the record I too find your other examples (though they aren't really comparable to someone’s trust and physical bodies being violated) funny.

Guess I know too many women who have been seriously hurt by abuse. But whether it was their poor judgment or not that led to it, I don't feel the need to point and laugh and convince myself I'm superior.
As a victim, I kind of know when (now, at least-didn't know back then) the antenna should go up. I'm not saying they got what they deserved, but where was their common sense? I liken this to those people who fall for the lottery scam.
We all fall for something-a line, a con, but some old man comes to the door offering free breast exams, they get undressed and never think, 'wait a sec....I don't know this guy'? I wouldn't let him in if he'd offered to check my facial zits!!! At what point do we say 'stop'? It's not a matter of superiority complexes, it's a matter of using some common sense and always following your gut instincts. You gotta ask these women, WTF were you thinking???
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Old 04-21-2006, 09:51 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maleficent
so a young person killing themself because they thought their penis was too small is funnier than a grown woman allowing a stranger into her home, willingly disrobing for him and allowing a total stranger to touch her...
These women used absolutely NO common sense.... On what planet do home breast exams happen, expect at a college fraternity perhaps...
I'm pretty sure that this happens on the Pornography Planet, where every repairman and pizza delivery boy gets lucky on every housecall. That is unless pornography has lied to me, which would be a first.

I don't know if a young man killing himself because of a small penis is FUNNIER but it's still funny. The guy in Wisconsin that stole thousands of women's panties is funny too. So's the "Carpenter arrested by police again for working naked. Carpenter tells police that working without clothes "gave him a better range of motion and made him a more efficient worker" (thank you fark.com) and the fact that Dan Savage named the lube/feces froth that occurrs during anal sex after Senator Santorum. Funny is subjective and difficult to quantify.

Seriously, these women were old enough to know better. There's a long history of prostate cancer in my family, but I'm smart enough to know that there's no such thing as a door-to-door proctologist or urologist. It's sad that these women got taken advantage of, but seriously, what did they expect?
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Old 04-21-2006, 09:55 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by analog
Like I said, they're not of a diminished mental capacity (mental retardation of any form)..
I'm definitely willing to agree with you, these women could very well be the stupidest walking the earth. They could have the worst common sense in the world. That makes it their fault then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by analog
I don't need to feel mentally superior to people, and my judgment of them doesn't come from a place of superiority- expecting common sense to prevail in the case of a 33 and 36 year old should not be that lofty of an expectation. )
Its your lack of sympathy for those less gifted with brains and common sense that I point out though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by analog
The real problem is, we expect less and less of people. People win lawsuits for spilling hot coffee in their lap and blaming the restaurant for it burning them- because they weren't warned it would be hot... weren't warned that coffee- a hot beverage- would be hot. And won. Did you know that the packaging of all BIRTH CONTROL states in big, bold letters, "Do not use this product if you intend to become pregnant"? Because some people are so stupid, that they have tried to become pregnant while on birth control and couldn't figure out why they couldn't conceive.)
I'd say these are poor examples, in that there is no person committing a crime and actively trying to deceive them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by analog
We have lowered the bar, time and time again, to allow the very dumbest among us to get away with their stupidities, while we pat them on the back and say "there, there... it's ok." I will not lower the bar. Perhaps if we didn't placate everyone so much, people would grow up a bit and get a thicker skin.
You can't teach people to be smarter then they are. If they lack common sense, they do. But there is a real victim here with a perpetrator out to deceive them, unlike your above examples, and I believe that warrants some sympathy and less laughter. Growing a thicker skin towards people deceiving others and them falling for it? hmm..
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Old 04-21-2006, 09:57 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngdawg
As a victim, I kind of know when (now, at least-didn't know back then) the antenna should go up. I'm not saying they got what they deserved, but where was their common sense? I liken this to those people who fall for the lottery scam.
We all fall for something-a line, a con, but some old man comes to the door offering free breast exams, they get undressed and never think, 'wait a sec....I don't know this guy'? I wouldn't let him in if he'd offered to check my facial zits!!! At what point do we say 'stop'? It's not a matter of superiority complexes, it's a matter of using some common sense and always following your gut instincts. You gotta ask these women, WTF were you thinking???
And like I said (and agree with you), they could be complete morons. But the amusement in that still eludes me.
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Old 04-21-2006, 12:24 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Topper
And like I said (and agree with you), they could be complete morons. But the amusement in that still eludes me.
It's not a 'ha-ha, you got molested' thing...more like a 'Good Lord, where were your brains at?'....These women were victimized, but in a total 'loss of grey matter' moment-there was no overpowering, no violence, just sheer gullibility and stupidity. That's why I liken it to those who fall for the old lottery scam-it simply amazes me that they do.
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Old 04-21-2006, 12:31 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I'm often amused by people falling prey to their own stupidity. Also, how is it sexual assault? It may be unlawful to falsely portray yourself as a doctor, but the women were ready and willing. He did not force himself into their homes or force their clothing off. *shrug* I think he should get a fine and maybe 30-days for impersonating a licensed professional. Otherwise, the women are just too dumb for their own good. If this happened to ladies in their 70's, they'd be considered unfit to live alone and probably put in a home by their kids. But since these women are in their 30s it's somehow okay for them to be so dim?
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Old 04-21-2006, 01:38 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngdawg
It's not a 'ha-ha, you got molested' thing...more like a 'Good Lord, where were your brains at?'....These women were victimized, but in a total 'loss of grey matter' moment-there was no overpowering, no violence, just sheer gullibility and stupidity. That's why I liken it to those who fall for the old lottery scam-it simply amazes me that they do.
In our comments back and forth, yes. But others think differently, and that's what I'm responding to; that and the lack of sympathy for someone who would make such a mistake. It’s probably not something they can change, that they are stupid/gullible/lack common sense/etc..

Quote:
Originally Posted by xepherys
I'm often amused by people falling prey to their own stupidity. Also, how is it sexual assault? It may be unlawful to falsely portray yourself as a doctor, but the women were ready and willing. He did not force himself into their homes or force their clothing off. *shrug* I think he should get a fine and maybe 30-days for impersonating a licensed professional. Otherwise, the women are just too dumb for their own good. If this happened to ladies in their 70's, they'd be considered unfit to live alone and probably put in a home by their kids. But since these women are in their 30s it's somehow okay for them to be so dim?.

Though I'm not a legal expert by any means, I don't see how being sexually touched under false premises, is a big leap to sexual assault (I'm not even using such strong words as "rape", though I'm sure many might). EDIT: re-read the story, and indeed he was charged with sexual battery. So that's the term I'll use... still a serious crime. And concerning that others think it's not.

Even if the women are too dumb for their own good, that does not give the man justification for deceiving them and certainly not leniency for exploiting that. And I personally have sympathy for this, not so much humor. But hey, whatever floats your boat I guess.

Not even going to get started about old people...

Last edited by Topper; 04-21-2006 at 01:58 PM.. Reason: reviewed original story
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Old 04-21-2006, 02:03 PM   #26 (permalink)
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...now if you'll excuse me, I have to go to the store to buy a black bag and an old man suit...
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Old 04-21-2006, 02:21 PM   #27 (permalink)
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This just reinforces what I've always said: Never trust old people!
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Old 04-21-2006, 02:22 PM   #28 (permalink)
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awwwwww
the poor little old man wasn't getting any. Now he might go to jail. what a sad existance.
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Old 04-21-2006, 05:02 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topper
Even if the women are too dumb for their own good, that does not give the man justification for deceiving them and certainly not leniency for exploiting that. And I personally have sympathy for this, not so much humor. But hey, whatever floats your boat I guess.
I don't think anyone here has suggested that the man's punishment be anything less than standard for carrying out such crimes. I haven't gotten the impression that anyone believes he should be given any leniency at all, in fact. Certainly not me.

That doesn't change the fact that these women are total idiots, though.

*goes off to sell volcano insurance*
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Old 04-21-2006, 05:24 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by analog
I don't think anyone here has suggested that the man's punishment be anything less than standard for carrying out such crimes. I haven't gotten the impression that anyone believes he should be given any leniency at all, in fact. Certainly not me.

That doesn't change the fact that these women are total idiots, though.

*goes off to sell volcano insurance*

Read the above posts and you'll see that indeed, I'm specifically responding to just such a suggestion.

And for the record I didn't dig into the details regarding this before, but turns out (according to the news anchor I saw) the two women who fell for this were poor, spoke little English, and obviously were not aware this was blatantly out of the norm. So maybe take a second before passing judgment on what they should and shouldn’t know about how things work here. Seems very likely now they had no clue what to expect.

Also still don't see why you wouldn’t have any sympathy for "idiots" who do get victimized and taken advantage of. But you didn't answer anything from my response to your previous thread.

Can I get a multi-policy discount on the volcano insurance if I also buy homeowners and car insurance?

Last edited by Topper; 04-21-2006 at 05:26 PM..
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Old 04-21-2006, 05:31 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topper
And for the record I didn't dig into the details regarding this before, but turns out (according to the news anchor I saw) the two women who fell for this were poor, spoke little English, and obviously were not aware this was blatantly out of the norm. So maybe take a second before passing judgment on what they should and shouldn’t know about how things work here. Seems very likely now they had no clue.
.
Years ago... when I was young and dumb, I got a traffic ticket and had to go to court... I tried reasoning with the judge (who happened to be a golfing buddy of my dad) because I honestly didn't realize what I did was illegal and the judge said to me.. Ignorance of the law is no excuse...

In the same time frame, my younger brother, who at the time was 6'2 and pretty muscular was in NYC with some high school friends, he was wandering around the city looking like a tourist... looking at all the big buildings, not paying attention to his environment (Cardinal rule in NYC - you pay attention) He andhis friends got their wallets lifted.. His excuse- I didn't know... He got cut absolutely no slack.. He should have known - - there are some things that you don't do...

Sorry - ignorance on the part of these woman is no excuse...

What should this guy get charged with ? Don't know and quite frankly don't care... Did these women deserve it? No, but they also could have very easily prevented it by paying attention...
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Old 04-21-2006, 07:02 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Okay, but what's funny? What makes the perpetrator something to be admired and laughed with (see the posts in this thread which I'm referring to), and not someone dishonest, cruel, and sick enough to prey on women for his own sexual jollies. And yes I'm sure he was preying on these women now (again see above posts), given the demographic he was targeting.

And where is the compassion in us if we dismiss total responsibility off on the victim, as if it really is their entire fault? Your reasoning also could easily be applied to many cases of sexual assault and rape where the victim “brought it on themselves”. Perhaps you feel the same way if a girl is foolish and gets date raped. I don’t know.

You are assuming everyone knows what you do, or has the same level of common sense, or even has the capacity to learn as you can. That’s not reality. People are going to make poor choices everyday. Should we just not care at all about what happens to those people?

If I bought a women a drink at a bar, common sense says don't accept drinks from strange men at bars unless you've seen it poured, because it could be drugged. But that's not something you'd know unless you were informed. Your brother was told these NYC cardinal rules beforehand I assume right? Or did you expect him to know this at birth?

This does not even address my point of people who really will never get it, and really are just plain stupid. Thoughts on that? Do they get what they deserve if they are victimized. You aren't saying that but other people in this thread have.

Try for one second forgetting what you know. You check the ID's of maintenance people you call, well I know you weren't checking ID's from the day your were born. This is something you learned, and had the ability to retain.

I absolutely agree with you, they could have easily prevented this like all the other women at the doors he knocked at did. But they didn't know, and didn't prevent it, and had the pleasure of getting felt up and manually penetrated by this sicko. Is no sympathy really warranted? (again as was specifically stated in above posts)

I've maintained only two real thoughts throughout this thread-
A. Nothing is funny about this "genius"
B. There is reason to have sympathy for these "dumb", "idiot" "clueless" women (you may not feel it, but there is still a reason)

In this case these women are poor, don't speak much English, and probably have no idea what standard medical practices are in this country. They very likely DON'T know that "home breast exams don't happen" as you pointed out earlier. Likely they thought "wow this is such a great country with caring people". Well now I'm sure they see the light. If you can call that "light".

I'd say that was pretty dark actually.

Last edited by Topper; 04-21-2006 at 07:14 PM..
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Old 04-21-2006, 07:51 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by analog
People win lawsuits for spilling hot coffee in their lap and blaming the restaurant for it burning them- because they weren't warned it would be hot... weren't warned that coffee- a hot beverage- would be hot. And won.
This is completely derailing the thread and is nitpicking, but I have to comment since we talked about this case in Law class. The coffee was from McDonald's and was handed to the woman at the drive-through. She spilled it on her legs and had to get skin graft surgery due to the burns. The burns were bad enough to require plastic surgery and thousands of dollars of hospital visits. That lawsuit was won fair and square...now McDonald's has to keep their coffee like 40 degrees cooler than it used to be so the drive-through people don't have to get skin grafts if the lid pops open.
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Old 04-21-2006, 08:31 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I normally don't like going point-for-point like this, but there's too much to cover... (and i apologize that it's so damn LONG, but it happens.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topper
Okay, but what's funny? What makes the perpetrator something to be admired and laughed with (see the posts in this thread which I'm referring to)...
I'm not sure what makes it funny to other people, maybe their perceived stupidity is laughable? For me, I don't find humor in it because a crime was still committed and two women were violated- regardless of whether or not they should have known better.

Quote:
And where is the compassion in us if we dismiss total responsibility off on the victim, as if it really is their entire fault? Your reasoning also could easily be applied to many cases of sexual assault and rape where the victim “brought it on themselves”. Perhaps you feel the same way if a girl is foolish and gets date raped. I don’t know.
I wouldn't at all attempt to compare this scenario to the level of manipulation that occurs with date rape. I would never call the victim of date rape foolish- i'm not sure any rational people would. Date rape, etc., is still a forced act, or an act carried out under protest. This is clearly different, as they initially gave consent because of cluelessness, total lack of common sense, etc. You can't equate this to a drunk girl who says "yes" because she is impaired- unless it turns out these women are, in fact, severely undereducated.

Quote:
You are assuming everyone knows what you do, or has the same level of common sense, or even has the capacity to learn as you can. That’s not reality. People are going to make poor choices everyday. Should we just not care at all about what happens to those people?
I'm not assuming anything, I'm going by what was actually written in the article. I'm working with the fact that the women admitted the man into their homes, and then allowed him to perform his perverse acts. I'm pretty much positive that were there any significant mental handicaps involved, the news agency would be all over it- because then it would be WAY more sensational of a story. If there are further reports that indicate poor english and bad levels of poverty, I have not seen them posted here and have not heard of them existing elsewhere, and I have to go on the only information available.

Quote:
If I bought a women a drink at a bar, common sense says don't accept drinks from strange men at bars unless you've seen it poured, because it could be drugged. But that's not something you'd know unless you were informed. Your brother was told these NYC cardinal rules beforehand I assume right? Or did you expect him to know this at birth?
This is where I'll answer to who determines "common sense". I could say that it SHOULD be common sense to not take drinks from strangers, but I don't think it *is* common sense. Why? Experience. I don't think it's been a *problem* for long enough that people necessarily *know* it. Basic "common sense" normally includes things based on privacy, or personal safety- don't get naked for random people without checking out the situation first, don't walk out into highway traffic- stuff like that. Other "common sense" things are learned person by person and, over time, ingrained into overall societal knowledge. I can't imagine anyone formulating an argument that sways me from believing that "taking your clothes off for random people claiming to be doctors who show up at your door uninvited" ISN'T common sense.

Quote:
This does not even address my point of people who really will never get it, and really are just plain stupid. Thoughts on that? Do they get what they deserve if they are victimized. You aren't saying that but other people in this thread have.
Yeah, It sucks that it happened, and although i said I can't feel sympathy for people that stupid, I didn't mean to imply that i didn't identify them as victims. Keep in mind, too, that it was pretty much voluntary until he fingered them ("genital examination", my eye) and they finally took a hint. I feel bad that it happened, but "sympathy" for such a blatant lack of common sense... it's difficult.

Quote:
Try for one second forgetting what you know. You check the ID's of maintenance people you call, well I know you weren't checking ID's from the day your were born. This is something you learned, and had the ability to retain.
I'm not being crass, but I was taught from a very early age those types of things- people coming to your home should have a reason to be there, and if you're in question of their credentials, call the police. This should be common sense. Allowing John Q. Fingerbanger into your home because he says he's a doctor is stupid, stupid, stupid. I can't imagine a possible explanation of any way such a random visit by a stranger would be legitimate.

Quote:
....Is no sympathy really warranted?
It's very difficult to feel sorry for such stupid decisions. Unless it's quoted as otherwise from another news source, I have to go on what I initially read, which did not indicate any reason for these women to be so unaware of what was going on.


Quote:
I've maintained only two real thoughts throughout this thread-
A. Nothing is funny about this "genius"
B. There is reason to have sympathy for these "dumb", "idiot" "clueless" women (you may not feel it, but there is still a reason)
I agree, I think he intended to sexually molest the women under the guise of being a kindly, humanitarian doctor and carried out his molestation. I don't find anything funny about it, either. He should be fully charged for his crimes, no question.

Quote:
In this case these women are poor, don't speak much English, and probably have no idea what standard medical practices are in this country. They very likely DON'T know that "home breast exams don't happen" as you pointed out earlier. Likely they thought "wow this is such a great country with caring people". Well now I'm sure they see the light. If you can call that "light".
I can't answer to this, because i'm not sure what info you're referring to- it's not been posted here, so I'm lost as to where you got this.
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Old 04-21-2006, 09:01 PM   #35 (permalink)
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yeah sorry about not posting the link to the news clip, if you want it let me know and i'll post it. (its being featured on break.com)

And realize I've been talking towards numerous different posts in the thread from many different people, so many of the points I've made were not directed towards comments you (analog) or Mal have made.

We actually agree on more of these points then it might appear.

So, how bout them NHL playoffs...
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Old 04-21-2006, 09:58 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasereth
This is completely derailing the thread and is nitpicking, but I have to comment since we talked about this case in Law class. The coffee was from McDonald's and was handed to the woman at the drive-through. She spilled it on her legs and had to get skin graft surgery due to the burns. The burns were bad enough to require plastic surgery and thousands of dollars of hospital visits. That lawsuit was won fair and square...now McDonald's has to keep their coffee like 40 degrees cooler than it used to be so the drive-through people don't have to get skin grafts if the lid pops open.
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm
McDonalds also said during discovery that, based on a consultants
advice, it held its coffee at between 180 and 190 degrees fahrenheit to
maintain optimum taste. He admitted that he had not evaluated the
safety ramifications at this temperature. Other establishments sell
coffee at substantially lower temperatures, and coffee served at home is
generally 135 to 140 degrees.
There was more to this case than most people realise. If the coffee had been at the normal temperature it would not have caused such severe burns.
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Old 04-21-2006, 10:17 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I can't help but be slightly amused.

Those women who believed him, assuming they only had their breasts touched, were probably unharmed in any way. They didn't see themselves as having been molested and so, in a way, they weren't.

Having made that point - of course there is some harm, in that if they need a breast exam, they should be going to a legit clinic. It'd be terrible of something went undetected because of this bogus check.

Anyways. Having had my amusement and made my point - I still see it as a moral crime. Of course - had he tricked stupid people out of $50 for crappy discount vouchers or something, that would be more socially acceptable.

The odd thing is that he met so many gullible women before a non-believer raised the alarm. Maybe he didn't offer the full service immediately.
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Old 04-22-2006, 06:08 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Since I'm probably one of the chief "offenders" at finding this funny, I think that I should reinsert myself into the debate, although I may be too late.

I still think this is funny, for pretty much the same reasons that I find "The Three Stooges" or "Home Alone" funny. Everyone knows what it's like to hurt themselves accidentally, and I think that a large part of the appeal of physical comedy is the "thank god that's not me" factor. I'm sure everyone one here has either been party to or observed the old "the word 'gullible' isn't in the dictionary" joke (actually, it's being removed from the English version because it's actually a French word that's going to be replaced by 'freedom belief' or something ). The joke is only funny because anyone can fall for it.

Do I feel sorry for these women? Absolutely. At the same time, do I feel sorry for the guy that calls the police to report that his 50 lbs of pot just got stolen? Absolutely. Or the genius that tried to hold up a gun store full of cops? Sure. Does that stop me from laughing at their stupidity? No. These women were victimized and the guy needs to be punished, but there comes a point where you have to allow yourself to be amused by the idiocy that is this world.

Thanks to fark, here are some examples of other everyday stupidity that does have a humorous aspect.

http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.a...1&nav=menu44_2

Should I feel sorry for the two cops who shot each other accidentally? Sure. But it's pretty funny.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_obje...name_page.html

This poor woman was denied entry to a bar because of her fake arm. That could be used as a weapon. She was discriminated against because of her disability, to humorous results.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_obje...name_page.html

How about the Iraqi insurgents who mistakenly called an Army interpreter to tell him that they were on their way over to attack the Americans? Not so much, but that's because I'm an American myself.
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Old 04-22-2006, 03:44 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Old 04-23-2006, 04:36 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Why do some assume that people who aren't fluent English speakers are a bit thicker than the rest of us? I don't know of any country in the world where it's customary to invite strangers into your home to feel your boobs.
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