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Old 05-12-2006, 06:28 AM   #1 (permalink)
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11yr old pregnancy

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/4764417.stm

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Quote:
Boy charged over child pregnancy

The girl is due to give birth next month
A 15-year-old boy is being prosecuted in connection with the case of a girl who fell pregnant at the age of 11.
The girl from West Lothian - who would become one of the UK's youngest mothers - told a newspaper that she was looking forward to having her child.

The teenage boy is due to appear in court in July charged with rape because of the age of the girl, who is now 12.

The case has prompted calls for a better teenage sexual health strategy in Scotland.

Green MSP Patrick Harvie said it showed that deficiencies in Scottish sex education must be addressed.

The Scottish Sun said the girl, who has not been named, had unprotected sex with the boy on a night out with friends in Edinburgh in August.

She said she was looking forward to motherhood and hopes she has a boy when she gives birth.

The girl added that she thought she would be able to cope as she'd had "lots of practice" looking after young children.

"I'm enjoying being pregnant - even though I get a bit of a sore back and sore ribs."

Her 34-year-old mother told the newspaper: "I'm not ashamed of my daughter at all - in fact, I'm proud of her for keeping her baby."

The newspaper said the girl smokes up to 20 cigarettes a day.

Sex education

Mr Harvie, co-convenor of the Scottish Parliament's cross-party group on sexual health, said: "I think we need to do away with this notion that sex education is everywhere and that young people have got all the information they need.

"There are a lot of myths out there and sex education is quite patchy in this country.

"The sexual health and relationships strategy from the Scottish Executive - the implementation of that is going on at the moment - needs to lead to much more comprehensive sex education."


The Scottish Conservatives called for society and families to unite to change attitudes towards sex following the news.

Health spokeswoman Nanette Milne MSP said: "This news will have shocked many people and the impact on the lives of the two children, the mum-to-be and her baby must be the first concern.

"I hope that this incident will draw attention to failings that have allowed such a young girl to go on a night out, get drunk, get pregnant, yet seemingly be ignorant about the risks and consequences."

A Catholic Church spokesman criticised "an increasingly promiscuous culture".

Family context

A Scottish Executive spokesman did not comment on the case, but said: "We have a programme of sex education in schools.

"It is something that all pupils should be aware of and it stresses the importance of relationships with a family context."

A spokesman for Lothian and Borders Police said the girl's case would be the subject of a child protection review.

West Lothian Council said it was providing support and working with the family to ensure that the child "gets the best possible start".

Another wonderful achievment for the white trash of britain, an 11yr old getting pregnant, then taking the child through to term.

I won't comment beyond that, i'll just end up ranting.

What i will also say that is in england, having sex with someone 13 or under is a strict liability offence, in that they just have to prove you did the act and you will be convicted. How old you though she was doesn't come into the equation at all. I hope they punish the father severly, stupid prats, both of them.

Sex education in this country needs some serious work.
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Old 05-12-2006, 06:38 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Wow, thats got to be some kind of record. 11. congrats to her!

/sarcasm
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Old 05-12-2006, 06:39 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
The girl added that she thought she would be able to cope as she'd had "lots of practice" looking after young children.
Quote:
The newspaper said the girl smokes up to 20 cigarettes a day.
Maybe the mother should get thrown in the big house with the 15yo boy. This baby is going to start life at a disadvantage, what a shame. What kind of nurturing environment can this family provide?

SexEd might of helped, but better parenting and a occasional ass woopin' would have done the trick in this case.
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Old 05-12-2006, 06:54 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Do you need to send a kid to jail over this?

On abortion: I've been noticing a trend, where people have started to blame / get angry for NOT aborting babys. omgwtf.

"mercy killings" wtf ever.

Human nature, women = have baby, men = make women have baby.

She didn't listen / no one told her. How to avoid this shit. (her instinct)

The mom saying she is proud? What do you expect? I have always found it sad when people talk about getting pregnant like it was a illness. Should she say "I can't beleive this, I'm so dissapointed, I wish she would kill it."

tonikaku,

Need more SexED, and parents need to watch thier kids more.
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Old 05-12-2006, 07:50 AM   #5 (permalink)
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You know you're fucked up when your kid is in elementary school before you finish high school...not that this girl has much of a chance of finishing school now. Also, a grandmother at 35: You must indeed be very, very proud.
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Old 05-12-2006, 07:54 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Well, I definitely have two differing vies of this situation. I agree that the fact that she smokes 20 cigs a day is going to REALLY put her kid at a disadvantage, and hopefully someone will convince her of that before too long (looks like it's already been fairly long). I also think it's better to wait until at least high school to even START experimenting sexually, and as long as possible until actually having intercourse.

HOWEVER, society is starting to make things a bit tough for kids. It IS human nature to have sex. People have drive to do so, and we work very hard to squelch that drive. That's not always easy. We keep telling kids to wait longer and longer to have sex (remember when 15 y/o mothers were not abnormal <100 years ago?), and "letting them be kids" longer and longer, each not conducive to the other. We shelther kids, keep them in school, give them minimal responsibilities, and then expect them to make responsible decisions and do "the right thing"? It's a pretty big Catch 22 on a social level.
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Old 05-12-2006, 07:59 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kadath
You know you're fucked up when your kid is in elementary school before you finish high school...not that this girl has much of a chance of finishing school now. Also, a grandmother at 35: You must indeed be very, very proud.
This is not a bragging point, but a matter of fact. My oldest son was born when his mother was 16. Yes, it was MUCH too early. But, we both finished high school. We both got post-secondary education. She has another daughter now, and though she's divorced (we never married), she has a career and does okay for herself. I also have another son with my wife, have a long standing (11-year) career in IT and do very well for myself. Brett, the oldest, is well-adjusted, smart and a wonderful kid. I'm not advocating teenage sex, but I am saying that a) some teenagers have the wherewithall to be decent parents, and b) if a person plucks their head from their ass, they can do the right thing in the long run, regardless of age. Most of the "bad" issues revolving around teenage pregnancy is because the kids are fucking morons to begin with. Lauren and I (Brett's mom) were both honor students, active in extracurricular activities (sports, newspaper, etc.) and stayed good students through it all. I don't get how so many teenagers are just so damned stupid!
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Old 05-12-2006, 08:25 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Eleven year old girls shouldn't have babies.

I have a feeling that this is largely due to poor parenting. It seems like the mother would rather be a friend than an authority figure for the girl.

The poor baby doesn't have a chance. -_-
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Old 05-12-2006, 09:08 AM   #9 (permalink)
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this is the only type of case where I will admit that there is anyone who has an innate advantage over another person.. fucking horrible parents. After about 17 or 18 that excuse goes away and you are what you make of yourself, but I almost feel bad that this thing is going to grow up for 17 years hating its life..
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Old 05-12-2006, 10:21 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Nature has played a cruel trick on us humans giving us the ability to reproduce long before we are mentally ready to be parents. From what I have read, we are becomming physically mature at younger and younger ages.
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Old 05-12-2006, 10:40 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Old 05-12-2006, 10:52 AM   #12 (permalink)
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one of the pointa/issues I have with this is in the first post

"I hope they punish the father severly"

It does take two to tango, and there was no mention of rape anywhere in the article, it seemed to be a willing act between two stupid kids.

BOTH of them need to be sat down and talked to, along with a good healthy dose of some classes/teachings/ someone to listen to the kids and try to get them to see situation from a responsible adult point of view.
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Old 05-12-2006, 11:00 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaXVI
BOTH of them need to be sat down and talked to, along with a good healthy dose of some classes/teachings/ someone to listen to the kids and try to get them to see situation from a responsible adult point of view.
I think they both need to be sat down and have some sense knocked into them. and him - have the shit knocked out of him. At least I know its not just america thats becoming jerryspringer land. way to go britain for sharing the shame.
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Old 05-12-2006, 11:03 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaXVI
one of the pointa/issues I have with this is in the first post

"I hope they punish the father severly"

It does take two to tango, and there was no mention of rape anywhere in the article, it seemed to be a willing act between two stupid kids.

BOTH of them need to be sat down and talked to, along with a good healthy dose of some classes/teachings/ someone to listen to the kids and try to get them to see situation from a responsible adult point of view.
5th line down, he's being charged with rape. It may be the girls fault, but lets face it, the boys need a fucking lesson in dealing with their mess.

They won't see it from an adults point of view, she's in the 'awww babies' point of her life, and he needs a lynching.
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Old 05-12-2006, 11:21 AM   #15 (permalink)
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A lynching? Really? At 15, were you so smart? I know I wasn't.

Clearly this is an example of stupid kids being stupid. You'd be amazed how small you think the difference is in age when you ARE that age. I know I did (but thankfully wasn't this stupid). In my mind... this is mostly on the parents of both kids.
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Old 05-12-2006, 11:26 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Well, 11 is seven years later than this girl got pregnant.

Yep, that's right, when she was five years old she had a child - C-Section, but carried the child to term. It was a healthy baby boy...
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Old 05-12-2006, 11:39 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Old 05-12-2006, 11:49 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by NoSoup
Well, 11 is seven years later than this girl got pregnant.

Yep, that's right, when she was five years old she had a child - C-Section, but carried the child to term. It was a healthy baby boy...
Oh. My. God.

Disturbing.
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Old 05-12-2006, 11:56 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TotalMILF
Oh. My. God.

Disturbing.
Disturbing.....Thats understatement. I have a daughter a few months younger than her . I couln't even start to think what would go through my head if she was preggers.
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Old 05-12-2006, 12:21 PM   #20 (permalink)
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and him - have the shit knocked out of him.
He's being charged with rape... with absolutely no evidence or even the girl saying it's rape. Sorry but if she said yet she's as stupid as him. He does not deserve to get his ass kicked, he was just a stupid 15year old.

Granted she's 4 years younger... you never had any friends that dated Freshmen girls when they were Seniors?
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Old 05-12-2006, 12:48 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by stevie667
What i will also say that is in england, having sex with someone 13 or under is a strict liability offence, in that they just have to prove you did the act and you will be convicted. How old you though she was doesn't come into the equation at all. I hope they punish the father severly, stupid prats, both of them.
I will deal with this first as a curiosity, how does this work if both parties are under 13, or if both parties are regularly engaging in sexual activity and one becomes 14 before the other? Is there any sort of precedent for this kind of thing?

On a second note, I think justice would be much better served by making the father get a job to support his kid. Sending him to jail doesn't do anything but double the burden of the public in this scenario and make the home life for the child that much worse. A 15 year old dad doing his best to give the kid a good life has to be better than no dad at all, even if his best isn't very good. Just because he got a girl pregnant at 15 doesn't make him a total shithead. Some people make a few bad decisions, but the rest of the time they're mature responsible people, it happens every day. Not only that, having a child makes a lot of people who were previously screw ups straighten out in big damn hurry. Who are we to say anything about the father. He might end up being a better dad that a lot of people who planned to be a dad at a much greater age. Of course nobody doing the reporting cares about that, they only care he's 15.
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Old 05-12-2006, 12:53 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Wonder what the father of the girl thinks. And I guess boys aren't icky with coodies to girls at age 11 anymore.

Last edited by imouseone; 05-12-2006 at 12:55 PM..
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Old 05-12-2006, 01:38 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Old 05-12-2006, 01:45 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JustJess
A lynching? Really? At 15, were you so smart? I know I wasn't.

Clearly this is an example of stupid kids being stupid. You'd be amazed how small you think the difference is in age when you ARE that age. I know I did (but thankfully wasn't this stupid). In my mind... this is mostly on the parents of both kids.

I was smart enough not to go having unprotected sex with an 11yr old, and unless the situation has changed in the years since i was that young (which is not that many), then i stand by my statement. More importantly, what the hell is the girl doing have sex at that age?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hektore
I will deal with this first as a curiosity, how does this work if both parties are under 13, or if both parties are regularly engaging in sexual activity and one becomes 14 before the other? Is there any sort of precedent for this kind of thing?

Basically, under the age of 13, in the eyes of the law a girl is unable to give consent to sex, no matter what her opinions are. As such, since she can't give consent, that amounts to rape. It is a strict liability offence basically so they can punish anyone who has sex with a girl under 13 with relative ease, which is the right idea.
However, between 14-16 (the actual age of consent) then there is more leway e.g. if both parties are of a similar age (for instance if they were in a relationship, boy turned 16, girl was still 15 and they were engaged in sexual conduct) then there can be a bit of a defence.

I don't believe they should send the father to jail, but he should be forced to support the kid and given a myriad of other penalties to punish him for stupidity, and serve as a warning to others.
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Old 05-12-2006, 06:01 PM   #25 (permalink)
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How is it possible to even become pregnant at four years old? That's what I don't understand...
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Old 05-12-2006, 06:40 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by stevie667
I don't believe they should send the father to jail, but he should be forced to support the kid and given a myriad of other penalties to punish him for stupidity, and serve as a warning to others.
I disagree with punishing the father more. Anything you do to him is just going to make him resent the situation (more) and make it harder to do what he can for the kid to try to give him some kind of life. I think the child here has enough stacked against it without us as a society going out of our way to make the parents lives more difficult. How about instead of sending the kid to jail(what I'm sure the prosecution is going for) and/or other punishment, we say 'hey, you can stay out of jail(ect) if you get a job and finish school. Sure, it's hard, but it's better than jail'. Of course it's probably all a moot point anyway because I see no way social services isn't going to take the kid away, which they probably should.
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Old 05-12-2006, 07:10 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I hope they punish the father severly, stupid prats, both of them.
Not me! I hope we teach both the soon-to-be father and mother coping strategies for being young parents, and teach them responsible parenting. I hope we teach them that parenting is some tough shit, and I hope we prepare them well.

Because, if you're trying to protect "families" and then go on and punish fathers and mothers, well... you see where I'm going with this.

I hope we can convince her to stop smoking, convince them to strop drinking- I hope the baby is born as healthy as can be.

I'm a little disappointed that some of you guys here believe that this is an appropriate and mature response to such a situation. I hope you can see how summoning feelings of disgust, perhaps even hatred or moral repugnancy can not do much but perpetuate a state of sorrow.
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Old 05-12-2006, 09:22 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Holy crap! And what's more is that she smokes 20 cigs a DAY!!!
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Old 05-12-2006, 11:57 PM   #29 (permalink)
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LPM raises the point that caught my interest.

As a pregnant woman it is shocking that she is "allowed" to smoke at all by her family; but when you consider the fact that a 20 a day habit costs in the region of £50 a week (about $75 at current exchange rates), you have to ask how is she getting the cigarettes.

Either through crime, or through her parents/guardians.

Also it's illegal to sell cigarettes to <16s in Scotland.

There is so much wrong with this story.
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Old 05-13-2006, 01:40 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I remember very well my 11 y/o girlfriend I was 13 new how to jack off and I did rub her boobies. Never kissed, her I was affraid. Didn't even know how to have sex but bottom line....Her dad or mom would have killed me then my own parents would have beaten me to death. Then the church would have placed me in hell even faster.
What ever happened to the FEAR OF GOD put into kids by there parents?
Even without religion (I'm not preaching here) Right and wrong taught by parents has taken a big dive. The article says the 34 y/o mother was proud she was keeping the baby,It also says she smokes 20 cigs at a day at age 11!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm ranting enough said Whole group needs to be placed in protective custody. Baby needs to be given up for adoption. The girl,mother,and boy need to be sterilized by the town were tax dollars will be spent to take care of this poor baby.
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Old 05-13-2006, 03:06 AM   #31 (permalink)
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The mother of the 11-year-old should be jailed for allowing her daughter to smoke a pack of cigarettes a day, let alone any at all, at 11 years of age. Morons.
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Old 05-13-2006, 06:18 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Unless the boy physically and with intent raped the girl, why is he being charged with rape? Isn't he a minor as well?

But 11 years old.Where are the parents?
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Old 05-13-2006, 06:18 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Having a niece who is about 10 really puts this in perspective. Crazy stuff.
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Old 05-13-2006, 09:26 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Well, just read in the paper earlier her view on smoking:

"I can stop smoking anytime i want, but it doesn't seem to be affecting the pregnancy"

'bout sums her up really.
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Old 05-13-2006, 03:55 PM   #35 (permalink)
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If her kid hurries up she could become a grandma at the age of 22. That would definitly be a record! Given these circumstances it isn´t unlikely...
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Old 05-13-2006, 04:07 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Throughout the whole article neither the parents of the girl, the 11 yr old girl, or the girl's partner never showed any remorse for having made this mistake. A baby this early in life is a mistake. Not that she is having a baby but that she is having one at such a young age. She has a lot of maturing physically to do yet and it appears a whole lot of maturing to do mentally and emotionally. The reason I say it that is because she believes that she is ready for a baby because she's done a lot of babysitting. HAH - babysitting only helps you know the bare minimum needed to raise a baby. It doesn't prepare you for the hormonal shifts, the sleep deprivation, the endless days and nights, the colic, the never-ending responsibility. Also, She does not intend to make a good home for this child or she would not be smoking so much.

What is her mother thinking letting the girl smoke while pregnant?? Maybe the mother smoked and the girl is a little mentally deficient and that's how-come she ended up this way. Where is some common sense?? I personally don't believe in abortion but I don't think that child protection agency (or whatever it's called there) should allow her to raise this child. We'll have another pre-teen pregnancy before we know it if this family continues to propagate.
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Old 05-13-2006, 04:40 PM   #37 (permalink)
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There is so much wrong with all of this. The only thing I can think to add that hasn't been mentioned before is why would a 15 year-old have *any* interest in an 11 year-old? The age discrepancy is significant in every way for children that young.
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Old 05-14-2006, 01:05 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Unless the boy physically and with intent raped the girl, why is he being charged with rape? Isn't he a minor as well?

But 11 years old.Where are the parents?
An 11 year old no more has the mental capacity to consent to sex with a 15 year old than an 18, 21, 30, etc., year-old person. The issue is whether or not the 15 year old knew better and did it anyway. The judge could determine that the 15 year old was perfectly capable of knowing sex with an 11 year old was wrong, and may give him a sentence. Four years in difference isn't much when you're 18 and 22, or 20 and 24... but 11 and 15 is a pretty wide gap of maturity.
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Old 05-14-2006, 03:20 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by percy
Unless the boy physically and with intent raped the girl, why is he being charged with rape? Isn't he a minor as well?
Age of legal responsibility in british law starts at 10, before which your deemed amoral, and 'unaware' of legal right or wrong. Ater 10 you can be convicted of just about anything.

The offence of having sex with someone 13 or under is strict liability, meaning that the whole 'intention' concept is completly taken out of it, much in the same way to do with speeding (in that they just need to prove you sped, not that you meant to). They don't need to prove he intended to have sex with a minor, just that he did. A DNA test confirms that, and he will automatically be found guilty at a trial.

Edit: Standard age of consent is 16 in Britain.

Second Edit: Although the age of consent is 16, there is some leway to charging if both defendants are under the age. I doubt its in the interest of the public to prosecute the girl. Jail isn't an automatic after a conviction either, just recommended.
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Last edited by stevie667; 05-14-2006 at 07:11 AM..
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Old 05-14-2006, 06:53 AM   #40 (permalink)
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So next they will charge her too with having sex with someone under the age of consent...

I'm sure putting a 15 year old in jail can fix all of this..
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