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Old 05-25-2006, 05:42 AM   #1 (permalink)
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To Kill an American

A friend sent this to me today. I think that anywhere it says America, you could insert the name of most any other free country, the idea is the same. It says a lot about why I am proud to be, not just an American, but a citizen of the civilized world.

Written by an Australian Dentist...

To Kill an American

You probably missed it in the rush of news last week, but there was actually a report that someone in Pakistan had published in a newspaper an offer of a reward to anyone who killed an American, any American.

So an Australian dentist wrote an editorial the following day to let everyone know what an American is . so they would know when they found one. (Good one, mate!!!!)

" An American is English, or French, or Italian, Irish, German, Spanish, Polish, Russian or Greek. An American may also be Canadian, Mexican, African, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Australian, Iranian, Asian, or Arab, or Pakistani or Afghan.

An American may also be a Comanche, Cherokee, Osage, Blackfoot, Navaho, Apache, Seminole or one of the many other tribes known as native Americans.

An American is Christian, or he could be Jewish, or Buddhist, or Muslim. In fact, there are more Muslims in America than in Afghanistan The only difference is that in America they are free to worship as each of them chooses.

An American is also free to believe in no religion. For that he will answer only to God, not to the government, or to armed thugs claiming to speak for the government and for God.

An American lives in the most prosperous land in the history of the world. The root of that prosperity can be found in the Declaration of Independence, which recognizes the God given right of each person to the pursuit of happiness.

An American is generous. Americans have helped out just about every other nation in the world in their time of need, never asking a thing in return.

When Afghanistan was over-run by the Soviet army 20 years ago, Americans came with arms and supplies to enable the people to win back their country!

As of the morning of September 11, Americans had given more than any other nation to the poor in Afghanistan Americans welcome the best of everything...the best products, the best books, the best music, the best food, the best services. But they also welcome the least.
The national symbol of America , The Statue of Liberty , welcomes your tired and your poor, the wretched refuse of your teeming shores, the homeless, tempest tossed. These in fact are the people who built America

Some of them were working in the Twin Towers the morning of September 11, 2001 earning a better life for their families. It's been told that the World Trade Center victims were from at least 30 different countries, cultures, and first languages, including those that aided and abetted the terrorists.

So you can try to kill an American if you must. Hitler did. So did General Tojo, and Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung, and other blood-thirsty tyrants in the world. But, in doing so you would just be killing yourself. Because Americans are not a particular people from a particular place. They are the embodiment of the human spirit of freedom. Everyone who holds to that spirit, everywhere, is an American

Steven A. Thomas
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Old 05-25-2006, 05:48 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Just checked with Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/rumors/america2.htm).

This was not penned by an Australian:

Quote:
This piece isn't such a case. The "What is an American?" article quoted above was not penned by an Australian (or a dentist), but by Peter Ferrara, an associate professor of law at the George Mason University School of Law in Northern Virginia. Mr. Ferrara's commentary was originally published in the National Review on 25 September 2001.
Some of the references to 9/11 and the Twin Towers was added by someone else at a later time.
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Old 05-25-2006, 06:08 AM   #3 (permalink)
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So...can murderers here get that reward?
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Old 05-25-2006, 06:30 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlatan
Just checked with Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/rumors/america2.htm).

This was not penned by an Australian:



Some of the references to 9/11 and the Twin Towers was added by someone else at a later time.
Well, sorry I didn't check it first. However, the idea remains the same.
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Old 05-25-2006, 07:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I don't know... I find this kind of arrogant.

What it is saying is, all people who love freedom are Americans.

America doesn't hold the patent on freedom.
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Old 05-25-2006, 07:51 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockogre
... An American may also be Canadian...
Um, well, NO...

That would make you a Canadian.

Oh, I guess if you had dual citizenship. But in that case you would still not be Canadian if you Identified yourself as American.
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Old 05-25-2006, 08:03 AM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Well, Charlie, I'll back you up on that. May hell rain down upon me from all who disagree... that's okay. It's important to have these kinds of discussions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockogre
An American lives in the most prosperous land in the history of the world. The root of that prosperity can be found in the Declaration of Independence, which recognizes the God given right of each person to the pursuit of happiness.

An American is generous. Americans have helped out just about every other nation in the world in their time of need, never asking a thing in return.

When Afghanistan was over-run by the Soviet army 20 years ago, Americans came with arms and supplies to enable the people to win back their country!

The national symbol of America , The Statue of Liberty , welcomes your tired and your poor, the wretched refuse of your teeming shores, the homeless, tempest tossed. These in fact are the people who built America
Well, rockogre, I mean you no offense whatsoever, but I have to respond to some of these words. I am pretty anti-nationalistic (of any country), especially when statements like these are unqualified and seem to have been written simply for rhetoric's sake. Granted, let it be said that I am grateful to have the freedom to be critical of these kinds of things, and I am grateful to people who defend that freedom.

However, freedom does not give anyone the power to ignore or rewrite history, especially for the sake of patriotism.

Prosperous? It's not because of the Declaration of Independence... I can't really begin to start on that one. Read your history book. And if you asked the residents of New Orleans, or of any other disadvantaged group in America, I am pretty sure they would not say this is a "prosperous" land... at least, not equally prosperous. And what is the point of prosperity if it is not equally distributed? (That's my bias, though.)

Generous... maybe when it benefits us (yes, we do ask for things in return), but we aren't nearly as generous (neither with our aid nor our trade policies) as we could be, given our amount of "prosperity." Please point out more than a few examples of unconditional generosity (both domestically and internationally, including taking care of the environment) and maybe I'll believe that one.

What's with the focus on Afghanistan? It's interesting to cite one "good" example of intervention, but what about all the secret wars that we never heard about? What about installing dictators in countries (particularly Latin America) who were far worse than any democratically-elected leader would have been? Anyone know how all the Hmong "immigrants" got here? Yeah, there's all kinds of shit when you start to dig.

As for welcoming the tired and poor... yeah, we're not such a fan of the tired and poor if they're Mexican, apparently. 100 years ago, it was the Irish, Italians, and Chinese we hated. And African-Americans have never had an easy time of it, period. We have never unconditionally welcomed all groups into our nation; there is always an exception.

Why does he have to say that "everyone is an American?" I'd go so far as to say everyone is a human being... but no, Americans are not always the embodiment of freedom, and we (nor anyone else in the West) do not have a premium on being "civilized." Humans are humans, that's about it. And every human is capable of great actions and despicable actions. Not one nationality or group can claim to be better than others.

/2 cents. Again, this is not a personal response to rockogre himself, simply to the words purportedly written by this Australian/Mr. Ferrara.
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Old 05-25-2006, 08:05 AM   #8 (permalink)
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or Mexican.

Together the three of us are North Americans. Or if you want to include Central and South America, then geographically, we are all part of the Americas, and therefore technically we are all Americans (credit goes to Amerigo Verspuci - with apologies to the spelling).

So the concept in the original post is that is that since recent immigrants to the United States (i.e. in the past 200 yrs give or take) have been sourced from the entire globe, and they have come together to create a unique country who attempt do good, that killing an American is tantamount to killing the spirit of the world. Shooting yourself in the foot, so to speak.

The thought has some merit. Although the original people of the Americas may have a bone to pick with this viewpoint.
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Old 05-25-2006, 08:24 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlatan
I don't know... I find this kind of arrogant.

What it is saying is, all people who love freedom are Americans.

America doesn't hold the patent on freedom.

My point was that you could replace the word American and America with Canadians and Canada, or Swedes and Sweden, surely everyone can get the drift of this. I could care less what you call them. The idea was that most countries are made of of lots of different kinds of people. If you kill Canadians are they just the white folks or what?

Alas, once again I have posted something that I thought embodied a nice idea and didn't realize it was somehow inflamatory.

Sorry to everyone, my bad.
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Old 05-25-2006, 08:51 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Hey big guy, I know where you are coming from.

As my dad used to say "It shows that your heart is above your wallet..." Whatever that meant. I think he meant to say ass;

But one thing the patriotic folks in the great United States of America have yet to come to terms with is that the rest of the world does not view your country in the same way.

In the vast majority, it isn't even close.

I Love you though. Don't let us poopy-heads spoil your sense of patriotism. I wish more people felt the way you guys do about their own land.
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Old 05-25-2006, 08:58 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockogre
A friend sent this to me today. I think that anywhere it says America, you could insert the name of most any other free country, the idea is the same. It says a lot about why I am proud to be, not just an American, but a citizen of the civilized world.
THAT is a nice thought, and one I can get behind. The original author was a bit limited in scope, but with your addition, it is a lovely sentiment.

Please don't take everyone's posts personally; I think it's hard for non-Americans sometimes; our culture and politics really do tend to dominate the world stage. So they can get a little miffed at one more person writing an American-centric rant as if we are the only and best country in the whole wide world. But I DO believe in it with your editing. So thanks. :*
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Old 05-25-2006, 09:08 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Um folks, I'm not particularly upset or mad or hurt or anything, thanks just the same. I just feel I should have read it a few more times before I just threw it out there. I stay out of the politics threads relegioulsly because I'm just not that much into arguments. Just feel kind of stupid for not thinking things through.

I just mostly saw the parts in which you cannot necessarily define any of our countries citizens by race or religion or what you like to eat. The fact that America is not viewed as wonderful by everyone never really crossed my mind, even though I certainly understand.

I love my country, but keep a watchful eye on my government!

Anyway, lesson learned.
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Last edited by rockogre; 05-25-2006 at 09:12 AM..
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Old 05-25-2006, 09:27 AM   #13 (permalink)
 
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I said this in my post a couple of times, but I'll say it again: rockogre, I did not mean my post to be personal to you. I know you had good intentions behind it, and I'd like the idea of applying what you said to the rest of the world, if it were possible. I guess I'm a cynic, eh?

As a critical American, knowing very well what other countries think of us (and the truth of our less-publicized actions), I just can't stand by most of what that author wrote. Not all Americans feel so patriotic, though yes, we are grateful to be able to express that opinion. Being grateful does not mean surrendering the ability to think critically about a situation.

I will say that I am not sure what you meant by "civilized;" I understood that you meant some nations are uncivilized, as opposed to the West? I guess I find "civilized" to be a loaded word, since it is pretty relative.

EDIT: Okay, just read your last post, since you beat me to it. I'm glad you're not too upset.
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Old 05-25-2006, 09:45 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Rock I thought it was great. A lot of us think critically but also do not let the mistakes we've made cloud the good we do (or at leas try to do).

And as for being bigotted, maybe it is a little. However we're not the ones who drew the line in the sand, and this is a good starting point for defining ourselves instead of letting others define us.
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Old 05-25-2006, 10:50 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abaya
Prosperous? It's not because of the Declaration of Independence... I can't really begin to start on that one. Read your history book. And if you asked the residents of New Orleans, or of any other disadvantaged group in America, I am pretty sure they would not say this is a "prosperous" land... at least, not equally prosperous. And what is the point of prosperity if it is not equally distributed?
There is more than one type of "prosperity". One does not necessarily need to have a bulging wallet to be prosperous. Just a thought.

And I personally believe that the equal distribution of wealth is every bit as destructive to society as the disproportionate distribution that we have now.
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Old 05-25-2006, 10:57 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBen
Um, well, NO...

That would make you a Canadian.

Oh, I guess if you had dual citizenship. But in that case you would still not be Canadian if you Identified yourself as American.
I tend to disagree. We have Mexicans that have moved here and gained citizenship. They are now Americans, but they are also Mexican. Just because their citizenship changes does not mean that their heritage does. I've never lived in Ireland or The Ukraine, but I still consider myself Irish and Ukrainian. That doesn't mean I'm not American. I love being an American citizen and living my life in the U.S., it doesn't mean I don't know my roots and my heritage.

If you moved here and became an American citizen, you'd still be Canadian. Citizenship has nothing to do with WHO you are. *shrug*
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Old 05-25-2006, 02:00 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Moral of the story is: Regardless of what it symbolizes, being an American is embarassing at the moment.
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Old 05-25-2006, 02:21 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xepherys
I tend to disagree. We have Mexicans that have moved here and gained citizenship. They are now Americans, but they are also Mexican. Just because their citizenship changes does not mean that their heritage does. I've never lived in Ireland or The Ukraine, but I still consider myself Irish and Ukrainian. That doesn't mean I'm not American. I love being an American citizen and living my life in the U.S., it doesn't mean I don't know my roots and my heritage.

If you moved here and became an American citizen, you'd still be Canadian. Citizenship has nothing to do with WHO you are. *shrug*
My dad is a naturalized citizen. He is Dutch-American.

Voila.
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Old 05-25-2006, 02:37 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockogre
Um folks, I'm not particularly upset or mad or hurt or anything, thanks just the same. I just feel I should have read it a few more times before I just threw it out there. I stay out of the politics threads relegioulsly because I'm just not that much into arguments. Just feel kind of stupid for not thinking things through.

I just mostly saw the parts in which you cannot necessarily define any of our countries citizens by race or religion or what you like to eat. The fact that America is not viewed as wonderful by everyone never really crossed my mind, even though I certainly understand.

I love my country, but keep a watchful eye on my government!

Anyway, lesson learned.
rock, i love ya buddy; your heart's in the right place...
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Old 05-25-2006, 02:54 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Last time I checked, everyone from Canada till Tierra de Fuego was "american"
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Old 05-25-2006, 03:02 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Ooooookay....

I was so baffled at that post that I looked up the meaning in Wikipedia.

The result was:

THIS PAGE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Tierra del Fuego can mean:

* Tierra del Fuego, an archipelago at the southernmost tip of South America
* Isla Grande de Tierra del Fuego, main island of the forementioned archipelago
* Tierra del Fuego Province (Argentina), a province of Argentina
* Tierra del Fuego Province (Chile), a province of Chile
* Tierra del Fuego (film), a movie from 2000 by Chilean filmmaker Miguel Littín
Can you help me out here?
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Old 05-25-2006, 04:15 PM   #22 (permalink)
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we're not talking internet here...we're talking about life and death situations...wikipedia?...how many divisions did they contribute? don't get me going on why we shouldn't be where we are...
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- Robert S. McNamara
-----------------------------------------
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Last edited by uncle phil; 05-25-2006 at 04:18 PM..
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Old 05-25-2006, 04:19 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
* Tierra del Fuego (film), a movie from 2000 by Chilean filmmaker Miguel Littín
If I had to guess, me thinks it's something to do with the above.
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Old 05-25-2006, 04:42 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Oh, and OP what you posted is part of the conditioning.
We grew up hearing it, and in my case seeing it.
That it, was the people, folks you see everyday.
Doing things to help others not asking in return.
It was a sense of good, we were shielded from other realities.

What we have here in the OP is an example of.......

"Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus"
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Old 05-25-2006, 04:53 PM   #25 (permalink)
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It's the southernmost point in South America, an archipelago with a main island. It's divided between Chile and Argentina. It has a fucking cool name (Tierra del Fuego!!! ). It's where Cape Horn is.

The most famous town there is Ushuaia, the world's southernmost city. I wanna go there someday!
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Old 05-25-2006, 06:35 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Sorry,
That sounded rather cynical

I still believe in us, it's just the light is getting dim.
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Old 05-25-2006, 07:13 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlatan
What it is saying is, all people who love freedom are Americans.
I think it is saying that an American can be from any country, religion, ethnic group, etc. Every America was not born in a small town in the midwest with a puppy and picket fence and a desire to overcome every smaller nation or group of people. And by wanting to kill an American you may very well be wanting to kill someone just as yourself that just happens to live in a different country.
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Old 05-25-2006, 08:27 PM   #28 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights
There is more than one type of "prosperity". One does not necessarily need to have a bulging wallet to be prosperous. Just a thought.

And I personally believe that the equal distribution of wealth is every bit as destructive to society as the disproportionate distribution that we have now.
Fair 'nuff, though I wasn't necessarily talking about a bulging wallet. I was talking more about quality of life in general, including material conditions (not always financial; I include health care, jobs, insurance, fit schools, and opportunities in general, to name a few).

Nor was I saying that communism would be a great salvation for this country, which is what I think you thought I was saying? Not sure. But I can see why you might think equal wealth distribution could become a bad thing, though again, I wasn't necessarily talking about wealth. I was referring to the above issues: equal access to material resources... or if not equal, then at least far more balanced than they currently are. To hold on to the belief that all Americans (and all "civilized" countries' residents) are "prosperous"... and that it's a result of the Declaration of Independence... well that's just hooey, sorry. (Not saying that you are hooey, BOR, but that the lawyer who wrote that piece seems to be.)

/2 more cents.
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Last edited by abaya; 05-25-2006 at 08:33 PM..
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Old 05-26-2006, 06:50 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBen
Um, well, NO...

That would make you a Canadian.
We kind of monopolized the term, but anyone from North, Central, or South America can call themselves "American" correctly.

Whoever you are, the spirit embodied in the OP is what I consider the spirit of the US. We don't have a monpoly on the sentiment, but that's what we're built on and that's what every one of us should stand for. I was raised with cartoon images driven into my mind of "America" being a place where people of every race and religion stand side by side, hold hands, and line up from one coast to the other. That's the place I want to call home.

Last edited by MSD; 05-26-2006 at 06:55 PM..
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Old 05-27-2006, 08:09 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Ur yes. Except that it's a work of fiction.

It's like finding that somebody said something nice about you - and then realizing that you'd written the note yourself.
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