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Old 06-12-2006, 07:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Ridiculous Article from Local Newspaper...New Cycling Offences

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Old 06-12-2006, 07:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
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a horn or a bell is required on a bicycle?

What would the fines be if you had the same infractions in a car?

Seems as though they are treating bicycles like cars now - but are they giving them special bike lanes where they can be safe from cars?

I've had my foot broken about 15 yearsa go by a bicyclist who was going the wrong way down a one way street, and basically was running a light - as he plowed right over me and my foot - I'm not sure it's unreasonable to ask bicyclists to share the rules of the road...
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Old 06-12-2006, 08:33 PM   #3 (permalink)
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i got a $271 ticket for riding my bike on the wrong side of the road... so much for excersise.
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Old 06-12-2006, 08:40 PM   #4 (permalink)
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They are common since rules, they are written to protect people (like mal and her foot) as with any other rule, if you don’t obey, you should be punished. The smallest punishment is monetary, I don’t think throwing some one in jail for riding on the sidewalk is a good idea, but if you hit them with a $100 fine, they won’t do it again. Its all for safety.

The bell or horn thing, I’m a bit skeptical on, I always thought shouting was adequate ("Get out of the way my brakes are busted!")
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Old 06-12-2006, 08:43 PM   #5 (permalink)
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They should be doing this more elsewhere. So many bicyclists around here tend to do the same things. Running red lights, stop signs, and just plain endangering themselves and others. A bicycle is just another vehicle on the road, and just because the laws haven't been kept up on them as much as it has been for motorists, does it make them any less liable when they do break the law?
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Old 06-12-2006, 09:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I have to agree with the fines. Bikes belong on the road. I know it's dangerous, but it's safer than being on the sidewalk endangering pedestrians. In my hometown of Kingston, someone was killed by a cyclist when walking out of a store and it became quite a big news story, not because Kingston is boring (it is) but because it riled up people on both sides of the bike issue.

I cycle across downtown Toronto to get to work and I'm a firm believer in strict rules for bikes and as far as I know, every fine listed above is similar in Toronto. I have all the right lights and a bell, and I treat road rules as if I am a car. The more cyclists obey the rules, the more respect we'll have and the more people, I think, will be attracted to the bike as a serious form of short and mid range travel.

Of course the flipside to my law-abiding attitude is a seething rage against our car-centric society. I am sick and tired of concessions being made for cyclists only when it's convenient for drivers. Want a bike lane? Well that'd choke the automobile traffic so it just wouldn't work there...

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Old 06-12-2006, 09:40 PM   #7 (permalink)
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We have a very large immigrant bicycling community and they don't obey ANY rules of the road. They run straight through the red lights, sidewalks are racetracks and/or passing lanes, ride two and sometimes three on a single bike, but I have yet to see a patrolman have one pulled over and the only time I've seen a cop with a bicyclist is when the bicyclist got hit by a car.
I think the fines are a great idea-wish they had them here. I'm sure they do, but as one police friend says, "We hate paperwork."
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Old 06-12-2006, 09:49 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Old 06-13-2006, 03:16 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bparker805
i got a $271 ticket for riding my bike on the wrong side of the road... so much for excersise.
the fine seems a little excessive, and i can't quite seen to find what it would be for a car... but - back when i was a pip squeak and had a bicycle safety course in gym class in first or second grade - we learned you ride with traffic, not against... Why were ya riding on the wrong side of the road?



Would these fine cause to you to be more or less willing to ride your bike as a means of transportation?
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Old 06-13-2006, 03:57 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Sounds look a good idea to me.

Half of cyclists shouldn't be on the road in the first place, and its the people who know how to drive yet think bikes are somehow immune to traffic laws that really piss me off.
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Old 06-13-2006, 04:19 AM   #11 (permalink)
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aberkok has said almost exactly what I would have said on this issue.

I live on a one-way street, there have been many times where I have almost been run down by cyclists riding the wrong way. One time when I called out to one, after he almost ran me down, he came back and confronted me. He said he could ride where he wanted. I pointed out that there was a street one block over that went in the direction he wished to go. He got seriously in my face. What a maroon.


There needs to be serious education on the part of BOTH cyclists and drivers. BOTH need to be clear of the rules of co-existence.

While I have seen cyclists that break the law I have seen just as many driver who are oblivious to cyclists. When I was a bike courier I was almost killed by stupid drivers many times. If I hadn't been driving defensively on my bike I wouldn't be here...

Two prime examples:

1) a taxi cab drifting towards the curb squished me off the road, he was oblivious to what he'd done. Luckily there were no newspaper boxes or pedestrians on the sidewalk when I jumped the curb to escape

2) lady getting out of her car in a no parking zone (she was getting out to go and buy a coffee) I failed to see that she was getting out. I hit her car door and rolled into the traffic. The front tire of a bus stopped a foot or two from my head.
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Old 06-13-2006, 04:27 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Now I know I had a bicycle safety course when I was a kid..i think it was part of PE class.. we were always on bikes when we were kids.. we just weren't allowed to ride to school because we'd have to cross a very busy street...

we learned the rules of the road as well as how to do the arm signals for turning and stopping (though i'm not sure i'd remember them now)..

Is bicycle education or safety taught anymore, or do we just slap a helmet on a kid and tell them to have at it and hope for the best.. (we never thought to have helmets so we had to be a little proactive)
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Old 06-13-2006, 06:38 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Sounds more like a London Police fundraiser. No problems with enforcing the regulations but the fines are off the chart.
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Old 06-13-2006, 06:44 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I agree with the fines and the way things are handled where I live. Here, state law treats bicycles and cars the same for many traffic offenses, including the fines associated with the violation. Every summer when the bicycle clubs start again, we begin to get complaints about people riding in traffic and failing to move over. The car driver yells at the bicyclist and the bicyclist makes an obscene guesture. The local cops had no choice but to confront both sides and explain the laws to everyone. After three years of this, it has finally gotten better.
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Old 06-13-2006, 06:58 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Old 06-13-2006, 07:09 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I live in a very bike-oriented city--lots of bike lanes/paths. Yet a lot of folks around here don't seem to know or obey the rules of the road--especially the college students. They think, especially because they're on campus, that they don't have to stop for pedestrians or they can just zip right through a stop sign. Well, tell ya what--that stop sign was put there for their protection. I'm just waiting for one of those idiots to get creamed by a car or to mangle a pedestrian.

As a cyclist I can say that I always obey the rules of the road on busy roads, signalling and all. I might not pay as much attention on slow side streets where traffic is minimal at best, but I generally stick with traffic (duh) and stop for stop signs (or at least slow down).

Generally I agree with the fines, because a cyclist obeying the rules of the road as they should be should never get one. And I must say I'm glad every time I see a cop with a cyclist pulled over--cars aren't the only things that can break the law.
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Old 06-13-2006, 07:23 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by settie
Cycling Offences
- Biking on sidewalk: $135 - Ridiculous. I've been *bumped* by a car while riding in the road like I'm supposed to, and riding on the side of the road is often impractical as they allow bushes and trees to grow too far out in many places around Raleigh. Bikers should be in control of their bikes the whole time. Should they ride on a crowded sidewalk? Probably not. But if there's just one person fifty feet up, pass them on the left and wave 'hi.' And I'd much rather younger kids on bikes ride the sidewalk in case something happens.
- Running a red light: $180 - Understandable. People get hurt by disregarding simple laws like this.
- Not wearing child safety helmet: $85 - I never did even though it was a law here, but a good idea nonetheless.
- Lack of proper lighting: $35 - You're a much smaller object than people expect to see in or around the road. You need to bring up visibility, especially at night.
- Improper brakes: $110 - I have no idea what "improper brakes are, but it's probably a good idea to have proper ones.
- No horn or bell: $110 - You know, yelling "HEY!" always worked for me. Was a lot louder too. And I think I'd be a lot more worried if it sounded like a clown was quickly catching up to me.
- Cycling the wrong way on a one-way street: $110 - Eh... iffy. I definitely see where it comes from, and wouldn't knock an area for having it, but sometimes it's just faster to go that way. Especially if you're on the sidewalk.
- Ignoring railroad crossing restrictions: $110 - Big trains come through here. If you think you're Huffy can take on Thomas the Tank Engine, you're probably not going to appreciate how good that $110 fine could be for you.
- Riding in a crosswalk: $110 - Again, people should be in control of the bikes they're riding. If you cross using the crosswalk, make sure you're careful around the people who are also there.

I think I'm going to keep the phrase "Rogue Cyclist" in my vocabulary from now on though.
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Old 06-13-2006, 07:38 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Old 06-13-2006, 07:45 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I think it depends on how long the sidewalk is... I think it's also directed more for adults than for children...

If it's a city type sidewalk, then the bike doesn't belong there...
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Old 06-13-2006, 07:59 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maleficent
If it's a city type sidewalk, then the bike doesn't belong there...
Yeeeaaah...but, there's a huge difference between a sidewalk in New York City vs a sidewalk in Omaha, Nebraska. I think that it calls for adjusting to conditions.
Also, I don't mind cyclists on the side streets, in the least. However, when you're cycling on a major street, or city artery, then expect to be honked at and flipped off as you hold up commuter traffic. Omaha is not designed to be bicycle commuter friendly. There are a ton of trails...but they're just for pleasure riding. They don't really "go" anywhere. That leaves the streets, unsafe as they are. Yet...there are still those that insist.
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Old 06-13-2006, 08:31 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I think it depends on the city. I think I've seen about 5 bicyclists on the road in the whole time that I've been here, and we're a big city. In someplace like New York City, I'm sure I'd hate the bikers.. but right now, I don't see the need for any of these laws; at least here.
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Old 06-13-2006, 08:48 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Living in a college town I know the need for these laws. Bikes are subject to the same laws that cars are around here. I can't tell you how many times I've almot killed a biker because he wasn't payoing attention to the rules of the road. If they want to share the road with automobiles then they have to abide by the same rules. I totally agree with all those fines.
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Old 06-13-2006, 02:08 PM   #23 (permalink)
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If there are all the sidewalk regulations, I would like to see that fine money to go building bike lanes...

Or quit bitching about us holding you up. It's your choice really.

And a bell or horn? Fuck that... Thats ridiculous.

And how do you check for adequete brakes on a bike anyway?
I mean, I know how to check to see when I need new pads, but....
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Old 06-13-2006, 03:47 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Good I'm fucking sick of seeing cyclists running red lights. I wonder if they can get pulled over for speeding as well (I had a bike pass me on a long hill while I was going 40 the other day).
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Old 06-13-2006, 03:52 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kutulu
Good I'm fucking sick of seeing cyclists running red lights. I wonder if they can get pulled over for speeding as well (I had a bike pass me on a long hill while I was going 40 the other day).
Hey, I would never run a red light... that's just asking for death or dismemberment. Stop signs on the other hand... Hell, half the cars on the road do "rolling stops" you can't expect any better from bikes.

As for speeding, while I'll bet we can, I doubt it happens. The relative destruction onto other people/peoples property from a speeding bike is a little differant than that of a car... Physics and momentum...
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Old 06-13-2006, 04:04 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krwlz
If there are all the sidewalk regulations, I would like to see that fine money to go building bike lanes...
In the mountains where I live we have massive construction projects to build bike lanes. Bicyclists use them to ride 2-3 across and block traffic anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krwlz
Or quit bitching about us holding you up. It's your choice really.
How so? There is exactly one reasonably direct path between my home and work. Summer bicyclists that won't obey the local laws (single file, impeding traffic) double my commute time. If your commute doubled from 25 min to 50 because of people that can't seem to follow the rules, I bet you'd bitch too

Quote:
Originally Posted by krwlz
And a bell or horn? Fuck that... Thats ridiculous.

And how do you check for adequete brakes on a bike anyway?
I mean, I know how to check to see when I need new pads, but....
Don't know about bell or horns, but the dumbasses that have crossed the center line and hit my motorcycle twice need to do something about their brakes. If I was driving a pickup truck, they'd be dead
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Old 06-13-2006, 04:48 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bparker805
i got a $271 ticket for riding my bike on the wrong side of the road... so much for excersise.
yeowch mine was only $27!
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Old 06-13-2006, 09:33 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by aberkok
I have to agree with the fines. Bikes belong on the road. I know it's dangerous, but it's safer than being on the sidewalk endangering pedestrians. In my hometown of Kingston, someone was killed by a cyclist when walking out of a store and it became quite a big news story, not because Kingston is boring (it is) but because it riled up people on both sides of the bike issue.

I cycle across downtown Toronto to get to work and I'm a firm believer in strict rules for bikes and as far as I know, every fine listed above is similar in Toronto. I have all the right lights and a bell, and I treat road rules as if I am a car. The more cyclists obey the rules, the more respect we'll have and the more people, I think, will be attracted to the bike as a serious form of short and mid range travel.

Of course the flipside to my law-abiding attitude is a seething rage against our car-centric society. I am sick and tired of concessions being made for cyclists only when it's convenient for drivers. Want a bike lane? Well that'd choke the automobile traffic so it just wouldn't work there...

Inside me co-exists the Professor X and the Magneto of cycling.

Now, don't get me wrong in the following, I'm not condoning disregard for the rules of the road with cyclists, but it seems to me the priorities are a little off.

One person gets killed by a "rogue cyclist" in Toronto in the last, what, ten years? twenty? ever? and there is a huge deal made of it. Good god, those cyclists, they're downright dangerous, something must be done! Call me obvious, but I think many more people have been killed by "rogue drivers" or whatever you want to call them. I don't see that much of a something must be done attitude about that.

I guess because it happens every day, even every hour, it doesn't matter as much. People have accepted it. Is this a case of can't do anything about autos so we'll rally behind the current cause of the day?
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Old 06-13-2006, 10:18 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Janie
I guess because it happens every day, even every hour, it doesn't matter as much. People have accepted it. Is this a case of can't do anything about autos so we'll rally behind the current cause of the day?
Of course this is a 'cause of the day' thing. A while ago the local police did a crack down on jay walking. Did it really do anything except revenue raise and annoy people - nope, but it only lasted about a week, then back to normal.

In a week, everyone will have forgotten this happened too.

Having said all that, I agree with cracking down on the things that affect safety and that includes most of the original list posted.
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Old 06-14-2006, 03:31 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Cyclists here in Toronto are awful - by far, IMO, more cyclists regularly blow through reds and stop signs, ride dangerously and scoff at the law. I say this as someone who rides a bike, drives and walks in this city. Sure, there are some good cyclists, but the majority riding in the city are not.
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Old 06-14-2006, 05:25 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevie667
Half of cyclists shouldn't be on the road in the first place, and its the people who know how to drive yet think bikes are somehow immune to traffic laws that really piss me off.
Sounds like regular drivers, although I'd say closer to 90% of them shouldn't be allowed on the road.

If you're on a bike, not stopping for red lights and stop signs is a danger to you, a danger to everyone else, and will end up leaving you as proof that Darwin was right.
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Old 06-14-2006, 08:04 AM   #32 (permalink)
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It doesn't sound like they have created new rules; they are only making a push to enforce the laws on the books. In many places, bikes are under the same laws as cars, and those who are in those places get to follow those rules or pay the penalty if caught not following them. A non-issue, if you ask me.
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Old 06-14-2006, 02:18 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StanT
In the mountains where I live we have massive construction projects to build bike lanes. Bicyclists use them to ride 2-3 across and block traffic anyway.

How so? There is exactly one reasonably direct path between my home and work. Summer bicyclists that won't obey the local laws (single file, impeding traffic) double my commute time. If your commute doubled from 25 min to 50 because of people that can't seem to follow the rules, I bet you'd bitch too


Don't know about bell or horns, but the dumbasses that have crossed the center line and hit my motorcycle twice need to do something about their brakes. If I was driving a pickup truck, they'd be dead
To address each of these... If there is a provided lane and they still block traffic, they are in the wrong. No doubt about it. I agree with you.

I'm not saying disobey the laws, simply give us a place to obey them in. And theres no reason for them to be crossing the center line, and comming anywhere near your motorcycle.

I'm not saying there arnt idiots out there... we all know the truth of that.

And in the end, its just like pedestrians... They may be breaking the law, but you cant run em over... Its not worth the manslaughter charge ya know?
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Old 06-14-2006, 02:39 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Old 06-14-2006, 09:32 PM   #35 (permalink)
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There are certain sidewalks that are ok for bicycles and ones that aren't. If there are storefronts and are very narrow, then there shouldn't be bicycles, but in a residential neighborhood where there is grass on either side, it isn't a problem.

Running a red light isn't common, and is just like jay-walking. I only do it a three way intersections when pedestrians wouldn't stop either. And only if I'm riding on a big sidewalk.

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And I always ride in crosswalks, but there are no people walking. I think the reasoning is because cars don't expect a fast moving person in the crosswalk that isn't there and then suddenly is. But, I am always watching the cars.

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