mixedmedia

well, I've done this once before...to shakran.

In that instance he was able to re-post it...don't think that's a possibility this time.

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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

analog

Yes- because i'm extra perfect.

Yeah I never got that... quoting vs. editing don't look anything like each other... like when you edit, you don't see any QUOTE tags in it. *shrug*

roachboy

on the esquire piece...

most of what i would have said mm has already said, so i'll just add something from my own experience.

when i weighed around 500 lbs, my mother would sometimes try this "radical honesty" shit on me.
it would consist of sentences like:

"i have had to start therapy in order to help me deal with your weight"
and
"you used to be a good looking young man--now just look at you."
and
"i am ashamed to be seen in public with you."

and--my favorite--she started clipping articles and photos from newspapers concerning fat people who died and send them to me. the best was a photo of a piano crate containing the earthly remains of a 900 lb guy being lowered into a grave. that one i kept tacked to my refrigerator for a long time after i got it.

there really is no way to confuse this kind of "radical honesty" with anything that could possibly be useful for the addresee--i can tell you without any hesitation that all this "radical honesty" did was make maintaining a relationship with her even more difficult than it already was---it was not helpful, it did not inspire any action, it had no bearing on the changes i later implemented that resulted in starting to loose weight.

and had it come from anyone else, there would have been no question of maintaining a relationship, in the way that there often is not after you punch someone in the face.

because let's be a little honest with ourselves here: such statements are about nothing but the narcissism of the speaker.

it is not as though your particular views about questions of body image are strict reproductions of some social norm. and no-one appoints a social norm police. there isnt any norm police. you are not the norm police.
and chances are that no-one gives a fuck what you find attractive or not attractive in others.

and it is not as though i was able to forget that i weighed 500 lbs--hell, if there was a day when i felt too removed from it, all i needed to do was turn at the wrong time as i was walking by a building or--if i really wanted to know--i could go to a clothing store and try to find something that actually fit. reminders of american body fascism are everywhere all the time, and you have to be blind to not see them (actually that's only sort of true--you have to conform to the requirements as to body type or--and this is far more difficult and something i never managed--be comfortable with yourself and your body weight/type to not see them)

at any rate, one thing tht "radical honesty" would enable you to do is to hunt down those folk who might actually be comfortable with themselves and their body type and get yourselves into needless pointless fights with them.

that's great idea.

i dont suppose dr blanton could have sold a book on radical cloddishness, but that's what he is adocating.

"be free--let your inner clod express itself."

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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Willravel

Interesting post, rb, and congratulations on becoming healthier. You're right in that the radical honesty you described above is more about self than the addressed, but I don't know if that's the whole thing. After reading the article I did find that I might coddle people a bit too much. If someone asks my honest opinion, I wouldn't be out of line for giving it to them. Unsolicited, no, but solicited, yes. If someone were overweight and asked my opinion of their health, I wouldn't be doing them any favors by coddling them, and obesity is a disease, of course. I would never dream of going as far as using passive aggressive language towards someone, though. That's not honesty, as honesty would in my mind include necessity. If something isn't necessary to say, then saying it isn't honest to the need to say it (I really hope that makes as much sense to everyone else).

I suspect that Dr. Blanton is punched in the face a lot.

mixedmedia

Well, you're right, but it was early in the morning and I just didn't notice it. I have hit the edit button before and noticed it. I just didn't this time.

Irregardless, I see that you were able to fix it. Wish I could remember what I wrote, lol.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Ustwo

So what did motivate you rb?

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roachboy

ustwo:

it's kinda complicated to explain here (as most personal life things are when you arent sure about how to present them in this format, you know?)...since you're in chicago and since there's a side of me that's long been curious about meeting you, if you like sometime i'll explain it over a beer.

but in writing, here, the ultra-shorthand version

my life exploded.
i decided to stop drinking alcohol with the athletic committment that i had been.
i changed my diet entirely, eliminating all processed foods.
when i left the bay area, i got rid of my 98, my ultimate homeboy car.

all i set out to do was change things around about how i was living because i was bored with much of it and unhappy about all of it.

a couple years later, i started riding a bike, mostly because i met a bunch of folk who rode in philly and it seemed preferable to public transport.
and i just kept doing that.

i never "went on a diet" or "started an exercise regimen" so now it seems like the weightloss was a huge unintended consequence of other actions.
if i had "gone on a diet" or "started exercising" i wouldn't have managed it.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Sensei

I remember when this came out in print a few months ago. A good read but it's not exactly going to be my new religion.

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Redjake

Cool article, but it doesn't have a "real life" application.

Why?

Not everyone is going to react the same way. There is absolutely no reason to start being brutally honest unless everyone is going to take it the same way. If we could "wipe the slate clean," start new with the way society is today, I definitely think we should go with the brutally honest system. But in today's world, it just wouldn't work.

It would literally get people killed.

Your coworker says, "hey, do you like my new hair?"

"no, it looked much better before. In fact, it makes you look down right unattractive right now."

The end. You never speak to that coworker again. They might even take it to their boss.

You just can't go and do shit like this. It's a fantastic idea if everyone had a level head and could take it without going apeshit. I can see many good relationships that are built on white lies unraveling. Not everything that is built on white lies is bad.

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dd3953

I just got done watching a TED talk by AJ Jacobs about his book The Year Living Biblically - a friend of mine is reading it, so I though I'd watch. That's how I found the link for this article. I searched TFP because I figured someone was talking about it, and look, quite a few someones have. And I'm happy I took the time to read the whole thing.

I'm not sure being radically honest is an excuse for being rude. There are ways to be direct and honest without being rude. Granted, I am still learning, I have little of the thing called 'tact.' And I agree with Crompsin's point that society is looking for reasons to be polite. The whole movement towards being politically correct is the first thing to come to mind.

Nor do I think that being honest is self-gratification. When Jacobs told the old man his poetry was good, who was hurt? The old man is going to send that to people, share, and when someone tells him the truth, how is he going to feel?

I see no problem with telling someone they are fat, if they asked. Now, I'm not just going to run around saying rude shit to people, but if you ask my opinion, it's my duty to tell you. Not to make me feel better, but to give you an honest answer.

I didn't think on the situation as deeply as Willravel, but what he says makes sense, honestly, with YOURSELF, will lead to better you. But I also think it'll make it easier for you to be honest with others without being rude or condescending.

I grow up in the household where honesty was not discussed, it was expected. If someone smelled bad, you told them. If you didn't like what they were doing, you said something. If you felt some type of way about something and didn't say something, it was your fault. People I meet (and am friends with) say that I am blunt, of topic, and often rude, but they know that I am saying what I understand to be the truth and that my goal is not to hurt anyone. And when I am honest with them, they return the favor, I have very few friendships, but the ones I have are built on true communication.
These very same people say that I should "think more' before I speak. I change topics instead of saying I'm bored, I talk about sex something like every 8 minutes, and I speak what's on my mind, and don't when there's nothing there.

What I found interesting was A.J.'s willingness to be honest in some situations, but not all. I can't help but wonder how we are taught, so quietly, when to join in the social convention of "white lies?" And if it's all born from our desire to be "liked" by those around us. Because, while I am honesty, it's only about 89%* of the time. The other 11%* is ruled by the desire to follow social convention.

I agree with Sapiens. Not only is it easiest for me when talking to a family member or friend, but how much worth is there in telling a acquaintance or stranger? People I could care less about get about 9% of the lies I tell.
Crompsin, when my best friends or sisters are looking for comfort lies, they don't call me. But I do agree that we are conditioned to be deceptive.

QuasiMondo - I wonder if truth is nothing but an opinion, a point of view, in the realm of everyday life. It's not like we have 100s of studies that we can carry around with us and use as proof to back up our understanding of truth. But if we can keep our minds open and can listen to what someone else labels their truth, we open ourselves up to changing our understanding of the topic, no matter what it might be. The truth is not unchanging.

Baraka, our words do have power, and everything should have a purpose, but what type of power do lies have? And can that power outweigh the purpose?

Analog, I appreciate your post (#40) because you saw what I did, and that's what I try to do. Not always I am I given the opportunity to make it to "statement 2' but when I do a pretty good conversation usually follows.
I think there is a difference between your examples.

'Your's dressed like an idiot' calls the other person out and makes them feel some type of way. While 'The way you've dressed yourself is ludicrous and I'm embarrassed to be here with you' focuses on the speaker and allows the other person a change to understand where you are coming from. It also allows for a conversation that is born from yelling.

Ustwo, (post 45) LOL, that is the world we are living in. Maybe that's why Blanton wrote his book.

Mixedmedia - "Most of it is just useless bullshit and isn't deserving of the importance we place on it or the energy that is expended to push it out of our mouths." That's how I feel about lies, in all sizes, and beating around the bush. It's too much energy. If I ask you how I did, don't waste time on the "compliment sandwich;" I am grateful for the things I did 'well" but I need to know what you think can be done better, I'm asking for a reason. If we are discussing something, I want to know what you really think, not what you think I want to hear, or you agreeing with me because it's easy. These are some of the things I were I think brutal, radical, blunt honesty needs to be practiced.

After this, I might have been sold. I'm going to find a copy of his book Radical Honesty. While I might agree to give up my 11%* of lies, I'm sure I'll learn something.

*numbers were made up of the top of my head, and are as close to the truth as I can see.
**excuse me for not quoting people, but i'm lazy.

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