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Old 03-03-2008, 08:30 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Lots of lying authors runnin' round these days

First there was James Frey's "A Million Little Pieces," a tale of drugs, addiction, hard luck, and redemption. A best seller and a featured book in Oprah's book club. A million little lies.

Then we learn about Misha Defonseca, a Holocaust survivor who wrote a harrowing tale of living with a pack of wolves, hiding from Nazis, and trekking 1900 miles in search of her parents who were deported. Turns out none of it was true. She's not even Jewish.

Holocaust Memoir Turns Out to Be Fiction   click to show 


And now, we have another liar in the literary world.
Author Admits Acclaimed Memoir Is Fantasy   click to show 


I dunno what to make of these false tales of woe. Should we be upset at the authors who was able to sucker the publishers out of millions in advance money, or should we laugh at anybody who was taken in by these stories.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a Gulf War memoir to work on.
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-From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

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Old 03-04-2008, 04:07 AM   #2 (permalink)
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It is rare to get millions in advance. And advances are usually against the royalties, so if the book sells, the publisher has little to worry about except the public relations.
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Old 03-04-2008, 05:11 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I remember working at Barnes & Noble during the James Frey hype and eventual scandal. At one point, some of my coworkers had to place disclaimers from the publisher in each copy of the book because people blew things so far out of proportion and angrily returning their copies.

Since I rarely ever read auto/biographies, whether they lie or tell the truth really doesn't matter to me. But I think it says quite a bit about the quality of the writing if it couldn't make it as a work of fiction.
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Old 03-04-2008, 07:31 AM   #4 (permalink)
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And today the TV show host from Dinner Impossible is caught in a lie on his resume.

There are many people who lie, there are few that get caught.
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Old 03-04-2008, 10:34 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Neither was she adopted by wolves who protected her from the Nazis,

Really?
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Old 03-04-2008, 10:38 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Like you have never been adopted by wolves Ustwo, phsaw.

And to actually add to this thread..

I think that it should not be allowed. For them to tote there works as being true and making sales on that fact should not be allowed. Same thing as a product producing specific results, you can't just make up the results.

Now if they were to sell there book as a fiction, that would be a totally different story.

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Old 03-04-2008, 11:03 AM   #7 (permalink)
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To me, the fact it's not true makes it a better book. It takes a lot more imagination to make something up and be able to pass it off as truth than it does to just tell about something that happened.

Plus, a good story is a good story regardless of its legitimacy.
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Old 03-04-2008, 11:49 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I'm of the opinion that there aren't really any MORE of these duplicitous authors these days than there were in the past. Rather, I'd chalk it up to our living in an information-flooded era. It's a whole lot easier to do some cursory background checks than it was even 10 years ago. People need to realize that their lies can be uncovered with a simple Google search.
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I found this piece in the comments section of the New York Times:

Quote:
The thing that is most disturbing about this and similar situations is that it will make it harder for authors with challenging, compelling (and actually truthful!) memoirs to be heard. Like my story for example. I was born at high altitutde in Tibet in the mid sixties to a couple who were doing peace corp work. My father was Korean-american and my mother was of half Swedish/half Australian aboriginal descent, which gave me an appearance that allowed me to pass as any race that I wished. As I was to discover later in life this was a quality that would prove very important. My first years were very idyllic, living out on the steppes of Tibet, about a hundred miles from Lhasa, the bustling capital. My earliest memories are of the great herds of yak that the villagers would tend to. I was a fearless child, and even at the age of five, I could run up to a yak and leap on its back, holding on strongly to its main, as it galloped on the tundra. I developed a very strong intuition about the animals, until at one point it was as if I was actually part yak as well as being part Korean, part Swedish and part Aborigine. The villagers knew me as “He that holds the main without fear”, but of course they said it in Tibetan. At some point my reputation came to the attention of a group of monks who were looking for the next in line of succession of lamas. Amazingly, they said they saw in me the spirit of the lama, that I was the reincarnation of a long dead lama. My parents were highly suspicious, but then they thought it would be a very culturally enriching experience if I was to go with them, and be a lama for a while. So, reluctantly they gave their permission, and that was it, I left the village to go to the monastery of Gyegu Fa with the monks. It was amazing; I was revered as almost a god. To cut a long story short, the monastery was raided by the Chinese and everyone was killed but me. I was taken as a mascot for the Chinese troops. I spent months with them. One night I fell off the back of the troop truck into a river and was lost to them. I almost died. I was adopted by a herd of yaks, who recognized me. I lived with the yaks for a year. Eventually I went to Afganistan and ran hashish. Then I stole a plane and flew to Iceland. I became addicted to heroin and played in a band with Bjorks younger, hotter sister Babja. I kicked heroin and became addicted to exstacy. I ended up hugging the wrong person in an extasy induced haze in Amsterdam and got beaten up, until some Dutch Hells Angels came to my rescue. I ran with them for a year. Eventually I became a cardiac-thoracic surgeon in Argentina, and actually put in the mitral valve of the dreaded dictator Auguste Pinoche.
So, this is the material that is in the first chapter of my memoir. But my fear is that with this recent spate of so-called memoirs that turn out to be fakes, people will look with suspicion on my, admittedly unbelievable, life. However, you can check on any aspect of my story and find that it is true. Just ask Babja.
Sad that we'll never know the full story because of dishonest authors.
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-From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator
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Old 03-04-2008, 02:13 PM   #10 (permalink)
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If the book is still good, does it matter that much? We should just move it from the non-fiction section and continue on with our day, I say.
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Old 03-04-2008, 03:49 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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you know, this "issue" has bugged me for a while.

what exactly is a "true" memoir?

why are fantasies that you might have or have had any less "true" than things you may have done in 3-d for example? stuff you make up is as "true" was other things to the extent that the memoir is about your life and your life includes all kinds of stuff that is basically in your head. if you wanted to make a "true" account of your experience, that experience would include a vast array of material that was only "true" because it happened somewhere in that strange zone that links your 3-d vector space and the interpretations you lay over them continually---unless you imagine that perception is itself not--uh---mediated---in which case, it is YOU who are trafficking in fiction.

think about it another way: when you are making a sentence you think of something to do with the sentence that comes out---do you hear sentences before you say them or write them? if you don't, then none of them "represent" anything, they all POSIT and so from a certain viewpoint all sentences are false--or the question true/false has no meaning at this level.

a memoir is a collection of sentences. it does not document the world, it documents a sequence of mediations---experience processed through the genre conventions of memoir, memory processed through them: the involve the construction of a narrator, which is NOT the same as the fiction of an "i" that moves through any particular experience...so the viewpoint from which a memoir is told (that of the I) is necessarily a fiction--unless what constitutes the "real" of the narrator is the process of writing the narrator--but sentences cannot account for the modalities through which they are produced (try it) so that doesn't work either.

so what?

everybody lies about their experience all the time--almost all of our stories are lies at one level or another--it's probably MORE accurate a representation of the status of the information inside a memoir that MOST of the "factual" material turns out to be false--or dubious or suspect. and the MOST accurate memoir, the one that most closely documents your experience, would be indeterminate as to "true" or "false"---because it'd be both, continually---but that would be flattened, irrelevant because they are your experience--and so they'd be TRUE to the extent that your experience--really---is your trajectory along a shifting boundary between "true" (what corresponds to phenomena in the world, to be naive about it) and "false" (the inverse)--so this boundary IS your experience--but record of it necessarily false because the experience of moving along this shifting boundary and that of writing about moving along that shifting boundary are NOT the same. they can't be. they aren't.

what can be "the same" is a one-dimensional account of certain aspects of your experience, the vailidity of which is a function of style. the realism effect, call it.

you could even say that a memoir is predicated on the suppression of the experience it is supposed to record because it substitutes a linear narrative form and causal frame for an experience that is neither. this because it substitutes one temporal relation for another.


where'd the idea that your memory is like a camera and that it records events come from?
and who the thinks that what a camera records is not problematic?
any footage is a VERSION of events, none of it is entirely "true" none of it is entirely "false" there is uncertainty.
there is always uncertainty.

you just have to deal with it.

the fiction is that this is not the case.
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Old 03-04-2008, 04:15 PM   #12 (permalink)
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True memoir:
Today, I awoke slowly. I'd programmed Nash Bridges to come on at 7:00AM because it was a lot less obtrusive than an alarm. Sometimes it's nice to hear a Hemi 'Cuda first thing.

I did my stretches and pushups, getting my blood flowing and preparing me for the day. I've often found that, while I prefer to exercise in the evening, coffee falls short of physical activity in order to provide one with enough life to last until breakfast is being digested.

Ah, breakfast. Toast made from organic whole wheat bread that I bought from a local bakery with fresh orange juice and a hard boiled egg filled my belly and gave me that indescribable satisfaction; "ahhh".


Not a true memoir:
I awoke to having an anti-Nazi wolf lick my face. I'd been living with the wolves for some time, along my 1900 mile walk. Oh, and I'm Jewish. I wish I had toast.
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Old 03-04-2008, 04:22 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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well, will, that just depends now doesn't it?
i mean, the distinction operates inside the larger one that separates the tedious memoir from the maybe not-tedious memoir.

this:
Quote:
Today, I awoke slowly. I'd programmed Nash Bridges to come on at 7:00AM because it was a lot less obtrusive than an alarm. Sometimes it's nice to hear a Hemi 'Cuda first thing.

I did my stretches and pushups, getting my blood flowing and preparing me for the day. I've often found that, while I prefer to exercise in the evening, coffee falls short of physical activity in order to provide one with enough life to last until breakfast is being digested.

Ah, breakfast. Toast made from organic whole wheat bread that I bought from a local bakery with fresh orange juice and a hard boiled egg filled my belly and gave me that indescribable satisfaction; "ahhh".
may be true, but it's tedious.
while this:

Quote:
I awoke to having an anti-Nazi wolf lick my face. I'd been living with the wolves for some time, along my 1900 mile walk. Oh, and I'm Jewish. I wish I had toast.
has potential. i prefer it to "call me ishmael" at any rate.
if this kept going in a cool way, i'd be far more into it than the "true" memoir, wouldn't you?
i mean, who would you rather hang around with?
both are autobiographical fictions about this character called "I" and one "I" is kinda interesting. the other watches too much tv.
way too much tv.

and both are equally true depending on how you chose to look at what a memoir is or does.
there are choices, comrades: you don't have to copy all the conventions of a form just because they exist. and the conventions are just conventions.
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Old 03-04-2008, 04:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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It's tedious on purpose. I was creating contrast. I was also critiquing many horrible memoirs I've read.

I've never been licked by an anti-Nazi wolf, rb. In fact, I'd dare say that nothing has ever happened to me which could be romantically described as being licked by an anti-Nazi wolf. It was a falsehood. An intentional mis-telling. Don't get me wrong, I love fiction. It belongs in the fiction section, though, not the autobiography section. This is simply about honesty in categorization.
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Old 03-04-2008, 04:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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but if the story is of "your life" and you imagined it--its just as much part of your "life" as eating an egg. where's the distinction? how does it work? seems arbitrary to me. doesn't it seem arbitrary to you? that what you think or imagine or make up is less part of your life than hitting a rock as you walk down the street, that your inner world is worth less than the most tiresome incident involving something external to yourself? well, an object--the category of rock is your plaything. well, a collective plaything that you take over--o but there's another problem, this silly boundary between collective and private when you start thinking about this language business...and then it just starts getting worse....


nb: can i just say that seeing ghandi staring down at my sentences like that freaks me out?
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Old 03-04-2008, 04:58 PM   #16 (permalink)
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There's a line between a bit of embellishing and just winging it completely. It's even more disingenuous when the story you've written doesn't even match up with your lifestyle. Can you imagine someone writing memoirs of being a pirate when they've never been out to sea? Or how about a war memoir based on the hours they spent playing 'Call of Duty' and 'SOCOM' and watching 'Saving Private Ryan' and 'Full Metal Jacket'?

Lot of folks question if the books were really that good, why not just publish them as fiction? Because they're obviously wouldn't stand on their own if they were fiction. Being raised by wolves is cute when you're Rudyard Kipling writing a children's tale, but when you're trying to compete with the likes of Dean Koontz or Stephen King or Tom Clancy, that just won't cut it. We're also less inclined to be critical because you assume that a non-fiction writer isn't going to be as well polished as a fiction writer so the inconsistencies and other things that we'd slam a fiction writer over get passed.

In the end, I still laugh at those who got suckered into their tales of woe.
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Old 03-04-2008, 05:02 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roachboy
but if the story is of "your life" and you imagined it--its just as much part of your "life" as eating an egg. where's the distinction? how does it work? seems arbitrary to me. doesn't it seem arbitrary to you? that what you think or imagine or make up is less part of your life than hitting a rock as you walk down the street, that your inner world is worth less than the most tiresome incident involving something external to yourself? well, an object--the category of rock is your plaything. well, a collective plaything that you take over--o but there's another problem, this silly boundary between collective and private when you start thinking about this language business...and then it just starts getting worse....
I know that you prefer a more open type of categorization, but for most people, myself included, these people are trying to take credit for something that they never did. That's the line which is crossed. A lie is only arbitrary when considered subjectively. Objectively, usually lying is wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roachboy
nb: can i just say that seeing ghandi staring down at my sentences like that freaks me out?
He's staring at ALL my posts. How do you think I feel?

He's there to keep me honest and on track. A WWJD bracelet for an atheist.
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Old 03-04-2008, 05:12 PM   #18 (permalink)
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"Memoir" is just another word for "ego trip" in my experience. It's always amazed me to read memoirs of people that witnessed the same event and see how much they distort it. RB, perhaps you've read Witte's memoir and compared it to Nicholas' letters. The only two guys in the room agrandized themselves at each other's expense. Reed vs. Trotsky for the October Revolution as well.

I generally read them to find the interesting minor details of events.
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Old 03-05-2008, 05:58 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
Neither was she adopted by wolves who protected her from the Nazis,

Really?

Sure, happens all the time. I myself lived with a den of mongooses (mongeese?) for a period of 14 days during the Gulf War. Except it wasn't Nazis I was hiding from, but my Mom after I had broken the mirror in her room...
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Old 03-05-2008, 06:06 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crack
I myself lived with a den of mongooses (mongeese?) for a period of 14 days during the Gulf War.
An obvious lie. If you'd actually lived with the mongeese, you'd know which is their preferred term.

Be careful that Oprah doesn't smite you now that you've been outed.
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Old 03-05-2008, 06:22 AM   #21 (permalink)
 
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it's funny what the fear of complexity will push you to, aint it?

fear of ambiguity, avoidance of complex judgments: you want everything solved for you by virtue of the product label--you call a book a memoir and goddamn it it should taste like a memoir and cooking times should not vary. this is a commodity world and we like the predictability that commodity form provides. corn flakes are corn flakes, a dunkin hines cake mix is a dunkin hines cake mix and a memoir should provide an unproblematic vicarious experience not as experience is or might plausibly be modelled, but as we want it to be, like you see on television--a physical thing moving through a field of other things, that's real: none of this process crap, none of this making of meaning crap---memoirs allow us to dream ourselves as commodified versions of ourselves.

what "happens" is what you see, modelled on what television can reproduce.
nothing else is real.

these "memoirs" are models that reinforce the idea that being abject in the fact of our own experience is a good idea.

which of course oprah is all about.
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Old 03-05-2008, 08:00 AM   #22 (permalink)
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There is a world of difference between ones perception of reality and deliberate fiction.

Perhaps, some day writing the memoir of Ustwo I may write something like....

'the group seemed to be transfixed by my words, and I knew I would be the one who would have to lead this revoltuion!'

When reality was...

'They were bored with hearing me blather on about which I knew little, but needed me because I had the only secure place for our meetings, so they would humor me by allowing me to pontificate a bit before getting on with the serious business at hand.'

The first might be false but false due to my perception, and somewhat expected in a memoir.

But if I were to currently write either version and claim it was a memoir it would just be a lie, and most likely poor fiction that would not stand on its own without the lie.

This post was based on a true story.
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Old 03-05-2008, 03:23 PM   #23 (permalink)
 
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in the end, comrade, it's all a matter of style.
practice practice: we all need it.
what else do we do here, really?
practice making sentences that enable the garble we post to appear coherent.
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Old 03-05-2008, 05:13 PM   #24 (permalink)
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So I found an excerpt from Love and Consequences. Decide for yourselves, but personally, I think that as a novel, this wouldn't even hold a candle to ghetto fiction, much less movies like Boyz 'n' da Hood or Meanace II Society.

Love and Consequences, Chapter 1   click to show 


Apparently making things worse was that this appeared to be a coordinated lie. The publishers met people that claimed to be from her foster family.
Fallout From A Literary Fraud   click to show 
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Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer.

-From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

Last edited by QuasiMondo; 03-05-2008 at 05:29 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 03-06-2008, 10:59 AM   #25 (permalink)
 
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ha...talk about the power of a word, or experience...
..as we perceive it to be, or wished it to be...
such a transparent filament of our pigmented selves..fragments...clinging
to accepted levels, most of the time...we want to share....
we search for the medium that will speak for us..

I first read the title to this thread as someone resting on a couch
and running around at the same time....

It still fits....
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