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Old 07-21-2008, 04:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
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An Open Letter to the Community

There has been alot of things going on in my life. I've always said, "If life is hard, be harder." It pays off more often then not in most things in life. It pays off in spades when there is a clear winner and a clear loser.

This past week, I have been reflecting on a situation that I let get out of hand and I let something get personal and I lost my even footing. I lost my cool and flamed a member of the community in public. I went over it in my head like I do when I'm being "harder" and as part of the mantra I justified it to myself to believe what I did was right and just.

It was not.

In this whole fiasco there is more than a winner and a loser in the discussion, the staff and the community who stood by watching it unfold was the loser.

I have wrestled with an email for almost a week, with nothing to say. I thought originally it is because confronting my adversary would give him position and quarter. I come to realize that I was having a hard time writing it because I was just flat out wrong in my behavior. I couldn't write what I wanted to because what I needed to write was an apology for my behavior. Had I not crossed that line, I could have easily written a response email as words and ideas would have flowed from my fingers.

I have always believed that leaders that are so prolific that they are bigger than life are just as tall as you or me. They put on their pants just like I do. They also make mistakes just like you or I do.

I don't tolerate it from staff, and I should have held myself to the same standard. I let myself, the staff, and the rest of the community down. I'm sorry I won't let it happen again.

There are lots of changes afoot here at TFP, this should kind of behavior not have been one of them.

cynthetiq
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Last edited by Cynthetiq; 07-21-2008 at 04:59 PM..
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Old 07-21-2008, 04:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
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There is a fine line between dissent and disrespect, and I've crossed it. While members on both sides of the situation in question behaved in an inappropriate manner, there is no excuse for such behavior. I sincerely apologize for my behavior and I will seek, in the future, to always be respectful, even in my dissent. This is not grandstanding or martyrdom, but rather an attempt at rectifying a bad situation I helped to create.
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Holy Christ. You're back.
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
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awww I love kissing and making up

Dont know what happened, but I'm glad its been resolved...and Cyn...you're not God, you're human and mistakes are going to be made...in the END (not the struggle to the end) its how you deal with it that makes you special in my eyes
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I'm glad to see everything is worked out! Let me be the first to say that I would sorely miss either of you. I appreciate both your contributions to this board.
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:52 PM   #6 (permalink)
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are all the "bad behavior" posts still on display for all to see? link?
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Old 07-21-2008, 06:21 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Thank you Cynthetiq and willravel for your honest and sincere words. It shows a lot of strength of character. Much respect to the two of you.

Here's to evolution.
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Old 07-21-2008, 06:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I think you guys are worth your weight in gold and while these things are destined to happen - seeing them resolved so civilly and respectfully is a big part of what keeps me coming back.

Group hug.
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Old 07-21-2008, 06:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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like ive said before

arr eey ess pee eey cee tee goes a long way.

hope all is resolved and we can grow and learn from this.
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Old 07-21-2008, 06:54 PM   #10 (permalink)
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People who love one another are prone to occasional spats. It's just a fact of life.

Don't be so hard on yourselves for being passionate and human. It's good to see y'all moving onward.
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Old 07-21-2008, 06:55 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sion View Post
are all the "bad behavior" posts still on display for all to see? link?


had to be deleted after the tenth picture of flyman's ass was posted. it just got too weird. ya know what i mean.
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Old 07-21-2008, 07:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Nice save canuck.
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Old 07-21-2008, 07:42 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I missed this escapade...you take take two fairly emotionally volatile people and mix them up...well, there's going to be some things going down. Well done fellas - tfp lives on.
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Old 07-21-2008, 08:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Old 07-21-2008, 08:18 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I've been there before, and as the saying goes it takes a strong fucking person to admit to their mistakes.

I can personally say i'm glad this problem was resolved.
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Old 07-21-2008, 08:36 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Cyn, I can tell you put a lot of time into this apology.

I'm not going to join around the campfire and sing kumbayah with the rest of the crew though. I've been working on eliminating game playing and manipulation in my personal life, so why not here.

I have been thinking about the evolution of TFP for quite awhile now. I've noticed it slowly turning into a suburban neighborhood. We've got to keep appearances and make sure not to upset anyone with what we say. We have to make sure that it's 'safe'. I realize this argument has been made before and rebutted. But, I wanted to say it again because there is a change. Now the mods can't even keep their decisions?

As a teacher, I'm sure there are a lot of things going behind the scenes that we don't see. I know that I've punished many students for things that they've done. Their friends didn't see it and complained. I explained that we don't advertise problems and in order to keep the classroom going in the direction we want it to go, I have to make decisions that sometimes make people upset. With this said, there may be some plan behind the scenes that I don't see and would explain this castration of power.

I know that it is impossible to make everyone happy. That is an unrealistic goal. Battles have to be chosen and action must be taken. However, if this is the direction TFP is going, I'm not sure if I enjoy it. It seems that ego and power trips prevail. It has lost an edge and it's not as fun as it used to be. Maybe, it's because I've changed too. Most likely it's a combination.

Overall, I'm disappointed that members can have more power than moderators. I'm disheartened as to the direction I see the forum taking. I'm wise enough to realize that what will be will be. I am mature enough to know when to throw in the towel.

I have been hoping it would eventually go back to the raunchy, silly fun it used to have. I actually saw a glimmer of hope every now and again. The past couple weeks, I was very excited thinking that changes were coming and a path back to the somewhat original plan was created. I realized that even with a facelift, it's not. In fact, from what I see, it has taken the opposite fork.

I usually bite my tongue, but I felt that I needed to say this today.
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Old 07-22-2008, 08:28 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I didn't witness the events that led to this but leaders are not infallible. The ability to admit fault means a lot.
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Old 07-22-2008, 08:45 AM   #18 (permalink)
I read your emails.
 
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If ya'll keep this up your doing nothing but forcing my hand.

/where did I leave that camera?
*drops pants*




all joking aside we live and grow together as a community. We all make mistakes and I appreciate Cyn's post more than I can properly describe with words here. He is a good man, doing a great job.

I rarely see anything here that makes me raise an eyebrow (aka the "TFP eyebrow" stolen from the rock). I don't see anything that makes me think this place is change directions for the good or bad. It is fine the way it is. Maybe i am naive and don't see it but this board is still the best moderated online period.

Nobody gets special treatment, I can't recall ever seeing a mod get better treatment than a member or vise versa. Again maybe i am sheltered from that stuff but i think after how many years now i would see something that makes me think WTF. Yet nothing comes to mind.
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:04 AM   #19 (permalink)
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As always I feel like I'm on the outside looking in. I'm not sure what happened, although I had a mild heart attack when I saw that Will was gone.

The TFP has always been fairly similar to me. While my involvement in it has grown, or perhaps evolved, over time, I still find myself holding on to this notion that if I participate enough, or if I'm witty enough, that I'll be a Willravel, or Cynth, or Manic, Media, Shesus, GG, etc. But I'm not. TFP has always been cliquey, with the popular ones who everyone looks to for a comment, or a wisecrack, and that's part of its charm. At the same time it is its downfall, especially for those of us who feel we're outsiders looking in. I don't think that if I was in a position where I had been removed from the board, that I would be given a free pass; even though I've contributed, at least in my opinion, a lot to the board. A lot being at least as much as I could. I'm invested in this place as much as anyone of you; I read and consider all of your posts and try my best to add something worth reading or considering. I try to be a member in the true meaning of the word here. But I've grown up and matured enough to see the difference between the real TFP and what I wish it was. And for now I'm fine with what this place is, and with how I feel; for now.

Not sure what happened, again, but I appreciate the letter; from both of you. Not because I was involved but because it shows that I care about this place for a reason. It just makes me hope that I won't regret putting effort into caring.
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:06 AM   #20 (permalink)
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sure there will be cliques everywhere you go. however, the only way to not feel like an insider is to just jump in and make good posts. (not saying you don't btw) get involved in chat, send pms, look over the whole board. report bad posts etc etc

The TFP is continually changing and evolving that's why it's so great.
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:13 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:22 AM   #22 (permalink)
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punkmusicfan21 View Post
As always I feel like I'm on the outside looking in. I'm not sure what happened, although I had a mild heart attack when I saw that Will was gone.

The TFP has always been fairly similar to me. While my involvement in it has grown, or perhaps evolved, over time, I still find myself holding on to this notion that if I participate enough, or if I'm witty enough, that I'll be a Willravel, or Cynth, or Manic, Media, Shesus, GG, etc. But I'm not. TFP has always been cliquey, with the popular ones who everyone looks to for a comment, or a wisecrack, and that's part of its charm. At the same time it is its downfall, especially for those of us who feel we're outsiders looking in. I don't think that if I was in a position where I had been removed from the board, that I would be given a free pass; even though I've contributed, at least in my opinion, a lot to the board. A lot being at least as much as I could. I'm invested in this place as much as anyone of you; I read and consider all of your posts and try my best to add something worth reading or considering. I try to be a member in the true meaning of the word here. But I've grown up and matured enough to see the difference between the real TFP and what I wish it was. And for now I'm fine with what this place is, and with how I feel; for now.

Not sure what happened, again, but I appreciate the letter; from both of you. Not because I was involved but because it shows that I care about this place for a reason. It just makes me hope that I won't regret putting effort into caring.
Wow. This is a really interesting post. For as long as I've read your posts, I've considered you to be another of the wonderful contributors on TFP. You've shown, I think, that you're not likely to make the same mistake(s) I made.

I was banned because of something stupid I did. I don't get the impression I was banned in spite of any contributions I have made, but simply because of my decision. And I deserved it.
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:33 AM   #23 (permalink)
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This is perhaps an odd comment, but I don't understand the point of public self-flagellation and/or apologies when most of the people here haven't the slightest clue what the fuck happened. It doesn't help us understand or appreciate the situation any better or understand why what happened has made the community any better or worse. I guess if it's a feel good exercise, good for you? But, honestly, if we're not going to talk about what happened and why it happened so everyone can learn from the situation, I don't know why we're talking about it at all.

There are some tantalizing hints of what we might be talking about (esp. re: punk and shesus's posts) but without a better scope, it's kind of empty.
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:35 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punkmusicfan21 View Post
As always I feel like I'm on the outside looking in. I'm not sure what happened, although I had a mild heart attack when I saw that Will was gone.

The TFP has always been fairly similar to me. While my involvement in it has grown, or perhaps evolved, over time, I still find myself holding on to this notion that if I participate enough, or if I'm witty enough, that I'll be a Willravel, or Cynth, or Manic, Media, Shesus, GG, etc. But I'm not. TFP has always been cliquey, with the popular ones who everyone looks to for a comment, or a wisecrack, and that's part of its charm. At the same time it is its downfall, especially for those of us who feel we're outsiders looking in. I don't think that if I was in a position where I had been removed from the board, that I would be given a free pass; even though I've contributed, at least in my opinion, a lot to the board. A lot being at least as much as I could. I'm invested in this place as much as anyone of you; I read and consider all of your posts and try my best to add something worth reading or considering. I try to be a member in the true meaning of the word here. But I've grown up and matured enough to see the difference between the real TFP and what I wish it was. And for now I'm fine with what this place is, and with how I feel; for now.

Not sure what happened, again, but I appreciate the letter; from both of you. Not because I was involved but because it shows that I care about this place for a reason. It just makes me hope that I won't regret putting effort into caring.
For what it's worth, I never saw you as an outsider. I always saw you as a great contributor. We are what we make ourselves in this place. If you think of yourself as an outsider, you'll begin to act like one. We'll never hold it against anyone who cares enough to get involved and treat this place like their own. To the contrary, that's exactly what will make this place what it's supposed to be.
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:41 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosstbyte View Post
This is perhaps an odd comment, but I don't understand the point of public self-flagellation and/or apologies when most of the people here haven't the slightest clue what the fuck happened. It doesn't help us understand or appreciate the situation any better or understand why what happened has made the community any better or worse. I guess if it's a feel good exercise, good for you? But, honestly, if we're not going to talk about what happened and why it happened so everyone can learn from the situation, I don't know why we're talking about it at all.
I must drink the same koolaid as you, because I agree wholeheartedly. If you aren't going to apologize for your specific action but rather apologize generically for your "behavior", then it hardly seems an apology at all. Nobody learns a lesson but you, and that seems a terrible waste of a lesson. I understand that it might be more embarrassing to speak directly about what you did, but it gives EVERYONE a chance to avoid making the mis-step by vicariously living your description of the issue.

I don't have any clue now what happened or didn't happen, only that Will is back and sorry and Cyn is still here and sorry .. for something. I'm glad for that, but I wish there were more to it.
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:45 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosstbyte View Post
This is perhaps an odd comment, but I don't understand the point of public self-flagellation and/or apologies when most of the people here haven't the slightest clue what the fuck happened. It doesn't help us understand or appreciate the situation any better or understand why what happened has made the community any better or worse. I guess if it's a feel good exercise, good for you? But, honestly, if we're not going to talk about what happened and why it happened so everyone can learn from the situation, I don't know why we're talking about it at all.

There are some tantalizing hints of what we might be talking about (esp. re: punk and shesus's posts) but without a better scope, it's kind of empty.
I saw everything up close and personal, and I agree, up to a point. Sometimes these kinds of threads are an internet version of lancing a boil. It ain't pretty and it kinda hurts, but in the long run it's the healthy thing to do.
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:46 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Frost and Jinn, I'll clarify. I posted something about how the use of nuclear weapons on Japan by the US was wrong, and Jorgelito shot back, and we both got under each other's skins, but I started it. In addition, when I was asked to apologize by Cynthetiq, I intentionally apologized for something else. It was just me challenging authority and it wasn't appropriate. In addition, I've walked right up the the line before in challenging authority.
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:58 AM   #28 (permalink)
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And you'd done that...once? Why were you banned the second time after your 3-day break?
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Old 07-22-2008, 11:00 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Look here's the deal. Will fucked up. And Cyn fucked up. They apologized for it. There isn't some long explanation. they just wanted to make sure the membership understood they were trying to become better in their actions.
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Old 07-22-2008, 11:01 AM   #30 (permalink)
change is hard.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willravel View Post
Frost and Jinn, I'll clarify. I posted something about how the use of nuclear weapons on Japan by the US was wrong, and Jorgelito shot back, and we both got under each other's skins, but I started it. In addition, when I was asked to apologize by Cynthetiq, I intentionally apologized for something else. It was just me challenging authority and it wasn't appropriate. In addition, I've walked right up the the line before in challenging authority.
Thanks for the clarification.

And for the record, my post wasn't really searching for a reply; although I appreciated them. It's how I've felt about TFP for a long time. As I grew up more, I became more comfortable with myself, and how I approached the site evolved. Either way, even if I was being a whiner, the fact that I have an opinion about something that sounds polar doesn't really mean it dictates my actions; I don't really think I play the part of an outsider, nor do I feel like I play any part at all. Just do what I can. I still love it here. I'm just aware of what I love.
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Old 07-22-2008, 11:04 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by guccilvr View Post
Look here's the deal. Will fucked up. And Cyn fucked up. They apologized for it. There isn't some long explanation. they just wanted to make sure the membership understood they were trying to become better in their actions.
I honestly don't care. If they decided to publicly apologize, more power to them. That's more than I would have done in this situation. I just never understood these forum wide letters (we've had a few before).
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Old 07-22-2008, 11:06 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punkmusicfan21 View Post
Thanks for the clarification.

And for the record, my post wasn't really searching for a reply; although I appreciated them. It's how I've felt about TFP for a long time. As I grew up more, I became more comfortable with myself, and how I approached the site evolved. Either way, even if I was being a whiner, the fact that I have an opinion about something that sounds polar doesn't really mean it dictates my actions; I don't really think I play the part of an outsider, nor do I feel like I play any part at all. Just do what I can. I still love it here. I'm just aware of what I love.

Well, you love the Packers. I mean, come on....we should give you an emo tag for that alone.
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Old 07-22-2008, 11:07 AM   #33 (permalink)
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good idea JJ. I think instead of the tilted awards I'll start handing out emo badges :P
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Old 07-22-2008, 11:09 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganSnake View Post
I honestly don't care. If they decided to publicly apologize, more power to them. That's more than I would have done in this situation. I just never understood these forum wide letters (we've had a few before).
And unless there's some announcement coming from the staff, you won't see them again. This is to apologize for a visible mistake, plain and simple. It may not matter to you, but there are other people in the community besides you.

If you need further clarification, read the text by my avatar, and read my sig.
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Old 07-22-2008, 11:57 AM   #35 (permalink)
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don't unedit me.

I didn't un-edit you. The picture didn't come back did it?
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Last edited by LoganSnake; 07-22-2008 at 12:52 PM..
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:26 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guccilvr View Post
Look here's the deal. Will fucked up. And Cyn fucked up. They apologized for it. There isn't some long explanation. they just wanted to make sure the membership understood they were trying to become better in their actions.
Doesn't mean I have to appreciate vague apologies, which are next to useless in my book. If Cyn wanted to apologize to Will, he could've done it with a PM - Will would know what it was an apology for. If Will wanted to apologize to Cyn, he could've done it in PMs - Cyn would know what it was an apology for.

If, however, the intent of either of them was to apologize to us, the TFP plebeians, as it were, it'd be better served by letting us know what specifically they're apologizing for. So far as I can see, there's nothing visible on TFP that needed a board-wide apology. The aforementioned "flame" and banning are long gone.
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:30 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Well it isn't directed at you and doesn't involve you so why do you need to care about it at all?
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:30 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Jinn,

You're right. And soon this thread will fade into the distance as we move forward. They apologized. Some people want to know why, some people don't care why, and others just don't even bother to read this thread.

In other words, in the broader scheme of things, it really isn't that important. Treat it like an in-joke. Not everyone understands, but that doesn't mean it has to be private.
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:35 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganSnake View Post
What the hell was that about?
I understand why you edited it out, but goddamn if that picture wasn't amazing, Logan.

Edit: Well that's sad, because it was just delightful and perfectly placed.

Last edited by Frosstbyte; 07-22-2008 at 12:39 PM..
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:35 PM   #40 (permalink)
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I didn't edit it out. guccilvr did. Why? I'm still waiting for his answer.
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