flat5

Why is this a prosecutable case?
Is conspiracy this broad a legal term. (well YES, duh)
Should it be?
Any urine test that does not test for DNA is questionable.
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BBC NEWS | Americas | Fake penis drug test pair guilty

The makers of a prosthetic penis to help men cheat on drugs tests have pleaded guilty to two charges of conspiracy in a US federal court.

The two men, George Wills and Robert Catalano, had been selling the device - known as the Whizzinator - over the internet for three years.

The device was sold with a heating element and fake urine to help people test negative for illegal substances.

They could face up to eight years in prison and a $500,000 (£334,000) fine.

The men ran an internet company known as Puck Technology, which between 2005 and 2008 sold the Whizzinator and a similar device, known as Number One.

"The Whizzinator is the ultimate solution for a drug testing device," says a statement on the website of the California-based company, which calls itself the "undisputed leader in synthetic urine."

"The prosthetic penis is very realistic and concealing is simple, while our quality production and materials assures you that the Whizzinator will let it flow again and again, anytime, anywhere you need it!"

Mr Wills and Mr Catalano appeared before a federal court in Pittsburgh, and are scheduled to be sentenced in February.
Story from BBC NEWS:
BBC NEWS | Americas | Fake penis drug test pair guilty

Published: 2008/11/25 12:40:26 GMT
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Here is a link to the site that sells the product.
The Whizzinator, Number 1 & Yellow River Products - Puck Technology

genuinegirly

Hmmm. Rather than punishing the folks who use it, why not just go after the company. Stupid.

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QuasiMondo

Because going after the folks who use it is like going after the junkies while looking the other way at the drug dealers selling on the corner.

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genuinegirly

While I appreciate the attempt to explain, QuasiMondo, I don't seem to have the same perspective on the drug trade as you do: Legalize the damn things and they'll start to lose their appeal. Punish people who commit crimes and disrupt the peace of society. What a person chooses to do in their private lives is their own concern. /end threadjack

The company made a mistake by explicitly explaining the intended use of their product rather than allowing the news to spread by word of mouth.

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"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

Church

I'm pretty sure this is the most awkward thread title I've ever seen lol

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troit

So the alternative is to do what a friend of mine did 10 years ago - put someone elses urine in a microwave and then place said urine between two pairs of boxer briefs - and almost frying off his hot dog....

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QuasiMondo

Based on how alcohol is marketed, I seriously doubt they'd lose their appeal if they were legalized.

I don't know if you're talking about marijuana specifically or all drugs in general, but outside of marijuana, I can't think of a single illegal drug that doesn't contribute to the commission of crimes that disturb the peace of society, especially when many of these crimes committed by addicts are done to get enough money to support their habit.

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Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer.

-From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

Ayashe

Of course my opinion would be that the alternative would be to remain drug free, but that is just my take on it. It is pretty hard to get the perfect temperature on a fake drug test, almost impossible really. Even under normal circumstances the urine can cool rather quickly, we tell people not to dawdle in the restroom. We have the no-sink, blue-water restroom so no attendant would ever be in the room to monitor collection. We don't really care what you do, how you do it, we are only there to sign the chain of custody paperwork and.. read the temperature off the side of the cup. What will they think of next...

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skizziks

I dont see how the makers of the product are guilty. Just because they made it doesnt mean it has to be used. The only use for a handgun is to kill humans. Handguns are legal, killing humans isn´t. To me its the same thing. Or, what about RAdar Detectors and Jammers. Does this mean the makers of Radar Detectors should also be prosecuted?
-----Added 25/11/2008 at 06 : 22 : 42-----
mmm, i love fried hot dogs. oh wait, you meant...nevermind.

inBOIL

I think an analogy can be drawn with copyright violation. When VCRs were first introduced, their sale was challenged in court on the grounds that they led to copyright violations. The court (U.S. Supreme Court? I can't remember) ruled that they were legal because they had significant non-infringing functions. Can/should a similar standard be applied here? Does the Whizzinator have a significant legal use?

I'm not sold on the idea of these being legal if their only use is in breaking the law. Then again, I'm opposed to those laws in the first place, so my opposition is half-hearted.

Handguns are useful in preventing crime, as well as killing pests. And killing humans isn't always illegal (self-defense)

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Mamon003

Whizzinator is the ultimate solution for a drug testing device," says a statement on the website of the California-based company, which calls itself the "undisputed leader in synthetic urine.The prosthetic penis is very realistic and concealing is simple, while our quality production and materials assures you that the Whizzinator will let it flow again and again, anytime, anywhere you need it.

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Merlocke

Now see if they had made it out to be a humorous water pistol akin to a comedian's rubber chicken perhaps they might've gotten away with a word of mouth drug user campaign... just the wrong marketing is all.

Don't they sell us poisonous or addictive materials all day long that have been approved by the FDA, but don't really help human health? AKA Sugar, MSG, etc.

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stevie667

I was reading a thread about pirates on another forum at the same time as this one, had a couple of very confused moments flitting between the two!

I believe this case could set a very dangerous trend in how people who sell paraphenalia are treated under the law.

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MSD

Just another unfortunate consequence of legislating morality. Make an example of a few people and hope the rest comply. As a bonus, busting people for non-violent drug offenses is a great way to distract the general population from the fact that they're not really doing anything to protect us from actual crime

Zodijackyl

No surprise that this is coming from Pittsburgh, all sorts of ridiculous of ridiculous abominations labeled as justice from come from there thanks to Mary Beth Buchanan. One of the other notable cases similar to this is the persecution of Tommy Chong for his financial support of his son's legitimate and legal glass pipe business.

The case should not be prosecutable, but abuse of political/judicial leverage makes things like this possible.

The actual effect of this on anything that could be reasonably categorized as "serious drug problems" is negligible. This isn't interfering with the steady supply of drugs, and it isn't reducing the demand at all, all it is doing is making a public example of a few individuals by stretching a legal term nearly to the point where they can prosecute anyone they want for whatever they want.

flat5

Alot of posts in this thread are concerned with drugs but that is not what they were charged with.

"The makers of a prosthetic penis to help men cheat on drugs tests have pleaded guilty to two charges of conspiracy in a US federal court."

I thought this was too broad a def. of conspiracy.

asaris

Conspiracy is not, in itself, a crime. The crime of 'conspiracy' is also always a conspiracy to commit some other illegal act.

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MSD

They were charged with conspiracy to commit fraud and distribution of drug paraphernalia. These charges are the consequence of drug laws. It isn't possible to dispute that they sold a device intended to defraud drug testers, and under the federal definition of paralhernalia as "whatever we say it is," this discussion pretty much had to end up being about drug laws since we're not a bunch of lawyers.

flat5

ok, I understand.

"Conspiracy is not, in itself, a crime. The crime of 'conspiracy' is also always a conspiracy to commit some other illegal act."

n0nsensical

Pathetic. Not that any line of bullshit coming out of our government re: drugs would surprise me.

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"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." --Abraham Lincoln

wolf

Arrest rapists, murderers and robbers. Leave the druggies alone.

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