Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > Chatter > General Discussion


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-19-2010, 03:03 PM   #1 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
At work today...

....the Customer Services Manager (who is either mad, or "zany" or somewhere in between) had a meeting with her team. I used to be sheltered from this shit but since my company got bought out my desk moved to the open plan office (Im not moaning about that, a lot of people got laid off and I do get that moving desk and having to work in Birmingham (150 miles away) 3 days a week isnt a hardship compared to losing your job.

But anyway, half way though the meeting they all (the customer service people) starting shouting out random words in turn as some kind of "team building" thing, and the manager shouted out "nigger"

In the whole site there is one person of mixed race (white mum and black dad)...but that doesnt seem to me to be the point. I guess I do understand that on the one hand the n word is socially a lot more unacceptable than other racial slurs (like dago, or mick, or wop or paki or yid or whatever) and that maybe isnt logical. But I was also quite shocked to hear someone yelling that word across the office.

If I did it I'd expect to lose my job. But I guess I wont complain officially about it -I mean Im not black so I guess it doesnt effect me personally and the one person who is mixed race is in another building and wasnt there at the time...

Maybe Im over reacting.

Or maybe the fact I wont take up a complaint with HR is kind of the same reason there is are no black or Asian people working at the company (in the last few years there have been 6 or 8 black guys/girls working there but none stayed)... Ive never noticed overt racism but then again perhaps I dont notice it cos it isnt against me.

I really feel like I ought to take it up with HR or whatever, but I know I wont.
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 02-19-2010, 03:14 PM   #2 (permalink)
Functionally Appropriate
 
fresnelly's Avatar
 
Location: Toronto
And the room didn't suddenly plunge into a shocked silence?

Wild.
__________________
Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life
fresnelly is offline  
Old 02-19-2010, 03:52 PM   #3 (permalink)
We work alone
 
LoganSnake's Avatar
 
Location: Cake Town
Quote:
Originally Posted by fresnelly View Post
And the room didn't suddenly plunge into a shocked silence?

Wild.
He doesn't live in the States. I seriously doubt the word would have as much impact anywhere in the world as it would have here.

Hell, I don't know what dago, mick, wop, paki or yid mean. If somebody would've yelled them out in a meeting, I wouldn't even bat an eye.
__________________
Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques
LoganSnake is offline  
Old 02-19-2010, 04:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
Addict
 
Pearl Trade's Avatar
 
Location: Houston, Texas
It's a little upsetting I guess, but doesn't bother me a whole lot. He probably justified yelling it by seeing that there wasn't any black people in the room. You could always make an anonymous complaint. It's like one of the member's here signature say's: "First they came for the Jews and I didn't do anything...Then they came for me and there was no one to stand up for me."
__________________
Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!
Pearl Trade is offline  
Old 02-19-2010, 04:08 PM   #5 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganSnake View Post
He doesn't live in the States. I seriously doubt the word would have as much impact anywhere in the world as it would have here.

Hell, I don't know what dago, mick, wop, paki or yid mean. If somebody would've yelled them out in a meeting, I wouldn't even bat an eye.
They are all ethnic slurs

Dago is used against Spanish or Italians
Mick against Irish
Wop against Italians
Paki against Asians (mostly Pakistani's)
Yid against jews
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 02-19-2010, 04:53 PM   #6 (permalink)
MSD
The sky calls to us ...
 
MSD's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: CT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous View Post
Or maybe the fact I wont take up a complaint with HR is kind of the same reason there is are no black or Asian people working at the company (in the last few years there have been 6 or 8 black guys/girls working there but none stayed)... Ive never noticed overt racism but then again perhaps I dont notice it cos it isnt against me.
I think you probably hit the nail on the head with that last point. I'm pretty sure that if someone had shouted "Kike!" that you would now be the star of a viral video with less-intelligent-than-average comments on Youtube, and even those of us who don't particularly approve of violence would be rooting for you.

A few weeks ago at the MLK symposium at work, one of our professors asked the audience what we thought of various groups working together, and my response was that everyone who is the target of discrimination is best off standing shoulder-to-shoulder and declaring with a united voice that intolerance in any form is unacceptable. The intolerance in the UK is different from what we see in the US, but it's no less real and no more acceptable. If you think you can bring it up to HR without fear of retribution or alienation, do it. If not, I hope you can at least be a positive influence on your coworkers.
MSD is offline  
Old 02-20-2010, 08:18 AM   #7 (permalink)
Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSD View Post
If you think you can bring it up to HR without fear of retribution or alienation, do it. If not, I hope you can at least be a positive influence on your coworkers.
Unfortunately, there shouldn't be any fear in calling out ignorance and disrespect in any form.

What would concern me is working for a company where that type of attitude is prevalent and worse, not addressed.

And it is probably a good thing that no one had a cell phone recording this and posting it on You Tube. Would be something if the company suffered because of it and those who stayed silent, ended up losing their jobs.
percy is offline  
Old 02-20-2010, 08:27 AM   #8 (permalink)
Cheers
 
Shell's Avatar
 
Location: Eastcoast USA
If you were fired for blowing the whistle
that would another legal violation against the company.
__________________
..."Say what you think. Those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind" ~ Dr. Seuss
Shell is offline  
Old 02-20-2010, 04:53 PM   #9 (permalink)
MSD
The sky calls to us ...
 
MSD's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: CT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shell View Post
If you were fired for blowing the whistle
that would another legal violation against the company.
This site specializing in UK employment law outlines protected disclosures as follows:
Quote:
Qualifying Disclosures

Certain kinds of disclosures qualify for protection ("qualifying disclosures"). Qualifying disclosures are disclosures of information which the worker reasonably believes tend to show one or more of the following matters is either happening now, took place in the past, or is likely to happen in the future :

a criminal offence;
the breach of a legal obligation;
a miscarriage of justice;
a danger to the health or safety of any individual;
damage to the environment; or
deliberate covering up of information tending to show any of the above five matters.
It should be noted that in making a disclosure the worker must have reasonable belief that the information disclosed tends to show one or more of the offences or breaches listed above ('a relevant failure'). The belief need not be correct - it might be discovered subsequently that the worker was in fact wrong - but the worker must show that he held the belief, and that it was a reasonable belief in the circumstances at the time of disclosure.

Protection under the provisions applies even if the qualifying disclosure concerns a relevant failure which took place overseas, or where the law applying to the relevant failure was not that of the United Kingdom.
My understanding is that UK law requires that employers maintain a non-threatening work environment. therefore SF's workplace breached their legal obligation by not reprimanding the employee who used a racial slur. However, in reality I've heard numerous stories in the US of employers who circumvent whistleblower laws and find other reasons to get rid of employees who cause problems for them. I'm pretty sure that this is a universal phenomenon.
MSD is offline  
Old 02-20-2010, 07:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
Upright
 
I remember a kid in middle school who was shouting nigger in the locker rooms. I asked him what the fuck he was doing and he responded with, "Why, what does it mean?"

Pretty lucky that we lived in a town that had 100 black people max.
Bartender123 is offline  
Old 02-23-2010, 08:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
Upright
 
Location: Up north
I don't know ... but as Dante said in "The Devine Comedy"
THE HOTTEST PLACES IN HELL ARE RESERVED FOR THOSE WHO, IN TIMES OF GREATEST MORAL CRISIS, MAINTAIN THEIR NEUTRALITY.

You can always question the manager ... why did you say that? Not every offensive action requires an equal reaction ... but your chafing about this so .. ask, simply ask.
HannaH13 is offline  
Old 02-23-2010, 10:01 PM   #12 (permalink)
Getting it.
 
Charlatan's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
I would have raised the issue with the manager after the event over a private chat. That sort of behaviour is unacceptable.
__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke
Charlatan is offline  
Old 02-24-2010, 04:11 PM   #13 (permalink)
Extreme moderation
 
Toaster126's Avatar
 
Location: Kansas City, yo.
What was the reaction of the other people in the room?

I'm surprised that a guy that talks so tough didn't find the words to speak up when he felt a wrong was going on.
__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)
Toaster126 is offline  
Old 02-24-2010, 04:20 PM   #14 (permalink)
Alien Anthropologist
 
hunnychile's Avatar
 
Location: Between Boredom and Nirvana
This is serious stuff esp. in the States, where using the "n word" is totally unacceptable. I've worked at large companies that did training seminars to make sure everyone learned to never use any words or nicknames that can hurt any other person on their team. Everyone on the job (and elsewhere IMHO) should remember that we are all created equal and deserve equal respect.

Words can be terribly painful. I can't believe a manager/meeting leader or whatever would say something such as that in a gathering you all were involved with. This is considered slander and illegal or a reason for a legal action, in many places.

It must not be tolerated. Nicknames included!
__________________
"I need compassion, understanding and chocolate." - NJB
hunnychile is offline  
Old 02-24-2010, 07:02 PM   #15 (permalink)
sufferable
 
girldetective's Avatar
 
i find this alarming.
Im with MSD on this.

You know that if you dont address it
it will bother you forever.
Its one of those awful things.

Im sorry.
__________________
As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata
girldetective is offline  
Old 02-25-2010, 11:08 AM   #16 (permalink)
 
Merlocke's Avatar
 
Location: Canada
With Apologies to Jesse Jackson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
__________________
-=[ Merlocke ]=-
Merlocke is offline  
Old 02-25-2010, 11:42 AM   #17 (permalink)
Knight of the Old Republic
 
Lasereth's Avatar
 
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
You would be insta-fired at my job for ever saying that in front of someone who reported it. It's definitely a no-no.
__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert
Lasereth is offline  
Old 02-25-2010, 11:49 AM   #18 (permalink)
Upright
 
Seeker72's Avatar
 
Location: USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasereth View Post
You would be insta-fired at my job for ever saying that in front of someone who reported it. It's definitely a no-no.
Same here, we have ethics classes 2 times a year and have to sign off that we completed them and accept the ramifications if we cross the line.
Seeker72 is offline  
Old 03-01-2010, 08:51 PM   #19 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
Anecdotally, I've been led to understand that 'race issues' are very different in GB than here in the US. Here, I'm pretty damn sure that manager would be fired by now. OTOH, the racism that exists is not discussed at all, whereas in the UK y'all seem more open about it. Airing the dirty laundry and all that.
robot_parade is offline  
Old 03-01-2010, 09:04 PM   #20 (permalink)
Insane
 
Ice|Burn's Avatar
 
Location: California
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganSnake View Post
He doesn't live in the States. I seriously doubt the word would have as much impact anywhere in the world as it would have here.
Exactly!

Racism is too pervasive in the US still. I mean cripes, a good portion of people still think our current president is a muslim. I realize that racism will always be a part of society. It's just too bad that after all this time we haven't learned to look past someone's skin. Maybe I was just brought up differently...

I do know that if I had made a comment like this manager in question I'd be fired (sacked) so fast my head would spin. This is one of those comments you just don't make in a setting such as a meeting... There's a time and a place... this was neither.
__________________
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -Stephen F. Roberts

IF PWNED > OWNED and PWNED=PWNAGE and OWN<PWN but PWN<PWNED and OWNAGE>OWN then what does OWNAGE+PWN equal?
Ice|Burn is offline  
Old 03-02-2010, 06:38 PM   #21 (permalink)
MSD
The sky calls to us ...
 
MSD's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: CT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice|Burn View Post
Exactly!

Racism is too pervasive in the US still. I mean cripes, a good portion of people still think our current president is a muslim.
The problem isn't that they think he's a muslim, but that they think there's something wrong with that.
MSD is offline  
Old 03-02-2010, 07:20 PM   #22 (permalink)
Insane
 
Ice|Burn's Avatar
 
Location: California
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSD View Post
The problem isn't that they think he's a muslim, but that they think there's something wrong with that.

You're right. I'm in no way a religious person (see sig for details) but it kind makes me angry and feel sad for those that say that all muslims are terrorists and hate america. Clearly they aren't students of history and read or even witnessed some of the greatest atrocities committed in the name of christianity.
__________________
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -Stephen F. Roberts

IF PWNED > OWNED and PWNED=PWNAGE and OWN<PWN but PWN<PWNED and OWNAGE>OWN then what does OWNAGE+PWN equal?
Ice|Burn is offline  
 

Tags
today, work

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:25 AM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73