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Old 07-08-2003, 01:13 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Commiting the perfect murder

Yesterday I had a very good laugh in the middle of a video store inside wal-mart. This guy was flirting with a worker there. He was talking about cop shows and such crap and said, "I watch these shows so much I could commit a murder and get away with it." It cracked me up that he thought he could do it, and cracked me up even more that he'd say he could commit a prefect muder to someone he was hitting on..

I've thought about this before but after thinking about it last night I'd like to see everyone else's thoughts.

Would you say something like that to a potential date?

Do you think these shows give to much information?

And of course, Could you commit a perfect murder, and how
would you do it? You don't have to tell how if you actually plan to do it one day

Although it would take away the whole point out of the murder, the only way I see to commit a perfect murder is to kill a random person by sniping or without having to interact with them. Just to clarify, perfect means not getting caught, I don't mean absoutely perfect. Any murder with motive is sure enough to get you arrested with the tinyest bit of evidence.

I think the cop shows do give some people capable of commiting a crime ideas about how to do some things but it's not information they couldn't have obtained elsewhere.
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Old 07-08-2003, 02:07 AM   #2 (permalink)
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that's a stupid thing to say to a potential date, no question.

They give alot of info, sure. Just to enhance the realism. But it's my firm belief that nobody can create a perfect murder unless they're both :

a) seriously messed up
b) a professional forensic specialist.

those seem most likely to have a shot at doing this act, since they know what to pay attention to.

as for what you're describing, sure that's an assassination, nowhere near perfect, but pretty easy to pull of with the right weapon, the necessary skill and alot of patience.
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Old 07-08-2003, 04:39 AM   #3 (permalink)
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You'd find, that if you're an expert in the field and you watch the show, a lot of the stuff would be a little convoluted and maybe simplified to explain it easier to there particular demographic. So i think the info would not be precise to the degree that you could be educated or proficient in the field from watching the show.

Also, i don't think i could ever kill someone, so no, i couldn't commit the perfect murder.
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Old 07-08-2003, 06:41 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I do watch some of those shows.

Yes, everyone here could commit the perfect murder. We'd just have no reason to do it. You are correct, cybermike, randomly shooting someone with a pre-planned escape path is about as foolproof as you can get.

Notice the word "random." If your wife mysteriously falls off a bridge or some other "perfect" scenario you have, the detectives will still put you at the top of their list. Or some guy you had a beef with drives his car into a wall, etc. They will find out who wanted this person dead. And you are not smarter than the detectives are, in the sense that you cannot tell a lie they cannot pick up, and you will fall into patterns they will see.

I don't think those television shows help people commit the perfect murder in any way. Alot of the plots involve people with access to certain drugs, or people who own concrete businesses. And the average murder is a crime of the moment, a crime commited with a kitchen knife.
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Old 07-08-2003, 06:48 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Alfred Hitchcock presented the best idea for a perfect murder with "Strangers On a Train." In that movie, two complete strangers sit next to each other on a commuter train, and realize through their discussions that they each have someone in their lives they would like killed. One stranger proposes that they kill each other's nemesis; two murders with no motives, and hence unsolvable. I won't give away any more than that, but it's a damn fine movie.

The main thing that chaps my ass about the forensics shows is the amount of unrelated crap at each murder scene that draws their attention so strangely. For example, my mother-in-law has a Bichon Friese coffee mug atop one of the dressers in her bedroom. I can just picture the CSI goofs prowling around that bedroom if (God forbid) a crime should ever be committed there and encountering that mug. The TV dialog would go something like this:

"Hey, did you see this mug?"

"Yeah, it's a Bison Friese mug. So what?"

"Well, the deceased owned a poodle, and there are no family photos anywhere in the house of a Bichon Friese. Since this mug is displayed openly like this, it must be of great sentimental value. And since no one else in the family owns a dog like this, we can conclude that she must have had a secret boyfriend who owned a Bichon Friese. Since her phone records don't indicate a lover, we must set up round-the-clock surveillance at the funeral home, because I'll bet HE'S the killer."

And the damn TV show would head off in that direction. However, the true story behind the Bichon Friese mug is as follows: my wife and I wanted to adopt a tiny yip-yap dog several years ago, but we were unsure of the breed. For awhile, we were convinced we wanted a Bichon Friese, and we bought a Bichon Friese coffee mug at a gift shop while visiting her mother once. While packing to return home, we discovered that the mug might break, so we left it on the dresser. It remained there for years, and we eventually got poodles instead of a Bichon Friese. My mother-in-law never really knew why the mug was there, so she never threw it out.

Nothing sinister. Nothing evidentiary. Just a stupid damn mug.

I know that my own house is full of useless crap like that and it would totally confuse these TV CSI goofbags. I've just got to assume that everybody's house is like that, too.
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Old 07-08-2003, 06:49 AM   #6 (permalink)
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That guy's not watching the right shows....









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Old 07-08-2003, 07:02 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Detective shows don't give anything important away. If they helped criminals, they would be hard pressed by law enforcement to cut it out. But, they do show one thing criminals should be aware of... detectives aren't stupid and usually get their man.

As for the perfect murder, I'd like to think (in a weird sort of way) that it's already been commited. Chance has it, that some extremely anal person took enough time and care and got away with something (be it murder or otherwise). Also, there's the chance that some normal guy commited a crime and by dumb luck, it happened to be the perfect crime.
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Old 07-08-2003, 07:03 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by gov135
I do watch some of those shows.

Yes, everyone here could commit the perfect murder. We'd just have no reason to do it. You are correct, cybermike, randomly shooting someone with a pre-planned escape path is about as foolproof as you can get.

Notice the word "random." If your wife mysteriously falls off a bridge or some other "perfect" scenario you have, the detectives will still put you at the top of their list. Or some guy you had a beef with drives his car into a wall, etc. They will find out who wanted this person dead. And you are not smarter than the detectives are, in the sense that you cannot tell a lie they cannot pick up, and you will fall into patterns they will see.

I don't think those television shows help people commit the perfect murder in any way. Alot of the plots involve people with access to certain drugs, or people who own concrete businesses. And the average murder is a crime of the moment, a crime commited with a kitchen knife.

First and foremost... the TV shows are heavily edited... there's lots there that hits the cutting room floor that you don't see, i.e. the mundane boring crap that isn't very dramatic but still tedious and meticulous.

Random... the DC Snipers were random... they were still caught... not perfect... they were better than others... but the human factor still weighs in. Even many of the serial murders make small mistakes, Joel Rifkin, Jeffrey Dahmer, Richard Ramierez, John Wayne Gacy... so far the only one that got away with it is Jack the Ripper...
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Old 07-08-2003, 07:13 AM   #9 (permalink)
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There is no perfect murder. Either you're weighed down with guilt the rest of your life, or you're sociopathic enough to do it again and again until you get caught. Karma's a bitch.
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Old 07-08-2003, 07:50 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Old 07-08-2003, 08:09 AM   #11 (permalink)
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...or kill anyone you tell.
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Old 07-08-2003, 09:00 AM   #12 (permalink)
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....or kill yourself.
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Old 07-08-2003, 09:16 AM   #13 (permalink)
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From a more practical point of view, and please, don't freak out, it's something that I know a bit about due to what I study, you'd certainly have to:

a) commit the actual murder in a place where organic left overs, so to speak, are not out of ordinary. I'm talking forests, areas where there is not roads and dwellings. The person shouldn't be able to pu up a struggle, at least in a manner that would leave ANY organic (eg. skin tissue, blood) marks on objects that come from your surrounding: car, clothes, etc. I guess at this point that drugs might be involved.

b) getting rid of the body is the second thing, since most of the investigators come to conclusion about murderers based on the damage that they found on the body. How to get rid of a body is something else completely, but the key is that nothing should be left.

c) finally, there is the connection problem. Fatc is, if you're somehow connected to that person, in any way possible, make it casual meetings on the street or something like that, you're 90% more likely to be caught. As someone said, randomizing the whole event is the key.

Having said that, I'd like to point out it's hard to do any research on the topic, because of the definition of "perfect murder", since it's, well, perfect, and we don’t know about it. We have no clue who did it, when and how, unless they admit to it themselfes. All of these guesses, therefore, are based on the view from the other side of the barricade, the investigators side, and therefore not completely accurate.

I also have to say that even writing about this stuff is eerie, but so is life most of the time. I wouldn't want anyone to even try these things out on someone and, anyway, the fact is that sooner or later, a murderer would break down or would continue to kill until he'd make a mistake, as someone pointed out. it's only a matter of time.

Last edited by Schwan; 07-08-2003 at 12:39 PM..
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Old 07-08-2003, 09:31 AM   #14 (permalink)
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From years of watching cop shows, I'd like to add:

Don't use a gun, ever. Bullets have this habit of being traced back to the gun that fired them. The problem with not using a gun though is range to target, the murder has to be at much closer range, and the danger there is the victim can take DNA samples off your body simply by raking their fingernails over your skin.

I think there's some truth in the 'forensic pathologist' angle. I'm sure, statistically, one or two of them have committed murder, and if they did, they are in the best position to get away with it (provided it was pre-meditated and planned).
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Old 07-08-2003, 10:33 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I read an article about a jewel thief on how he got away with stealing more than $70 million dollars in jewels.
Some advice that he said and some that i thought about: wear medical gloves under normal gloves (medical gloves to catch sweat, fingerprints, and any DNA; normal gloves to stop fingerprints as well)
Hairnet to capture possible hair being left (or shaved head)
New shoes that are 4 sizes too big so if you leave footprints they won't match your shoe size.
Kill with an object that can be destroyed (ie. a wooden knife that can be burned)
Leave fake clues
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Old 07-08-2003, 10:44 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Old 07-08-2003, 10:55 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Old 07-08-2003, 11:19 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Two more words

"Chandra Levy"
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Old 07-08-2003, 11:42 AM   #19 (permalink)
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/me writes down all these things for future reference....

an icicle would be a good weapon... afterthe murder it would just dissolve away...
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Old 07-08-2003, 12:00 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cynthetiq
... so far the only one that got away with it is Jack the Ripper...
Hold up a second. Don't forget about the Cleveland Torso Murderer. Not only was he never caught, but he was the first serial murderer in the states. Plus, he effectively ended the career of Elliot Ness, the untouchable himself.

Off topic, but two excellent books about Jack and the fellow from Cleveland are "From Hell" by Alan Moore and "Torso" by Brian Michael Bendis. Very educational, if you're into it.
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Old 07-08-2003, 12:37 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I read an article in today's paper about a Mexican city on the border with the US, where there's a serial killer loose for something like ten years. His body count is reported to be around 400, though it's not really clear if it's one man that's doing this, or perhaps a group of people. He only kills young women and they find the bodies in the desert, usually 10 at a time. They still haven't caught him, though lets face it: this is the Mexican police after all. Needles to say, people tend to think that the murderer is a member of the police force.
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Old 07-08-2003, 12:59 PM   #22 (permalink)
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oh... crap i forgot one who seems to have gotten away it..




OJ
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Old 07-08-2003, 01:12 PM   #23 (permalink)
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On the same subject as the icicle and the wooden knife, I heard this urban legend a looooooooong time ago and I've never heard it since, about a housewife who whacked her husband with a christmas ham, and then cooked it and fed it to the visiting detectives. I thought that was pretty neat.
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Old 07-08-2003, 01:18 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by crow_daw
On the same subject as the icicle and the wooden knife, I heard this urban legend a looooooooong time ago and I've never heard it since, about a housewife who whacked her husband with a christmas ham, and then cooked it and fed it to the visiting detectives. I thought that was pretty neat.
Yeah, that was either a Twilight Zone or an Outer Limits. Can't remember which.
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Old 07-08-2003, 03:43 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by crow_daw
On the same subject as the icicle and the wooden knife, I heard this urban legend a looooooooong time ago and I've never heard it since, about a housewife who whacked her husband with a christmas ham, and then cooked it and fed it to the visiting detectives. I thought that was pretty neat.
We read a short story where that happened in English a few years ago. I can't remember what it was called though.
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Old 07-08-2003, 04:00 PM   #26 (permalink)
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One good hard twist to the head to break the neck. Place one used body into local blast furnace. Enough heat in there to remove any traces.
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Old 07-09-2003, 12:03 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I watched a CSI episode a guy froze hamburger meat and used it as a bullet, then dumped the body in one of those places where they keep alot of bodies out on the ground to study the effects. It was interesting but he screwed it in many other ways
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Old 07-09-2003, 01:28 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Disposal of the body

Cannibal Corpse - Disposal of the body
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Old 07-09-2003, 11:09 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Contact poison on a toilet seat. He'll die hours later, and what normal cop is going to say, "Well we have a poisoning, let's check for a toilet ring on his ass."
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Old 07-09-2003, 12:15 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Troublebot
Yeah, that was either a Twilight Zone or an Outer Limits. Can't remember which.
And similar to "Fried Green Tomatoes," where the abusing husband was chopped up, barbecued, pulled, and served to the visiting light-footed detective from Georgia sent to investigate his disappearance.
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Old 07-09-2003, 12:27 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by crow_daw
On the same subject as the icicle and the wooden knife, I heard this urban legend a looooooooong time ago and I've never heard it since, about a housewife who whacked her husband with a christmas ham, and then cooked it and fed it to the visiting detectives. I thought that was pretty neat.
That was a story. Fictional story, that is. The title of the story is "Lamb To The Slaughter" and was written by Roald Dahl. The murder weapon was actually a leg of lamb.

From RoaldDahlFans.com:

Plot/Description

This is probably the most well–known of all Dahl's short stories, simply because (in my opinion) it's so simple. There isn't a single wasted word in it. It's gripping, shocking, and yet the story proceeds in such a rational manner that the reader's suspension of disbelief is never broken. We are with Mary Maloney from the first sentence of the story, and only at the end do we realize that we never really knew her at all.

Spoiler Warning!

Mary Maloney is a devoted wife and expectant mother. She waits happily each night for the arrival of her husband Patrick, home from work at the police station. On this particular night, though, she can tell something is wrong. In disbelief, she listens as Patrick tells her that he is leaving her for another woman. [Actually Dahl never really says this; the details are left up to the reader's imagination.] Dazed, she goes into the kitchen to prepare their supper and pulls a large frozen leg of lamb from the deep freeze. Still numb, she carries it into the living room and without warning bashes her husband over the head with it. As she looks at Patrick lying dead on the floor, she slowly begins to come back to her senses. Immediately she realizes the ramifications of what she has done. Not wanting her unborn child to suffer as a result of her crime, she begins planning her alibi. She places the leg of lamb in a pan in the oven and goes down to the corner grocery to get some food for "Patrick's dinner" (making sure the grocer sees her normal and cheerful state of mind). She returns home and screams when she finds Patrick lying on the floor. She calls the police and informs them that she found her husband lying dead on the floor. Within hours swarms of officers are searching the house and conducting an investigation. Mary's story of coming home from the grocer and finding him is corroborated as she had planned. While the police are searching fruitlessly into the night for the murder weapon, Mary offers them some lamb that she had prepared for dinner. They are happy to oblige. While they lounge in the kitchen and discuss the case (their mouths "sloppy" with meat), Mary Maloney sits in the living room and giggles softly to herself.
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Old 07-09-2003, 04:16 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Random... the DC Snipers were random... they were still caught... not perfect... they were better than others... but the human factor still weighs in. Even many of the serial murders make small mistakes, Joel Rifkin, Jeffrey Dahmer, Richard Ramierez, John Wayne Gacy... so far the only one that got away with it is Jack the Ripper...
Well, true, the DC Snipers were random in terms of their victim selection, but there were patterns in their behavior that (IIRC) led to their capture - usage of the same car each time, and they confined their killings to the same geographic area.

I'm not sure I agree with Jack the Ripper being the only one who got away with it...I mean, the only ones we generally hear about are the ones who were caught. I can't remember -- was the Zodiac killer ever captured? I don't think so.
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Old 07-09-2003, 09:36 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Ice knife. The cops will probably be able to figure out what the murder weapon was, but they'll never find it. Don't kill anyone you know. Pick someone out of the phonebook.
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Old 07-10-2003, 05:27 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Weren't the DC Snipers cought because they robbed a store? if they stopped at the first killing, or had a wider area of killing, over a long period of time. Also, The car everyone was looking for was a white van, I'm afraid a Blue Chevy Caprice looks nothing like a white van
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Old 07-10-2003, 05:34 AM   #35 (permalink)
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I'd use any of the methods used in Columbo.

Chances are Columbo wouldn't be assigned to the case, so I'd most probably get away with it. I especially like the Cigarette episode, where Columbo noticed that the cigarettes in the ashtray hadn't been smoked.

Man, Columbo is the BEST!!!
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Old 07-10-2003, 07:32 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by cybermike
Weren't the DC Snipers cought because they robbed a store? if they stopped at the first killing, or had a wider area of killing, over a long period of time. Also, The car everyone was looking for was a white van, I'm afraid a Blue Chevy Caprice looks nothing like a white van
The bullets in a stump that they used as a target when they lived in Washington (State, not DC) still could have led to them. If the police had identical scratch patterns on two bullets a few thousand miles away, and one could be traced to a house rental, the guy would be found eventually.
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Old 07-14-2003, 09:50 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Thing is.. you gotta remember .. what you look like.. will you stand out..

and that one dork in town will find the evidence on ya..

although i like dry ice.. sucks the oxygen in the room out..

or get a pill bottle and put a radioactive pellet in it and put under the bed.. several months later death..

wtf is gonna mess around with a radioactive pellet to find the killer lol

i have seen several molds that you pour water in the top freeze it and makes cool ice daggers.. you stab twist to break the blade off and leave.. they bleed.. ice melts with air in the ice.. ice has chance of entering blood stream.. heart stops..

remember.. you dont always need to inflect wounds.. a hard enough hit.. (dosent have to break ribs) can cause the heart to stop

any sharp object thrust into the heart ... well any trauma that stops the heart kills the person instantly.. brain activity still exists for a bit but its over...


you know when you think about it the human body is very frail.. wouldnt take much to spill the guts.. pop an artery.. (saw a dude die when a baseball hit him in the neck from a pitching machine.. ) ruptured his artery in the neck.. he died painfully..

dont kill anyone you know.. anything you wore .. burn it scatter the ashes.. any weapons.. take a trip to the ocean.. take a tour to see whales or dophins.. and toss them overboard... lakes they can dredge.. the ocean rift.. nah..

contact poison is nice.. but expensive.. and hard to get.. you can make your own.. but.. you get flagged trying to buy the stuff..

you know walmart sells napalm? called gel charcol starter.. hehe

forget the break lines.. rework the clutch in most new standard cars.. the hydraulic(spelling) clutch works off the break fluid too... hehe it goes out down the road.. and so do the breakes..

its easy to make cholorine gas.. put it in their air conditionar.. dead..

but my fave is cut the tendons on the ankle and chase them around with a hockey mask and a dull knife.. 8)

j/k

although i dont believe in the perfect murder (youll pay one day) its easy to think up of some ghoulish ends..
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Old 07-14-2003, 12:07 PM   #38 (permalink)
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the most important thing would be to destroy all forensic evidence which seems almost completely impossible

the point of a perfect murder is so no one knows, that might even include the person that is the murderer. think about if some one does successfully kill someone, to make it completely perfect not even the murderer would remember, now that is the perfect murder
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Old 07-14-2003, 12:46 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Location: Louisiana
the perfect murder.. is pushing a button and half way around the world some person fries to death without your knowledge.. lol..

"hey look i pushed this button about a billion times and nothing is still happening"

"uh bob.. some men in black suits wants to talk to you"
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It means only one thing, and everything: Cut. Once committed to fight, Cut. Everything else is secondary. Cut. That is your duty, your purpose, your hunger. There is no rule more important, no commitment that overrides that one. Cut. The lines are a portrayal of the dance. Cut from the void, not from bewilderment. Cut the enemy as quickly and directly as possible. Cut with certainty. Cut decisively, resoultely. Cut into his strength. Flow through the gaps in his guard. Cut him. Cut him down utterly. Don't allow him a breath. Crush him. Cut him without mercy to the depth of his spirit. It is the balance to life: death. It is the dance with death. It is the law a war wizard lives by, or he dies.
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Old 07-14-2003, 01:03 PM   #40 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: Chicago
Kind of off topic and back to the original post, this dude was trying to hit on a chick in a wal-mart. Hell, if he wanted to get lucky, all he had to say was, "I gots me tickets to Rassle-Mania."
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