Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > Chatter > General Discussion


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-21-2010, 02:33 PM   #1 (permalink)
Living in a Warmer Insanity
 
Tully Mars's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: Yucatan, Mexico
Right slams MOH Award

I was wondering how long and exactly how the religious right would find fault with Obama awarding the Medal of Honor to a living soldier

Quote:
While a divided nation last Tuesday finally rallied around one bright shining moment of patriotic glory -- President Obama's awarding of the Medal of Honor to Afghan hero Army Sgt. Salvatore Giunta -- a popular right-wing Christian commentator sharply split opinions even within his own camp. He blasted the award as "feminized" because it honors Giunta for saving his comrades rather than killing the enemy.

The Army's official citation details how Giunta "exposed himself to withering enemy fire" during a daring effort to engage the enemy and extract his wounded comrades from an ambush. But Bryan Fischer, a columnist for the American Family Association who has often provoked headlines and consternation with his commentaries, read the narrative as hardly the sort of thing American soldiers were once known for.

President Obama awards Medal of Honor to Army Sgt. Salvatore Giunta"When we think of heroism in battle, we used the think of our boys storming the beaches of Normandy under withering fire, climbing the cliffs of Pointe du Hoc while enemy soldiers fired straight down on them, and tossing grenades into pill boxes to take out gun emplacements," wrote Fischer, director of issue analysis for the AFA, a longtime lobby on the Christian right. "That kind of heroism has apparently become passé when it comes to awarding the Medal of Honor. We now award it only for preventing casualties, not for inflicting them."
Source

I always wonder when I read about a someone being awarded major medals of honor, seems to me that there's likely a lot of service men and women who earn them yet never are awarded. But to claim this man didn't earn it because he was saving lives of fellow soldiers rather then killing the emeny seems rather lame.

Thoughts?
__________________
I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club
Tully Mars is offline  
Old 11-21-2010, 02:36 PM   #2 (permalink)
Future Bureaucrat
 
KirStang's Avatar
 
Wow....really?
KirStang is offline  
Old 11-21-2010, 02:44 PM   #3 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: bedford, tx
Quote:
Bryan Fischer, a columnist for the American Family Association
is this the moron that has an issue with the reason for this recipient?
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."
dksuddeth is offline  
Old 11-21-2010, 02:55 PM   #4 (permalink)
Living in a Warmer Insanity
 
Tully Mars's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: Yucatan, Mexico
That's the man, I use the term "man" here ironically. Never served, doesn't have a clue as far as I'm concerned.

I hope a lot the right comes out and toasts him but I fear Rush et el will join in the ugliness.
__________________
I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club
Tully Mars is offline  
Old 11-21-2010, 02:58 PM   #5 (permalink)
Junkie
 
dogzilla's Avatar
 
Location: New York
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tully Mars View Post
I always wonder when I read about a someone being awarded major medals of honor, seems to me that there's likely a lot of service men and women who earn them yet never are awarded. But to claim this man didn't earn it because he was saving lives of fellow soldiers rather then killing the emeny seems rather lame.

Thoughts?
If his superiors thought he deserved the award, he deserves it. Saving the lives of your buddies is just as important as killing the enemy. Reading the Wikipedia article, he did manage to kill one enemy soldier.

Reading further, it looks like the Medal of Honor isn't just for combat operations either. Mary Edwards Walker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Prior to the American Civil War she earned her medical degree, married and started a medical practice. The practice didn't do well and she volunteered with the Union Army at the outbreak of the American Civil War and served as a female surgeon. She was captured by Confederate forces after crossing enemy lines to treat wounded civilians and arrested as a spy. She was sent as a prisoner of war to Richmond, Virginia until released in a prisoner exchange.
After the war she was approved for the United States military's highest decoration for bravery, the Medal of Honor, for her efforts during the war. She is the only woman to receive the medal and one of only eight civilians to receive it. Her medal was later rescinded based on an Army determination and then restored in 1977. After the war she was a writer and lecturer supporting the women's suffrage movement until her death in 1919.
The writer is just another whackjob looking for things to complain about.
dogzilla is offline  
Old 11-21-2010, 03:01 PM   #6 (permalink)
Living in a Warmer Insanity
 
Tully Mars's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: Yucatan, Mexico
Thanks Dogzilla, seems like something like this both right and left could come together and agree.
__________________
I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club
Tully Mars is offline  
Old 11-21-2010, 03:52 PM   #7 (permalink)
warrior bodhisattva
 
Baraka_Guru's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: East-central Canada
The guy writes for something called the American Family Association and is stating that it's more honourable and more courageous to kill someone than it is to save lives.

He then goes on to call the awarding the saving of lives as a "feminization" (and even makes the preposterous assumption that this is a bad thing).

The guy needs to check himself. He's undermined the very idea of family.
__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot
Baraka_Guru is offline  
Old 11-21-2010, 05:07 PM   #8 (permalink)
Addict
 
Shadowex3's Avatar
 
Location: Florida
I already hate myself for saying this but having read the official accounts of his actions I find them to be very brave and definitely worthy of respect... but the justification of giving him a Medal of Honor for this just doesn't work. If you award him the honor based on the entire ambush then his whole squad obviously acted impressively, but if you award him the honor based solely on his lone actions of running out to rescue the other soldier then it just doesn't remotely compare with the standard that seems to have been set for the Medal of Honor.

The problem is that either his entire unit deserves commendation or you have to narrow down the scope of what actions you're looking at so much that it becomes silly to award a Medal of Honor for it. I wouldn't have seen any problem with giving his entire unit the Distinguished Service Cross or something but it just seems wrong the way this is being justified.


Regardless of all the politics behind that though Mr. Fischer is very loudly announcing that he creates a vacuum to the entire world.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hectonkhyres
I'm imagining crazed dwarves doing profoundly weird things. Urist McNutcase has developed a compulsion to jam anything colored blue up his anus, or alternately other peoples anuses

Last edited by Shadowex3; 11-21-2010 at 05:10 PM..
Shadowex3 is offline  
Old 11-22-2010, 05:42 AM   #9 (permalink)
immoral minority
 
ASU2003's Avatar
 
Location: Back in Ohio
If they didn't find something to complain about, nobody would tune in. And they have to be more outrageous to get more advertisements and media promotion...
ASU2003 is offline  
Old 11-22-2010, 06:09 AM   #10 (permalink)
I Confess a Shiver
 
Plan9's Avatar
 
Hell, I'm surprised they're not checking his citizenship status.

"Damn Latinos are stealing all our medals!" - Rich White People
__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."
Plan9 is offline  
Old 11-22-2010, 06:23 AM   #11 (permalink)
Functionally Appropriate
 
fresnelly's Avatar
 
Location: Toronto
This would be high on the list of things I'm unqualified to offer an opinion on as it should be for him. What a dumbass.
__________________
Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life
fresnelly is offline  
Old 11-22-2010, 11:55 AM   #12 (permalink)
Yarp.
 
Dammitall's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru View Post
The guy needs to check himself. He's undermined the very idea of family.
...as does that entire organization on a regular basis... but I digress.

/threadjack
__________________
If one million people replaced a two mile car trip once a week with a bike ride, carbon dioxide emissions would be reduced by 50,000 tons per year. If one out of ten car commuters switched to a bike, carbon dioxide emissions would be reduced by 25.4 million tons per year. [2milechallenge.com]

Quote:
Originally Posted by roachboy View Post
it's better if you can ride without having to wonder if the guy in the car behind you is a sociopath, i find.
Dammitall is offline  
Old 11-22-2010, 06:56 PM   #13 (permalink)
Getting it.
 
Charlatan's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
Quote:
Originally Posted by fresnelly View Post
This would be high on the list of things I'm unqualified to offer an opinion on as it should be for him. What a dumbass.
+1
__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke
Charlatan is offline  
Old 11-22-2010, 08:13 PM   #14 (permalink)
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
 
Willravel's Avatar
 
I like that someone was given this award for saving lives instead of taking them. Clearly this young man is a hero by any reasonable metric. If the AFA has nothing to contribute, they should go about their business of collapsing due to their own incompetence and radicalization.
Willravel is offline  
Old 12-03-2010, 11:40 AM   #15 (permalink)
Still Free
 
Cimarron29414's Avatar
 
Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!
If I remember correctly, Sgt. Giunta shot the two men dragging off his comrade, killing one of them. Furthermore, the two men he "rescued" ended up dying of their wounds. So, this notion of taking/not taking lives is moot. He took a life and he didn't really save a life.

I agree with SecretMethod that this didn't seem to rise to the level of MOH status, but I wasn't there and don't know the true level of risk involved in the action. I'll trust those who nominated.

While I am not "the right", I don't view him as speaking for "the right". He speaks for himself, and he's a dick.
__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."
Cimarron29414 is offline  
Old 12-03-2010, 11:55 AM   #16 (permalink)
Crazy
 
remy1492's Avatar
 
Location: CA TX LU
I wouldn't say "THEY" or "THE right" or any plural association with people of conservative beliefs. Especially with a comment as strange and out there as this one.

Its ONE GUY. Yet posters use this to paint "THEY (conservatives/religious)" with the same brush.

This is akin to a wacko Liberal putting Jesus defamation art in say a National art gallery. ONE man, not indicative of a GROUP.

-thought this board was past that 3rd grade polarization and taking the media bait-
remy1492 is offline  
Old 12-05-2010, 12:37 PM   #17 (permalink)
Invisible
 
yournamehere's Avatar
 
Location: tentative, at best
A member of the christian religious right saying we need more death in war.
Now there's something to ponder. How Christ-like, huh?
__________________
If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors:
"If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too."
It won't hurt your fashion sense, either.
yournamehere is offline  
Old 12-05-2010, 04:39 PM   #18 (permalink)
comfortably numb...
 
uncle phil's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: upstate
ya know, we all talk about this slime in forums such as this, around the water cooler, etc. why don't we individually and/or collectively send him a copy of our comments so that maybe he might get the hint that he isn't traveling the moral high ground that he thinks he is?

just a thought...
__________________
"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
-----------------------------------------
"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
-----------------------------------------
never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.
uncle phil is offline  
Old 12-05-2010, 05:26 PM   #19 (permalink)
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
 
Willravel's Avatar
 
You mean Bryan Fischer? I doubt he cares. He's writing this crap for people who agree with him, not for people like us.
Willravel is offline  
 

Tags
awarded, giunta, medal of honor, slams

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:01 AM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360