Right slams MOH Award - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Tully Mars · 11-21-2010, 02:33 PM

I was wondering how long and exactly how the religious right would find fault with Obama awarding the Medal of Honor to a living soldier

Quote:

While a divided nation last Tuesday finally rallied around one bright shining moment of patriotic glory -- President Obama's awarding of the Medal of Honor to Afghan hero Army Sgt. Salvatore Giunta -- a popular right-wing Christian commentator sharply split opinions even within his own camp. He blasted the award as "feminized" because it honors Giunta for saving his comrades rather than killing the enemy.

The Army's official citation details how Giunta "exposed himself to withering enemy fire" during a daring effort to engage the enemy and extract his wounded comrades from an ambush. But Bryan Fischer, a columnist for the American Family Association who has often provoked headlines and consternation with his commentaries, read the narrative as hardly the sort of thing American soldiers were once known for.

President Obama awards Medal of Honor to Army Sgt. Salvatore Giunta"When we think of heroism in battle, we used the think of our boys storming the beaches of Normandy under withering fire, climbing the cliffs of Pointe du Hoc while enemy soldiers fired straight down on them, and tossing grenades into pill boxes to take out gun emplacements," wrote Fischer, director of issue analysis for the AFA, a longtime lobby on the Christian right. "That kind of heroism has apparently become passé when it comes to awarding the Medal of Honor. We now award it only for preventing casualties, not for inflicting them."

Source

I always wonder when I read about a someone being awarded major medals of honor, seems to me that there's likely a lot of service men and women who earn them yet never are awarded. But to claim this man didn't earn it because he was saving lives of fellow soldiers rather then killing the emeny seems rather lame.

Thoughts?

KirStang · 11-21-2010, 02:36 PM

Wow....really?

dksuddeth · 11-21-2010, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Bryan Fischer, a columnist for the American Family Association

is this the moron that has an issue with the reason for this recipient?

Tully Mars · 11-21-2010, 02:55 PM

That's the man, I use the term "man" here ironically. Never served, doesn't have a clue as far as I'm concerned.

I hope a lot the right comes out and toasts him but I fear Rush et el will join in the ugliness.

dogzilla · 11-21-2010, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

I always wonder when I read about a someone being awarded major medals of honor, seems to me that there's likely a lot of service men and women who earn them yet never are awarded. But to claim this man didn't earn it because he was saving lives of fellow soldiers rather then killing the emeny seems rather lame.

Thoughts?

If his superiors thought he deserved the award, he deserves it. Saving the lives of your buddies is just as important as killing the enemy. Reading the Wikipedia article, he did manage to kill one enemy soldier.

Reading further, it looks like the Medal of Honor isn't just for combat operations either. Mary Edwards Walker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

Prior to the American Civil War she earned her medical degree, married and started a medical practice. The practice didn't do well and she volunteered with the Union Army at the outbreak of the American Civil War and served as a female surgeon. She was captured by Confederate forces after crossing enemy lines to treat wounded civilians and arrested as a spy. She was sent as a prisoner of war to Richmond, Virginia until released in a prisoner exchange.
After the war she was approved for the United States military's highest decoration for bravery, the Medal of Honor, for her efforts during the war. She is the only woman to receive the medal and one of only eight civilians to receive it. Her medal was later rescinded based on an Army determination and then restored in 1977. After the war she was a writer and lecturer supporting the women's suffrage movement until her death in 1919.

The writer is just another whackjob looking for things to complain about.

Tully Mars · 11-21-2010, 03:01 PM

Thanks Dogzilla, seems like something like this both right and left could come together and agree.

Baraka_Guru · 11-21-2010, 03:52 PM

The guy writes for something called the American Family Association and is stating that it's more honourable and more courageous to kill someone than it is to save lives.

He then goes on to call the awarding the saving of lives as a "feminization" (and even makes the preposterous assumption that this is a bad thing).

The guy needs to check himself. He's undermined the very idea of family.

Shadowex3 · 11-21-2010, 05:07 PM

I already hate myself for saying this but having read the official accounts of his actions I find them to be very brave and definitely worthy of respect... but the justification of giving him a Medal of Honor for this just doesn't work. If you award him the honor based on the entire ambush then his whole squad obviously acted impressively, but if you award him the honor based solely on his lone actions of running out to rescue the other soldier then it just doesn't remotely compare with the standard that seems to have been set for the Medal of Honor.

The problem is that either his entire unit deserves commendation or you have to narrow down the scope of what actions you're looking at so much that it becomes silly to award a Medal of Honor for it. I wouldn't have seen any problem with giving his entire unit the Distinguished Service Cross or something but it just seems wrong the way this is being justified.

Regardless of all the politics behind that though Mr. Fischer is very loudly announcing that he creates a vacuum to the entire world.

ASU2003 · 11-22-2010, 05:42 AM

If they didn't find something to complain about, nobody would tune in. And they have to be more outrageous to get more advertisements and media promotion...

Plan9 · 11-22-2010, 06:09 AM

Hell, I'm surprised they're not checking his citizenship status.

"Damn Latinos are stealing all our medals!" - Rich White People

fresnelly · 11-22-2010, 06:23 AM

This would be high on the list of things I'm unqualified to offer an opinion on as it should be for him. What a dumbass.

Dammitall · 11-22-2010, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

The guy needs to check himself. He's undermined the very idea of family.

...as does that entire organization on a regular basis... but I digress.

/threadjack

Charlatan · 11-22-2010, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fresnelly

This would be high on the list of things I'm unqualified to offer an opinion on as it should be for him. What a dumbass.

+1

Willravel · 11-22-2010, 08:13 PM

I like that someone was given this award for saving lives instead of taking them. Clearly this young man is a hero by any reasonable metric. If the AFA has nothing to contribute, they should go about their business of collapsing due to their own incompetence and radicalization.

Cimarron29414 · 12-03-2010, 11:40 AM

If I remember correctly, Sgt. Giunta shot the two men dragging off his comrade, killing one of them. Furthermore, the two men he "rescued" ended up dying of their wounds. So, this notion of taking/not taking lives is moot. He took a life and he didn't really save a life.

I agree with SecretMethod that this didn't seem to rise to the level of MOH status, but I wasn't there and don't know the true level of risk involved in the action. I'll trust those who nominated.

While I am not "the right", I don't view him as speaking for "the right". He speaks for himself, and he's a dick.

remy1492 · 12-03-2010, 11:55 AM

I wouldn't say "THEY" or "THE right" or any plural association with people of conservative beliefs. Especially with a comment as strange and out there as this one.

Its ONE GUY. Yet posters use this to paint "THEY (conservatives/religious)" with the same brush.

This is akin to a wacko Liberal putting Jesus defamation art in say a National art gallery. ONE man, not indicative of a GROUP.

-thought this board was past that 3rd grade polarization and taking the media bait-

yournamehere · 12-05-2010, 12:37 PM

A member of the christian religious right saying we need more death in war.
Now there's something to ponder. How Christ-like, huh?

uncle phil · 12-05-2010, 04:39 PM

ya know, we all talk about this slime in forums such as this, around the water cooler, etc. why don't we individually and/or collectively send him a copy of our comments so that maybe he might get the hint that he isn't traveling the moral high ground that he thinks he is?

just a thought...

Willravel · 12-05-2010, 05:26 PM

You mean Bryan Fischer? I doubt he cares. He's writing this crap for people who agree with him, not for people like us.

11-21-2010, 02:55 PM	#4 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	That's the man, I use the term "man" here ironically. Never served, doesn't have a clue as far as I'm concerned. I hope a lot the right comes out and toasts him but I fear Rush et el will join in the ugliness. __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

11-21-2010, 03:01 PM	#6 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	Thanks Dogzilla, seems like something like this both right and left could come together and agree. __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

11-21-2010, 03:52 PM	#7 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	The guy writes for something called the American Family Association and is stating that it's more honourable and more courageous to kill someone than it is to save lives. He then goes on to call the awarding the saving of lives as a "feminization" (and even makes the preposterous assumption that this is a bad thing). The guy needs to check himself. He's undermined the very idea of family. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

11-22-2010, 06:09 AM	#10 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Hell, I'm surprised they're not checking his citizenship status. "Damn Latinos are stealing all our medals!" - Rich White People __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

11-22-2010, 06:23 AM	#11 (permalink)
fresnelly Functionally Appropriate Location: Toronto	This would be high on the list of things I'm unqualified to offer an opinion on as it should be for him. What a dumbass. __________________ Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

11-21-2010, 02:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
KirStang Future Bureaucrat	Wow....really?

11-22-2010, 05:42 AM	#9 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	If they didn't find something to complain about, nobody would tune in. And they have to be more outrageous to get more advertisements and media promotion...

11-22-2010, 08:13 PM	#14 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	I like that someone was given this award for saving lives instead of taking them. Clearly this young man is a hero by any reasonable metric. If the AFA has nothing to contribute, they should go about their business of collapsing due to their own incompetence and radicalization.

12-03-2010, 11:40 AM	#15 (permalink)
Cimarron29414 Still Free Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!	If I remember correctly, Sgt. Giunta shot the two men dragging off his comrade, killing one of them. Furthermore, the two men he "rescued" ended up dying of their wounds. So, this notion of taking/not taking lives is moot. He took a life and he didn't really save a life. I agree with SecretMethod that this didn't seem to rise to the level of MOH status, but I wasn't there and don't know the true level of risk involved in the action. I'll trust those who nominated. While I am not "the right", I don't view him as speaking for "the right". He speaks for himself, and he's a dick. __________________ Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

12-03-2010, 11:55 AM	#16 (permalink)
remy1492 Crazy Location: CA TX LU	I wouldn't say "THEY" or "THE right" or any plural association with people of conservative beliefs. Especially with a comment as strange and out there as this one. Its ONE GUY. Yet posters use this to paint "THEY (conservatives/religious)" with the same brush. This is akin to a wacko Liberal putting Jesus defamation art in say a National art gallery. ONE man, not indicative of a GROUP. -thought this board was past that 3rd grade polarization and taking the media bait-

12-05-2010, 12:37 PM	#17 (permalink)
yournamehere Invisible Location: tentative, at best	A member of the christian religious right saying we need more death in war. Now there's something to ponder. How Christ-like, huh? __________________ If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors: "If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too." It won't hurt your fashion sense, either.

12-05-2010, 04:39 PM	#18 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	ya know, we all talk about this slime in forums such as this, around the water cooler, etc. why don't we individually and/or collectively send him a copy of our comments so that maybe he might get the hint that he isn't traveling the moral high ground that he thinks he is? just a thought... __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

12-05-2010, 05:26 PM	#19 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	You mean Bryan Fischer? I doubt he cares. He's writing this crap for people who agree with him, not for people like us.