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Old 05-01-2003, 09:07 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Right or Wrong ?

is there absolutly wrong any more ?

Last edited by bender; 10-21-2003 at 02:36 PM..
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Old 05-01-2003, 09:13 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Ahem_my_space_bar_is_missing.But_yea_there_are_some_things_that_are_absoluttly
_wrong_such_as_murder.While_there_are_some_things_that_are_just_socially_wrong.
Such_as_rape.

edit: inserted some line breaks with my handy dandy return key
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Last edited by cheerios; 05-02-2003 at 12:21 AM..
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Old 05-01-2003, 09:26 AM   #3 (permalink)
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You are asking an age old question, are the morals or only morays?

Yes, I think there are absolute 'wrongs', but finding them is tricky.

One I've identified is, it is wrong to do things that push your species towards extinction.
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Old 05-01-2003, 09:37 AM   #4 (permalink)
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no matter what, there will always be wrong in the world and in society. none of us are perfect, no matter how much we strive for it. media can tell us what's socially acceptable through looks, to be perfect is to be skinny, tall, and beautiful and the only way to accomplish it is if you buy this pair of jeans. people try to tell us how to live our lives while saying that we are free and can do just about whatever we want. the rich screw people over to gain power, the poor don't give a fuck and are determined to get their revenge on the government by living off of it, and middle class is stuck inbetween.
stuff like that you see on tv and read about whether it's true or not. media will tell you how you should live your life.

as you can tell, i find alot of media to be one of the greatest evils today.
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Old 05-01-2003, 09:40 AM   #5 (permalink)
 
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You know what else is wrong.

WRITING IN CAPS WHEN YOU DON'T NEED TO. IT IS JUST WRONG AND IT MAKES PEOPLE THINK YOU ARE AN IDIOT.
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Old 05-01-2003, 09:47 AM   #6 (permalink)
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the only absolute wrong I can think of is rape.
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Old 05-01-2003, 09:57 AM   #7 (permalink)
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childporn, murder of the innocent all wrong !!
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Old 05-01-2003, 10:05 AM   #8 (permalink)
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scarebear hit it when he made the distinction between right an accptable. sure questiong the existance of absolute morals is useful but it becomes ALOT less complacated when we begin sepirateing things we consider accptable frome those we consider right. it's kinda tricky on the surface they look the same. still there are many right things that are not considered accptable. i think there are plenty of things that fall under the catagories of right and wrong. they're mostly broader and simpler concepts. relativism even in its watered down forms is a rather slippery beast and best not tackled by the masses or anyone really.
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Old 05-01-2003, 10:07 AM   #9 (permalink)
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ummm......Drugs are bad mmmmkay? and Mari-ju-ana is bad mmmmkay.
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Old 05-01-2003, 11:25 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by BBtB
Ahem_my_space_bar_is_missing...
Now that's dedication. Got a messed up keyboard and still managing to post a pretty logical reply on the Ol' TFP.
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Old 05-01-2003, 11:49 AM   #11 (permalink)
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yes, cuball. child exploiters should die
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Old 05-01-2003, 11:54 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Dennis Miller used to have a great bit about child exploiters. He basically said that every criminal should have a shot at redemption and rehabilitation, but if your "thing" is exploiting, molesting, or killing children, then you simply need to die. You need to lean in and take one for the team.
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Old 05-01-2003, 11:56 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sticky
[B
WRITING IN CAPS WHEN YOU DON'T NEED TO. IT IS JUST WRONG AND IT MAKES PEOPLE THINK YOU ARE AN IDIOT. [/B]
I think you're an idiot! (sorry, someone had to)

Yeah can't stand the capslock thing.
Killing = Bad
Being just plain old rude and mean to people = bad
(lots fits into that category....)

If there was no wrongs anymore, I think life would be a lot crazier
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Old 05-01-2003, 11:58 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I'm throwing in my vote for rape being wrong...

Murder is okay but only if is down in a really stylish Hollywood way.
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Old 05-01-2003, 11:23 PM   #15 (permalink)
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whether something is wrong or right is mostly opinionated i think. although most people would agree that rape, murder and child exploitation is wrong, it depends on the culture.

or could it be that those things need to be declared wrong so they are not comitted? .. okay i'm confusing myself!
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Old 05-01-2003, 11:36 PM   #16 (permalink)
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crimes against the innocent are simply wrong. cases can be made for murdering people, but there is no excuse for rape.
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Old 05-02-2003, 12:59 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by guthmund
Now that's dedication. Got a messed up keyboard and still managing to post a pretty logical reply on the Ol' TFP.
Finally pulled out the ol backup keyboard now.

And while I defintly agree that rape is wrong and should be illegal in our socitey today I just don't see it as an absolute wrong. What about in accient times when people lived in smaller groups? Tribes or pretribe times. What if all the woman (or all the men for that matter) all decided to stop breeding just for the sole purpose of the men (or women) not having children (or for whatever reason.) I don't think it is wrong if it is REQUIRED to keep the species. Of course that is an extreme circumstance and one that would never apply to our society today. Which is of course why I see it as a right or wrong dictated by society and not an absolute wrong. I still think that murder is in absolute wrong. Now remember that murder is not just to kill. Dictionary.com defines murder as 1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice. 2. To kill brutally or inhumanly. Putting a murder to death or deaths involved in war are not murder (as a rule that is... murder CAN happen in war but that dosn't mean all deaths are murders)
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Old 05-02-2003, 03:48 AM   #18 (permalink)
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The ultimate human right:

Every person has the right to do
whatever they want,
so long as it doesn't interfere with
someone else's right to do the same.

that covers it all.
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Old 05-02-2003, 05:35 AM   #19 (permalink)
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what about if you knew that the person you are about to murder will be responsible for the deaths of millions, or was personally responsible for murdering your family in a grotesque fashion?

and what if childporn is stopping pedophiles from actually phyiscally going out and molesting children?
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Old 05-02-2003, 06:13 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Loki
what about if you knew that the person you are about to murder will be responsible for the deaths of millions, or was personally responsible for murdering your family in a grotesque fashion?
eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.
the above persons actions certainly interferes with others freedom to live.




Quote:
Originally posted by Loki
and what if childporn is stopping pedophiles from actually phyiscally going out and molesting children? [/B]
any form of pedophillia is harmful to a child
is that really a question?
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Old 05-02-2003, 12:22 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Incest and cannibalism come to mind, at least in modern cultures.
The jury is still out on rural Alabama/Arkansas/Kentucky/West Virginia...(gratuitious appalachia joke)
 
Old 05-02-2003, 12:31 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Loki
what about if you knew that the person you are about to murder will be responsible for the deaths of millions, or was personally responsible for murdering your family in a grotesque fashion?
Well that could be considered lawful killing so there for would not be murder. Of course more people then just YOU need to decide he did that and deserves to die but that is neither here nor there.
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Old 05-02-2003, 03:07 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by alpha phi
eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.
the above persons actions certainly interferes with others freedom to live.
What i was trying to say was sure, that guy brutally murdered your family, so are you justified in murdering him?
what about his family, and his three kids that need him for putting money on the table? surely they wouldnt view his murder as an absolute wrong?


Quote:
any form of pedophillia is harmful to a child
is that really a question?
well, i dont know about you, but i'd much rather pedophiles getting thier rocks off to child porn off the 'net, then actually going out there, and screwing up some kid, both physically and mentally.
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Old 05-02-2003, 04:55 PM   #24 (permalink)
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no.
there are no absolutes.
ethics is relative.
the reason is: we invent it.
where else would it come from?
god?
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Old 05-02-2003, 05:09 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Anything immoral with a kid, rape, and murder (unless it's someone who needs killin').
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Old 05-02-2003, 05:17 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by ARTelevision
no.
there are no absolutes.
ethics is relative.
the reason is: we invent it.
where else would it come from?
god?
I agree with There Are No Absolutes... except two things (if i ever get comcast to fucking work with me i'll have my page up soon):

rape/child exploitation.

a lot think that he child exploitation can be overlooked, figuring the child will get over it. i've never seen or read -one- case where the kid isn't fucked up for life... rape pretty much mostly the same.

anyhow, when it comes to 'raping for multiplying'.... if our race ever got that bad off i hope we go extinct.
men are already evil enough.
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Old 05-02-2003, 07:37 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I believe wrongness is commiting a crime even knowing that it's wrong or commiting a crime that is wrong to your OWN standard. I do not feel anyone is enpowered to judge someone's action ass wrong or right simply because what lead the person to believe in such moral standard was from experience which define him and how could you say you are more right then he is only because your perspective of life is what the majority of poeple believe. Experience defines a person and how can you say he was wrong to experience what he had when it is inevitable. This is however, quite idealistic of me; i do think law and absolute moral standard is a neccesaty in order to have a functioning society.
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Old 05-02-2003, 07:40 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Old 05-02-2003, 07:58 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I have a question: For those of you who have seen Boondock Saints, would you consider what they were doing right or wrong?

Is vigilante justice an ok method to deal with the evils of society? What if it is the only way to get it done, since the crime system has loopholes?

If this doesn't seem to fit the thread, I apologize and please disregard this. It just seemed to fit to me.

Oh, and as for absolutes... I guess the only things I consider absolute wrongs are rape, the killing of innocents, and abuse of children in any form.

Everything must be taken in context, though. Some things that are alright at some times are wrong at others, and vice versa.
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Last edited by phoenix1002; 05-02-2003 at 08:01 PM..
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Old 05-02-2003, 11:21 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Im with Cuball
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Old 05-02-2003, 11:59 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Okay now let me just rephrase my stance. I DO think that child explotiation as well as rape are both WRONG should be ilegal. I just do not see them as absolute ingrained wrongs. Here is a question on child explotation. How do you define child or child porn? I mean in the US today if a 17 year old has nudie pictures taken of her for her boyfriend or whatever that is considered child porn. Now depending on the country others say 17 is legal but not 16. And some say 16 is legal but not 15. And atleast one I know if untill recently had no age limit at all (Japan, Although recently they did set an age limit. The limit there is now 18 I THINK) So how can it be an absolute wrong (And btw absolute wrong means that it is wrong now,was wrong in cave man days and will be wrong forever) if right now it is wrong well differn't ages in differn't countrys as well as it was very common to get married in the early teens untill recently?



EDIT: And one thing I want to add is just because something is not an absolute wrong does not make it any less wrong in our society today if it is a soceital wrong.
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Old 05-04-2003, 09:50 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Re: Right or Wrong ?

Quote:
Originally posted by bender
With the world seeming to get smaller everyday and the blending of cultures is there anything done socially that is absolutly wrong any more ?
It doesn't matter if the world is getting smaller, of course there are absolute wrongs in the world unfortunately. I agree with most of the other replies, that things such as murder of innocents, exploitation of children (be it sexual or otherwise) and rape are wrong.
I would like to think that the enhanced ability we enjoy now to explore the world from our homes (via the net and forums such as this) and that gives us the ability to hear other's viewpoints would allow us to become more tolerant as a whole. Then perhaps we would see more of the good that is out there rather than the bad.
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Old 05-04-2003, 10:02 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by alpha phi
The ultimate human right:

Every person has the right to do
whatever they want,
so long as it doesn't interfere with
someone else's right to do the same.

that covers it all.
yup...well said.
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Old 05-04-2003, 10:14 AM   #34 (permalink)
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uh maybe the age of consent should be lowered to fifteen or sixteen for sex.

the thing is..... if i saw a 17 y/o girl say she was very traumatised due to nude pics. . . i'd investigate it. if she is more or less money hungry i'd set the fine as low as possible. this is a very grey area..

but...... if we come across a four year old who was raped and so forth? fuck it. the person who did it should be done with. do not pass Go, do not collect $200. you die.
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Old 05-04-2003, 11:05 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by WhoaitsZ
but...... if we come across a four year old who was raped and so forth? fuck it. the person who did it should be done with. do not pass Go, do not collect $200. you die.
See and that is my point. When most people say child exploitation they mean under 13 or 14 or so. But legally it is under 18 in THIS country. Just because no one can agree what a "child" is that makes this a socital wrong and not an absolute wrong.
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Old 05-04-2003, 05:02 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I still think we should try to go by the Golden Rule. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." I know there are those idiots out there just doing whatever it takes to pamper their Id and boost their ego but what goes around comes around I believe. I do believe in a higher power and I believe that in the end you will get what you deserve.
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Old 05-04-2003, 05:26 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Things that will always be wrong:

Exalting yourself at the expense of others
Murder
Rape
Abortion
Theft (of any type, or for any reason)
Making fun of others (for any reason, regardless of who they are)

I'm sure there's more, but those sprung to mind.
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Old 05-04-2003, 10:40 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
originally posted by Loki
well, i dont know about you, but i'd much rather pedophiles getting thier rocks off to child porn off the 'net, then actually going out there, and screwing up some kid, both physically and mentally.
How did those pictures get on the 'net unless some poor kid has already been fucked with? Supporting child porn is supporting people that hurt kids.

Child pornographers need to be thrown into the same woodchipper as child molesters. And people who generate pop-up ads.
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Old 05-06-2003, 07:46 AM   #39 (permalink)
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I read this little report regarding some areas in Palestine where a woman or girl could be killed over " honour " if her vertue was tainted in anyway even if she was the victom of rape or incest she would be murdered.
In that area the people think that they are doing the right thing and are treated as celebs. for killing family members who in our minds have done nothing wrong.
It doesn't make sense to me, and has got me thinking that in some areas what we consider absol. wrong is thought of as absol. right.
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Old 05-06-2003, 04:38 PM   #40 (permalink)
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I believe there a few absolute right and wrong rules. Most ethical issues are subject to cultural relativity. Basically, you are free to do what you want as long as you are not inhibiting another's freedom. Now, there is no way that two people can live the same hemisphere with there being some conflict over whose freedom trumps the other.

Here the absolute rules I came up with:

1) Murder is wrong. Now, murder is not the same as killing. Some killing is appropriate and very moral. The intentional killing of an innocent is murder, and it is wrong.

2) Rape is wrong. Period. Maintaing the race is not justification.

3) False imprisonment and slavery are wrong.

4) Abusing children is wrong. What consititutes abuse and not discipline is open to some debate, but clearly abusing children for sexual or other reasons can not be justified.
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