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Old 01-22-2004, 01:50 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Minority Participation....

I am new to TFP and thought I would try my hand at a new thread. I don't intend to step on any toes, but rather raise a question to see what kind of responces I can recieve.

I work in the construction idustry and to make a long story short on a paticular project (in North Carolina for a predominatly "Black" school) we are being required to use "Minority Participation". On this project, a certain percentage of the work has to be done by minority contractors. Minority contractors are defined as a company which is owned or operated by someone that is "Black", "Hispanic", "Female", or other minority group. The trouble with awarding contracts to minority contractors is that most of the time the company's are not creditable or large enough to complete the work on time, on schedule, and with the quality that the owner expects. We proposed creditable minority contractors to complete the project. Most of our minority participation came from "Hispanic" contractors. The school in question said that this was not acceptable, that we needed more "Black" participation. If this was the case why didn't the school state this in the bid documents?

Here is the 100 dollar question:

Is the United Staes the only nation that a poor hispanic man can move to the states and with in 5 years, own and operate a business that can support himself and his family (in another country I might add) and a "Black" man can not seem to get off welfare?

We all know that the United States has its share of problems but it seems that it is the "Black" man has taken advantage of our system. I believe in equal rights, NOT special rights.
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Old 01-22-2004, 02:08 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The United States has a lot of bullshit racial laws that need to get horked.

In the interest of keeping things "fair" more qualified, harder working, better employees get canned because they aren't the right shade. The irony is so apparent to me I could spread it on toast and eat it.
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Old 01-22-2004, 02:42 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Phaenx
The United States has a lot of bullshit racial laws that need to get horked.

In the interest of keeping things "fair" more qualified, harder working, better employees get canned because they aren't the right shade. The irony is so apparent to me I could spread it on toast and eat it.
it doesn't just happen in America, happens anywhere there are multiple cultures living and working together.
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Old 01-22-2004, 02:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Minority Participation....

Quote:
Originally posted by jonb2serment
Is the United Staes the only nation that a poor hispanic man can move to the states and with in 5 years, own and operate a business that can support himself and his family (in another country I might add) and a "Black" man can not seem to get off welfare?

We all know that the United States has its share of problems but it seems that it is the "Black" man has taken advantage of our system. I believe in equal rights, NOT special rights.
Geez...did you really have to go there. I mean, you were making some interesting points about minority participation.

Do you really believe the racist stereotype of the black man abusing the welfare system?
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Old 01-22-2004, 06:24 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Hiring, or anything for that matter, based solely on race is a crock. It does not promote equality in any way, shape or form.

Hell, I don't even like using the term 'race'.

We are all the same. Peal back the skin and it's all the same. My lungs are the same colour as the blackest of men's, my kidneys in the same location as those in asian folks. We are not seperate races, we are a single race with a very minor difference.

This is legalized segregation done in the name of political correctness and fairness. This does nothing but fertelize racism and hatred between people.

Jon, wow, that last statement is a pretty bold one. Care to back it up?

I know people from many 'races' that are hardcore welfare cases. Being a welfare case does not require one to be black.
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Old 01-23-2004, 05:10 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Yes, tinfoil I know that was a pretty bold statement. I also know many people who are on welfare and work very hard. Most are single parent homes with several childern and the system works for them, but then you have the people that milk the system. This really hurts the people that really need this system.

In small business its dog eat dog. For every 100 small business that start up you probally have 1 that goes on to be very successful. The other 99 go under. Its just how business works. When minority owners require you to use small minority contractors you are really hurting the small business man, by letting minority contractors hang on the coat tails of the larger business or owner. This allows the system to become over swamped with small not profitable companies. They hang on, barely staying alive, by making so called friends in the minority owner. This is very wrong and hurts us all in the long run.

Racism is a real problem. Its kept alive by all races. I think I stated this above, Equal rights are not special rights.
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Old 01-23-2004, 07:21 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Programs designed to ensure that money stays within a specific community are good in theory. The idea behind them is that by promoting investment in companies based in that community you strengthen a financially disadvantaged community rather than exporting the few dollars that community generates. The problem is that many of these programs are the result of unfunded federal and state mandates that become a burden to the small business owner. Ideally, these programs would be funded mandates that would provide job training and business counseling for small business owners, thus creating profitable and competent small business entities that can in turn reinvest in their communities. Unfortunately, the dominant political ideology in this country is based on putting band-aids on problems instead of fixing them so money gets spent on welfare programs instead of community development.

As far as your comment on "the Black man taking advantage of the system" that has to be one of the most ignorant arguments that is constantly perpetuated in this county. The neighborhood that I grew up in has a large number of people on public assistance, still most of my generation has attended college and most of us are productive members of society. There are Black and White families in my neighborhood that pass poverty and public assistance from one generation to the next like it was a family heirloom, but the majority are hard working people that were unable to get a college education in the 50s and 60s dues to lack of funds, opportunity or other commitments but work hard to ensure their children have something better. Others are just lazy and would rather get knocked up and collect a check than go to work. Thatís an issue of people, not race. Try getting your facts from real sources instead of right wing pundits and propaganda.
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Old 01-23-2004, 07:36 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cynthetiq
it doesn't just happen in America, happens anywhere there are multiple cultures living and working together.
You're generalizing...

Canada has very little number of laws that has something to do with attempts to equalize minority. But the problem in Canada, there's barely any minority anymore which kinda eliminates the need for those kinds of law...

As for United States, its a problem simply because there's too many idiots running around and making a big deal about it. We're all the fucking same! We have a pair of arm, pair of leg, a head, torso, just a fucking different colour!

Quote:
Originally posted by tinfoil
We are all the same. Peal back the skin and it's all the same. My lungs are the same colour as the blackest of men's, my kidneys in the same location as those in asian folks. We are not seperate races, we are a single race with a very minor difference.
We all are the same. The problem is the people who think they're the minority group is making a big deal about it...
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Old 01-23-2004, 09:06 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Is it not true perhaps that racism and discrimination causes this?

Black people in America have often lived in worse conditions than white or other ethnics. They have often had worse jobs, education and housing etc. Couldn't this have contributed to many being on welfare support today?
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Old 01-23-2004, 09:24 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by wannabenakid247
Is it not true perhaps that racism and discrimination causes this?

Black people in America have often lived in worse conditions than white or other ethnics. They have often had worse jobs, education and housing etc. Couldn't this have contributed to many being on welfare support today?
My parent's came from a shithole of sexual abuse, poverty, alcoholism, and lack of education. They pulled themselves up out of the gutter because they realized that life could be a lot better.

The United States is the land of opportunity. There is absolutely no reason not to be successful in life.
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Old 01-23-2004, 09:32 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by wannabenakid247
Black people in America have often lived in worse conditions than white or other ethnics. They have often had worse jobs, education and housing etc. Couldn't this have contributed to many being on welfare support today?
Read about how Asians were treated around 100 years ago. They certainly don't have a problem anymore, in fact they beat whites in most areas (standardized tests, income, etc.)
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Old 01-23-2004, 09:46 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by feelgood
As for United States, its a problem simply because there's too many idiots running around and making a big deal about it. We're all the fucking same! We have a pair of arm, pair of leg, a head, torso, just a fucking different colour!
And that statement isn't generalizing?

I offer another scenario. A majority of my "white" family resides in the deep south. Decatur, Georgia, part of Dekalb County, has a population of over 90% African American. There are no laws there that mandate a percentage of other races and cultural backgrounds have to get onto business contracts. Isn't this reverse discrimination towards other races?

I think it is all bullshit. IMO, I believe contracts should be granted according to quality of work, not color of skin.
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Old 01-23-2004, 10:53 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by water_boy1999
And that statement isn't generalizing?


I think it is all bullshit. IMO, I believe contracts should be granted according to quality of work, not color of skin.
Right you are water_boy
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Old 01-29-2004, 11:35 PM   #14 (permalink)
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In my opinion the system needs to be either disbanded entirely, or those on it to be made to work 8 hours a day; be it for the state, community service or what have you. That would cut down on the leeches I believe. As far as race goes in America I don't care if your purple with pink stripes if you want too, and work at it you can get ahead and make something of your self/life. This I'm a minority BS is just plain lazyness.
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Old 02-04-2004, 03:19 AM   #15 (permalink)
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grr dont even fuckin get me started on the mex's in this stupid country. if i could pay the government so that i could stand on the border of mexico and shoot those stupid bastards i would. if you go to another country you should be required by law to learn the language not make every other pure bred american learn your freakin jibberish.

*no offense to english learning mexicans that pay taxes, just the ones who think that america is the land that gives and gives and gives and keeps on giving the poor middle class white folks money to non educated slackers whos only accomplishment was learning to swim that shit brown river they had to cross to get here then cross again after 4 years then come back ina week and get more money*

wow almost ran outta air on this one.
i know im probably gonna get into trouble with this one but oh well its almost worth it.
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Old 02-04-2004, 05:09 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by fallen_angel
grr dont even fuckin get me started on the mex's in this stupid country. if i could pay the government so that i could stand on the border of mexico and shoot those stupid bastards i would. if you go to another country you should be required by law to learn the language not make every other pure bred american learn your freakin jibberish.
...and that's why you need minority paricipation rules.
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Old 02-04-2004, 05:29 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I'm not sure if its still being used, but I remember learning in a HR subject at uni that the US had a program called affirmative action. If i remember correctly it was essentially a program that would place females in jobs that they were not necessarily the best person for. Is this correct and is this still the case. If so, isn't that simialr to what is going on above except just a different kind of entrenched discrimination?

Perhaps not?
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Old 02-04-2004, 06:36 AM   #18 (permalink)
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It is too bad that this was worded so poorly. I think the point is, as other's have skirted, the white male is currently at a disadvantage in our society. My sons had less scholarships they could apply for because of the color of their skin. They had to score higher on military exams to get the same job as their minority counterparts. They even, at times, wished they were black so they could have the same opportunities. This has happened because of 100s of years of injustice. The pendulum swung from the far right to the far left. However, I believe that the pendulum will swing to the middle, as it usually does when something "wrong" is being corrected.
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Old 02-04-2004, 09:36 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by fallen_angel
if you go to another country you should be required by law to learn the language not make every other pure bred american learn your freakin jibberish.
Get it straight. There is no such thing as a pure bred american.
We live in a giant melting pot, and if you want to be picky, a pure bred american is a native american, not a european decent mutt.
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Old 02-04-2004, 09:49 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by fallen_angel
grr dont even fuckin get me started on the mex's in this stupid country. if i could pay the government so that i could stand on the border of mexico and shoot those stupid bastards i would. if you go to another country you should be required by law to learn the language not make every other pure bred american learn your freakin jibberish.

*no offense to english learning mexicans that pay taxes, just the ones who think that america is the land that gives and gives and gives and keeps on giving the poor middle class white folks money to non educated slackers whos only accomplishment was learning to swim that shit brown river they had to cross to get here then cross again after 4 years then come back ina week and get more money*

wow almost ran outta air on this one.
i know im probably gonna get into trouble with this one but oh well its almost worth it.
Ok, so if they (mexicans) need to learn our language if they come into our country, then perhaps our own should learn how the write grammatically correct when bashing another culture.
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Old 02-04-2004, 11:06 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Despite Fallen_Angels poor grammar and less then inviting wording, there is much truth to what he is saying.

Look at places like California. Tax payers are forced to cough up money for education and I believe health care for illegals. They are forced to cough up more then 1 BILLION dollars incarcerating and sending said illegals through the judicial process.
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Old 02-04-2004, 11:25 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by fallen_angel
grr dont even fuckin get me started on the mex's in this stupid country...
Wow...I didn't think I'd ever read anything so blatantly and unabashedly racist here at TFP.

Replace Mexican with African-American and you could've heard the same kind of speech in the deep south forty years ago.

Guess some things will never change.
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Last edited by sipsake; 02-04-2004 at 11:28 AM..
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Old 02-04-2004, 12:40 PM   #23 (permalink)
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How great will it be when your future child comes home with one of those "mex's" child. Oh wait that won't be happening since racism is taught.
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Old 02-04-2004, 01:08 PM   #24 (permalink)
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It seems like every day, more and more "Racist" issues come up. I truly do NOT understand why everything can't be equal, truly equal, where everything is based on merit, and what you put into it. IE; when you apply for a job, instead of your name, write your social security number, refrences etc. You get hired based on your ability to preform the job well.

And since when is it the Government's job to take care of the "Poor Minority". The United States is a place where you get out what you put in. If you sit on your lazy ass and do nothing, then that's what you're going to get. If you're in an Inner City school because your parents can't afford anything better, well, that's your bit in life, if you choose to work your way out of it, then you deserve to get the good job that will come because of that. Or you can sit and rot, choose to do drugs and be involved in gangs. Regardless, it's ALL a personal choice. Think of all the Rags to riches stories, everyone has to start somewhere, it's just a matter of personal motivation.

I pay the same taxes that anyone else does, why do others who decided to not do anything with their lives get more of my tax money? Since when is it right to be punished for your own success??

I do not understand how anyone can honestly say that AA, Minority representation, minority scholarships(unless they are a Private scholarship) are fair. Everyone has an equal chance from day one. What they do with their life is theirs. It is unfair for anyone to recieve anything based souly on skin color, or gender. That is indeed REVERSE DISCRIMINATION against me; and million's of other hardworking A-typical White males.

I am aware that this thread is taking the basic side of supporting minorities, and I will probably be branded a racist, or ignorant, or "unaware", because of my statements. However, my statements are not meant to offend anyone, and I will defend them.
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Old 02-04-2004, 06:04 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I just want to know why women are treated as a minority I thought they outnumbered men?
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Old 02-04-2004, 06:06 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by arch13
Get it straight. There is no such thing as a pure bred american.
We live in a giant melting pot, and if you want to be picky, a pure bred american is a native american, not a european decent mutt.
Unless you're morman.
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Old 02-06-2004, 08:56 AM   #27 (permalink)
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First of all I'm white, second of all everyone needs to stop complaining, "oh, reverse discrimination". Give me a brake us white people have NO idea what it is like to be black. I guarantee more than half of us, when we see a black person walking by us, we ask ourselves I wonder if they smoke weed, or are they on welfare. I will admit I'm not racist but these thoughts even pass through my head from time to time. Black people are predominately born into poverty and until people can realize that most black people are good people we are going to have this stigma that they are taking advantage of the system. It is so much more unlikely that a black man/woman will go to college than a white man/woman because of their money situation, these laws help these minority advantages (if you want to call them that) help them give them a chance to have a little bit better life. The average white man makes around $40,000, while the average black man makes $30,000 and black woman makes $27,000. People do something to help society instead of bitching.

Thanks for reading the whole message.
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Old 02-06-2004, 10:51 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I'm a damn mex and i agree with you. My father got his green card and came legally to this country and him and my mother worked their asses off for the things we have today and it disturbes me greatly that my father may lose his job because its cheaper for his employer to contract a landscapeing company because it employs illigal mexicans who will work for absurdly low wages
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