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Old 04-01-2004, 07:26 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Girl Banned From Prom For Smoking Away From School

Quote:
GRAND FORKS, N.D. -- Leona Fitzpatrick is going to court -- in order to go to the senior prom.

She's been barred from her prom for smoking -- and not even on school grounds. The Hillsboro, N.D., School Board has rules against students using alcohol, tobacco or drugs.

Students can be kicked out of extracurricular activities for violating the no-smoking rule.

Now, Leona is seeking a court order so she can go to the dance. Her parents point out that she's 18 and legally allowed to smoke in North Dakota.
Do we need further evidence that there is too much interference in our own personal lives?

A.) She's 18. It's legal for her to smoke, if she so chooses.

B.) She was smoking off of school property. How far should a school's "jurisdiction" reach?
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Old 04-01-2004, 07:33 AM   #2 (permalink)
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That's ridiculous...

Was it a private school? Religious school? I went to a public high school in tobacco country (Northeastern Kentucky) so this seems totally foreign to me.

I have an issue with insitutions of learning that interfere with a students personal behaviour outside of instructional hours. That's why I chose a university with lax rules about where students live, how they live, etc. I'm not going to be required to live in a dorm...that's bullshit. I'm going to smoke if I want to. I'm going to drink if I want to. How can we ever expect people to responsibly handle freedom if we bar them from it and keep them in a state of prolonged adolescence?
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Old 04-01-2004, 07:58 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Thats going waaay to far. People need to chill the fuck out.
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Old 04-01-2004, 08:03 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by krwlz
Thats going waaay to far. People need to chill the fuck out.
You have no fuckin idea how many people needs to do that
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Old 04-01-2004, 08:08 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by SabrinaFair
How can we ever expect people to responsibly handle freedom if we bar them from it and keep them in a state of prolonged adolescence?
Couldn't have conveyed my sentiments any better....
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Old 04-01-2004, 08:11 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Yup, those people desperatly need to pull the sticks out of their asses. The good news is that she will most likely win or the school will give in due to all the negativity.
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Old 04-01-2004, 08:12 AM   #7 (permalink)
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As I've said before-
Either make the shit illegal, or stop discriminating against people who use it.
One or the other.
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Old 04-01-2004, 08:17 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Welcome to the Nanny state.
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Old 04-01-2004, 08:45 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by feelgood
You have no fuckin idea how many people needs to do that
Im realizing that more and more evey day man. People are way too uptight about everything.
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Old 04-01-2004, 09:02 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I've heard of situations like this before... I don't understand what makes the school administration think they can possibly tell an adult what to do off school grounds. Next will they be barring kids from homecoming whose parents smoke?
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Old 04-01-2004, 09:17 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Back in highschool (Like 6 years ago) these two girls had a fight on thier OWN property. Somehow our school finds out, and gives them ISS (In school suspension) for some overly insane amount of time.

It didnt happen during school hours, wasnt near school property, yet still the school had the idea to jump in and fuck it up.
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Old 04-01-2004, 09:27 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Public schools are defineatly going down the shitter, GWB's no child left behind plan doesn't help things.
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Old 04-01-2004, 09:59 AM   #13 (permalink)
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my private school had a 2 mile radius that you had to behave within those confines because of the school's reputation as they put it.

Any infraction including parking tickets could cause additional punishment from the school. My g/f lived 2 blocks from the school and she went to a public school.

IMHO if you agree to something, you abide by it. PERIOD.

my friend works for a company that says NO SMOKING period even at home. Because they feel it's important for their employees health. He signed a piece of paper that says he'll be fired for it. He smokes once in a while, if he's caught he knows the ramifications and consequences.
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Old 04-01-2004, 11:21 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Giving the school control of an adults habits OFF school grounds in regards to tobacco, drugs, and alcohol grants them the same right to impose on ANYTHING. A ban on sex, television, etc. How the hell is that remotely legal/constitutional?
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Old 04-01-2004, 11:24 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cynthetiq
my friend works for a company that says NO SMOKING period even at home. Because they feel it's important for their employees health. He signed a piece of paper that says he'll be fired for it. He smokes once in a while, if he's caught he knows the ramifications and consequences.
It's fucked up that he should have to sign that shit. If they are going to do that, they need to make the fatasses get on the treadmill. Total hypocrisy
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Old 04-01-2004, 11:57 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by kutulu
If they are going to do that, they need to make the fatasses get on the treadmill.
Fair warning... Use a better choice of word next time, such as overweight or something like that, but I agree 100%.
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Old 04-01-2004, 12:14 PM   #17 (permalink)
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The principle of the school should be thrown in jail, the girl can go to the prom... end of story.
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Old 04-01-2004, 12:49 PM   #18 (permalink)
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just wait until this kind of stuff lands on our shores, then we'll have something to really talk about...

but, still, it's a complete load of crap, i would like to take a gun to the head of the man that started this, to make an example to all the damned people who do this...
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Old 04-01-2004, 12:57 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I got iss once because the school superintendent saw me smoking a few blocks away from school. Nevermind that in a town of 783 people every block is a few blocks away from school. I think schools should be more concerned with educating the children than whether the children are smoking outside of school. WOULD SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?!


btw:this is my one thousandth post.

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.
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Old 04-01-2004, 12:58 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by kutulu
It's fucked up that he should have to sign that shit. If they are going to do that, they need to make the fatasses get on the treadmill. Total hypocrisy
its a private company and he can seek employment elsewhere if he doesn't like their policies, and yes, they do have a gym on site. They manufacture sports equipment so it makes sense that their employees are healthy.
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Old 04-01-2004, 01:03 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I also think the contract saying employee's can't smoke is illegal... well, I actually am lying... I KNOW it would be illegal in the UK, I dont know about the US, but I kinda hope it is there too.
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Old 04-01-2004, 01:20 PM   #22 (permalink)
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man thats really lame...

but check this out...
its the Liberty university code of conduct...
http://www.liberty.edu/StudentAffair...x.cfm?PID=1378
"Attendance at a dance" $35 fine...
"Attendance at, possession or viewing of, an "R," "NC-17" or "X"-rated movie" $70 fine!
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Old 04-01-2004, 01:26 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by krwlz
Thats going waaay to far. People need to chill the fuck out.
Couldn't agree more, this is ridiculous.
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Old 04-01-2004, 01:33 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by JStrider
man thats really lame...

but check this out...
its the Liberty university code of conduct...
http://www.liberty.edu/StudentAffair...x.cfm?PID=1378
"Attendance at a dance" $35 fine...
"Attendance at, possession or viewing of, an "R," "NC-17" or "X"-rated movie" $70 fine!
not really lame.. you picked the school, you abide by the rules such as code of ethics, dress code, etc... no one is forcing you to go there.
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Old 04-01-2004, 01:46 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cynthetiq
not really lame.. you picked the school, you abide by the rules such as code of ethics, dress code, etc... no one is forcing you to go there.
Couldn't agree more.
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Old 04-01-2004, 02:22 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I go to public school and it's the only one in quite a distance, I don't have too much of a choice.

If you smell like you've been smoking when you come into the building or at any time of the day, then you're suspended(oss).

There was a fight two days ago some stupid kids down at the park bout a mile and a half from the school. What happened was assult in actuality. Someone was sent to the hospital. Today(not yesterday, mind you) my school starts calling the kids involved in the fight to the office then having them escorted away by poilice. You must also understand that neither the kid who was sent to the hospital, his parents or any of the other kids were intending on pressing any kind of charges. They are now in oss for about a week
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Old 04-01-2004, 02:33 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
As I've said before-
Either make the shit illegal, or stop discriminating against people who use it.
One or the other.
No.

Give people the rope to hang themselves with. Or, at the least, don't kill people in order to keep the rope away from them.

I think that the only things that should be illegal are those that cause harm to other people. If causing harm to yourself makes you a worse employee, student or insurance client, that is your problem.

Edit:
By the way, did anyone else misread this as "Girl Banned From Porn For Smoking Away From School" at least once? *sigh*, stupid brain.
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Old 04-01-2004, 03:10 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Greaking stupid. I really hate stuff like that.
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Old 04-01-2004, 03:22 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Luki
I go to public school and it's the only one in quite a distance, I don't have too much of a choice.

If you smell like you've been smoking when you come into the building or at any time of the day, then you're suspended(oss).

There was a fight two days ago some stupid kids down at the park bout a mile and a half from the school. What happened was assult in actuality. Someone was sent to the hospital. Today(not yesterday, mind you) my school starts calling the kids involved in the fight to the office then having them escorted away by poilice. You must also understand that neither the kid who was sent to the hospital, his parents or any of the other kids were intending on pressing any kind of charges. They are now in oss for about a week
The other side of the coin is that no one monitors the children. Are people on this board really suggesting that minors should be allowed to fight on or off campus, use drugs, and drink alcohol?

I think that attitude is preposterous. If the parents aren't home (and they usually aren't due to work, nowdays), at least some part of society is taking responsibility for the youth. If this is a nanny state, whatever, we need to start taking and dispensing responsibility in raising children or we will continue to reap the shit that occurs when we let them raise themselves.

That said, given that the girl was a legal adult, she should no longer be monitored at this level. For that reason alone, I think she shouldn't be in trouble. But I don't agree that this is bad policy or intention. It certaintly shouldn't be considered meddling and I suspect any loving parent actually appreciates when someone (anyone--a cop, a teacher, a neighbor) takes steps to protect the obvious well-being of their child (obvious being things like drug use, illegal activity, and beating the shit out of one another, not moral judgements based off things like dressing funky or looking at smut mags).
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Old 04-01-2004, 03:35 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by yournamehere
As I've said before-
Either make the shit illegal, or stop discriminating against people who use it.
One or the other.
This is the smartest thing I have heard in a long time.
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Old 04-01-2004, 03:40 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cynthetiq
its a private company and he can seek employment elsewhere if he doesn't like their policies, and yes, they do have a gym on site. They manufacture sports equipment so it makes sense that their employees are healthy.
Last time I checked it was illegal to discriminate. I know that many companies have started those policies, they are discrimination policies. Unless they are going to forbid their employees from ALL unhealthy activities (including drinking, foods, failure to exercise, infiedelity, etc.) its discrimination. They are singling out one particular group. That is discrimination.

You mention that they have exercise facilities, is it required that employees stay healthy and within their optimum weight? I doubt it because if they did they'd get sued (as they should).

We are not talking about drug testing, we are talking about forbiding a person from engaging in a perfectly legal activity. The company should be allowed to ban smoking on company property, but they should NOT be allowed to ban people from smoking outside of work.

These policies are only getting by because the smokers are too spinless to stand up for themselves. They have been beaten into submission by fascist nonsmokers. If my employer tried to pull that shit on me I'd sue their asses (even if I didn't smoke).
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Old 04-01-2004, 03:47 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:

12 Reprimands + $70 Fine
(less previously paid fines)

Attendance at, possession or viewing of, an "R," "NC-17" or "X"-rated movie
Deception
Entering the residence hallway of the opposite sex or allowing the same
I assume this is irony, an Onion article or something?

if it is a real college, then all I could say is they must have no students. And how silly to create a college called "Liberty" and impose and many stupid rules that restrict freedom as you can imagine... I guess they must have read 1984 and be determined to help prove Orwell right?
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Old 04-01-2004, 04:07 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by kutulu
These policies are only getting by because the smokers are too spinless to stand up for themselves. They have been beaten into submission by fascist nonsmokers. If my employer tried to pull that shit on me I'd sue their asses (even if I didn't smoke).
sorry nope. try again. the company is located in the sue happy state of California. The company is over 80 years old.

It's a private company. It's not discrimination, it's like a dress code, you either comply or you find employment elsewhere. and before you were employed you would have known about the policy it's not like it just happened overnight.

What's so hard about that?

And if you want to sue, you go right ahead, companies like to deep pocket little guys just like you. I see it happen ALL the time.

Since you don't seem to understand what discrimination laws are concerning employment, please allow me to enlighten you.

from http://fatty.law.cornell.edu/topics/...imination.html
Quote:
Employment Discrimination laws seek to prevent discrimination based on race, sex, religion, national origin, physical disability, and age by employers. There is also a growing body of law preventing or occasionally justifying employment discrimination based on sexual orientation. Discriminatory practices include bias in hiring, promotion, job assignment, termination, compensation, and various types of harassment. The main body of employment discrimination laws is composed of federal and state statutes. The United States Constitution and some state constitutions provide additional protection where the employer is a governmental body or the government has taken significant steps to foster the discriminatory practice of the employer.
sorry I see nothing in regards to smoker vs. non smoker, eating unhealthy foods, fatasses, and stupid people.

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Old 04-01-2004, 04:09 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strange Famous
I assume this is irony, an Onion article or something?

if it is a real college, then all I could say is they must have no students. And how silly to create a college called "Liberty" and impose and many stupid rules that restrict freedom as you can imagine... I guess they must have read 1984 and be determined to help prove Orwell right?
As far as I know its legit. It's a private Christian university. It gets better:

Quote:
Entering bedroom of the opposite sex on/off campus or allowing the same
People need to start standing up for themselves. Driscrimination is allowed all over the place. Some employers have policies that forbid employees from waterskiing, rock-climbing, off road driving, etc. Ever notice that you NEVER see overweight or ugly people working at a trendy bar? Read this:

Quote:
In 1989, Daniel Winn, an employee at the Best Lock Corporation in Indiana, admitted to his superiors that several years earlier he had a few drinks in a bar with friends. Mr. Winn was promptly fired on the basis of Best Lock's policy that its employees cannot drink alcohol under any circumstances.

Two officials at the Ford Meter Box Co. in Wabash, Ind. pulled Janice Bone aside and escorted her from the plant. Bone is a smoker, and although she did not smoke on the job, Ford's policy barred her from smoking at all. "I was very shocked. It's devastating when this happens to you", said Bone. 1

In Michigan, Donna O'Leary, a bus driver, was unable during a physical exam to run in place for three minutes. O'Leary, who weighs over 368 pounds was simply terminated after 26 years employment.
Was Mrs. O'Leary unable to operate her bus properly because she weighed 368 pounds? Did the drinks Daniel Winn had a few years ago effect his ability to work years later? Was Janice Bone a shitty worker because she smoked off duty? This is fucking bullshit. What I do when I'm not getting paid is not my employer's business.
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Old 04-01-2004, 04:18 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Health is your employers business if they pay for your health care. If you want to sign a waiver to relinquish health care, all the power to you. If they don't want to hire unhealthy people, find work somewhere else. Isn't that the beauty of private institutions--they are free to impose regulations and you are free to abide by them or not.

Ah, freedom.

BTW, I see lots of ugly people working at trendy bars. Maybe I just haven't drank enough at them.

Also, I'd think the bus company has an interest in not being sued when a 400 pound lady has a hard attack with a busload of passengers.
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Old 04-01-2004, 04:28 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by smooth
Health is your employers business if they pay for your health care. If you want to sign a waiver to relinquish health care, all the power to you. If they don't want to hire unhealthy people, find work somewhere else. Isn't that the beauty of private institutions--they are free to impose regulations and you are free to abide by them or not.
Then can I form a business that only hires 26-41 year old mexican men without physical disabilities? We have defined certain limits on discrimination. They have been expanded. If people stand up for themselves, they will expand it again.

If you love your job, should you have to find a new one because they won't let you go waterskiing?

Last edited by kutulu; 04-01-2004 at 04:31 PM..
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Old 04-01-2004, 05:08 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I would like to pointout that Liberty is in Lynchberg, VA and was created by Jerry Falwell.

Falwell, Lynch...berg, any wonder why the policies are the way they are.
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Old 04-01-2004, 05:18 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by kutulu
Then can I form a business that only hires 26-41 year old mexican men without physical disabilities? We have defined certain limits on discrimination. They have been expanded. If people stand up for themselves, they will expand it again.

If you love your job, should you have to find a new one because they won't let you go waterskiing?
I don't know why you used age and ethnicity as a criteria since it's already been posted that those violate current anti-discrimination laws.

Obviously the answer to your question is no.

If you wanted to, however, there isn't anything that I know of barring you from stipulating that you only accept people with Bachelor's degrees, speak Spanish fluently, and can lift 50lbs from a prone position. I suppose that would limit your pool significantly to middle-aged, Mexican men. If it didn't limit it enough to your liking (although I don't understand the utility of your criteria), I suppose you could keep thinking of more requirements until you obtained your desired hiring population.

You last question seems like a non-sequiter. You are comparing a pre-hire requirement to a new demand on an established employee, known health risks (some of which adversely effect others) to an unknown possible risk, and seem to be basing one's ability to retain employment on one's capacity to "love" his or her job.

In any case, I don't believe a worker should have to seek employment if he or she can't waterski. I just don't understand how it fits with the conversation or what I might have typed that led you to believe I would support such a policy.
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Old 04-01-2004, 06:01 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Better yet, Just wait till this young lady needs to have a legal abortion.

Two words: Civil Rights.
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hunnychile is offline  
Old 04-01-2004, 06:20 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Location: the land of milk and honey
I really wish that there was a link to the original article, with further investigation, I would be sure to find out that the girl signed a contract to not smoke, and etc. These are not uncommon in High Schools, they had one at mine, ten years ago.
they are usually for students in extra curricular programs like sports and cheerleading, if she signed it then there's nothing she can do.

I agree with Cynthetiq, if you have a problem with these types of agreements, don't sign one, don't work there, or don't go to school there.
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