moonstrucksoul

this was a topic on the radio today, because apparently it is being brought up again in Congress. because this will affect everyone, our family, our friends, and our children. i thought it belonded in General Discussion.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=38139
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...t_040420155914

this can't possibly be a good idea. for so many reasons. but I am curious to here all of your views

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tritium

This guy was rattling the war-sabre last year and all of his stuff died in committee. I'm not going to sweat the issue too much.

I only noticed last year since his original bill attempted to include women in the draft, which to me, made sense. I've always felt that women can server in the draft as effectively as men, even if they were NOT being pulled into service for front lines duty (whatever that means anymore).

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Seaver

The Draft doesnt work in todays military. It wont pass.

The military currently has a problem with too many people in the ranks and/or trying to sign up. Why would they force people who dont want to go?

It wont pass.

philosopherking

I agree, this won't pass. There's no way that people would let that happen. The way I see it, the fact that there isn't a draft is one of the main differences between the war in Iraq and Vietnam. If people were over there against there will, then the shit would really hit the fan.

SecretMethod70

http://www.endselectiveservice.org/

End Selective Service. Site says it all.

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Lebell

Compulsary service works very well in many modern day countries, including several European ones.

That being said, I have mixed feelings, but probably more positive than negative.

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Mephisto2

Shouldn't this be on the Politics board?


Mr Mephisto

Derwood

Shouldn't he really have said "Shouldn't every US Citizen have to pay the price of our blowhard, quick to act President and his vain attempt to win his father's war?"

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shalafi

Last I heard the Military was against reinstating the draft too. They would much rather have people who WANT to be there.

Gortexfogg

Donald Rumsefield is even against the draft and so are many others. It won't get reinstated. If the military needs more troops, there are other ways to get people to enlist. Also, I don't think a draft would be politically helpful to the Bush campaign...

Averett

All I have to say about this is...

Fuck. That.

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Cynthetiq

I have seen many more positives in my travels of people who served their country for a mandatory period.

I for one have a great appreciation for my country, without service, but there are plenty of others out there who don't even appreciate waking up and breathing.

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analog

Why bother to comment when my thoughts have already been noted?

Nefir

I dunno, lately I've been having thoughts questioning the whole concept of wars (which, if you know me, is rather out of character)... It just seems like the citizens, who have very little to do with the conflict itself, end up having to fight and die for the disagreements of their elected leaders. It just seems.. off.. to me.

Obviously I am against the draft for this reason...

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Mojo_PeiPei

I've always thought that there should be some form of mandatory enlistment to serve your country either military and non, but the draft is a bad idea unless say WWIII is going on.

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Averett

Unfortunatly I don't think we're too far off from this.

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balderdash111

I'm beyond draft age myself, so take this with the obligatory grain of salt...

I never served in the military myself, but I actually don't think it's a bad idea to have some sort of compulsory service. I know some people who live in countries where military service is mandatory and they say it was the greatest experience of their lives (and these were not gung-ho folks going into it, believe me).

The bonding, the discipline, the code of conduct you learn to live by apparently have a major transformative effect on people.

That said, more on point to this thread:

1) We still have a draft in the US, it just hasn't been activated. All men have to register for selective service (i.e., the draft) when they turn 18. I believe all it takes to start calling people up is a presidential decree, but I could be wrong on that. If I'm right, though, then this bill is silly except to the extent it calls for expanding the system to women.

2) As said before, this will never pass. I believe Rangle introduced it to actually build opposition to the war (it's all very fine and good for the professional soldiers to be sent off somewhere - that's their job - but not my little Timmy!)

moonstrucksoul

not in my opinion, it affects everyone,(in America) even those who don't give a shit about politics.

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guthmund

I agree, this is stupid. It's just politcal caterwauling from a knee jerk reactionary. I don't know Mr. Hagel, but I can't believe he's actually serious about this. The military is against it, the administration is against it and more importantly the people seem to be against it. I just can't believe he said this to be taken seriously.

That being said, I think some sort of mandatory service is a fantastic idea. I'm not advocating throwing everybody on the front lines for two years, but rather two years of some sort "civil service" each according to his/her means.

Good with computers? Work on an electronic national voting system. Good with numbers? Help the government balance their budget, lord knows they need the help.

Collectively we bitch about the apathy of the younger voter, we complain about the "uninterest" of the younger generation. I think some sort of mandatory civil service would go a long ways in fixing that.

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Evil Milkman

I don't know. I feel any "service" to the country, whether military or not, should be voluntary. We pay taxes already, the government should be competent enough to serve us.

moonstrucksoul

does the military really need people who don't want to be there?

It certainly wouldn't help the economy, having all those people on the goverment payroll.

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Cynthetiq

Sure it would... they pay taxes on that payroll, and then they go out an buy things... thus paying taxes.

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Fallon

the reason he probably did it was to say to if you want to start a war, there won't be any special people who, because they are rich, can get out of it like there was with Vietnam. This would outrage all of america if it were to pass because no longer would it be a war for those that don't really have any other choice(ie: those that need the money or there are no options really left for them) or the ones that want to join. It would include every little rich kid or kids with parents with connections.
In my opinion, it's more of a statement, in that he knows it will fail, then it is meant as a real action.

crony

I second that. I don't see the need to forcefully send young people out to die like in Vietnam.

animosity

well... i would only be all for mandatory civil service for a year or so... but as far as for war... .well that is another story.

iccky

I think this sums it up. I don't know about Chuck Hegel's motives, but that is definitly when Charles Rangel introduced this in the house awhile ago.

I think its a point that needs to be made. How many people on this thread who said some variation on "fuck that" either supported the war or didn't give a shit one way or another? Does that mean its ok for your country to go to war, but you sure as hell wouldn't go?

War is a serious thing, something that must be the collective decision and burden of all of a nation's citizens. Otherwise, it will be embarked upon too since a small minority will be taking all of the damage from the large majority's decisions. Paying others to do the dirty work (i.e. the current system) doesn't help. it creates a culture where the military begins to feel like "the only true Americans," and that everyone without a military record is a lazy shit (I write this sittin in a towel at noon after sleeping in and surfing the net for hours, so maybe they have a point). It creates a culture where the everyday citizens in a democracy are disconnected from the tough things a nation-state must sometimes do. This is, afterall, what led to the fall of Rome.

This is just my personal pet peeve, but I think this issue is a perfect example of how politics affects everyone. To me, saying "I don't worry about politics" is like saying "I don't clean my bathroom." We live in a democratic society, where decisions about government policy are made colectivley. Which makes the responsibility of understanding and making political decisions the responsibility of every American. Ignore that and you ignore an essential part of your life. The reason American politics are in such a sorry state is because not enough people have been cleaning out their political bathroom.

/end rant, this is probablly a subject for another thread, didn't mean to distract from the draft

Sparhawk

I think mandatory (not necessarily military) service is a great idea, so it seems that I am in the tiny minority on this thread. I also think it is LONG LONG overdue to extend the draft to include women.

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maximusveritas

Yeah, I also like the idea of mandatory service to your country. This would force people to give a damn about issues like whether or not to go to war. Right now, people just don't care since they think their own ass isn't on the line and this makes it much easier for our leaders to engage in unneccesary wars for purely political or ideological reasons.

Polyphobic

Our leaders will still go to war wether we have mandatory service or not. The solution would be to have any politicians that want to go to war fight the other countries politicians. Bring the war to the fools that start it.
The problem with mandatory service in the US is that for a country this size it would be prohibitively expensive. Most countries that do have mandatory service are smaller. Besides that, I would be all for it.

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onetime2

I would prefer the military to remain all volunteer but I have no problem whatsoever with the possibility of a draft. The only question I have is how women could legally be excluded from the process.

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onetime2

How would it be prohibitively expensive?

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Polyphobic

I don't have the figures in front of me. You can either believe me or not. Anyhow, in a country this size every year we have quite a large number of persons every year that would be theoretically entering into this program. Take this number and multiply it by the $$ amount it takes to train a soldier. The resulting dollar amount is quite large. Plus, with our military becoming increasingly sophisticated, training is taking longer and longer.
Anyhow, the articles I have read made sense to me at the time.

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irateplatypus

i think some sort of compulsory civil or security service would be a great thing. We are increasingly coming from different ethnic/social/economic/ideological/political/religious backgrounds... i think it would do great things for our country if we could all have something in common from which to draw from.

that being said, i'm going to soon be an AF officer... i certainly do not want a draft into active duty military service. for the AF at least, we have filled all of our recruiting goals and i know that officer training programs regularly turn down qualified individuals because of high competition for training slots.

congress has put a limit on the number of personnel that can be in a particular branch of service at once... and each branch brushes those numbers on a yearly basis. we've got plenty of people volunteering, and plenty of people staying in. if those numbers aren't enough to fight the war in its current form... then we need to rethink how we're fighting it in the first place.

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Well, if they don't pay those who reinlist, some might consider it slavery. Others might voluntarily do it, but not all. Like *moon* said, it would be wiser to raise the pay of the enlisted....that's great for them and may also drive more to join.


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Pacifier

We have that here in Germany, you can either go to the military for one year or you can "choose" to do civilian service. This usually means you work in a hospital or old people's home

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fuzyfuzer

i don't feer a draft at all even if it went through and i was drafted i know i would be discharged before i saw any duty i just don't accept a person who tries to tell everything i should do if they told me to jump this high i wouldn't try all i would do is say i can't and won't i don't think it would then be long before i ended up with a dishonerable discharge

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noahfor

I hope I get drafted. That will speed up my move to Canada, and maybe my parents will even finance it.

Aletheia

You do realize that if you flee to Canada, they can force you back to the US.

Fire

Way too little public support for this thing to pass- brings back the evil specter of vietnam- and no politico in his right mind wants to be associated with that........

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