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Old 04-26-2004, 10:48 AM   #1 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
in 1984 (Thought Police in 2004)

This, to me, is truly frightening. The artistic merit of drawing Bush as a devil isnt the point to me, but that the secret service will "interview" a 15 year old for producing art that is critical of the leader... this is a truly Orwellian image.

And the really frightening thing to me is that these things happen, and they come out, and people are shocked... but no one stops them, no one stands up and does anything, and piece by piece they take our freedoms away.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/educ...68/detail.html

Quote:

Secret Service Probes Boy's Art Depicting Bush As Devil

POSTED: 10:37 a.m. EDT April 26, 2004

PROSSER, Wash. -- One drawing showed President George W. Bush's head on a stick. Another depicted Bush as a devil launching a missile.

The drawings by a 15-year-old boy in Prosser were enough to prompt some questions from the Secret Service.

Agents questioned the teen after being called by police. The boy's art teacher told school officials about the drawings, and they called police.

The boy was not arrested. The school district has taken disciplinary action but refused to say what it was.
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Old 04-26-2004, 10:53 AM   #2 (permalink)
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You're right that is BS, though the kid should have kept those drawings off school grounds I think.
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Old 04-26-2004, 11:11 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Having the President's head drawn on a stick could be interpreted as a threat. Had they not investigated they would be remiss in their duties especially since the police were involved in it.
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Old 04-26-2004, 11:20 AM   #4 (permalink)
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You can look at it in either one of two ways;

1. Overkill...'nuff said.

or

2. If anything ever came of it, and by that I mean an actual threat to the president by the kid, unlikely as that is, then you have people screaming that "All the signs were there. Just look at his disturbing art work. Why was this not investigated?"

The Secret Service has an obligation, and a duty, to raise a colective eyebrow. I, however, am more interested, or concerned, if you will, as to the "punishment" that was meted out by the school. More Zero-Tollerence?
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Old 04-26-2004, 11:23 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: in 1984 (Thought Police in 2004)

Quote:
Originally posted by Strange Famous
[B]This, to me, is truly frightening. The artistic merit of drawing Bush as a devil isnt the point to me, but that the secret service will "interview" a 15 year old for producing art that is critical of the leader... this is a truly Orwellian image.

And the really frightening thing to me is that these things happen, and they come out, and people are shocked... but no one stops them, no one stands up and does anything, and piece by piece they take our freedoms away.
If you live in Englad, how is it that American liberties take your freedoms away?
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Old 04-26-2004, 11:29 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by onetime2
Having the President's head drawn on a stick could be interpreted as a threat. Had they not investigated they would be remiss in their duties especially since the police were involved in it.
my thoughts exactly. But let's hope that this was the real reason and not like la thought police as StrangeFamous suggested
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Old 04-26-2004, 11:33 AM   #7 (permalink)
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http://archive.aclu.org/news/w050898a.html

So, six years ago that was me (literally). My parents got some lawyers, the school got some lawyers, my record got knocked from 5 day suspension for "terroristic threatening" to three day suspension for "habitual use of profanity in class room assignments" (which is true).
Long story short, the creative abilities of children should not be stunted by people who disagree with what they have to say. This matter seriously should have ended with a short conference between the teacher and the boy's parents. George Bush as the devil, pushing a button to launch a missile... HELLO! Career in political cartoon drawing? Anyone?
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Old 04-26-2004, 11:40 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cynthetiq
If you live in Englad, how is it that American liberties take your freedoms away?
ok this confused me,
my interpretation of what Cyth said:
how is someone who lives in England affected by what the US Secret Service does, your freedoms are not our freedoms.

if someone made a pic of the Queens head on a stick, would the British Secret Service not investigate?
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Old 04-26-2004, 12:24 PM   #9 (permalink)
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This is primarily a story about the most socialistic system in the US. That being the educational system.

"The boy's art teacher told school officials about the drawings, and they called police."

At that point, law enforcement was obligated to execute its prescribed responsibilities.

Nice try. No cigar.
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Old 04-26-2004, 12:41 PM   #10 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
Quote:
Originally posted by moonstrucksoul
ok this confused me,
my interpretation of what Cyth said:
how is someone who lives in England affected by what the US Secret Service does, your freedoms are not our freedoms.

if someone made a pic of the Queens head on a stick, would the British Secret Service not investigate?
I would hope they wouldnt. And because the freedom's of the working class internationally are to me the same thing, when in one of the most advanced countries in the world you see people being investigated simply for thinking or expressing idea's, I find it frightening, especially a country which enshrines freedom of speech.
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Old 04-26-2004, 12:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Yes. As a former art teacher, I saw for myself the severe damage to individual freedom and expressiveness the liberal thought police better known as the Teachers Unions and school administrators impose by dint of their privileged position as holders of power in the socialistic system of education that exists here in the US. It is indeed a tragedy and demonstrates how a tax-run system - an utterly socialized institution - drains every ounce of liberty out of its entrapped occupants while it tends lavishly to every need of its authoritarian oligarchy.
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Old 04-26-2004, 12:57 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strange Famous
I would hope they wouldnt. And because the freedom's of the working class internationally are to me the same thing, when in one of the most advanced countries in the world you see people being investigated simply for thinking or expressing idea's, I find it frightening, especially a country which enshrines freedom of speech.
then you should be championing situations like in Singapore (a previous British Colony) where they cannot watch movies without them being censored. Pornography is non existent.

All movies have to be screened by the government as are magazines and books.

The tought police setup shop in Singapore many years ago and still live there.
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Old 04-26-2004, 01:01 PM   #13 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
The working class are unfree to varying degree's in every nation on earth as far as I can see. I didnt post this story to try and claim that America had the worst human rights or the most overbearing dictatorship in the world, very clearly it hasnt, I think it is very frightening all the same.

I have seen a few articles about children in school be treated as criminals, being given no rights, being tyranised... it is a very worrying trend, and it is no wonder the youth is alienated, and it is no wonder their is a cultural civil war brewing in America (and I dont mean a physical warfare, but that America is being split into two, one side increasingly conservative and overbearing, the other side increasingly hopeless and alienated)
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Old 04-26-2004, 01:06 PM   #14 (permalink)
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which is why I asked you how the rights of americans weigh in on the rights of a britian.

Since you speak that it's frightening, sure I do too. But keep in mind, since history tends to repeat itself, if they did NOT follow up on this issue, and the warning signs were there, people would then say, "why wasn't something done when they had the warning signs?"

so with that in mind, tell me how you see it balancing out?
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Old 04-26-2004, 01:24 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Soooooo, Strange Famous,

I'm confused.

In one post you said it was perfectly ok for Germany to outlaw Nazi speech and to even imprison people for it, but it isn't ok for the Secret Service to just question a 15 yr old about some drawings he made depicting the President with his head on a stick?

It sounds to me as if you want to have your cake and eat it too.
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Old 04-26-2004, 01:50 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strange Famous
I would hope they wouldnt.
oh but they would, wouldn't they
Quote:
I find it frightening, especially a country which enshrines freedom of speech.
free except for one little thing you can't say "i'm gonn kill . . .(u know who)"

Quote:
America is being split into two, one side increasingly conservative and overbearing, the other side increasingly hopeless and alienated
dude. this is America, i don't feel hopeless and alienated. legally, I can be the president someday (if that were my goal). now if i lived in a monarchy, and i wasn't blood royalty, then i might feel hopeless and alienated. do you?
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Old 04-27-2004, 01:35 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Adam:

This discussion among concerned citizens is democracy in action. Remember what Churchill said _ democracy is the worst form of government, it just happens to be better than the others tried to date.

You, my friend, are keeping the spirit of '76 alive and well. A freeman who is willing to stand up for liberty and justice. Well done!

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Old 04-27-2004, 03:39 PM   #18 (permalink)
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First off, they aren't taking American freedoms away, there have always been limitations on free speech. One of the biggest is threatening the president. You can voice your displeasure, you can say you absolutely hate and despise everything he has done while in office. But if you say something to the affect of "I'm going to kill the president." You're in trouble.

I knew a little asshole in school who everyone just hated. Well, one day this asshole went into a political chat room and just raised hell just trying to piss people off. Well, one of the things he said was, "I'm going to kill your precious president." Well, someone from that chatroom sent a transcript to the Secret Service. Not long after he had a Secret Service officer in his house.

The Secret Service takes ALL threats about the president's life seriously.
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Old 04-27-2004, 05:27 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Things like this are indeed double-plus ungood. I can understand the head on a stick one somewhat for threat reasons, but he prolly would've ben narced on for just the Bush devil one in this paranoid climate we live in now. I blame Columbine a lot for this.


I hope Bush leads and long and fruitful life, free of harm...ANYWHERE BUT THE WHITE HOUSE!
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Old 04-27-2004, 07:00 PM   #20 (permalink)
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the kid was just drawing... nothing more than creativity. i draw bad things but that doesnt make me a bad person or make me want to go kill someone. its called art... lets not make it about politics.
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Old 04-27-2004, 07:04 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Holo
I blame Columbine a lot for this.



Somebody gets it.
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Old 04-28-2004, 02:01 AM   #22 (permalink)
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hey i was recently at my highschool to talk to an old teacher and apparently these pictures in the all were from the art teacher himself... there were frogs smoking pot... wtf is with that this is a school.. lol

that kid is just messing around with school stuff... piggy had the conch so he put bushes head on the stick so he coul talk to the thought police
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