City may ban sledding - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cynthetiq · 04-26-2004, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Stung by Suit, Greenwich Weighs Ban on Sledding
By PATRICK HEALY
link

GREENWICH, Conn., April 25 - For years, winters in this wealthy town have been scenes out of a Rockwell painting - snow-draped trees, families skating on frozen ponds and children belly-flopping down hill on sleds.

After losing a $6 million lawsuit stemming from a sledding accident, Greenwich officials have begun to see those images as a winter wonderland of civil liability. Stung by a jury verdict this month, Greenwich is considering banning sledding to protect itself from similar lawsuits.

"Not just sledding," said town selectman Peter Crumbine, "but ice-skating and things like that that are done on town property. If we do this, it'll be with a great deal of reluctance."

Whether it's done with reluctance or Grinch-like glee, conversations with Greenwich residents who were out shopping Sunday suggest that the town officials are facing an, um, uphill battle.

Sledding down the hills and ice-skating on frozen streams and reservoirs are Greenwich traditions that would not be given up easily, people here said.

"What are the kids going to do instead - smoke crack?" asked Lori Light, a resident of nearby Weston, as she went from store to store with her two sons. "They outlaw everything here."

Every winter, people pull toboggans through the streets, skate on the marbled ponds and meet friends at the tops of Greenwich's many hills. Mostly families and young children sled and skate, but teenagers like Chelsey Falloon, 17, and Carrie Lovejoy, 18, said they goaded their friends into a trip up the hills.

"It's swamped," Ms. Falloon said.

The notion to ban sledding, first reported in The Greenwich Time, has its roots on the long slopes of Sleigh Hill outside the West Greenwich Civic Center, and in a January 2000 accident that sent a urologist and his son flying through the air.

The urologist, Nicholas Stroumbakis, and his 4-year-old son were going for one last run after a day of sledding when their plastic sled crashed into a foot-deep drainage ditch at the base of the hill, said Dr. Stroumbakis's lawyer, Stewart M. Casper.

Father and son were thrown from the sled, and Dr. Stroumbakis broke his leg in two places, which kept him from work for five months, Mr. Casper said.

The doctor sued for negligence, claiming the town had created a public nuisance by failing to maintain the ditch, and on April 14, the jury agreed, awarding him $6.3 million. The town, which is challenging the award, would have to pay $500,000 of the verdict, said Mr. Crumbine, the selectman. The remainder would be covered by insurance.

So far, there is no formal proposal to ban sledding, and Mr. Crumbine said he did not know whether the issue would emerge at the next meeting of selectmen. "It's just been talk up to this point," he said.

Though $6 million or so may seem like a hefty sum, Mr. Casper said the town should be thankful that it was not a Fortune 500 chief executive who was laid up for five months.

"They're lucky he was only a highly skilled urologist," Mr. Casper said. "A surgeon doesn't make anywhere near what some of these Greenwich residents make."

and when this man's grandkids say to him,"Grandpa I'm bored..."

He won't be able to say, "Go outside and play tag, baseball, kick the can, hide-n-seek, etc."

moonstrucksoul · 04-26-2004, 12:18 PM

Quote:

The urologist, Nicholas Stroumbakis, and his 4-year-old son were going for one last run after a day of sledding when their plastic sled crashed into a foot-deep drainage ditch at the base of the hill, said Dr. Stroumbakis's lawyer, Stewart M. Casper.

what? he couldn't examine a penis from a wheelchair?

what a fucker, where's the "sled at your own risk" sign when you need one?

water_boy1999 · 04-26-2004, 12:21 PM

And yet another frivilous lawsuit in my opinion. Guy goes out with son, gets hurt, finds someone else to blame except for himself. The city can't protect everyone from every inch of snow covered piece of land in Greenwich. It wasn't the city that made this guy lose control of his sled and hit the drainage ditch. I do feel they guy shouldn't have to pay for med bills, but the city shouldn't be monetarily penalized for doing nothing. The insurance can handle his bills.

quadro2000 · 04-26-2004, 12:31 PM

I can't say that I blame the city for doing this. If people aren't smart enough to realize that going sledding imposes many risks, then of course they're going to be equally as shitty as to sue the town, and what else are they supposed to do? Let everyone sled and then pay through the nose?

I got my ass handed to me on a sled when I was a kid. I never thought of blaming anybody but myself. But then again, I never even thought of blame in the first place.

djtestudo · 04-26-2004, 01:14 PM

My question is, how can they claim they weren't maintaining the ditch, since it's a fucking hole in the ground. Hell, if it wasn't maintained it probably would have been filled in and there would be no problem.

Also, you would think that in the process of sledding the hill the other times they might have noticed things that could affect their motion downhill and stayed away from them. I think the city should take the kid away from the guy for negligent parenting for not noticing the ditch.

Lebell · 04-26-2004, 01:33 PM

Blame the lawyers, the asshat dad and the jury if this passes.

They had to pass a ski law in Colorado that essentially says it's your own damn fault if you hit a tree.

Can you guess why?

moonstrucksoul · 04-26-2004, 01:40 PM

sonny bono, oh no!!!!!

raeanna74 · 04-26-2004, 02:15 PM

If they pass a law saying that you sled at your own risk that's one thing. Passing a law against all sledding on public property, that's stupid.

I blame the judge, lawyer, and jury who apparently thought this man had a case.

On the other hand, if the hill was designated for sledding (as we have a few hills that the city maintains here) and if the ditch was directly at the bottom of the hill and not maintained and buried in snow so that it wasn't visible - well I might not be so hard on blaming the judge and jury.

I mean if you can blame this city for something like this - man hubby coulda gotten a ton of money from our town for not maintaining the shoulder of the road. The lip between the macadam and the gravel was a couple inches and going off that in a bike - well. He had human error and wasn't stupid enough to go and put the blame anywhere other than - its an ACCIDENT: Accidents happen.

Tirian · 04-26-2004, 09:38 PM

I wish I was a judge !!!!

There would be none of this shit in my courtroom. Of course I'd have to make up laws as I go. New ones like "It's your own damn fault for not buying a sled with stearing." Spring for the $20.00 sled and save yourself a broken leg. New ones like "You strap slick skis on your feet and rip into a tree. Open your eyes you moron. "

I can't believe I survived childhood.

tricks · 04-27-2004, 12:51 AM

Blame the jury. Was it a local jury?

I remember sledding down hills with fences at the bottom, into parking lots, sledding down the middle of streets.

What about personal responsibility?

It wasn't my fault....

Harshaw · 04-27-2004, 06:07 AM

The only two times I have ever been knocked unconcious have been because of my own negligence while skiing or sledding. It happenes, if you act like an asshat, asshat things will happen to you.

The doctor had every right to bring this lawsuit, but the jury must have been staffed with a bunch of half-wits.

Gortexfogg · 04-27-2004, 06:11 AM

I wouldn't ban sledding all together, I'd just ban adults from sledding. If a kid sleds into a ditch and gets hurt, they'd have to be messed up pretty bad for parents to sue the city. And all they could really sue for is medical fees. So, no sledding for individuals above the age of 18. I bet it'd work fine.

MSD · 04-27-2004, 06:15 AM

At least it was a town that can aford it wihtout siphoning money out of the education budget, like most towns around here would have to do.

00111000 · 04-27-2004, 09:15 AM

People need to learn how to sled correctly. It's not just going down the hill, it's a damn art form. When I was a kid and would go sledding you knew there was a pretty damn good chance of you getting hurt, but hell...as long as I was sledding I don't think I even cared. Anyway, this guy needs to suck it up and realize that maybe he should have built a jump infront of the ditch or something...I think I would have done that

clifclav · 04-27-2004, 09:51 AM

From the article:
The town, which is challenging the award, would have to pay $500,000 of the verdict, said Mr. Crumbine, the selectman. The remainder would be covered by insurance.

When I become King of the World all articles that in the past said, " Will be paid by insurance." Will be replaced by, " will be paid for by every citizen of the country who has insurance."

America 2030: Only the insurance companies and lawfirms are left and it will not be a fair fight.

04-26-2004, 12:21 PM	#3 (permalink)
water_boy1999 Fly em straight! Location: Above and Beyond	And yet another frivilous lawsuit in my opinion. Guy goes out with son, gets hurt, finds someone else to blame except for himself. The city can't protect everyone from every inch of snow covered piece of land in Greenwich. It wasn't the city that made this guy lose control of his sled and hit the drainage ditch. I do feel they guy shouldn't have to pay for med bills, but the city shouldn't be monetarily penalized for doing nothing. The insurance can handle his bills. __________________ Doh!!!! -Homer Simpson

04-26-2004, 12:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
quadro2000 All Possibility, Made Of Custard Location: New York, NY	I can't say that I blame the city for doing this. If people aren't smart enough to realize that going sledding imposes many risks, then of course they're going to be equally as shitty as to sue the town, and what else are they supposed to do? Let everyone sled and then pay through the nose? I got my ass handed to me on a sled when I was a kid. I never thought of blaming anybody but myself. But then again, I never even thought of blame in the first place. __________________ You have to laugh at yourself...because you'd cry your eyes out if you didn't. - Emily Saliers

04-26-2004, 01:14 PM	#5 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	My question is, how can they claim they weren't maintaining the ditch, since it's a fucking hole in the ground. Hell, if it wasn't maintained it probably would have been filled in and there would be no problem. Also, you would think that in the process of sledding the hill the other times they might have noticed things that could affect their motion downhill and stayed away from them. I think the city should take the kid away from the guy for negligent parenting for not noticing the ditch. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

04-26-2004, 01:33 PM	#6 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Blame the lawyers, the asshat dad and the jury if this passes. They had to pass a ski law in Colorado that essentially says it's your own damn fault if you hit a tree. Can you guess why? __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

04-26-2004, 01:40 PM	#7 (permalink)
moonstrucksoul hovering in the distance Location: the land of milk and honey	sonny bono, oh no!!!!! __________________ no signature required

04-26-2004, 02:15 PM	#8 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	If they pass a law saying that you sled at your own risk that's one thing. Passing a law against all sledding on public property, that's stupid. I blame the judge, lawyer, and jury who apparently thought this man had a case. On the other hand, if the hill was designated for sledding (as we have a few hills that the city maintains here) and if the ditch was directly at the bottom of the hill and not maintained and buried in snow so that it wasn't visible - well I might not be so hard on blaming the judge and jury. I mean if you can blame this city for something like this - man hubby coulda gotten a ton of money from our town for not maintaining the shoulder of the road. The lip between the macadam and the gravel was a couple inches and going off that in a bike - well. He had human error and wasn't stupid enough to go and put the blame anywhere other than - its an ACCIDENT: Accidents happen. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

04-26-2004, 09:38 PM	#9 (permalink)
Tirian Addict Location: Canada	I wish I was a judge !!!! There would be none of this shit in my courtroom. Of course I'd have to make up laws as I go. New ones like "It's your own damn fault for not buying a sled with stearing." Spring for the $20.00 sled and save yourself a broken leg. New ones like "You strap slick skis on your feet and rip into a tree. Open your eyes you moron. " I can't believe I survived childhood.

04-27-2004, 12:51 AM	#10 (permalink)
tricks Crazy	Blame the jury. Was it a local jury? I remember sledding down hills with fences at the bottom, into parking lots, sledding down the middle of streets. What about personal responsibility? It wasn't my fault.... __________________ People Are Stupid. People can be made to believe any lie, either because they want it to be true or because they fear that it is.

04-27-2004, 06:07 AM	#11 (permalink)
Harshaw Is mad at you. Location: Bored in Sacramento	The only two times I have ever been knocked unconcious have been because of my own negligence while skiing or sledding. It happenes, if you act like an asshat, asshat things will happen to you. The doctor had every right to bring this lawsuit, but the jury must have been staffed with a bunch of half-wits. __________________ This too shall pass.

04-27-2004, 06:11 AM	#12 (permalink)
Gortexfogg I and I Location: Stillwater, OK	I wouldn't ban sledding all together, I'd just ban adults from sledding. If a kid sleds into a ditch and gets hurt, they'd have to be messed up pretty bad for parents to sue the city. And all they could really sue for is medical fees. So, no sledding for individuals above the age of 18. I bet it'd work fine.

04-27-2004, 06:15 AM	#13 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	At least it was a town that can aford it wihtout siphoning money out of the education budget, like most towns around here would have to do.

04-27-2004, 09:15 AM	#14 (permalink)
00111000 Psycho Location: Mostly standing in a blue semi-circle	People need to learn how to sled correctly. It's not just going down the hill, it's a damn art form. When I was a kid and would go sledding you knew there was a pretty damn good chance of you getting hurt, but hell...as long as I was sledding I don't think I even cared. Anyway, this guy needs to suck it up and realize that maybe he should have built a jump infront of the ditch or something...I think I would have done that

04-27-2004, 09:51 AM	#15 (permalink)
clifclav absolute relativist Location: D.C.	From the article: The town, which is challenging the award, would have to pay $500,000 of the verdict, said Mr. Crumbine, the selectman. The remainder would be covered by insurance. When I become King of the World all articles that in the past said, " Will be paid by insurance." Will be replaced by, " will be paid for by every citizen of the country who has insurance." America 2030: Only the insurance companies and lawfirms are left and it will not be a fair fight. __________________ Neither rain , nor cold, nor dark of night shall.......ahh whatever, just get me a beer!