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Old 10-08-2004, 06:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Thoughts so far on the presidential debates?

I was just wondering what everyone's feelings were on Bush and Kerry as of Oct. 8, 2004. How have the debates affected your view on voting? Have they changed your vote? Who seems like a better speaker, which candidate has come out on top?

If there are any thoughts you would like to voice on the candidates, here's the forum for you.
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Old 10-08-2004, 06:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Some folks will never let facts get in the way of their opinions so it's likely that in the bitter end of this fight the debates will have little impact on voting decisions.

How...riddle me this bat-person...how can you not have your mind made up already?
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Old 10-08-2004, 08:57 PM   #3 (permalink)
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You make a good pointe. Some peaple no mater what you put infront of the will only suport there political party. I work with some one who thinks if you are not a republican you are a non person.
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Old 10-08-2004, 09:00 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I am an independant but I couldn't stand to see GeeWWW in office another term. Not that I think Kerry is the greatest choice either but in my mind it comes down to the lesser of 2 evils.
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Old 10-08-2004, 09:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I was asleep for last night's debate, but I still refuse to compromise and settle for teh lesser of two evils.
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Old 10-08-2004, 09:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I heard Kerry used to be a lawyer-- Is that true? I know Edwards was.

Here's my thoughts:

Kerry usually has a better flow when he speaks.

I'd rather vote for Bush, but I cant vote...
and I'd rather vote for him because he's consistant in his beliefs(some say he's done some "flip-flopping", but it wouldn't compare to Kerry's floppin).

What really bugs me about Kerry is that he'll criticize Bush for a decision he made, when Kerry previously agreed w/ Bush/voted the same way Bush did or voted against something that Bush was trying to get through and now Kerry is saying ' oh you should've done this..' when he voted against it!!!
That's bullsh!t. He just annoys the crap out of me.

I think Bush did better in both the debates as well, but I know a lot of people feel differently. Oh well, I added my .02
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Old 10-08-2004, 10:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I wish we had better choices to pick from. I guess I will have to vote my pocketbook again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StickODynomite
I'd rather vote for Bush, but I cant vote...
Why can't you vote?
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Old 10-09-2004, 03:29 AM   #8 (permalink)
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It's good to hear the issues discussed. It helps our decisionmaking process. The only problem I have with them is that TV lies. And we believe it.
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Old 10-09-2004, 12:33 PM   #9 (permalink)
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the only problem I had with the debate was.. that I don't like either candidate. I promised I wouldn't get pulled into another politcal debate myself, so that's all I'll say about that
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Old 10-09-2004, 12:41 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I watched the debates thinking to be an informed voter it was something I needed to do...I think I just ended up being a bored voter. I don't want to listen to the candidates saying what they support or that they have "a plan". I want to hear specifics about what they want to do, and not just stastics they use to bash each other.

By the way, was it just me or did Edwards seem to not be that great of a public speaker?
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Old 10-09-2004, 01:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct
I was asleep for last night's debate, but I still refuse to compromise and settle for teh lesser of two evils.
That's a commendable point of view. But I happen to think that the greater of two evils can be sometimes be too evil. There's a tendency to believe that, no matter which party's candidate you vote for, nothing fundamental changes (or at least, not quickly or precipitously). But while Kerry may just be a run-of-the-mill politician, I have serious doubts about Bush's judgment. Not being able to summarize mistakes is a horrible sign. It means you're not open to reality, and are making judgments based primarily on your own preconceptions.

I go to a church in which our last pastor literally believed that she could do no wrong, that she was divinely inspired, and that all who were against her were sent by the forces of darkness. She even had a Cheney-like number two, a personal friend who accompanied her everywher, who would prop her up and tell her that she was completely right and we were all wrong. If you called the pastor on anything she did, she would say that it hadn't happened that way, or that you misunderstood; and then she would tell other parishioners that you were plotting against her, and misrepresent what you said. And of course, because she was wearing a white collar, people tended to defer to her. For a while. It helped that she was one of those people who actually could convince herself that her lies were reality, after a bit.

The church lost more than half its membership before we managed to get her out, and it's still teetering on the brink. So when I hear talk of getting inspiration from God and an inability to admit mistakes, I get really suspicious. And I very concerned that a vote for Bush/Cheney is not simply a vote for semi-corrupt-more-of-the-same, but a vote to continue in office a limited and unbalanced individual who could do serious damage to the country in the next couple of years.

And how did that bad pastor of ours get in, in the first place? She told us she was a person of moderate religious beliefs who wanted to respect all the different sorts of beliefs within our congregation: "a uniter, not a divider." She lied, of course, but in retrospect it's unclear whether she had a firm enough grasp on reality to understand that she was lying.

Last edited by Rodney; 10-09-2004 at 01:17 PM..
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Old 10-09-2004, 02:25 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I watched most of both of them, and I like Bush over Kerry because he does stick to his guns (not a pun) and I like lower taxes and a healthcare without Goverment involment. But the debates some how make me like bush less. Even though I will still vote for him
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Old 10-09-2004, 06:16 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I watched the first debate and part of the VP debate, but skipped the second. I don't think anyone really wins or loses these things. Most of the time they spend attacking each other. And besides they have to agree on the format so niether Bush or Kerry is going to put themselves in a place to be hammered..
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Old 10-09-2004, 08:53 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I think they've actually been pretty even(despite what the media suggests), Kerry seems to be much smoother in his speaking, but his statements dont really go anywhere. He'll drone on for five minutes and not say anything of real meaning. Bush however is much worse at putting his thoughts together, but they get to the point and dont dance around the thruth.
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Old 10-10-2004, 09:27 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StickODynomite
I'd rather vote for Bush, but I cant vote...
and I'd rather vote for him because he's consistant in his beliefs(some say he's done some "flip-flopping", but it wouldn't compare to Kerry's floppin).

I don't get it with some of you people.. I mean its one thing to be consistent about your views but whats the use of being consistantly WRONG! If I thought that the earth was square.. and stuck to that belief no matter what. Would you vote for me as a president?

Really now.. being Consistently WRONG, is no better than the so called "flip flopping". Your actions must tailor to the situation.

Last edited by bluespecv; 10-11-2004 at 12:03 AM..
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Old 10-10-2004, 09:45 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Why is it that a good portion of america now think being stuborn is a good quality?
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Old 10-10-2004, 10:35 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Or rude, for that matter.

How is it that when the President, who was a willing participant in the debates and agreed to the "rules," suddenly jumps up and silences the moderator and his opponent by talking over them, he isn't faulted for being extremely rude?

Instead, the pundits say he's "energetic" and in "fighting form."

I've watched all the debates and even though I don't agree with the policies and practices of this administration, I respected their position and their respective offices. I lost a lot of that respect the other night when the President jumped up and well, for lack of a better phrase, "showed his ass."
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Old 10-11-2004, 04:40 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney
But while Kerry may just be a run-of-the-mill politician, I have serious doubts about Bush's judgment. Not being able to summarize mistakes is a horrible sign. It means you're not open to reality, and are making judgments based primarily on your own preconceptions.
Okay, I take it back. Bush is probably NOT so crazy that he can't admit a mistake. He's just been convinced that he shouldn't. See this link (NY Times, registration required):

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/10/we...tml?oref=login

To summarize:

Quote:
Until sometime early in the summer, President Bush and his advisers sporadically wrestled with a fundamental choice: Was it smarter to go into the final months of the election campaign confessing to considerable error in decisions leading up to the invasion of Iraq, and in early calculations about how best to occupy the country? Or would the president - "not a man given to backward-looking introspection," as one close aide put it - be better off conceding only the smallest errors of judgment, and focusing the electorate on the hope of a bright future for Iraq and the whole Middle East?

Mr. Bush chose the second option. To choose otherwise, one of Mr. Bush's advisers said the other day, would be "to give John Kerry the opening he was waiting for."

But now, in the final 23 days of the campaign, that decision has come to look far riskier than it did in the flush of handing Iraq back to Iraqis. Win or lose, when the history of the 2004 Bush campaign is written, it may turn out that the bet about how to talk about the war will prove pivotal. Mr. Bush held his bet through the presidential debate Friday, declining a questioner's invitation to describe any mistake he had made.

The bet was a mix of political and military calculation, of Mr. Bush's own temperament, and of what proved to be an overly optimistic projection of what Iraq would look like in early October.

By Friday, aides at the White House were talking about the decision in the way Silicon Valley engineers talk about a piece of technology that didn't roll out as planned.

"It's been a really, really bad week," a senior White House official conceded after three successive days in which the news seemed to be eroding the sand under some of the president's justifications for the war, and his explanations of its aftermath.
I feel a little better. At least our president isn't mentally unbalanced. He's just lying furiously and shamelessly to get through the election.

In my mind, the decision not to admit a weakness is a mistake. And it looks like telling the truth and toughing it out might have been the better option, after all. Tt would have also demonstrated honesty and bravery.

Instead, Bush has been striking poses of bravery and strength in the recent debates, without actually being brave or strong. He's just trying to stave off political attacks.
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Old 10-12-2004, 09:19 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I don't like to get into this usually, but one thing that will never cease and disist is the following:

If you like Bush, Bush is winning the debates. If you like Kerry, Kerry is winning the debates.

Crisis averted, terrorists win
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Old 10-12-2004, 03:27 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Old 10-13-2004, 10:19 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Kerry: Better speaker.
Bush: Shouldn't open his mouth so often.
Kerry: Not at all proactive in the debates or his campaign or anything. Just the antithesis of all things Bush.
Bush: Doesn't need everything changed, like Kerry wants.

Neither candidate is good, but Bush actually has a plan. Kerry just wants to get elected.
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Old 10-13-2004, 10:40 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tspikes51
Neither candidate is good, but Bush actually has a plan. Kerry just wants to get elected.
As an outsider looking in on the election, it strikes me that Kerry has a plan, and Bush is trying to limp past his sagging numbers into a second term...
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Old 10-13-2004, 11:00 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I have a suggestion -- LISTEN to the debate tonight on the radio -- then see who you think won.

The ONE consistency so far in the Presidential debates I've noticed -- Kerry WILL NOT directly answer certain questions - he'll dance around it and throw up a smoke screen and just not address the main point of the question.

For example:
The lady asked him how he could assure her that taxpayer money would not be used to pay for abortions.

He went on a 2 minute tirade about people being entitled to their own beliefs on abortion, and that he would stress sex education and awareness.

He never directly addressed the main point of her question.

*BET YOU MISSED IT THOUGH -- I DID HEAR HIM SAY SOMEWHERE IN THAT TIRADE THAT HE THINKS THE US SHOULD PROVIDE CERTAIN CARE & PROCEDURES TO PEOPLE THAT CAN'T AFFORD THEM*

He didn't directly answer her, but disguised his answer with the rest of the tirade -- it appears that he supports federally funded abortions if you want one, but can't afford it......

His own words:
making certain that you don't deny a poor person the right to be able to have whatever the Constitution affords them if they can't afford it otherwise.

From here: http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...pt3/index.html
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Old 10-13-2004, 11:34 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Thoughts, thoughts on the debate. It's like looking at twin mules. They just butt heads and get nowhere. What a waste of time. So, tonight all I can think of is, "SHIT, THE PRESIDENT IS ON EVERY CHANNEL"!

Think I'll just read a book.
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Old 10-13-2004, 03:52 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I think the debates this year are much more influential than the previous 3 (clinton clinton gore), even though there's a pretty small amount of undecided voters for them to influence.

I think Kerry won the debate like almost everyone else, and I thought Bush gained a lot of ground back on the second one and they came out about even. Tonights should be a deciding factor for the small percentage of undecided voters still left out there.

Sadly, I have to choose between the baseball playoffs or a debate...hmm
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Old 10-13-2004, 07:57 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Kerry definetly won the debates but that was to be expected. Bush really isnt a good debater, this fact is pretty much understood by even his strongest supporters. Thus, I felt that the vice president debate was much more interesting as both knew how to argue and dealt with some interesting issues. Anyways, I really don't like both candidates but I guess they'll do.
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