ShaniFaye

Im not "pointing fingers", well kinda I am, but not really...

Once again today I ran across a thread where the initial poster made a thread with some mixed up words, and words not spelled correctly. The people that replied to him basically couldnt do anything but be a spelling nazi's.

My Dave is a functional dyslexic....reads very well but has extreme trouble spelling and typing and those kind of responses are EXACTLY why he wont join TFP. Lucky for him the boards he's on understand that about him (and other members) and dont make a big deal out of it...but I have seen other people post on here with the same kind of problem and the only thing people can seem to say is...get spell checker, learn how to punctuate etc. Well let me mention that its not always that simple and I'll leave it at that.

My question is....Do the people who cant seem to over look that a poster might have that kind of a problem think they dont have any business on a message board? Do you think they shouldnt be allowed to contribute to an online society just because their brain works a little different sometimes? Do the those same people understand how mind numbingly frustrating it is to a person to make a post have have nothing said about it other than its not spelled/puncuated right? Now Im not dumb enuff not to realize that sometimes dyslexia has nothing to do with it....but (for example) there IS one poster on here that no matter when he posts SOMEBODY has to comment on the structure of it and it infuriates me to no end because I KNOW he's dyslexic.

I have seen Dave sit to make a post for 30 minutes for two sentences (on my board) and they STILL come out wrong,no matter what spell checker he used, no matter how many times hes gone over it, (fortunately on my board everyone seems to know such a thing as dyslexia exists and not once do they comment on it).

It must be my mood today...and maybe its because I see what it does to a person when they try to contribute somewhere only to pretty much be told..."hey stupid...learn how to spell/puncuate", but I really wondered whether it ever occurs to people how they might be making another person who is most certainly not stupid, feel?

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

bal8664

I think i just read the post you mentioned and i was appalled at some of the responses, eventually someone tried to help the guy but there were quite a few rude posts. I've only been on this forum for about a month, but from what i've found people generally seem very respectful of each other and that was the last thing i expected to see. I think that anyone has the right to be on any forum, and althoug hat first the post did confuse me, after reading through it twice i figuredo ut what the guy meant, it wasnt that hard.

the_marq

If you are talking about the post I think you are talking about, then the fact is that the original post was unintelligible. IE, no one knew what he was asking. It wasn't as though he was being lambasted for dropping a letter in one word, this isn't FARK after all.

I can't stand it when someone does not take the time to type full words and thoughts into a post and it comes out not making any sense. It shows a complete lack of respect for the person who is going to read your message. As an example; exchanging the word "you" for the letter "U" is wrong, and contributes to the degradation of our language.

Granted, there are people who have legitimate reasons for endlessly misspelling and mis-punctuating in their posts and a little sensitivity would be nice (it usually is). However, at the end of the day, 99% of "bad posts" are just due to the poster's laziness and lack of respect for their reader and the english language.

__________________
The Truth:

Johnny Cash could have kicked Bruce Lee's ass if he wanted to.

#3 in a series

ShaniFaye

Ya'll need to understand thats not the ONLY occurence....its happened MANY times with another poster whom I happen to know in real life...today's little episode just kinda hit me the wrong way.

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Stiltzkin

I always make this same assumption. I never considered that the poster might be dyslexic. Hmm... I will make sure to be careful about this from now on.

__________________
The most important thing in this world is love.

ratbastid

It's really regrettable that here on the Internet, all you've GOT is the words you type. I can't do facial gestures or hand gestures or even spoken language to help me communicate. And thanks for reminding us, Shanni, that there are plenty of people in this world--smart, complete, amazing people--who are fundamentally unable to communicate in written words the way they'd like to.

I confess, when I see a post that's written like a 12-year-old, my first thought isn't "Dyslexic adult who needs my respect and understanding". My first thought is, "Do the mods know about this clearly underage person?"

ShaniFaye

I just wanted to say to the marq that yes I agree with the stupid "shorthand" thats used....that might be find for some people using aim/yahoo or whatever...although it drives me batty...but those werent the kind of people I was talking about

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Nisses

Because 99% of those posts are due to negligence or laziness, and because people around here tend to expect that people do their best to write intelligent and correct posts, it's quite normal to see some behaviour like this.

So for one, if you are dyslectic, you should come to expect a few posts on a thread in the TFP, pointing it out. However, all too often, you'll get a bandwagon effect and it'll just rain pointless posts rehashing the same thing over and over...

The community isn't perfect, far from it. The members do try most of the times I would say, and in the end, it's still a moderator's job to say enough is enough, when a regular reply in the thread won't stop the torrent.

Take a deep breath, suffer the ignorance and smile. It's hard, but even intelligent people can be ignorant. I know I am.

edit: bleh, seems like I'm rehashing what Ratbastid and Stiltzkin said, I guess I type too slowly, 3 posts got added between me typing and me submitting.

__________________
Moderation should be moderately moderated.

ShaniFaye

Nisses...do you have any idea how embarrasing it is for a dyslexic sometimes? Do you have any idea what its like to know that every time you make a post you are going to have to "expect" to be told you're "stupid or lazy"?

All I'm trying to do is let people who may not understand what they are doing know that it has a really adverse affect.

To tell someone to just expect it is not the answer. They have to over come enough as it is.

I wonder if Einstein would encounter this if he lived in today's world?

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Nisses

What would you rather see happen then? Add a tag to a poster's account saying "dyslexic" ?

I would think that would cause more embarasment. I'm not saying it's right, what I *am* saying, is that you should be realistic. All a person sees of another person, is the words he has typed. Nothing else. So that's what he uses as a basis to make a judgement on it. And if he encounters the kind of spelling-mistakes he has seen 30 times before, where those 30 times it was out of negligence or laziness, he's gonna assume the same thing the 31st time.

So yes, you can be realistic and know it's bound to happen. And yes, Einstein would encounter this very thing if he posted with relative anonymity on this forum.

edit again:
this of course should only work for new posters, since after a few posts, people do start to form an image of somebody based on their history. Your anonymity starts to somewhat fade at that point.

__________________
Moderation should be moderately moderated.

Bill O'Rights

Well, ShaniFaye, I think that you've given us all something to think about. I know that I'm guilty of it. Dyslexia's never crossed my mind. Thanks. I, for one, will try to be a little more...understanding?

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

thesupermikey

I am dyslexic and I have spent a goodly portion on the 23 years of my life working through it. When I was in 2nd grade my teacher wanted me taken out of class in put in with the mentally and physically challenged kids. She told my parents this because she did not have the time to teach. My parents fought all year with this wicked woman. When I got to the 3rd grade my teacher recommended getting a tutor to help me work through my issues. It was not until I started using computer in 6th grade that things started to get better. I learned how to type (the wrong way) fairly well. It is still a daily struggle to read and write. I write this in Office just so I have spell checker.

It can be really hard for dyslexic. While you calm that 99% of bad posts are because the poster is lazy is all well and good….85% of all statistics are made up on the stop. I have no dout that some posts are due to laziness. However, many people are unable to find there own mistakes when proof reading something they wrote. They know what they meant to say; so when they reread something they wrote they are likely to make mistakes.

__________________
If you are not outraged than you are not paying attention!

"Reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert

ShaniFaye

All I would like to see happen is for people to see a post and not IMMEDIATELY think they need to be that person's personal post editor. I know its because its something in my life that it irritates me a little more than it would another person who doesnt live with it day and day out, but to be quite honest it irriated me before I even knew Dave because I was aware of it and what it was...heck even as smart as he is he was embarrased to talk to me about it because he thought I would look down on him....if you take the time to educate yourself its very obvious when you're dealing with someone that has a form of dyslexia...so it comforted Dave a little to know that I knew from the first time we talked online that he had that problem and I still went out with him anyway

As some people have said already...it never occured to them....thats all I was trying to do...make people aware.

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

denim

If a post is impossible to understand, people will say that. This is a written medium, so clear writing is strongly preferred.

ShaniFaye

Dave does the same thing...only problem is you can have misspelled the word you were trying to use but it spelled another word correctly so it doesnt catch it. Ha ha that happens to me all the time

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Nisses

Totally agreed, taking in a different POV than your established one, is always a good thing.

That's what I meant though, you can tell when a person has dyslexia when you are talking to them - OK, I probably couldn't, since I haven't educated myself on it. But after having read 1 post, I would think it kind of hard. (Sorry, since I don't know the post you speak of, I can only assume it was one of the poster's very first.)

As to why people jump on the occasion to correct somebody's spelling when the post is still coherent and clear... Guess that says more about the corrector than the correctee.

grrrrr... another edit
thesupermikey: That, I think we are all a victim off... When you wrote something, it *is* hard to find the errors.

__________________
Moderation should be moderately moderated.

water_boy1999

I don't know about the rest of you, but I think I can tell the difference between dyslexia and an unintelligible poster. I have a slight case of it myself but mine tends to be more verbal than written. Rarely too. What gets me is the spelling and grammar nazis who berate someone's post, but their post has multiple errors as well. I think everyone needs to step back a little bit and realize not everyone is as smart as "you". This is not the MENSA Project, it is the TFProject. People come from all over the world to express their thoughts and feelings and they all come from different backgrounds, education levels and cultures. Lighten up people.

__________________
Doh!!!!


-Homer Simpson

Bill O'Rights

Well put. I think that there is a lot of wisdom imparted in those few sentences, and something that each of us can take away and put to use.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Redlemon

Count me in among the newly-educated. Thanks very much, Shani.

__________________
I can't read your signature. Sorry.

kutulu

Message boards are not termt papers that are graded and handed back. They are a way to convey your thoughts and feelings to other people. If the spelling and grammar nazis are half as smart as they think they are then they can figure out what the poster is trying to say. I don't care if it bothers you. Nobody forces you to read or reply to a post with bad grammar.

kutulu

Another thing, can we get a link to the thread under discussion? Why can't we just be direct about the situation instead of beating around the bush?

ShaniFaye

Who is beating around the bush? I thought I was most direct in what I said...I didnt not include a link a thread because its not the only instance...if it had been I wouldnt have felt a need to say something. I felt no need to "single" out TODAY'S example, that would not be fair to those involved, I felt the need to single out the fact that it DOES happen.

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

kutulu

Fair enough. I just thought it would be nice to see examples of what was going on. I read a lot of threads and I don't see this happen much here as opposed to other boards.

TheBrit

I get this often with my handwriting. I'm severly dyslexic and dyspraxic and it manifests itself in my organisational skills and handwriting. I'm told "well, if you can't write well, you should practice more." They don't seem to understand that I could try for years on end, and never produce good results... It's like breaking someone's legs and telling them that they should try to walk and not expect any help.

skier

I've never really understood "grammer nazism", so maybe i'm way off base here- I personally think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Sure mispelling words will detract from the strength of your argument, but for me at least if the message sent is legible and the composition is good, who cares if some words are spelled wrong or even backwards?

__________________
"Asking a bomb squad if an old bomb is still "real" is not the best thing to do if you want to save it." - denim

ShaniFaye

my feelings exactly skier

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Paul67

I made a very good living for 40 years as a professional writer (technical). I've never been paid a dime for my typing ability. My attitude toward typographical perfection is -=-the heck with it! That is, if I mispell something on a board such as this, or have a slip in grammar, I'm not about to change it if the message still shows the meaning I am trying to convey. I've got more important uses for my time.
But if the meaning has become uninteligible, that's another story. I guess I would expect that all messages here would be at least intelligible, but then again, if dyslexia is so severe for someone that they don't even know one of their messages is misleading or totally meaningless, who am I to object.
I would just move on.

Slavakion

I've actually defended someone on another message board for less-than perfect spelling. Someone was flipping out on this guy, who wasn't even a native English speaker. It was over a couple of stupid things, like a syntax error and a dropped e. The angry guy's rationale? The foreign poster should have posted in fluent English because his signature was perfect.

So I proceeded to rip apart the angry poster's grammar. He never responded to that one...

I think the problem is that most people assume that if someone types/spells incorrectly, it's because he/she's being lazy. We shouldn't assume that, but how often do you see that kind of crap? Too often. My point? Don't be a grammar nazi until you at least know the poster well enough that he'd take your criticism well.

*Nikki*

I myself really wish that Dave would join. You are such a great contribution here that I would love to also meet your other half.

Unfortunately we have no idea who is making posts until we truely get to know that person. Maybe if someone was Dyslexic they could come forward and say so. I don't think that it is something to be ashamed about. It is not like the person can control it.

Also there are just some people out there who don't give a shit about spelling or typing correctly and once again there is nothing that can be done about that.

The most common association with someone who spells and types incorrectly here amoung us Mods is an underage person. Until we know otherwise a lot of us assume things. Just like people assume that because someones user name is something like "KellyC" that they must be a girl.

I guess the lesson here is never to assume unless you have all the facts.

kutulu

Jesus, how long did it take you to type a whole post backwards? And why did you type this backwards? To prove a point?

ShaniFaye

I dont think its anything to be ashamed of either...hell Im dyslexic with numbers lol great thing for someone with an accounting degree huh? But, sometimes people are afraid of appearing dumb....I know many people that have been turned off of message boards as a whole because they get accused of being lazy or stupid (and I meant across the internet....not specifically here) because of the way they type or spell....I was just reading the Americans use of then, than and the replies made there just about sum up they way they feel people feel about them...its really sad because I have yet, in my life, to meet a stupid dyslexic person.

I told him I made this post today....maybe after I show him some responses he'll consider getting his feet wet again.

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

*Nikki*

Stupid crap like typing things like that on purpose, will not be tolerated here. This is an adult discussion, if you can't act like an adult your ass will be kicked out.

Now, carry on.

martinguerre

i think it's something we could all do a better job with. i know i've snapped at spelling stuff when i see a generally weak arguement. but it's shitty vice to keep, and i ought to do better.

esp. for folks who's first language isnt' English, this isn't always a very welcoming place. it can be frustrating to try to communicate past those barriers, but it's discouraging to see folks, even some of the folks running the place, make it an issue that is explicitly blaming the poster.

__________________
For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life.

-John 3:16

flstf

Complaining about spelling seems to be a weapon of last resort to some people when they perceive they are losing a debate. I haven't witnessed that much of it during the short time I've been here though. I always cringe when someone does it until I figure out that they have probably just fired their last rounds, LOL.

kutulu

I tend to avoid it but I have done it just to be an ass on other message boards. However, it was always in response to flames made by that person. If you are going to flame, your shit better be tight because I'll jump on whatever I can.

sadistikdreams

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=27698
There's proof that it's not that hard to read something that's misspelled.

__________________
"Besides the noble art of getting things done, there is the noble art of leaving things undone.
The wisdom of life consists in the elimination of non-essentials."
-Lin Yutang

hearts, by d.a.

rfra3645

wow.... as i read this i cant help but think about myself....

i am verry fluent in poken english but realy i cant type and spell my words out verry good at all...


in a thread i was invloved with earlier this week i claimed not to be a user of" english" sarcasticly "ha haing" away my mistakes after they were brought up.

i know im not perfect ha...ha....not even close.. really when it comes to the pc i suck...

thats horrible for me i use it sevral hours aday..

if i post on here a "big" post or somthing i try to runit thru outlook's dictopary and gramer check i find that verry helpfull...

but i dont know if im dislexic or not i never thougt of that i guess that would be a really great explanation...i dont htink of myself as stupid but... i just have a really tough time..

i will say it here


sorry to all who cant read my stuff


if you cant read it just pass it up.. its not that imoprtant anyway....

__________________
this post is a natural product made from recycled electrons.
the slight variations in spelling, grammar and punctuation
enhance its individual character and individuality and are
in no way to be considered flaws or defects.


if you cant read my post i dont want to hear about it move on. thanks

gondath

I try to be gentle on people who do not speak English as a native language or towards people who may be dyslexic. Everyone else is fair game. I can ignore one or two mistakes but consistent or numerous problems need to be pointed out. This isn't exactly a chat room where people type in real time. You have time to make a legible post, and your words are all you have to express yourself. Spelling and grammar are the foundation of your expressions. I don't feel sorry for those who get reamed for laziness rather than for having a legitimate medical condition or from cultural differences.

Jonsgirl

Let me say that I agree with you. People do overreact at times, and it's not fair to people who have legitimate problems. I honestly have sympathy for Dave and everyone who's ridiculed on boards like these for thier problems. We really should not judge others until we know them.
That being said...
I hate to have to say it but, so what if it's not fair? Life is not fair. If he doesn't want to be judged on his typing abilities on an bulletin board, then he should put something in his signature. I know that's probably embarrasing, but is it worse than being the object of the grammer nazi's hate?Or cutting yourself off from a whole community? And as he becomes known on the boards, he can remove the 'disclaimer.' After a while he'll only have to worry about the no0bs jumping on his posts and we can, in turn, jump to his defense.
Dyslexia is a MINORITY. There is a reason that this not the first thing that people think of when we see poorly written posts.
I get mad at people who park in hadicap parking spaces unless I see that they have a special plate or tag. Why are dsylexic people spared that? Oh, they're not. EVERYONE has to make allowances to get along in soceity. Why are dsylexic people spared that? Oh, they're not.
I'm sure that Dave (and others) is a good person, intelligent, and over the age of 5, and as such he should realize that people are cruel. I'm sorry. We shouldn't be this way, but we are. As an intelligent adult who realizes this, he should make some concessions. No, he really *shouldn't* have to, but.... we don't live in an utopian society, so there it is.
I'm sorry if I seem harsh. I respect your opinion, and your right to be upset over this, and think that if we lived in a perfect world, you'd be right.

__________________
Someday, someone will best me.
But it won't be today, and it won't be you.

ratbastid

Actually, you said just about exactly the opposite of what I said.