In America? - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

tropple · 12-15-2004, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

tropple:
i was referring to this:

/snip

however, what you seemed to be saying was that if you were not socially authorized--if you were not already assimilated as "the person who dissents" into a normally operational cultural space--and thereby perhaps trivialized---you should make nice. that would perhaps make sense if behind all this, unspoken, worked the assumption that cultural markets are rational and that the best stuff being produced at any given time is somehow assimilated into them. but this assumption is manifestly false---just look around.

Well, not exactly. The point was not that a dissenter must be "approved," but that a person making a living from the marketplace must be acceptable to that market, or in this case the market's owner. It's an economic consideration... That's why boycotts and letters to advertisers over programming content are usually effective.

The point is that if you are independent you are no longer subject to the whims of anyone else to pay the rent and buy the groceries, hence the mention of trust fund kiddies and the rich.

(For the record, I am not a bush supporter. None of parties managed field a candidate I liked.)

roachboy · 12-15-2004, 11:20 AM

hope that nothing i said indicated i understood you to be a bush supporter--if i did, i retract it, as it did not cross my mind either way.

what i objected to (maybe read into, i dont know) your post was extending the obvious questions of economic rationality (how one gets over in the "marketplace" of cultural goods, if one does) to prescriptions about production as such. on the other hadn, the bit about the "text of time" was obviously problematic, particularly if you are yourself going to shift into something like a sociological understanding of how cultural production is regulated (by saying that one must be authorized or made acceptable as the poster producer for matters related to dissent, for example).

later on, it got entangled with questions of "responsibility" (not from you...rather from artelevision) which pushed the matter into yet more nebulous space....

tommylee02 · 12-16-2004, 04:53 PM

As an artist I think that is the lamest thing I ever heard, much like Duchamp's Nude Descending a Staircase, it cause uproar. Duchamp went on to continue a great career in art. What better than to get this much publicity for free? To those of you that think we live in the free-est country in the world...travel. You will see that we really don't. We just live in a country in the world. Sure, there are some where you will be killed for actions like a monkey-president painting, but there are a lot more where you won't. Sad that our constitution is only wins when the stronger man flexes it.

12-15-2004, 11:20 AM	#42 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	hope that nothing i said indicated i understood you to be a bush supporter--if i did, i retract it, as it did not cross my mind either way. what i objected to (maybe read into, i dont know) your post was extending the obvious questions of economic rationality (how one gets over in the "marketplace" of cultural goods, if one does) to prescriptions about production as such. on the other hadn, the bit about the "text of time" was obviously problematic, particularly if you are yourself going to shift into something like a sociological understanding of how cultural production is regulated (by saying that one must be authorized or made acceptable as the poster producer for matters related to dissent, for example). later on, it got entangled with questions of "responsibility" (not from you...rather from artelevision) which pushed the matter into yet more nebulous space.... __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

12-16-2004, 04:53 PM	#43 (permalink)
tommylee02 Tilted	As an artist I think that is the lamest thing I ever heard, much like Duchamp's Nude Descending a Staircase, it cause uproar. Duchamp went on to continue a great career in art. What better than to get this much publicity for free? To those of you that think we live in the free-est country in the world...travel. You will see that we really don't. We just live in a country in the world. Sure, there are some where you will be killed for actions like a monkey-president painting, but there are a lot more where you won't. Sad that our constitution is only wins when the stronger man flexes it.