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Old 01-24-2005, 03:01 AM   #1 (permalink)
Christian guys need to stop being wussy men

Movies like "Braveheart" and "Legends of the Fall" are on the viewing list for men in a growing Christian movement that calls for them to throw off their "nice guy" personas and emulate warriors.

The book which inspired the movement, John Eldredge's "Wild at Heart," has already sold 1.5 million copies in English and been translated into 16 languages, most recently Korean.

Eldredge believes many Christian men have become bored, "really nice guys" and invites them to rediscover passion by viewing their life's mission as having a battle to fight, an adventure to live and a beauty to rescue.

"The modern era has brought up immense conveniences but at what price. The human heart is desperate for something more than a quicker serving of popcorn," Eldredge said in a recent interview.

Eldredge calls on men to be prepared to take risks and rediscover their dreams but does not provide a specific route to find, for example, an adventure to live. Career, marriage and family become heroic quests rather than chains which bind.

He focuses on how men can become less passive and "engage" those around them, particularly their wives and children.

"The guy who sits in front of the television is unengaged. That man is a bad man. They (children) need engagement whether it is playing on the floor with your 1-year-old or tougher games when they are 15 (years old)," he said.
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Old 01-24-2005, 03:11 AM   #2 (permalink)
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What do you think about this subject?

Please do more than just copy and paste when starting a thread.
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Old 01-24-2005, 06:15 AM   #3 (permalink)
some interesting reviews at Amazon about this book. "Polarizing" sounds about right. I'm tempted to pick up the audio CD and throw it on my iPod.

The topic sounds accurate, if dated.

I like these calm little moments before the storm. It reminds me of Beethoven. Can you hear it? It's like when you put your head to the grass and you can hear the growin' and you can hear the insects. Do you like Beethoven ?

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Old 01-24-2005, 07:50 AM   #4 (permalink)
What's so wrong with there being "really nice guys" out there? I fail to see the significance of all men not being "warriors," oh well.
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:11 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by theusername
What's so wrong with there being "really nice guys" out there? I fail to see the significance of all men not being "warriors," oh well.
I am lost too, How is playing with your one year old being a warrior. Isn't that a nice guy, spending time with his kids instead of out partying and getting into fights? That would be a warrior right, a fighter?
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:24 AM   #6 (permalink)
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One ironic thing I noticed here. Doesn't " Movies like "Braveheart" and "Legends of the Fall" are on the viewing list for men in a growing Christian movement..." followed by " 'The guy who sits in front of the television is unengaged...' " sound a little contradictory?? The suggestion to watch these movies is counterproductive.

It's a good goal they're encouraging. Definately not the best means to reach that end. NOT well thought out.
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:29 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I don't understand why all of a sudden they need to be "warriors". What are they trying to fight? Christian conservatives control everything right now.
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:37 AM   #8 (permalink)
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OMG we are living in a theocracy!
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Old 01-24-2005, 09:16 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Um...I don't get it. I fail to see how "having a passion" and "being a nice guy" are mutually exclusive. Maybe if he phrased it differently - instead of "nice guy" you could say "lazy self-absorbed slug" and THAT would make sense. But I don't see why this would just apply to Christians - I think it would apply to 90% of the population, myself included.

Sounds like it's trying to hop on the "men's movement" bandwagon...about 15 years too late, and poorly executed. Guess I'd have to read the whole book to get the full effect of the argument, but I have some popcorn to pop and some sinful tv to watch.
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Old 01-24-2005, 09:21 AM   #10 (permalink)
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The thing everyone needs to understand is that passive aggressive emotionally manipulative men have claimed the title "nice guy" as their own. There is nothing wrong with being a nice guy. There is something wrong when you think not being a complete asshole is the only prerequisite for nice guy status.
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Old 01-24-2005, 12:08 PM   #11 (permalink)
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well... I am an extremely reserved person, I usually use my intelligence to fight my own battles, but if someone wants to fight me, I'll stand up for myself, along with others I care about. I'd rather be reserved because I have more fun than just "being a warrior" and going out and doing stupid stuff... but i think that "warrior" and "nice guy" needs to be better defined. I think the nice guy as said before me, would be the guy who plays with his kids, instead of sitting in front of the boob-tube. I don't know, its like people want to have a good vs. evil kind of thing in daily life, everyone wants to be good and anything they aren't MIGHT be considered evil. C'est la vie.
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Old 01-24-2005, 12:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
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i think one of the problems that this might be trying to address is a perception/reality that certain strains of evangelic Christianity produce men who are very intent on doing the right thing, but don't always have a lot of risk taking behavior. this in turn presents a challenge to traditional gender roles, especially when women have to ask men out, etc.. www.boundless.org (Focus on the Family's site for college age folks) has some good articles on the subject. Their objective is of course to restore "traditional" gender values, but on the way they describe the issue well.

Balancing risk taking and prudence is always a good idea...not having seen this program on the ground i won't comment on if it does a good job of that.
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Old 01-24-2005, 12:17 PM   #13 (permalink)
No need to bring the Oak into this one... bummer that this wasnt about some sort of "Arnold Schwarzenegger teaches religions of the world" book. because THAT i would buy.
Old 01-24-2005, 02:07 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Yeah. That's what's wrong with the world today. There are simply far to many nice guys on this planet.
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Old 01-24-2005, 02:26 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Wild At Heart by John Eldredge isn't about being a "christian wuss" it's about finding the passion, the love, the sense of adventure in your life that should be there. John isn't saying that being a nice guy is the wrong way to go about things, he's saying that men are being forced into being the "Nice Guy".

Some men are happy with their lives as the good guys. He is just pointing out that all christian men are being forced into this now and that they shouldn't have to be. That those who are not content with this should find what they need... and not settle for it.
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Old 01-24-2005, 02:39 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Old 01-24-2005, 02:59 PM   #17 (permalink)
Originally Posted by thinktank
..."Arnold Schwarzenegger teaches religions of the world" book....
Imagine if he did his own audio adaptation of the same book....the very thought of this makes me snort soda out of my nose.

"now leese-uhn, eye ham gohink too tell ewe uhbowt jeesews. leese-uhn too mee nowe...."

I like these calm little moments before the storm. It reminds me of Beethoven. Can you hear it? It's like when you put your head to the grass and you can hear the growin' and you can hear the insects. Do you like Beethoven ?

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Old 01-24-2005, 03:06 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by clavus
"Honey, I was going to fix the car and mow the lawn, but I think I'll strap on a broadsword and wrest the Holy Land from the infidels instead."
Now that's funny

Can't we be a nice guy and a warrior as well? I like to think of myself as a warrior (metaphorically speaking of course). There is nothing that says that we can't be tender and loving. But if the cause is right. To strap on a sword (again metaphorically speaking) and fight for something we believe in.
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The other is for housing prisoners.
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Old 01-24-2005, 03:47 PM   #19 (permalink)
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They are just trying to get people ready for the wave of the Crusades. The Bible thumpers did give Bush a mandate after all.
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Old 01-24-2005, 04:15 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I guess some people just need to be macho just to assert their masculinity...
I don't really feel that need...being a nice guy has been good for me...
A damn dirty hippie without the dirty part....
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Old 01-24-2005, 09:16 PM   #21 (permalink)
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---we just buried the tenth nice guy who went off to be a warrior in a distant land...man, I hope that was the last one to come home that way from Iraq....
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Old 01-25-2005, 05:26 PM   #22 (permalink)
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There's a distinction between guys who are nice and "Nice Guys". The author of the book is classifying "Nice Guys" as the doormat/wallflower types who sit back and watch their lives happen around them without having any of the direction to make themselves feel like what they are doing is important.

This guy is just one of a fairly new breed of sociologists that are arguing that American culture is effemizing its men. Especially in Christian culture, where the virtues of humility and compassion are given primacy, it's easy for men to be lulled into suppressing the urges to build and conquer that have motivated most of history.

He's saying that there isn't anything wrong with being a strong, assertive, driven man. He isn't saying that there's anything wrong with being nice. The very problem he's addressing is the current social misconception that to be 'nice' is to be spineless and submissive.
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Old 01-26-2005, 11:31 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Having read most of the book, I really disliked what Eldridge said about women: we don't want to be independant but have control issues, we do want to be rescued.
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Old 01-27-2005, 06:14 PM   #24 (permalink)
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warrior and nice guy are not mutually exclusive... I consider myself both. Just cherish who and what you have, and protect it, and you're all good.
Men are'nt men like they were 60 years ago tho, at least thats how I see it. Do you think we could pull off a invasion of France with the young men today? I would surely hope so, but it doesn't seem likely, but to be fair, no one thought we could do that back then either, but we did. The tradition of teaching young men the, I dunno even know how to put it, the nature of the world mebbe and how to deal with it, seems to be evaporating quickly...

no one seems to consider it important to teach their son how to shoot a firearm anymore, mebbe its just me, but how can you in good conscience have a son and not teach him how to properly utilize a rifle? Why are kids so molly coddled, and encouraged to find a third party whenever they encounter any sort of trouble with one of their peers? My dad was the type who would just kinda raise his eyebrow at me when I complained about whoever picking on me or whatever, I was encouraged to handle things myself however I felt was necessary. I think that's where my confidence comes from today...

bottom line is, in todays society no one thinks ANYTHING is worth fighting over, and thats just not true. Theres lots of stuff worth fighting, killing, and dying for. Mebbe its just our society slowly imploding, mebbe its the governments 1984 aspirations, I dunno. But I'll tell you this, the day that we no longer have men ready and willing to do violence on all our behalf is the day we all start speaking russian, or whatever language whoever wants to obliterate us at the time speaks

edit: and this is not a problem with christian men, its a problem with most american men. we, in general, just don't have any teeth anymore
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