rant.... about university - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

cierah · 03-01-2005, 09:29 AM

I'm a university student. I was just in a PolSt class in which the ppl in the class continually said that the public is stupid, uneducated, uniformed and that is the reason why they did not vote. It makes me mad when upper-middle class white folks, who have never had to work a day in their life say, (and one actually did) that gas attendents are stupid and backwards. Once I have a degree I will be in the top 15% of the Canadian population in terms of education but not in terms of intelligence. Of course, when you call them on it, like I did, they protest and claim that the public is ill informed not stupid but when you listen, I mean really listen, to their comments they are saying that the public is stupid. They are just elite, middle-class wasps. Whatever. It makes me mad. There is great pride and self-accomplishment that can be had in a career that isn't university. They think that university is the only way to go if you want a career or even a fullfilling life. It really makes me mad. Thanks. I feel better after my rant!

warrrreagl · 03-01-2005, 09:53 AM

Speaking as a college faculty member, this sounds like the usual confusion between education and intelligence.

For example, Americans like to comfort themselves by believing that highly educated people were the ones responsible for the protests leading to the collapse of the Vietnam War because it was a moral imperative. We usually believe that the uneducated masses were more supportive of the War because they were employed by factories that benefitted from the war effort.

However, Gallup Polls from the early 70's kept showing that the numbers were actually reversed: the majority of those expressing discouragement in the Vietnam War were the groups without a college education, and the people who'd been to college were much more supportive than the other groups.

When I ask my own college students to explain this disparity, they usually reverse course and decide that the uneducated groups were opposed to the war because they were more likely to get drafted. I've never had a single college student tell me that the uneducated people opposed the Vietnam War because it was a moral imperative.

To me, THAT speaks volumes...

Quote:

Gallup Poll conducted from January 8-11, 1971.

Question:
Q17 A PROPOSAL HAS BEEN MADE IN CONGRESS TO REQUIRE THE UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT TO BRING HOME ALL UNITED STATES TROOPS FROM VIETNAM BEFORE THE
END OF THIS YEAR (1971). WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE YOUR CONGRESSMAN VOTE FOR OR
AGAINST THIS PROPOSAL?

Responses:
VOTE FOR 73%
AGAINST 20
NO OPINION 7

Survey Organization: Gallup Organization
Population: NATIONAL ADULT
Population Size: 1502
Interview method: PERSONAL
Beginning date: JAN 8, 1971 Ending date: JAN 11, 1971
Source Document: Gallup Poll--Aipo
Date of Source Document: JAN 11, 1971

College Educated, Opposed to the War - 60%
College Educated, Supportive of the War - 40%

High School Educated, Opposed to the War - 75%
High School Educated, Supportive of the War - 25%

Grade School Educated, Opposed to the War - 80%
Grade School Educated, Supportive of the War - 20%

frogza · 03-01-2005, 10:15 AM

Due to the nature of averages, we can deduce that half the population is of below average intelligence. Even though driving on the freeway may inspire us to say most are in fact below average.

By the same token, half would be above average. If we look at the statistics we find that much more than half of the people are not rich. Therefore, many of the poor are of above average intelligence.

It's true that people who lack the experience of associating with a broader cross section of society, usually feel that the one they belong to is superior to the others. Each group finds a way to say they are better than the other groups. Some may say they are smarter, some more honest, some better workers etc. The fact of the matter is, in each segment of society from the richest to the poorest, we will find the full spectrum of intelligence and moralality.

Sage · 03-01-2005, 03:08 PM

College students, in general, think they know everything till they take a few philosophy and meditation courses. Then they chill the fuck out. I know- been there done that

hunnychile · 03-01-2005, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage

College students, in general, think they know everything till they take a few philosophy and meditation courses. Then they chill the fuck out. I know- been there done that

And it's amusing how different students all think after they have actually worked for a living for 5 or 10 years...all theories change and then it all becomes Pavlovian.

guthmund · 03-01-2005, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage

College students, in general, think they know everything till they take a few philosophy and meditation courses. Then they chill the fuck out. I know- been there done that

Not from my experience. Afterwards they seem to be more smug because they "get" what life's all about and everybody else has no fucking clue.

frogza is absolutely right. Ignorance is equal opportunity affliction.

pinoychink790 · 03-01-2005, 09:51 PM

these college students fail to realize that the only way to go in life is the way of the free french fries.

rat · 03-02-2005, 12:18 AM

you'll also find that the majority of adolescents and even people into their mid-20s hold rather strongly to the beliefs and political views of their parents, as they've been reared under them and surrounded by them for well nigh 2+ decades of life. having gone to a "white upper-middle class" high school, i can honestly say that a solid percentage of us worked and a larger percentage didn't. but it was truly alarming how closely most student's political ideals were molded on their parents'--or what they deemed were their parents'--ideals. just about as true here at Texas A&M University, which isn't that surprising.

cierah · 03-02-2005, 05:57 AM

[QUOTE=warrrreagl]Speaking as a college faculty member, this sounds like the usual confusion between education and intelligence. [QUOTE]

I think that sums up the problem. Ppl automatically equate an education with intelligence. I know that I would rather have some of the complelty uneducated ppl over for lunch than I would some of my proffs.

BigBen · 03-03-2005, 07:58 AM

University changed my life. I didn't just learn, I learned how to learn!!

Yes, some of the WASPS who have never looked through the rabbit hole will go through their degree program and remain ignorant to what it means. How many times have you walked down the hall and heard the discussion of how drunk the speaker got on the weekend, or where they are going for reading week?

A Warrant officer told me once, "Rank, Education, Intelligence and Respect have a correlation of zero..." It is one of my mantras.

How many times has a stupid person been in charge of me because of rank? How many times has ignorant asshole tell me the way things are because of a piece of pretty paper hanging on the wall?
I have respect for the guy who shows up, regardless of weather or terrain, and puts 100% towards the mission, because that is what is needed. You can store your rank and pedigree under the file labelled "so what?"

drakers · 03-03-2005, 08:09 AM

I'm a college grad and it makes me mad when people who are in college think everyone who isn't in college are just stupid for not going to college. Some people just don't want to go to college because they don't like school or just don't feel it is important. There are many other reasons, but the most is important reason is who cares people make there own choices maybe not to always make them happy, but because this is what they want to do with their life. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, I very much doubt the majority of college students see them selves intellectually superior to non-college people. I am an optimist.

cierah · 03-03-2005, 01:52 PM

I had that class again this morning. That has become sort of a joke in class now. They know that I am against free trade, against riduculous wastes of tax payers money and now that I don't think the public is stupid. It was slightly funny because we were talking about Senate reform and I said scrap it because it was created as a sober-second thought so as the uneducated masses will not make stupid decisions but now that the public is better educated why do we need this throwback to an aristocratic age? That's right we don't. (at least in my opinion)

Janey · 03-03-2005, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drakers

I'm a college grad and it makes me mad when people who are in college think everyone who isn't in college are just stupid for not going to college. Some people just don't want to go to college because they don't like school or just don't feel it is important. There are many other reasons, but the most is important reason is who cares people make there own choices maybe not to always make them happy, but because this is what they want to do with their life. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, I very much doubt the majority of college students see them selves intellectually superior to non-college people. I am an optimist.

there's even slices of snobbism. University students/grads apply the same smug view to college students/grads. View themselves as superior. I went to University in a town that has:

1 University
1 Military college
1 college

and to hear the university students, the Military college was acceptable (barely), but the college was, well, inferior.

It really grated on my nerves.

Yakk · 03-04-2005, 01:23 PM

I went to school in a town with 2 Universities and at least 1 College.

One of the universities was known as 'the high school down the street'.

I don't believe the college was even thought about.

Simularly, different programs in the university I went to had harder/easier entrance requirements. The easier faculties where made fun of. Of course, the harder faculties where also made fun of. =)

I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of people where below average (mean) intelligence by many measures -- only median intelligence has half above and half below by definition.

Even there, one cannot ignore measurement errors. If intelligence is such that there is unavoidable bias in measuring it, then there could be an entire bunch of people who are unorderable intelligence-wise. The best you might be able to say is "there is a 95% chance that you are smarter than 40% of the population, and 95% chance you are dumber than 40% of the population".

Oh btw:

Quote:

I'm a university student. I was just in a PolSt class in which the ppl in the class continually said that the public is stupid, uneducated, uniformed and that is the reason why they did not vote

Which "they" whose lack of voting is being explained: the people in the class or the public?

Janey · 03-04-2005, 01:39 PM

Interesting point you raise about intelligence in university Yakk. I came to the conclusion after seeing friends enter into and complete medical school, that you don't have to be intelligent to be in meds (or pick any university programme). You just had to be disciplined, and work smart.

there's a difference between smarts and intelligence. Unforunately I learned none of this until it was too late. You see I wasn't smart enough, nore disciplined enough. this is where I really believe that parents can influence a kid's capability by developing the discipline at an early age. Work smart and don't procrastinate, as it take twice the effort to catch up as it does to knock something off at a good pace the first time around....

BigBen · 03-04-2005, 02:28 PM

I am sometimes the smartest person in the room, sometimes the dumbest

I often look at those "Dumb" people and then look at my 75,000$ in student loans. Who is the dummy here?

Entrance Exam:

Dick and Jane both graduate from high school.
Dick goes into University, smokes a pound of weed a month, and graduates with a degree in Accounting 5 years later. He gets a Job in Calgary making 50K per year for the rest of his life. He spends the next 10 years paying off his student loans and becomes bitter and disillusioned. He sits behind a desk and looks at tittie board forums when his co-workers are at lunch.

Jane pursues a vocational school that teaches her a journeyman trade that she has always been interested in. Apprenticing for 4 years and getting paid for her work (although a low wage, almost endentured servitude) she is now a journeyman and can command 80-90K per year, when she sets up her successful business as an independant contractor. She also looks at tittie board forums in her spare time, but only to see what people have to say about the boudoir photos she had done in the spring.

Now, Who is the Idiot?

Janey · 03-04-2005, 02:31 PM

how the hell did you end up owing 75K????? wtf???

BigBen · 03-04-2005, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janey

how the hell did you end up owing 75K????? wtf???

Well. First off, I am the smartest motherfucker on the planet.

Second, I had to pay for it.

Third, They want the money back.

Fourth, those 3 little letters, M-B-A.

FloydianOne · 03-04-2005, 11:37 PM

I really dont think that most college students think that those who didnt go to college are dumb or not intelligent. However I believe that they think that in their respective fields and say in certain skills they are better at. I think this is probably true also, because for example college student takes calculus, average person who didnt go to college doesnt take calculus.... on average more college students know calculus. But as was said before knowing calculus is not the same thing as being intelligent... its just being more educated. So I would have to agree that the average college student is more educated than the average person. Then again I am a college student so.... perhaps im just adding to your argument

0energy0 · 03-06-2005, 06:57 PM

im dumb and in college

SecretMethod70 · 03-07-2005, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janey

how the hell did you end up owing 75K????? wtf???

Not that odd..... I'll be owing somewhere around 100K when I graduate. And that's just for a Bachelor's.

BigBen · 03-08-2005, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecretMethod70

Not that odd..... I'll be owing somewhere around 100K when I graduate. And that's just for a Bachelor's.

Hey secret, remember, Our bachelor's degrees run about 5K/ yr for 4 years up in The Great White North. You Chicagoland people have those IVY LEAGUE golden parachute schools.

Bachelor in what? Double major Comp Sci and Electric engineering?? Those will run about 35K here. If you are hard working enough. (notice I didn't say smart

)

SecretMethod70 · 03-08-2005, 11:39 AM

heh, if I only went to an ivy league school (actually, I'm glad I don't)

It would have been the same price either way, but I just recently changed from studying vocal performance to political science. The difference in total cost was only 1-2k or so

Janey · 03-08-2005, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBen931

Hey secret, remember, Our bachelor's degrees run about 5K/ yr for 4 years up in The Great White North. You Chicagoland people have those IVY LEAGUE golden parachute schools.

Bachelor in what? Double major Comp Sci and Electric engineering?? Those will run about 35K here. If you are hard working enough. (notice I didn't say smart

)

Here is a link to the fee schedule for this current year at Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario:

http://www.queensu.ca/registrar/fees/ug-dom.html

as you can see, first year Applied Science (engineering) is $7,597, while Art's & Science is $4,949. So and Engineering degree at Queen's will cost you approx 30k for 4 yrs of tuition. Artscis pay about 20K. I guess you get what you pay for?

As for room and board, the cost of a year of residence can be found at the following link: https://housing.queensu.ca/residence...ergradfees.asp
but it is $8,348. so one year at Queen's in engineering will set you back about 16k plus...

BigBen · 03-08-2005, 02:16 PM

Room and board?

I neither remember sleeping nor eating.

SecretMethod70 · 03-08-2005, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBen931

Room and board?

I neither remember sleeping nor eating.

That's about a proper description of college.

0energy0 · 03-08-2005, 08:14 PM

I think college is a great experience...when you are dorming. When I first moved in, i was weary about what was going to happen to me. I enjoy my roommate because he is an excellent and caring one. We look out for each other. Hopefully, we will see each other in the future.

The only downside is tuition and classes. While all of my other friends were taking the classes that they chose, i had to go into the classes for my major (biology). i really hated organic chemistry (doesn't everyone?). i dunno, it was just too confusing and i had always wondered why it would be so important to know if a certain compound was chiral or not. Biology was just full of memorizing names and parts. Dissection was a fun thing.

Tuition had just raised after my first year. Luckily my parents were paying it. I just hate money. My other hallmates had caused much damage to the hall. Therefore, we had to pay for th damages. THey still owe me!

College is a great experience, and just try to think positively in class!

Yakk · 03-09-2005, 08:12 AM

0energy, don't dismiss money. It is one measure to determine if you are doing more for other people than they are doing for you.

As for the prices, remember the Canadian ones are in CN$. Which, come to think of it, doesn't matter all that much -- in about 5 to 10, it may be at par. Right now it's 15% or so cheaper than US$.

From what I remember of reading statistics, something like 1/3 of Ontario adults have a Bachelors I thought (higher % towards the younger end)? Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

03-01-2005, 09:29 AM	#1 (permalink)
cierah Crazy Location: Canada	rant.... about university I'm a university student. I was just in a PolSt class in which the ppl in the class continually said that the public is stupid, uneducated, uniformed and that is the reason why they did not vote. It makes me mad when upper-middle class white folks, who have never had to work a day in their life say, (and one actually did) that gas attendents are stupid and backwards. Once I have a degree I will be in the top 15% of the Canadian population in terms of education but not in terms of intelligence. Of course, when you call them on it, like I did, they protest and claim that the public is ill informed not stupid but when you listen, I mean really listen, to their comments they are saying that the public is stupid. They are just elite, middle-class wasps. Whatever. It makes me mad. There is great pride and self-accomplishment that can be had in a career that isn't university. They think that university is the only way to go if you want a career or even a fullfilling life. It really makes me mad. Thanks. I feel better after my rant!

03-01-2005, 03:08 PM	#4 (permalink)
Sage hoarding all the big girl panties since 2005 Location: North side	College students, in general, think they know everything till they take a few philosophy and meditation courses. Then they chill the fuck out. I know- been there done that __________________ Sage knows our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's She answers hard acrostics, has a pretty taste for paradox She quotes in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus In conics she can floor peculiarities parabolous -C'hi

03-03-2005, 07:58 AM	#10 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	University changed my life. I didn't just learn, I learned how to learn!! Yes, some of the WASPS who have never looked through the rabbit hole will go through their degree program and remain ignorant to what it means. How many times have you walked down the hall and heard the discussion of how drunk the speaker got on the weekend, or where they are going for reading week? A Warrant officer told me once, "Rank, Education, Intelligence and Respect have a correlation of zero..." It is one of my mantras. How many times has a stupid person been in charge of me because of rank? How many times has ignorant asshole tell me the way things are because of a piece of pretty paper hanging on the wall? I have respect for the guy who shows up, regardless of weather or terrain, and puts 100% towards the mission, because that is what is needed. You can store your rank and pedigree under the file labelled "so what?" __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

03-03-2005, 08:09 AM	#11 (permalink)
drakers Psycho Location: IOWA	I'm a college grad and it makes me mad when people who are in college think everyone who isn't in college are just stupid for not going to college. Some people just don't want to go to college because they don't like school or just don't feel it is important. There are many other reasons, but the most is important reason is who cares people make there own choices maybe not to always make them happy, but because this is what they want to do with their life. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, I very much doubt the majority of college students see them selves intellectually superior to non-college people. I am an optimist. __________________ Friends don't shake hands, friends 'gotta HUG!

03-04-2005, 02:28 PM	#16 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	I am sometimes the smartest person in the room, sometimes the dumbest I often look at those "Dumb" people and then look at my 75,000$ in student loans. Who is the dummy here? Entrance Exam: Dick and Jane both graduate from high school. Dick goes into University, smokes a pound of weed a month, and graduates with a degree in Accounting 5 years later. He gets a Job in Calgary making 50K per year for the rest of his life. He spends the next 10 years paying off his student loans and becomes bitter and disillusioned. He sits behind a desk and looks at tittie board forums when his co-workers are at lunch. Jane pursues a vocational school that teaches her a journeyman trade that she has always been interested in. Apprenticing for 4 years and getting paid for her work (although a low wage, almost endentured servitude) she is now a journeyman and can command 80-90K per year, when she sets up her successful business as an independant contractor. She also looks at tittie board forums in her spare time, but only to see what people have to say about the boudoir photos she had done in the spring. Now, Who is the Idiot? __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

03-01-2005, 10:15 AM	#3 (permalink)
frogza Registered User Location: Right Here	Due to the nature of averages, we can deduce that half the population is of below average intelligence. Even though driving on the freeway may inspire us to say most are in fact below average. By the same token, half would be above average. If we look at the statistics we find that much more than half of the people are not rich. Therefore, many of the poor are of above average intelligence. It's true that people who lack the experience of associating with a broader cross section of society, usually feel that the one they belong to is superior to the others. Each group finds a way to say they are better than the other groups. Some may say they are smarter, some more honest, some better workers etc. The fact of the matter is, in each segment of society from the richest to the poorest, we will find the full spectrum of intelligence and moralality.

03-01-2005, 09:51 PM	#7 (permalink)
pinoychink790 Loser Location: McDonald's Playland	these college students fail to realize that the only way to go in life is the way of the free french fries.

03-02-2005, 05:57 AM	#9 (permalink)
cierah Crazy Location: Canada	[QUOTE=warrrreagl]Speaking as a college faculty member, this sounds like the usual confusion between education and intelligence. [QUOTE] I think that sums up the problem. Ppl automatically equate an education with intelligence. I know that I would rather have some of the complelty uneducated ppl over for lunch than I would some of my proffs.

03-03-2005, 01:52 PM	#12 (permalink)
cierah Crazy Location: Canada	I had that class again this morning. That has become sort of a joke in class now. They know that I am against free trade, against riduculous wastes of tax payers money and now that I don't think the public is stupid. It was slightly funny because we were talking about Senate reform and I said scrap it because it was created as a sober-second thought so as the uneducated masses will not make stupid decisions but now that the public is better educated why do we need this throwback to an aristocratic age? That's right we don't. (at least in my opinion)

03-04-2005, 01:39 PM	#15 (permalink)
Janey Junkie Location: Toronto	Interesting point you raise about intelligence in university Yakk. I came to the conclusion after seeing friends enter into and complete medical school, that you don't have to be intelligent to be in meds (or pick any university programme). You just had to be disciplined, and work smart. there's a difference between smarts and intelligence. Unforunately I learned none of this until it was too late. You see I wasn't smart enough, nore disciplined enough. this is where I really believe that parents can influence a kid's capability by developing the discipline at an early age. Work smart and don't procrastinate, as it take twice the effort to catch up as it does to knock something off at a good pace the first time around....

03-04-2005, 02:31 PM	#17 (permalink)
Janey Junkie Location: Toronto	how the hell did you end up owing 75K????? wtf???

03-04-2005, 11:37 PM	#19 (permalink)
FloydianOne Crazy	I really dont think that most college students think that those who didnt go to college are dumb or not intelligent. However I believe that they think that in their respective fields and say in certain skills they are better at. I think this is probably true also, because for example college student takes calculus, average person who didnt go to college doesnt take calculus.... on average more college students know calculus. But as was said before knowing calculus is not the same thing as being intelligent... its just being more educated. So I would have to agree that the average college student is more educated than the average person. Then again I am a college student so.... perhaps im just adding to your argument

03-06-2005, 06:57 PM	#20 (permalink)
0energy0 Insane Location: Title Town, USA	im dumb and in college

03-08-2005, 11:39 AM	#23 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	heh, if I only went to an ivy league school (actually, I'm glad I don't) It would have been the same price either way, but I just recently changed from studying vocal performance to political science. The difference in total cost was only 1-2k or so __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

03-08-2005, 02:16 PM	#25 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	Room and board? I neither remember sleeping nor eating. __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

03-08-2005, 08:14 PM	#27 (permalink)
0energy0 Insane Location: Title Town, USA	I think college is a great experience...when you are dorming. When I first moved in, i was weary about what was going to happen to me. I enjoy my roommate because he is an excellent and caring one. We look out for each other. Hopefully, we will see each other in the future. The only downside is tuition and classes. While all of my other friends were taking the classes that they chose, i had to go into the classes for my major (biology). i really hated organic chemistry (doesn't everyone?). i dunno, it was just too confusing and i had always wondered why it would be so important to know if a certain compound was chiral or not. Biology was just full of memorizing names and parts. Dissection was a fun thing. Tuition had just raised after my first year. Luckily my parents were paying it. I just hate money. My other hallmates had caused much damage to the hall. Therefore, we had to pay for th damages. THey still owe me! College is a great experience, and just try to think positively in class! __________________ Is the juice worth the squeeze?

03-09-2005, 08:12 AM	#28 (permalink)
Yakk Wehret Den Anfängen! Location: Ontario, Canada	0energy, don't dismiss money. It is one measure to determine if you are doing more for other people than they are doing for you. As for the prices, remember the Canadian ones are in CN$. Which, come to think of it, doesn't matter all that much -- in about 5 to 10, it may be at par. Right now it's 15% or so cheaper than US$. From what I remember of reading statistics, something like 1/3 of Ontario adults have a Bachelors I thought (higher % towards the younger end)? Maybe I'm remembering wrong. __________________ Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.