Locker Room Antics...or, Assault? - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

rat · 04-13-2005, 05:40 PM

Quote:

During her opening statement, Slattery said her client engaged in a locker room antic that was not a sexual assault in any way.

"Chewbacca is a wookie--a 2 meter tall humanoid covered in hair. Now how is it a 6 foot tall wookie lives on the planet Endor with a bunch of 3 foot tall ewoks. It does not make sense ladies and gentlemen, it does not make sense. And if that does not make sense, consider this, how can penetration occur through clothing?" Slattery asked. "Ladies and gentlemen now does it happen? It just does not make sense. If Chewbacca living on Endor does not make sense, you must acquit"

edited for accuracy in the lawyer's statement

irseg · 04-13-2005, 06:22 PM

When I was in high school, that kind of behavior would unquestionably be considered really gay. Bullying was pretty much limited to shoving smaller kids around, making them run through the locker room as they tossed their clothes all over the place, etc. Anal fingering was decidedly off-limits though.

If you're a scrawny computer geek like me, the best thing to do in high school is form alliances. I'd fix computers for the football players and show them how to find porn sites (this was in the mid-late 90s so the Internet was a pretty new concept to most people), and in return nobody ever messed with me. It was a good arrangement.

G5_Todd · 04-13-2005, 06:26 PM

lol rat...thats pretty funny

rat · 04-13-2005, 10:13 PM

can't take full credit for it. the Chewbacca Defense(r) tactic was pioneered by Johnny Cochran [sic] in a South Park episode. kind of ironic that even with the man dead, his Chewbacca Defense(r) is blossoming better than ever.

F-18_Driver · 04-13-2005, 10:24 PM

This kind of crap is what causes situations like Columbine. Especially if the victim is a quiet kid who doesn't tell anyone. One day, he's had enough.

I'm glad the perp is being tried as an adult. He reminds me of some cops I've known.
(Note: Not ALL cops. However, there are always a few on power trips.)

Sweetpea · 04-13-2005, 10:26 PM

truly horrific! Assault, absolutely . . . what ethics does this young perpetrator have to think that it's okay to sexually assualt another peer and then call it 'horseplay' . . .

some sincere couseling is in order for both parties, but esp. for the young man acting on such bullying impulses, might indicate a more serious issue . . . aka lack of ability to have empathy, bullying victims etc. couseling and pronto.

Sweetpea

Bill O'Rights · 04-14-2005, 04:55 AM

Plattsmouth teen acquitted of sex assault
LINK

Quote:

PLATTSMOUTH, Neb. - Former varsity football player Jacob Schippert cried for several minutes and hugged his mother after a Cass County jury found him not guilty of first-degree sexual assault.

At 5:15 p.m. Wednesday, District Judge Randall Rehmeier read the verdict after a panel of eight men and four women had deliberated for an hour.

"I just don't think the state proved its case, and it didn't prove any intent," jury foreman Roger Sykes said afterward.

Last August, Cass County Attorney Nathan Cox charged Schippert, 17, with first-degree sexual assault in adult court. Initially, Plattsmouth police wrote Schippert, a senior, a misdemeanor citation for an Aug. 19 locker room incident at Plattsmouth High School.

The alleged victim, now 15, testified Tuesday that Schippert penetrated the boy's rectum with two fingers, one-fourth to one-half-inch through the boy's underwear. The boy also said Schippert exposed himself, simulated anal sex on him and grabbed his buttocks after football practice.

The felony charge required Cox to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that penetration occurred without consent.

Cox told the jury that it could instead find Schippert guilty of attempted sexual assault, but foreman Sykes said the jury did not take long to rule that out, either.

"There was some horseplay and some hazing, but not first-degree sexual assault," Sykes said.

Defense attorney Angela Slattery argued that sexual assault involving penetration cannot occur if two people are clothed. She said the freshman complained he was sexually assaulted because "his ego was hurt."

"He was subjected to unwanted behavior," Slattery said. "It was disgusting, it was untasteful, but not sexual assault."

Cox called five other freshman football players as his chief witnesses. Several contradicted their earlier statements to police, saying Wednesday that they never saw Schippert expose himself or use his hand to penetrate the boy's rectum.

One player, senior Rory Stone, testified for the defense that the freshman never cried during the minute-long incident.

"I saw two wrestlers wrestling at the freshman locker room," Stone said. "I saw what I saw. Two people horsing around, laughing the entire time. Nothing was going on."

Schippert testified on his own behalf Wednesday that he targeted the freshman for a "horseplay prank."

Schippert, who stands about 6-foot-3, said he grabbed the smaller boy by his neck, put another hand on his back to hold him down and simulated a sex act, but never stuck his hand inside the boy's pants or rectum.

Schippert testified that he had given the boy numerous rides home from summer wrestling camps that both attended in 2004.

"I thought he was my buddy; we were just messing around," Schippert said.

"You act out these anal intercourse incidents on other people?" Cox asked, on cross-examination.

"Yes," Schippert said. "Because it's funny, it's goofing off."

Aside from the alleged victim, Schippert said he had done the same thing numerous times to other athletes "because that's what buddies do."

Schippert said he was the recipient of the same behavior as a freshman.

Schippert was expelled after Cox filed felony criminal charges. He is being tutored by the district's staff and will graduate in May but cannot attend the graduation ceremony.

He and his parents declined to comment after they left the courthouse.

This smells like last weeks tuna casserole. Well, the message has been sent. It's ok to stick your fingers into orafices, so long as it's through the undies, and you call it horseplay.

Quote:

Defense attorney Angela Slattery argued that sexual assault involving penetration cannot occur if two people are clothed.

I'm thinking 5 minutes alone in a locked room would change her opinion.

Quote:

Cox called five other freshman football players as his chief witnesses. Several contradicted their earlier statements to police, saying Wednesday that they never saw Schippert expose himself or use his hand to penetrate the boy's rectum.

Knowing what I know of Plattsmouth...this smacks of coercion to me. Awfully damn convenient.

animosity · 04-14-2005, 07:02 AM

Sexual assault. No doubt in my mind.
Saying that no sex organs were involved is a very gray area. A regular assault charge is not enough here.

I doubt Schippert intended it to be sexual assault. I am sure it was just a normal hazing or w/e to him. But that is the problem. I am sure Schippert still thinks that he did nothing wrong. The boy needs to go to prison.

Parents... Learn to raise up your children with a little regard to their fellow man.

**edit after viewing the last comment**
I love our legal system....

bparker805 · 04-14-2005, 08:31 AM

OK... I have been the victem of hazing by seniors when I was a freshman. I had the shit kicked out of me a couple of times. But this goes way over the top as far as I'm concerned... This guy should be in some kind of counceling far away from others that he could potentially hurt!

Janey · 04-14-2005, 08:53 AM

can you squeal like a pig??? fuck. Stories like this really make me believe that the good ole boy network, and the pathetic small town coercion stories that you see on TV really do exist.

what a bunch of fucking hillbillies. And what's with Defense attorney Angela Slattery??? just goes to prove that lawyers sell their souls to the highest (lowest?) bidder.

Sweetpea · 04-14-2005, 12:39 PM

The outcome of this has made me very sad

I don't know what else to say, other than the fact that these individuals are sick that they would deem something like that 'horseplay' . . .

sweetpea

martinguerre · 04-14-2005, 12:52 PM

i can't believe that verdict...i try to have faith in the jury system, but it sounds like this one choked. every failed prosecution of a sex crime makes it harder for the next survivor to come forward.

blargh...

Fohur2 · 04-14-2005, 02:29 PM

Gah....eww

Gilda · 04-14-2005, 04:16 PM

I'm very disappointed in this, but given the description of what the witnesses said, I'm not very surprised. With only the victim testifying that he was penetrated, and a bunch of witnesses recanting their statements, it's very, very difficult to prove sexual assault.

It's a shame that they didn't include simple assault as a lesser included offense, as Shippert's testimony was essentially a confession to assault.

Anyone who thinks simulating a sexual act on an unwilling victim is funny is in serious need of psychological help.

Hektore · 04-14-2005, 04:50 PM

*prepares to be crucified*

I'm going to have to agree with the jury on this one here, please don't write me off as an idiot just yet. Having just finished my round of high school football, playing a year in college and then moving to rugby I can tell you with certainty this is a common occurrence. Very similar things have happened to me, hell everything that boy said happened to him has happened to me and just about all my other teammates. I don't think the issue is so much about domination, control or bullying as it is about just trying to make your buddies say "Dude, what the fuck?".

Basically its about pushing boundaries, seeing what you can get away with in front of your friends. The easiest way to push that boundary is to simulate homosexual activity because, as accepting as we pretend to be, in the guy's locker room this is very much off limits. If anyone were to actually admit to being homosexual in any given high school football team's locker room I would feel very sorry for that person. That being said, this is a sort of a norm for pushing the envelope(I'm NOT saying it's ok for this to be the norm just that it is.) in any way, especially among sports so blantanly 'macho' oriented.

Being that this was a freshman he may have been unaware of this type of behavior and the offender being a senior he may have thought this acceptable behavior, as did the other players who witnessed the event. So, no I don't think he should be marched down the Pen to be Bubba's bitch, but he needs to be told that this is not okay, even if it may seem that way to most people, then proceed from there. I'm sorry for the kid who feels victimized but sometimes you just have to grow a tough skin and move on.

Now you can call me an idiot.

martinguerre · 04-14-2005, 04:57 PM

so...homophobia, and homophobic violence is okay because it's team building?

yeah, i'm not going to call you an idiot. but i will say you have some fucked up priorities.

Hektore · 04-14-2005, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinguerre

so...homophobia, and homophobic violence is okay because it's team building?

Woah, I never meant to say it was ok or that I even remotely agreed with the way things are or that it serves and worthwhile function, only that it is simply the way things are. I'm saying that at 17 your world revolves around cultural norms. In this case what he is doing is simply working within a subcultural norm, and while we sit here and say its wrong because it is, he may not have really thought about that possibility, so you shouldn't be grabbing your pitchforks and torches quite yet.

pig · 04-14-2005, 05:47 PM

Dude!!!

We gave a lot of wedgies, and there were other initiation rites when I playing soccer...but the old finger to the first knuckle in the ass trick? Hell NO I don't know that I'd necessary go jail time for this kid, and in fact I can't really say what I'd recommend without actually having a lot more information about it. But shit...jabbing your finger in a teammates red eye would have been a serious problem when I was playing. Icky icky foo.

OFKU0 · 04-14-2005, 07:36 PM

I guess he get's to go to the prom now.

martinguerre · 04-15-2005, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hektore

Woah, I never meant to say it was ok or that I even remotely agreed with the way things are or that it serves and worthwhile function, only that it is simply the way things are. I'm saying that at 17 your world revolves around cultural norms. In this case what he is doing is simply working within a subcultural norm, and while we sit here and say its wrong because it is, he may not have really thought about that possibility, so you shouldn't be grabbing your pitchforks and torches quite yet.

If you don't agree with the way things are....why wouldn't you want to set a standard that changed what was happening?

If the cultural norms are wrong...then call them wrong and confront them. That this assailent was part of a culture that tolerates homophobic violence, then that means i want to confront the assailent, the assailants actions, and the assailant's culture.

There's no excuse under the law for "it's what we do."

lindseylatch · 04-15-2005, 10:54 AM

Oh, oh, i have another story similar to this one...You guys'll love it...
Wrestling team, at state, in a hotel. Teacher walks into the guys room, and find a freshmen down on the bed, with a senior over his face, pants down, with his balls on the kid's forehead...oh yes, teabaging. Been going on for YEARS, and the teachers had no idea (or so they claim).
Nice to know sexual assault is alive and well, and being practiced on young boys before it's used on the young women...

pig · 04-15-2005, 12:29 PM

and to think i'd only seen teabagging at parties...but seriously between friends, one passed out, usually involving a polaroid. many laughs had the next day. i think a lot of this stuff can be contextual - in the case of the inciting incident for this thread, i think it's safe to say the 15 yr. old kid wasn't down with the sphincter palpitation.

/seriously, who sticks their fingers in a stranger's ass? who wants their fingers smelling like some kid's asshole all day? icky icky foo. then again, i've heard about some weird shit involving less-than-stellar examples of dna and athletic/alpha displays. i'd hate to see all initiation rites dropped because of this kind of crap, but this kind of thing is just unacceptable.

Hektore · 04-15-2005, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinguerre

If you don't agree with the way things are....why wouldn't you want to set a standard that changed what was happening?

If the cultural norms are wrong...then call them wrong and confront them. That this assailent was part of a culture that tolerates homophobic violence, then that means i want to confront the assailent, the assailants actions, and the assailant's culture.

There's no excuse under the law for "it's what we do."

/agree

I didn't say don't change it, but the major tone of the thread up to this point was that this was a clear cut case a bullying and sexual assault with some kid being victimized intensely and that the offender should server the maximum penalty under the harshest law. I'm saying that this isn't the best way to solve it because it is very possible that that isn't the way it happened. Simple horseplay that can get carried away at times, by all means change it. No it isn't right. No it shouldn't stay the same.

Quote:

"I thought he was my buddy; we were just messing around," Schippert said.

Really it's this statement right here. I can totally imagine this happening in my locker room, back at my high school and it would end up being virtually the same case. With everyone being totally caught off guard and saying "Sorry, we really didn't think this would bother you." It says in the article that the older boy was a recipient of the same kind of treatment and I'd bet that this type of thing happened more than once between these two. I was just trying to make the point that I don't think this is really sexual assault but a simple case of horseplay going a bit too far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigglet

i think a lot of this stuff can be contextual

This is the point I was trying to make, there is not simply a 'one rule solves all these problems' but that stuff like this really needs to be taken on a case by case basis. I think that it is easy to get the wrong impression and jump to extreme conclusions in a case like this.

raeanna74 · 04-18-2005, 07:46 AM

Oh brother - time to move.
Really how could they not see this as at least sexual harrassment. Or at the very least harrassment? Tutoring by the school staff. This kid isn't missing out on anything or learning that his behavior was inappropriate in any way. I won't be surprised to hear of something down the road where he got a girl out on a date and wanted more contact than she did. I really hope someone finds the balls to stand up to him again. It's a pity not one of those witnesses had the guts to stand up. I hope they regret it enough not to back down again to a bully. Grrrr bullies.

It was wrong, what he did, I don't care what you want to call it. Go ahead and leave out the sexual part but it was unwanted physical contact that was forced on another kid after much protest and avoidance. That's enough for me. Sick.

KinkyKiwi · 04-18-2005, 01:44 PM

if thats not sexual assault what is?

rat · 04-20-2005, 10:52 PM

a cleear victory for the Chewbacca defense(r) once again. anyone else see it coming?

View Poll Results: What are we dealing with here?
Simple horseplay	3	2.54%
Sexual assault	98	83.05%
Something in between	14	11.86%
I have no idea.	3	2.54%
Voters: 118. You may not vote on this poll

04-13-2005, 06:26 PM	#43 (permalink)
G5_Todd Junkie Location: Reichstag	lol rat...thats pretty funny __________________ "....and when you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." -General Franks

04-13-2005, 10:26 PM	#46 (permalink)
Sweetpea Fade out Location: in love	truly horrific! Assault, absolutely . . . what ethics does this young perpetrator have to think that it's okay to sexually assualt another peer and then call it 'horseplay' . . . some sincere couseling is in order for both parties, but esp. for the young man acting on such bullying impulses, might indicate a more serious issue . . . aka lack of ability to have empathy, bullying victims etc. couseling and pronto. Sweetpea __________________ Having a Pet Will Change Your Life! Looking for a great pet?! Click Here! "I am the Type of Person Who Can Get Away With A lot, Simply Because I Don't Ask Permission for the Privilege of Being Myself"

04-14-2005, 12:39 PM	#51 (permalink)
Sweetpea Fade out Location: in love	The outcome of this has made me very sad I don't know what else to say, other than the fact that these individuals are sick that they would deem something like that 'horseplay' . . . sweetpea __________________ Having a Pet Will Change Your Life! Looking for a great pet?! Click Here! "I am the Type of Person Who Can Get Away With A lot, Simply Because I Don't Ask Permission for the Privilege of Being Myself"

04-14-2005, 12:52 PM	#52 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	i can't believe that verdict...i try to have faith in the jury system, but it sounds like this one choked. every failed prosecution of a sex crime makes it harder for the next survivor to come forward. blargh... __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16

04-13-2005, 06:22 PM	#42 (permalink)
irseg Junkie Location: Florida	When I was in high school, that kind of behavior would unquestionably be considered really gay. Bullying was pretty much limited to shoving smaller kids around, making them run through the locker room as they tossed their clothes all over the place, etc. Anal fingering was decidedly off-limits though. If you're a scrawny computer geek like me, the best thing to do in high school is form alliances. I'd fix computers for the football players and show them how to find porn sites (this was in the mid-late 90s so the Internet was a pretty new concept to most people), and in return nobody ever messed with me. It was a good arrangement.

04-13-2005, 10:24 PM	#45 (permalink)
F-18_Driver Loser Location: Check your six.	This kind of crap is what causes situations like Columbine. Especially if the victim is a quiet kid who doesn't tell anyone. One day, he's had enough. I'm glad the perp is being tried as an adult. He reminds me of some cops I've known. (Note: Not ALL cops. However, there are always a few on power trips.)

04-14-2005, 07:02 AM	#48 (permalink)
animosity on fire Location: Atlanta, GA	Sexual assault. No doubt in my mind. Saying that no sex organs were involved is a very gray area. A regular assault charge is not enough here. I doubt Schippert intended it to be sexual assault. I am sure it was just a normal hazing or w/e to him. But that is the problem. I am sure Schippert still thinks that he did nothing wrong. The boy needs to go to prison. Parents... Learn to raise up your children with a little regard to their fellow man. edit after viewing the last comment I love our legal system....

04-14-2005, 08:31 AM	#49 (permalink)
bparker805 is KING! Location: On the path to Valhalla.	OK... I have been the victem of hazing by seniors when I was a freshman. I had the shit kicked out of me a couple of times. But this goes way over the top as far as I'm concerned... This guy should be in some kind of counceling far away from others that he could potentially hurt!

04-14-2005, 08:53 AM	#50 (permalink)
Janey Junkie Location: Toronto	can you squeal like a pig??? fuck. Stories like this really make me believe that the good ole boy network, and the pathetic small town coercion stories that you see on TV really do exist. what a bunch of fucking hillbillies. And what's with Defense attorney Angela Slattery??? just goes to prove that lawyers sell their souls to the highest (lowest?) bidder.

04-14-2005, 02:29 PM	#53 (permalink)
Fohur2 Crazy	Gah....eww

04-14-2005, 04:16 PM	#54 (permalink)
Gilda 32 flavors and then some Location: Out on a wire.	I'm very disappointed in this, but given the description of what the witnesses said, I'm not very surprised. With only the victim testifying that he was penetrated, and a bunch of witnesses recanting their statements, it's very, very difficult to prove sexual assault. It's a shame that they didn't include simple assault as a lesser included offense, as Shippert's testimony was essentially a confession to assault. Anyone who thinks simulating a sexual act on an unwilling victim is funny is in serious need of psychological help. __________________ I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert

04-14-2005, 04:50 PM	#55 (permalink)
Hektore Junkie Location: Greater Harrisburg Area	prepares to be crucified I'm going to have to agree with the jury on this one here, please don't write me off as an idiot just yet. Having just finished my round of high school football, playing a year in college and then moving to rugby I can tell you with certainty this is a common occurrence. Very similar things have happened to me, hell everything that boy said happened to him has happened to me and just about all my other teammates. I don't think the issue is so much about domination, control or bullying as it is about just trying to make your buddies say "Dude, what the fuck?". Basically its about pushing boundaries, seeing what you can get away with in front of your friends. The easiest way to push that boundary is to simulate homosexual activity because, as accepting as we pretend to be, in the guy's locker room this is very much off limits. If anyone were to actually admit to being homosexual in any given high school football team's locker room I would feel very sorry for that person. That being said, this is a sort of a norm for pushing the envelope(I'm NOT saying it's ok for this to be the norm just that it is.) in any way, especially among sports so blantanly 'macho' oriented. Being that this was a freshman he may have been unaware of this type of behavior and the offender being a senior he may have thought this acceptable behavior, as did the other players who witnessed the event. So, no I don't think he should be marched down the Pen to be Bubba's bitch, but he needs to be told that this is not okay, even if it may seem that way to most people, then proceed from there. I'm sorry for the kid who feels victimized but sometimes you just have to grow a tough skin and move on. Now you can call me an idiot. __________________ The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game. Last edited by Hektore; 04-14-2005 at 04:53 PM..

04-14-2005, 04:57 PM	#56 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	so...homophobia, and homophobic violence is okay because it's team building? yeah, i'm not going to call you an idiot. but i will say you have some fucked up priorities. __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16

04-14-2005, 05:47 PM	#58 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	Dude!!! We gave a lot of wedgies, and there were other initiation rites when I playing soccer...but the old finger to the first knuckle in the ass trick? Hell NO I don't know that I'd necessary go jail time for this kid, and in fact I can't really say what I'd recommend without actually having a lot more information about it. But shit...jabbing your finger in a teammates red eye would have been a serious problem when I was playing. Icky icky foo. __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

04-14-2005, 07:36 PM	#59 (permalink)
OFKU0 Junk	I guess he get's to go to the prom now. __________________ " In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

04-15-2005, 10:54 AM	#61 (permalink)
lindseylatch Addict Location: Seattle, WA	Oh, oh, i have another story similar to this one...You guys'll love it... Wrestling team, at state, in a hotel. Teacher walks into the guys room, and find a freshmen down on the bed, with a senior over his face, pants down, with his balls on the kid's forehead...oh yes, teabaging. Been going on for YEARS, and the teachers had no idea (or so they claim). Nice to know sexual assault is alive and well, and being practiced on young boys before it's used on the young women... __________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities" "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him." "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." -Voltaire

04-15-2005, 12:29 PM	#62 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	and to think i'd only seen teabagging at parties...but seriously between friends, one passed out, usually involving a polaroid. many laughs had the next day. i think a lot of this stuff can be contextual - in the case of the inciting incident for this thread, i think it's safe to say the 15 yr. old kid wasn't down with the sphincter palpitation. /seriously, who sticks their fingers in a stranger's ass? who wants their fingers smelling like some kid's asshole all day? icky icky foo. then again, i've heard about some weird shit involving less-than-stellar examples of dna and athletic/alpha displays. i'd hate to see all initiation rites dropped because of this kind of crap, but this kind of thing is just unacceptable. __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

04-18-2005, 07:46 AM	#64 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	Oh brother - time to move. Really how could they not see this as at least sexual harrassment. Or at the very least harrassment? Tutoring by the school staff. This kid isn't missing out on anything or learning that his behavior was inappropriate in any way. I won't be surprised to hear of something down the road where he got a girl out on a date and wanted more contact than she did. I really hope someone finds the balls to stand up to him again. It's a pity not one of those witnesses had the guts to stand up. I hope they regret it enough not to back down again to a bully. Grrrr bullies. It was wrong, what he did, I don't care what you want to call it. Go ahead and leave out the sexual part but it was unwanted physical contact that was forced on another kid after much protest and avoidance. That's enough for me. Sick. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

04-18-2005, 01:44 PM	#65 (permalink)
KinkyKiwi "Without the fuzz" Location: ..too close for comfort..	if thats not sexual assault what is? __________________ Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps. Play with each other. Play with yourselves. Just don't play with the squirrels, they bite.