Fireman out of 10 year coma - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ShaniFaye · 05-05-2005, 03:32 AM

Article

Quote:

By Dale Anderson

BUFFALO, New York (Reuters) - The wife of a brain-damaged firefighter said it was "overwhelming" to hear her husband speak after nearly 10 years of silence, a startling revival his doctor credited to a new drug treatment.

Donald Herbert, 43, suddenly snapped to attention on Saturday after years of sitting silently in a wheelchair at his nursing home. He stunned the nursing home staff by asking where his wife, Linda, was.

Linda Herbert was summoned to the Father Baker Manor nursing home, where the injured firefighter engaged family and friends in a 14-hour visit. On Wednesday, Linda Herbert told a news conference that hearing her husband speak again was "overwhelming."

"He thought he had been away for three months," she said. "He was very surprised to find it was 9-1/2 years. Our son Nicholas was 4-1/2 at the time and he was thrilled to have his father hug and speak to him. He didn't know it was Nick at first."

Herbert was injured in a December 1995 apartment blaze in Buffalo when the roof crashed down as he searched for victims. Herbert went without oxygen for about six minutes before he was rescued.

Dr. Jamil Ahmed, a physician at Erie County Medical Center, credited Herbert's startling revival to a new drug program he started three months ago, along with the Herbert family's unswerving belief that he would recover.

Ahmed said Herbert was "almost in a persistent vegetative state" when he began treating him 2-1/2 years ago.

"I was surprised that he was talking, and talking so sensibly," Ahmed said about Saturday's turnaround. "He recognized people. He was talking with his son. He counted from 1 to 200."

Ahmed would not identify the drugs Herbert receives in order to protect his privacy, but noted they included drugs used to treat attention deficit disorder and Parkinson's disease, along with an anti-depressant.

"It was a question of what types of medications would work in different ways with the brain, work on different parts of the brain," he said.

Since his breakthrough, Herbert has spent a lot of time sleeping, Linda Herbert said, but has "had several periods of lucidity and that gives us hope. They weren't to the degree of Saturday, but still of a quality that was there on Saturday."

Dr. Eileen Reilly, Herbert's physician at the nursing home, said: "Today he had two hours of activity and he was speaking in sentences. He does have some way to go, but it's still wonderful."

Fireman Article

Im so happy for the Herbert family and hopefully his recovery will continue to be as astounding as his initial "awakening".

In the aftermath of Terri Schiavo, I found this article really interesting. It states that he was in a "persistive vegatative state". He was without oxygen for one minute longer than Terri. I cant find what part of his brain was affected so I dont know if it was the same as hers, but it makes me wonder if the medication treatment they used on him would have worked on her.

What do you think it would be like to wake up after 10 years and find out that you came out of a similar situation (well, similar as near as I can tell without knowing what part of his brain was affected) and that Terri had been allowed to finally pass away. How would it make you view your family and the steadfastness they had shown?

JustJess · 05-05-2005, 04:58 AM

Mostly, I think I'd feel guilty for them giving up all that time, energy, love, and exhaustion for 10 long years, and for missing all of that time too. Grateful as well, but very guilty.

It's hard to say what kind of vegitative state he was in, but clearly he must have had brain activity of some kind for them to keep hoping like that. I've always said that if I'm brain dead, just kill me/let me die. I thought Terri Schiavo didn't have any brain activity??

lurkette · 05-05-2005, 05:19 AM

Actually, the article said he was almost in a persistent vegetative state.

I hesitate to even bring this issue up again but the deal with Terri Schiavo was that there was essentially NO BRAIN LEFT for the drugs to work on. The part of the brain that handles higher functions like speech and cognition was just GONE, and even some of her brainstem functions (like swallowing) were gone. Essentially replaced by CS fluid. Lack of oxygen doesn't always have the same effect on people's brains, and clearly this guy had enough brain to sit up on his own in a wheelchair and, eventually, speak. Terri Schiavo had little non-reflexive motor capacity, and the parts of the brain that control speech were, as I've said, gone. Not just "nonfunctional" - GONE. Liquefied. This sounds like a COMPLETELY different situation, and just because the two cases have words in common like "coma" and "almost in a persistent vegetative state," don't go thinking that gosh, they pulled the plug too soon on Terri Schiavo.

I'm thrilled that this treatment worked for this man - it must be terrifying to know that you've missed almost a decade of your life, and your family's lives, but how gratifying would it be for that family to finally have you back? They have some hard going ahead of them, with medical therapy and all the adjustments they'll need to make. None of them are going to be the same people the other remembers from 10 years ago. I wish them well.

Meditrina · 05-05-2005, 05:20 AM

My first thoughts as reading this was about Terri Shiavo and how her family must feel right now. Did anyone ever try different medication combinations on her? Was her brain damage more severe than this man's? I will admit to not knowing alot about Terri's case, but one can't help but wonder.

If I were to be awakened after all that time, I would feel truly blessed to have a family that would wait for me that long. I would never lose another minute loving them.

ShaniFaye · 05-05-2005, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lurkette

Actually, the article said he was almost in a persistent vegetative state.

I hesitate to even bring this issue up again but the deal with Terri Schiavo was that there was essentially NO BRAIN LEFT for the drugs to work on. The part of the brain that handles higher functions like speech and cognition was just GONE, and even some of her brainstem functions (like swallowing) were gone. Essentially replaced by CS fluid. Lack of oxygen doesn't always have the same effect on people's brains, and clearly this guy had enough brain to sit up on his own in a wheelchair and, eventually, speak. Terri Schiavo had little non-reflexive motor capacity, and the parts of the brain that control speech were, as I've said, gone. Not just "nonfunctional" - GONE. Liquefied. This sounds like a COMPLETELY different situation, and just because the two cases have words in common like "coma" and "almost in a persistent vegetative state," don't go thinking that gosh, they pulled the plug too soon on Terri Schiavo.

I'm thrilled that this treatment worked for this man - it must be terrifying to know that you've missed almost a decade of your life, and your family's lives, but how gratifying would it be for that family to finally have you back? They have some hard going ahead of them, with medical therapy and all the adjustments they'll need to make. None of them are going to be the same people the other remembers from 10 years ago. I wish them well.

Dummy me, I missed the "almost"...actually I was watching the news about this last nite and they were comparing him to terri so I just looked for an article to link this morning and didnt read it as well as I should have.

I wasnt at all saying they pulled the plug on Terri too soon (just for the record). It just made me wonder if they tried anything like this, or if there was even any point. My main thing would be, like you said, that no matter how much you rememberd, all the people in your life are different now and how do you think you'd cope with that?

Meditrina · 05-05-2005, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lurkette

Actually, the article said he was almost in a persistent vegetative state.

I hesitate to even bring this issue up again but the deal with Terri Schiavo was that there was essentially NO BRAIN LEFT for the drugs to work on. The part of the brain that handles higher functions like speech and cognition was just GONE, and even some of her brainstem functions (like swallowing) were gone. Essentially replaced by CS fluid. Lack of oxygen doesn't always have the same effect on people's brains, and clearly this guy had enough brain to sit up on his own in a wheelchair and, eventually, speak. Terri Schiavo had little non-reflexive motor capacity, and the parts of the brain that control speech were, as I've said, gone. Not just "nonfunctional" - GONE. Liquefied. This sounds like a COMPLETELY different situation, and just because the two cases have words in common like "coma" and "almost in a persistent vegetative state," don't go thinking that gosh, they pulled the plug too soon on Terri Schiavo.

I wish I would have seen this before I replied. Like I said, I know next to nothing about Terri Schiavo's case. Thank you for clarifying it for me. Now I understand more.

LewisCouch · 05-05-2005, 07:16 AM

Has the Shiavo autopsy produced conclusive evidence to support the above hypothesis? Certainly, if any portion of her brain were "liquefied", it would have been all over the MSM.

Although there are some similarities these two individuals share, direct comparisons to their respective medical conditions cannot be substantiated. Hopefully, this individual will recover enough to lead a full and happy life. I cannot imagine his confusion.

Redlemon · 05-05-2005, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LewisCouch

Has the Shiavo autopsy produced conclusive evidence to support the above hypothesis? Certainly, if any portion of her brain were "liquefied", it would have been all over the MSM.

The only thing I could find about an autopsy was in this New Zealand paper. The article is dated (4/6), but that's time zones for you:

Quote:

The body was cremated on Saturday after an autopsy was performed by the county medical examiner's office. The results of the autopsy are not expected to be made public for several weeks.

(heh, I just realized it's because we spelled Schiavo incorrectly...editing...)
...and really, no further information. "Several weeks" have passed.

IanSturgill · 05-05-2005, 08:28 AM

it's awesome that he didn't die. i'm generally a very cynnical person, but going into burning buildings by choice is very chivalrous.

lurkette · 05-06-2005, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LewisCouch

Has the Shiavo autopsy produced conclusive evidence to support the above hypothesis? Certainly, if any portion of her brain were "liquefied", it would have been all over the MSM.

A number of scans over the past decade have shown that her cerebrum is completely gone, replaced by cerebrospinal fluid. There was some debate about whether there may have been tiny portions of cerebral structures left around the edges of the cavity that used to be her cerbrum, but even if there were it would not have made much difference because so much of the brain was simply absent. And it WAS all over the media, but for some reason people either just didn't understand or didn't want to hear it. People who thought she could recover (including her parents) simply didn't understand that you cannot regrow brain tissue after this much damage, and establishing connectivity between the structures would have been all but impossible. "Experts" who said otherwise were largely discredited as uninformed or deeply biased by the fact that they were offering unproven and expensive "treatments" to the Schiavo family.

LewisCouch · 05-06-2005, 07:54 AM

Conclusive evidence from the results of the autopsy could provide a final answer to the overwhelming morass of details presented by medical experts of the Schiavo travesty.

Here's a link to an individual who is missing half her brain. Her CT scan looks as bad or worse to the untrained eye than Schiavo's. She is brain damaged but she is cognitive.

http://www.pbs.org/saf/1101/segments/1101-6.htm

We've all heard the statement that "we only use ten percent of our brains". The truth is is that medical science regarding the brain is still in it's infancy and some people just don't understand or don't want to hear that. My guess is that even if the results from the autopsy are made public, that they will prove inconclusive, and further, the MSM will ignore the story.

Personally I believe the poor woman should have been allowed to die a long time ago.

Again, the fireman has experienced a remarkable recovery showing us all that miracles can and do happen. I wish he and his family the best for their newly discovered futures.

05-05-2005, 04:58 AM	#2 (permalink)
JustJess Unencapsulated Location: Kittyville	Mostly, I think I'd feel guilty for them giving up all that time, energy, love, and exhaustion for 10 long years, and for missing all of that time too. Grateful as well, but very guilty. It's hard to say what kind of vegitative state he was in, but clearly he must have had brain activity of some kind for them to keep hoping like that. I've always said that if I'm brain dead, just kill me/let me die. I thought Terri Schiavo didn't have any brain activity?? __________________ My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

05-05-2005, 05:19 AM	#3 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	Actually, the article said he was almost in a persistent vegetative state. I hesitate to even bring this issue up again but the deal with Terri Schiavo was that there was essentially NO BRAIN LEFT for the drugs to work on. The part of the brain that handles higher functions like speech and cognition was just GONE, and even some of her brainstem functions (like swallowing) were gone. Essentially replaced by CS fluid. Lack of oxygen doesn't always have the same effect on people's brains, and clearly this guy had enough brain to sit up on his own in a wheelchair and, eventually, speak. Terri Schiavo had little non-reflexive motor capacity, and the parts of the brain that control speech were, as I've said, gone. Not just "nonfunctional" - GONE. Liquefied. This sounds like a COMPLETELY different situation, and just because the two cases have words in common like "coma" and "almost in a persistent vegetative state," don't go thinking that gosh, they pulled the plug too soon on Terri Schiavo. I'm thrilled that this treatment worked for this man - it must be terrifying to know that you've missed almost a decade of your life, and your family's lives, but how gratifying would it be for that family to finally have you back? They have some hard going ahead of them, with medical therapy and all the adjustments they'll need to make. None of them are going to be the same people the other remembers from 10 years ago. I wish them well. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France Last edited by lurkette; 05-05-2005 at 05:21 AM..

05-05-2005, 05:20 AM	#4 (permalink)
Meditrina Junkie Location: LI,NY	My first thoughts as reading this was about Terri Shiavo and how her family must feel right now. Did anyone ever try different medication combinations on her? Was her brain damage more severe than this man's? I will admit to not knowing alot about Terri's case, but one can't help but wonder. If I were to be awakened after all that time, I would feel truly blessed to have a family that would wait for me that long. I would never lose another minute loving them. __________________ "Toughness is in the soul and spirit, not in muscles." ~Alex Karras

05-05-2005, 07:16 AM	#7 (permalink)
LewisCouch Insane Location: Pacific NW	Has the Shiavo autopsy produced conclusive evidence to support the above hypothesis? Certainly, if any portion of her brain were "liquefied", it would have been all over the MSM. Although there are some similarities these two individuals share, direct comparisons to their respective medical conditions cannot be substantiated. Hopefully, this individual will recover enough to lead a full and happy life. I cannot imagine his confusion. __________________ "The gift of liberty is like that of a horse, handsome, strong, and high-spirited. In some it arouses a wish to ride; in many others, on the contrary, it increases the desire to walk." -- Massimo d'Azeglio

05-06-2005, 07:54 AM	#11 (permalink)
LewisCouch Insane Location: Pacific NW	Conclusive evidence from the results of the autopsy could provide a final answer to the overwhelming morass of details presented by medical experts of the Schiavo travesty. Here's a link to an individual who is missing half her brain. Her CT scan looks as bad or worse to the untrained eye than Schiavo's. She is brain damaged but she is cognitive. http://www.pbs.org/saf/1101/segments/1101-6.htm We've all heard the statement that "we only use ten percent of our brains". The truth is is that medical science regarding the brain is still in it's infancy and some people just don't understand or don't want to hear that. My guess is that even if the results from the autopsy are made public, that they will prove inconclusive, and further, the MSM will ignore the story. Personally I believe the poor woman should have been allowed to die a long time ago. Again, the fireman has experienced a remarkable recovery showing us all that miracles can and do happen. I wish he and his family the best for their newly discovered futures. __________________ "The gift of liberty is like that of a horse, handsome, strong, and high-spirited. In some it arouses a wish to ride; in many others, on the contrary, it increases the desire to walk." -- Massimo d'Azeglio

05-05-2005, 08:28 AM	#9 (permalink)
IanSturgill Crazy Location: Lex Vegas, KY	it's awesome that he didn't die. i'm generally a very cynnical person, but going into burning buildings by choice is very chivalrous.