Grasshopper Green

http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/08....ap/index.html

WASHINGTON (AP) -- People in this country have a love-hate relationship with math, a favorite school subject for some but just a bad memory for many others, especially women.

In an AP-AOL News poll as students head back to school, almost four in 10 adults surveyed said they hated math in school, a widespread disdain that complicates efforts today to catch up with Asian and European students. Twice as many people said they hated math as said that about any other subject.

Some people like Stewart Fletcher, a homemaker from Suwannee, Georgia, are fairly good at math but never learned to like it.

"It was cold and calculating," she said. "There was no gray, it was black and white."

Still, many people -- about a quarter of the population -- said math was their favorite school subject, about the same number that preferred English and history, with science close behind, the poll found.

"It just came easy to me," Donald Foltasz, a pipefitter from Hamlin, New York, said about math. "When you got all done, you got answers. With English you could say a lot of words that mean different things, my interpretation might be different from any of the teachers. But with math, there's no interpretation -- two plus two is four."

Recent studies have suggested 15-year-olds in the United States lag behind those of the same age in Europe and Asia in math. Young people in many countries are stronger in the important subject of science, as well. Both subjects are critical in research, innovation and economic competitiveness.

Education experts say students should have a foundation in all core subjects -- such as math, English, social studies and science -- to become well-rounded citizens and skilled workers. Under the pressure of federal law, schools have put increasing focus on reading and math, the two areas in which they must make yearly progress or face possible sanctions.

The key to making children interested in math is to capture their imaginations at a young age, said Dianne Peterson, a fifth grade math teacher from Merritt Island, Florida. While she must spend part of her class time with basic tasks like multiplication tables and fractions, she tries to make it fun.

"I do a lot with music with them," Peterson said. "I've got some CDs that go over the facts. Some of it is rap and some of it is jazzy songs."

Compared with students overseas, students in this country tend to be stronger in math in elementary school and move progressively behind as they get into high school. Peterson said she thinks high school teachers aren't as inclined to nurture student's interest in a challenging subject like math.

When people are asked what subject they wish they had taken more of in school, they were most likely to mention foreign languages _ a feeling expressed more often in the cities and suburbs than in rural areas. That desire for more languages may have something to do with increasing numbers of immigrants, especially Hispanics, and foreign language is often a requirement for college.

"We are the only industrialized nation that routinely graduates students from high school with knowledge of only one language," said Marty Abbott, director of education at the American Council on the Teaching of Foreign Languages. "I think that says a lot about how other countries routinely build a multilanguage citizenry, and we do not."

More than half said they think children should get more education in both science and the arts.

Computers have become a major factor in elementary and especially high school education. Two-thirds in the poll said they think the use of a computer helps rather than hurts children with learning.

In fall 2003, nearly 100 percent of public schools in the United States had access to the Internet, compared with 35 percent in 1995, according to the Education Department.

"I think it can be an invaluable tool," said James Behrens, a retired postal worker who lives near Milwaukee, Wisconsin. "I have eight grandchildren and they're fairly computer literate. It's like having the world's best library, but it can take kids and make them pretty anti-social."

The AP-AOL News poll of 1,000 adults was conducted August 9-11 by Ipsos, an international polling firm, and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

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So how did you feel when you were in school? Did you love or hate math? I hated it. No matter how hard I tried, I never quite "got" it, and math was the one subject that always brought my GPA down. And it didn't matter the subject...trig, algebra, geometry. I sucked at all of them. I realize that it's an important tool, and I think I did worse in science because of it.

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cj2112

I hated it in school, but I was always pretty good at it. I think the main reason was that most of my teachers insisted on me showing my work, when for the most part I could do it in my head. I find it interesting that as much as I hated it in school, math problems are the major portion of my job. I determine material and hardware requirements for various projects and generate cutlists for a cabinet shop. It's all math, all day.

Slavakion

Compare that to English, where there is no black and white. Nothing can be certain. I hate that. In math, at least I always knew that I was wrong and that there was something definite I could do differently.

CSflim

Indeed. You cannot bullshit your way through maths, like you can in many other subjects.

A vote for loving maths.

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Bodyhammer86

Math is my worst subject and I've struggled with it my entire life. Thank God I have a small math requirement for my major.

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CSflim

my thoughts exactly.

If you want to improve your grades in English, it's not entirely obvious how you go about doing it...where do you start?

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shesus

I love math...I am the math geek in fact. I bought a College Algebra book just to do problems for fun. People made fun of me, but I compare them to crossword puzzles. Just something to keep your brain working.

As a teacher, I see many students hate math. They complain that they "Can't get it". I work hard with them and try to make it fun as mentioned in the OP. I make up stories and songs. Sometimes my excitement is contagious and they start to like math. Of course, in my school, the kids hate about every subject but Science. Science is hands-on and I love to do experiments. I try to incorpoate hands-on stuff in math, but it doesn't explode or change colors so no interest...

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Lasereth

It really depends on the teacher. In high school, I hated it because I had 3 bad teachers and 1 good teacher. In college, I've had like 5 bad and 1 good. So overall, I definitely hate it simply because there's a serious lack of teachers who can convey math to students very well.

-Lasereth

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Grasshopper Green

Hmmm...I've been thinking about this. English was always one of my best subjects; I was a good speller, understood English grammar, and always did my reading and writing assignments. I can see that different interpretations of literature could cause problems, but since we usually discussed that in class, that was never a problem for me. I wrote things that I'm sure my teachers didn't agree with, but as long as it was grammatically correct and fell within the boundaries of the assignment (write a satirical story, 3-5 pages), I got good grades.

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raeanna74

I can sometimes enjoy crunching numbers. I am not FAST at it at all. I always have trouble when copying number with inverting their order somehow or even trading digits between two numbers. For example the numbers 325 and 436 - I might write as 435 and 326. When I go back and re-read them I can never see the error. It's almost like I'm blind to it. I was in a special Math Olympiads in elementary school where they took the better students and taught them algebra. It was fun. Doing the schoolwork though. Because I was so slow it took me forever to do a lesson. Because I was always switching digits around I got everything wrong. I hated Math class. I actually enjoy math in some cases. NOT structured math class though. ICK!

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CSflim

wow. It's like number dyslexia or something...

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Siege

I can go either way. I'm kinda like cj2112. I could do all the work in my head, but my teachers made me write it all down.

I used to really like math when I was younger. But now it's just "ok"

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justjt

Hated math in high school...did it because I had to...or tried to get someone to do it for me. Thought I was to cool for school!

Hated math in college....did it because it was a required subject and credit needed...wished I had tried harder in high school and not tried to get someone to do it for me. Realized by then being cool in high school was not the best skill choice.

At this point in my life I only deal with the amount of math skills needed to make it through the daily grind.

If and when the time comes in my life that I have so much money in my bank account that I need to use letters with the numbers to count it.....I'll be able to just hire someone to do it for me. But hey thats just my lazy anti-math point of view.

Elphaba

In junior high, I had the great misfortune of being a test student in the "New Math", or as my instructor called it "Some Math, Some Garbage." I think that may have contributed to my math phobia and my total lack of comprehension in how it all fits together.

When I studied for the GRE, I ignored to other two sections just to bring my math knowledge up to "average." I got that 50, and 96 and 92 without studying for the other two. I really wonder about that "left v. right" brain theory between men and women.

ngdawg

In highschool, I never stuck to any one Math structure because I'd either fail or get D's. Algebra I will never get. I didn't go for my associates because Math was required.
Doing art, even on the computer, does require some basic math, even for matting, but I hate it. (and we won't even get into my checkbook balancing skills or lack thereof)

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Suave

I went for option 3, but that's not entirely the truth. I enjoy working with mathematics up to about the grade 9 level (simple algebra). After that, it becomes annoyingly vague, and there are too many formulas to remember and apply.

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spectre

I enjoy math, but I've had to take so many classes now that I'm just sick of it. I really disliked my calc classes, but loved diff eq and linear algebra.

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StanT

For me, math is just a means to an end. I never had any sympathy for people that didn't get it in high school, but by the end of my BS in Engineering, I was the one not getting it.

I enjoy the Physics and Mechanics, advanced math is just a necessary evil.

Pragma

I like number theory, cryptography, and physics. However, the really advanced calculus courses just suck. So I suppose I like math a lot more than I dislike it.

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mr sticky

This is how I view it. But with a slight difference. I can easily do the math if I am looking to figure out something in particular. I have no concept or drive to perform mathmatical calculations for their own sake. I find it mind numbing to do simple algebra equations, but I aced every chemistry test I had.
C's and D's in algebra but I had a 98% average in geometry for the year.

Go figure!? *me groans

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healer

I found that the only way to improve your English grades is to read. Books, magazines whatever. If you can find something to read that interests you even better. You'll come across words and phrases you don't know or understand and you'll wanna look them up or at least ask someone.

As for the Math, my mom is a Math teacher. So from day one its been drilled into me. I have a kind of love/hate relationship with it. Hate it when I can't seem to work something out, and love the feeling when I finally do. I still get a kick out of being able to help my sister with her high school trig and algebra

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ryfo

I loved the logic behind math, when the penny dropped everything just fell into place. That being said, sometimes for me at least the penny took a long time.

Stiltzkin

Until I was about 8 years old I had no opinion one way or another about math. Then my dad started forcing me to do times tables at home because they weren't forcing me to do them at school. I'm actually quite thankful, because even though my dad did this in a tyrannical way, I actually grew to love math. The highest level of math that I've taken is calculus in college. I plan to take a few more math courses before my time at college is over, if I can afford it, because I really love math.

What's scary is that I also really like English, and I've even recieved "honorable mention" for some of my essays. It's exactly like Medusa99 said: just do what the teacher told you to do. I remember that in my highschool English III AP class, the teacher asked us to write an essay analysing one of Emerson's essays. A friend of mine showed me his essay so that I could proof-read it, and as I read it, I noticed that it had absolutely nothing to do with the analysation of any Emerson essay ever written. It seemed that either my friend wasn't paying any attention whatsoever to the teacher when she told us what to write, or he's simply a dolt (I've known him for about four years now, and I can safely say that he is a dolt). Paying attention in class has a lot to do with your success in an English class. Also having a competent English teacher helps a lot. For my Freshman English course in high school, I had a football coach who was doubling as an English teacher. This guy wasn't exactly stupid, but he wasn't a master of English either. He would just rant on about how cool the Illiad is and the Odyssey and all that, but he would never explain anything, and the descriptions for the assignments were always vague--you can guess that he simply gave everyone good marks. If that's the only kind of English teacher you've ever had, then I can understand why you'd have a difficult time in English courses.

In college, my Freshman English course was pure crap as well, but my sophomore English course was much better, and was actually taught by someone with a Ph. D.
Needless to say, I received an "A" in that class. I also got an "A" in my calculus class. I have the transcript to prove it

Fremen

I hated mathematics, then and now, because I'm so bad at them.
But, at the same time, I recognize the beauty of them.

Math is a majestic snow-topped mountain, seen in the distance from my cell window.

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waltert

I was a big math whiz in 1-8th grade.

then in high school, I sort of coasted through without really learning anything.

in college, all of that came back to bite my arse. im finally getting back to where I ought to be.

I think high schools ought to be less afraid to fail students. If I thought I stood a chance of failing, I would have risen to the challenge...but there was never a challenge, therefore, I didnt learn the material.

matteo101

In grade nine and ten of highschool I had amazing math teachers, they gave me the interest to strive to put in the effort and therefore work very hard. I tried very hard, and pulled off decent grades. In grade eleven I had an absolutely terrible teacher, she turned me off from math, and ruined my like for it. Now adays, i am okay with simple math, and I actually took a bit of knowledge from my highschool days, but i still dont enjoy it, and im glad my university major is in arts and not science.

Redlemon

Or, as Tom Lehrer explained...

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highthief

Math was OK until I got to the higher maths - trig, calculus, etc - it took me 3 tries to pass calculus with a "D".

Hate math.

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Psycho Dad

I think that is pretty accurate. My highschool teachers were not too bad, but they could have done a better job explaining application. In college I didn't take pre-algebra and started with intermediate algebra. The intermediate algebra teacher was fantastic about explaining where different formulas and rules were applied in everyday life. It was hard but I got an A in his class. Next semester when I took college algebra, the teacher didn't seem to give two shits as to if anyone learned anything or not. I feel like I got an easy A in that class and didn't really learn anything new in it.

I have a feeling that the college algebra teacher was better at algebra than the intermediate one was, but the intermediate was far better at teaching it.

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filtherton

I took almost zero math in high school, thanks to the alternative school i went to. When i started college i tested into intro algebra. It turned out that i was really good at math and just cruised through algebra, struggled a bit before cruising through trig, then did the same in calc 1. After this semester i will have taken every math class offered by my school besides statistics. Math appeals to the part of me that wants truth. Math is arguably the only thing humans have created that allows for absolute certainty. I think doing math homework can be immensely satisfying, depending on the topic.

777

I'm kinda indifferent to math at this point. I'd be pretty good at it if I put the time in. For a time, I was considering becoming a math teacher. It's really a big bag of rules in a puzzle. And when ever the guys bring by a new game (board game, card game, RGP), I'm usually the first to learn and understand the games rules

And one gal asked for my number when I told her I was a math major

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RAGEAngel9

For me, I would never like or even really understand a concpt in math until it was applied to something in real life. This could be why I sucked at calc, we neveer really had any sort of real world phenomenon to compare it too. Diffy Q was easy once it was compared to circuits and springs, for instance.

raveneye

I love it and teach it, have published it, and tutor kids in math at all levels through calculus and statistics. I like the power it provides, and am always working on some problem or other, usually in evolutionary genetics.

I've worked with a lot of people who hated math, who very quickly learned to love it. Some folks, however, are just drawn to it naturally; I think it takes a willingness to tackle a problem purely visually and logically -- convert a picture into the corresponding equations. Verbal skills don't seem to help much at all, in fact they seem to get in the way.

Couldn't live without math

guthmund

I'm with Fremen. I understand enough to recognize the beauty in mathematics, but not enough to do well in the subject.

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Destrox

Bachelors in CS and a Minor in Mathetmatics and I hate math when it turns to theory and theorms.

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Charlatan

I never enjoyed math. I struggled with it from day one. When I had the option of dropping math after Grade 10 I did.

That said, I have grown to appreciate math and what it can do. There is a beauty to math. The thing is, I would rather hire someone to do it for me.

Give me a stage to act on. Give me two turntables and micorphone. Give me blank paper or a blank screen and I will fill it with words.

Just keep the numbers clear.

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maleficent

I was a math major, but I think I've forgotten anything i ever knew about math. Theory was never one of my favorite parts... (I suppose they had to do something for the liberal arts majors to make it fun for them) I liked that math was black and white, I was either right or wrong. and didnt have to rely on someone else's opinion or interpretation of what the answer was... (I loved history, but hated essay questions)

Statistics was sexy... now that was fun.. Geometry I never quite understood the use for, it was harder tha any of the algebras I took, it was just stupid.. I would have nightmares about congruent triangles coming to get me...

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RogueHunter65

I love math. I think it is exciting sometimes when you can manipulate numbers to figure out some interesting things.

I think there are a lot of people that hate math. I think this is probably comes about because once you fall behind in math, you are lost. People get to a point in math class where they don't understand whats going on at all. Math just keeps building on itself. If you never understood fractions, you can't solve for x, then you can't do calc, then you can't run confidence intervals in stat class. I think the best thing people like that can do is to ask questions in class and get a tutor to fill in the gaps in their knowledge.

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Da Munk

I hate math. It isn't that I don't understand it, I'm actually fairly good at it when I put my mind to it, but in the context of a classroom there are few things that I dislike more. Like was said before, the idea of doing endless calculations for no other purpose than themselves was never appealing to me. This coupled with the horrible teaching method used at my high school led to me avoiding math at all costs.

At the moment I hate math because I have to relearn all the formulas that I've forgotten since high school so that I can meet my general education requirement in college.

Slavakion

Me, too. I started reading at an early age, so spelling and grammar came naturally to me. I always have to stop myself from correcting other people.
Interpretation is my problem. I never got poetry or literary symbols. I always just regurgitated everything the teacher said. That's not what I like. I like actually understanding what I'm learning. Which brings me back to math: You either understand it and do well, or don't understand it and do poorly. (Although I'm sure everyone has tried BSing their way through certain math problems... I did that with those bastard trig identities until my teacher caught on.)