The War on Christmas
 

What is so bad about saying "Happy Holidays"? I've used that phrase for years, and I'm certainly no soldier in the "War on Christmas". Let's face it, not everyone is Christian. And there are numerous holidays, celebrated by other religions, that coincide with this time of the year. Is it that big of a deal? I, for one, don't think so. But, I tend to not make such a big thing out of situations such as a simple "Happy Holidays". Are people really getting that thin skinned? Do some honestly feel that threatened by it, or are they just out for attention?

This is such a non-issue. What is it? Does Bill O'Reilly have nothing better to rail against this week?

Seriously. We in North America live in multicultural societies. At one point we were nations made up of predominantly one religion, Christianity (and it's various branches). This is no longer the case. Many other cultures and religions are part of the make up of our nations. Why wouldn't we make the effort to be more inclusive rather than the opposite?

Happy Holidays is an inclusive statement. It doesn't exclude Christmas or any other celebration. It embraces all at the expense of none.

Get over it already and pass the fricken egg nog.

Everyone that I've encountered in the whole world knows that Dec is Christmas, some know that Hannakuh comes too, from Singapore to Iceland.

In other countries that have dominating religions, everyone SHARES in the days and greets each other accordingly. No erasing the word to make someone else feel better since it's not that big of a deal anyways to most.

Depalvi in India is celebrated in Singapore but the Buddhists don't celebrate it, but the at least acknowledge their fellow countrymen celebrate it.

Who cares anyway, Christmas is a made up holiday, it was originally a roman one to celebrate their god, the tree wasn't added until much later by Germans. And it actually being the birth of Jesus is highly speculative. Although i suppose it's better then just picking a day at random, but what I’m saying is if you're that into Christmas, you might want to look into its original meaning, less to do with Jesus more to do with pagans. So why care so much about a made up holiday, does it truly symbolize what people say it does, i don't think so. Almost everyone i know sees Christmas as the time of year you wait in line and receive/give craptacular gifts. So saying happy holidays not necessary from a secular standpoint if you can afford it why not say merry Christmas and a happy new year, too many words for some. Personally i couldn't care less. So I don’t think it’s a war on Christmas, it’s just a preference.

I think its gotten silly with the happy holidays. A better question is, is it offensive to wish someone a merry Chirstmas?

My wife does the Christmas card thing, and she got a box of 'happy holiday' cards for the non-Christian types, mostly Jewish. I told her to get some hanukkah cards instead.

So while I don't see saying happy holidays as a war on Christmas, I do see it as a cop out to the fear of being non-PC.

The "War on Christmas" is funny for about a few days each year. It's just a bunch of egotistical christians that want everyone to conform to their will.

Both sides of this argument are patently ridiculous. This is a total non-issue. I can only speculate at the motives of the people who are making such a fuss about it.

I have many friends who are observant jews. To a one, when wished a merry Christmas, will smile and say, "Thanks!". Or maybe, "I don't celebrate Christmas, but thanks! Merry Christmas to you!" Guess what? Non-christians actually don't get offended when you make assumptions about their faith. They're used to it. Most of my jewish friends LOVE Christmas, and are happy to be taking part in our celebration of it. One of them was really excited to be able to come decorate our tree with us yesterday.

On the other hand, what the hell does it hurt to have a little sensitivity? It's NICE to be respectful of other people and their faith. Christmas is all ABOUT being nice to people (cf. Eben. Scrooge, et al). Being wished "Happy Holidays" doesn't detract from my Christmas observance in the slightest. Are Christians really so offended to be reminded that there are non-Christians in the world at this, their most holy shopping season?

What's REALLY an attack against Christmas is those damn card-carying atheists who are celebrating an evil sham of American Right-Wing Norman Rockwell Christmas. Look! ratbastid doesn't even believe in Christ! And he's got a Christmas tree up! And LOOK!! Stockings! Hung by the chimney with care! HEATHEN! BUUUURRRN!!!!

Guilty as charged... :lol:

since when -- christmas is all about gimme gimme gimme gimme.. and being as rude as possible to people when out on the streets and in the malls...

bah humbug i say...

at least it's a creative stand....

That's not what it's about... that's what it has BECOME.

There is a difference.

In theory anyway

sounds about right :)

I call it Xmas... or Crimbo.

If I was to wish a Buddhist a 'Merry Crimbo', then I'm just telling him that:

I had a productive summer, I've survived the worst of the winter and to celebrate I'm going to eat and drink heavily for several consecutive days and I wish for that person to have the means and the time to do the same.

How could anyone possibly be offended by that?



#edit#

P.S. Saying 'Happy Holidays' most definitely constitutes a war on Christmas.

The folks at Landover Baptist Church appear to agree with Krupnik and Castellanos. They believe Santa is Satan. Get behind me Santa!

LINK

you'd be amazed at what people CHOOSE to be offended by... :)

I'm still bah humbugging ... :)

Shit like this is what happens when parties let their fringe groups flap their lips too much. I'm so sick of extremists on both sides dominating debate. I'm just as sick of liberals who get their panties in a bunch over hearing the word Christmas as I am of conservatives that get all offended by the word Holidays.

Why can't we just round up those people on both sides, drop them off on a remote island with a shitload of weapons and let them fight it out? Once the victors in 'War on Christmas' have been decided we can nuke the island and forget about them once and for all. Yeah, you won but you're still dead!!!

At least you are consistant ratbastid :thumbsup:

Being an atheist I have a tree up but only to celebrate my pagan heritage.

All hail Dagda!

you do know that Landover Baptist Church is a parody, right?

Battle Royale... the Christmas sequel!

The reason why this will never happen is that it is these fringe elements that fill the ballot boxes.

Well the Republicans are about to learn that you can't pander to extremists during the election year and then forget about them for the rest of the term. Democrats need to take note on this too.

The Landover Baptist Church is the only clear thinking religious organization in America.

Really? You're kidding!


/end sarcasm. :lol:

I was raised conservative, protestant, Christian. There were times that we had no tree, exchanged no gifts, and we NEVER pretended, or acknowledged Satan, I mean Santa, except with distain. We infact did not even wrap gifts with paper that had images of Santa on them.

As an adult, and parent, I took my daughter to see Santa. I will take my daughter to the Christmas program at church. There are many different religions and cultures who celebrate this time of year for many good reasons and I see no reason to throw out the whole celebration of a certain culture or religion simply because I don't agree with all of it.

I normally say Merry Christmas because that is what I grew up with and am most comfortable with. Even though Christ-Mass was considered a 'pagan' celebration by my religious peers. Protestants do not hold mass of any sort. But I celebrated it as a Christ centered holiday so called it by the most common name. I am not offended by someone saying Happy Holidays because it does acknowledge other celebrations as well and I am not going to take someone else's celebration from them simply because I don't PERSONALLY celebrate it.

The debate about having a Christmas tree here, I found interesting. A Christmas tree is not a purely 'Christian' image used in Christmas celebration. Christmas (as well as Halloween) has elements of many other religions. The Catholic church merged a few 'pagan' traditions into it's celebrations in hopes of making the pagans more comfortable with worshiping with the Catholic church.
Growing up my parents (in particular my mother) had a problem with putting up a tree of any kind and in the end allowed us to put one up so long as we did not put ANY gold or silver decorations on the tree. She based her belief on the reference in Jeremiah 10:2-5 where it refers to 'heathen' putting up a tree and worshiping it. "For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; theyfasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." So in some areas of the protestant faith, people believe that a Christmas tree is an idol and image that us pagans 'worship'. I ask you - how many of you have bowed down to your Christmas tree lately or prayed to it??

Happy Holidays? - go ahead and say it but don't you dare complain if I still say "Merry Christmas".

I really don't give a crap. When I see arguments like these it really just reminds me how stupid and petty people are.

WHY DOES ANYONE CARE?

No, and it's pretty fucking retarded to say so.

Happy Saturnalia.

yet another faux news non issue.
unlike most other such, this one is funny...the premise is an imperial daydream of universal christianity.....wall to wall, all the same....it should not be---- no-one who is not xtian and who finds themselves nevertheless participant in an xtian annual cycle should have the audacity to write or exchange seasonal greetings....why this is obviously an affront to xtians everywhere--presenting them with the fact that not everyone is like them during the time of year when dreaming about an xtian world is most appealing.

this is an evident index of angst amongst the folk who run the right media apparatus--alienation of the far right xtian base---this sad, tedious meme would bypass all contact with reality (again) and provide the far right xtian base with a reason to feel solidarity with a wider political context during those brief moments of reflection that punctuate sustained retail experiences.
like when you are standing in a line at a cash register waiting to pay.
while you read the information on the box of a computer game the main objective of which is to kill as many arabs as possible, say.
channel that irritation into something useful.
in this way, you see fox news trying to help.
yay faux news.
yay bill o'reilly.

I love it. :lol: Carry on, heathen. :)

It seems that people have started looking for anything to claim it offends them; "The War on Christmas" is just another one of these. I'm all for making sure that no one is offended, but it does seem to be getting ridiculous and petty.

Personally, I use "Merry Christmas" and "Happy Holidays". Sorry in advance if I do offend anyone. I really don't mean to.

It is my hobgoblin.

Look, when O'Reilly is the main spewer of "war on christmas" rhetoric, you gotta admit there's a right-wing faction at work. It's a completely absurd thing, being used, I suspect, to opportunistically rile up the religious conservative base. The religious support of the conservative agenda has been slipping lately, and nothing works on that demographic quite like righteous indignation.

That's all I'm gonna say about that, because this thread is in General, not Politics.

Huh. I was raised in a very similar environment (mostly Conservative Southern Baptist). In the same way I never knew from one year to the next how we were going to be allowed to do anything from trees to santa to whatever. OK, Santa was never any part of our holiday, but if Mom found Santa wrapping paper on sale, we'd use that (on the premise that it'd be ripped up and destroyed anyways...oye). Same with Easter.

I don't worry about that stuff anymore at all. And I'll say just about any crazy thing, including Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas--whatever happens to pop out of my irreverent, sacreligious mind at that moment.

By the way raeanna74, I'm always interested in your point of view, seeing how similar our upbringing seems to have been, and the things you do/way you live now. :D

To any kid (from 1 to 92), the phrase "Merry Christmas" has a whiff of thrill and magic to it that no other phrase in the English language can equal.

"Happy Holidays" is a lukewarm glass of water; "Happy Hannukah" or Kwanzaa don't do much for me either.

But Bill O'Reilly's war on Christmas? It's so laughable that my first reaction was: this can't be real, this is some sort of a parody?

If the Onion were to try to think up a parody of Bill whose purpose was to point out how ludicrous, petty, and obsessed he is, it's really hard to think of a better one than this.

In my hometown, the local university lit up their "Holiday Tree" this year just like they have done every year for the past several years (BIG ceremony with singing and speeches and hot chocolate, etc.). And they've always called it a "Holiday Tree." However, this year they suddenly made it onto the hit list of the Christmas Soldiers and boycotts were threatened, letters written, television reports filed, and donations pulled back. Next year, they'll have a Christmas Tree, even though nobody really cared (or even noticed) until this year that it was a "Holiday Tree."

Weird.

Now, on the flip side of that, I'm disappointed in businesses that are afraid of the word "Christmas" and they've trained and threatened all their employees to avoid the word at all costs.

It's the same mistake as above, just on a different side of the river.

If a Jewish person made a remark about lighting a menorah, would you jump up his ass and tell him it's a "Holiday Candlestick Holder?" Therefore, if the non-Christians would lighten up a little bit, then the Christian weirdos wouldn't have anything to protest and boycott (in theory). Let Christians have Christmas, let Jews have Hannukah, let Africans have Kwanzaa, and let Muslims have Eid El Fitr.

People always get into trouble when they start trying to ban things that belong to other folks. But then again, some people live for that shit.

yes, this issue is so unimportant it's unbelievable. i like holidays (general term) but i don't do a lot of well-wishing tied to specific days. unless it's "happy birthday."

i know people very concerned with whether target employees say MC or HH
HH is somewhat of a product of the PC culture, but it is also a fast way to say happy thanksgiving, merry christmas, happy new year...

i was wondering if "holidays" could be watered down some more
holy should not be acceptible with everyone. is anyone leading a war on holidays? bring on wintervale. it's an idea for next year, maybe.

i'd say christmas is safe. then again, the ACLU could sue to have the day stripped of it's status as a national holiday. that would be a great PR move on their part. meanwhile, we are free to run around buying stuff while fighting over semantics in the trenches of walmart entrances everywhere.

merry christmas, everybody...and happy new year, too...

I plead the fifth. :)

You don't have to be a christian to have a happy Dec. 25th. "War" seems a little extreme.

The war on Christmas is a manufactured controversy that gives pundit gasbags something to talk about.

It started in earnest when O'Reilly, a Fox talk show host had on a guest, John Gibson, who wrote the book, "The War On Christmas: How the Liberal Plot to Ban the Sacred Christian Holiday Is Worse Than You Thought".

John Gibson is a Fox news host. Gee, isn't that a coincidence? So, TV and radio gasbags all o're the land are screaming about this topic. I helped produce a talk show on a day this was the topic. When a caller asked why we were talking about it, the host said, "uh, it's one of those things they say talk radio is talking about." Which pretty much puts it in a nutshell.

Have a happy nutsacking!-

This seems to have been going on long before O'Reilly.. back when i was a wee one in my plaid skirt attending Most Blessed Sacrament.. the big push at Christmas came from the Knights of Columbus.. and that was the Keep Christ in Christmas campaign.. This was to counteract the people shortening Christmas to Xmas... or even happy holidays...

I think that was really a whole other thing than this latest. People have been saying, "keep the Christ in Christmas" for decades. Some who are less than aware what the X in Xmas means (the Greek X, "chi" was a symbol for Christ) also railed against that for a while, but since then the symbol has become fairly common knowledge.

Yes, Mal is right, this has been a topic prior to O'Reilly. I can remember rumblings about it back when I was a kid; usually about the use of Xmas.

Mostly it was an effort to remember the Christ in Christmas which is always a good reminder.

The recent drivel from O'Reilly is just another example of him trying to create mountains out of molehills. If he can just stir up enough mud something will stick.

"Happy Holidays" (holy days) is being used instead of "Merry Christmas" in an effort to not offend anyone but we all know the reason for all the hoopla at this time of year is because of Christmas and has nothing to do with any other religion's holy days.

I see nothing wrong with wishing people Merry Hannakah , Happy Kwanza, etc.. but these celebrations have nothing to do with Christmas so why try and roll them all up together into a "Happy Holy Day" type greeting. Maybe we should all just celebrate winter and use "Season's Greetings".

I would suggest to the retailers that they continue to use "Merry Christmas" since Christmas is the reason for all the gift giving/buying at this time of year.