Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > Chatter > Hall of Fame


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-29-2010, 03:18 PM   #1 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
Does the Desert Eagle suck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinn

There are only two types people who own these guns. Douchebags who want to look like badasses, and actual badasses (apparently) trying to look like douchebags. Unfortunately its about 99 of the former to every 1 of the latter.

Read more: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-...#ixzz0pRYN5ngC

Jinn - it is rather strange that you would choose to criticise the best quality big handgun which is made.

I suppose you want to be "edgy" and "counter-intuitive" by making unexpected comments - but in all seriousness - the Desert Eagle is a premium weapon - capable of shooting a man to death who is the other side of an interior wall.
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Last edited by Baraka_Guru; 05-30-2010 at 11:52 AM.. Reason: Spliced from a previous thread (see link in quote).
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 05-29-2010, 04:21 PM   #2 (permalink)
zomgomgomgomgomgomg
 
telekinetic's Avatar
 
Location: Fauxenix, Azerona
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous View Post
Jinn - it is rather strange that you would choose to criticise the best quality big handgun which is made.

I suppose you want to be "edgy" and "counter-intuitive" by making unexpected comments - but in all seriousness - the Desert Eagle is a premium weapon - capable of shooting a man to death who is the other side of an interior wall.
He's not being edgy or counter-intuitive at all. Desert Eagles are heavy, overpriced, tactically-useless, unreliable, and have low magazine capacity. They are not used by any combat or police force that I am aware of, and are primarily owned by posers with more dollars than cents, or ironically.
__________________
twisted no more
telekinetic is offline  
Old 05-29-2010, 09:17 PM   #3 (permalink)
Addict
 
Shadowex3's Avatar
 
Location: Florida
The Deagle's a horrible overweight, overpenetrating, underperforming piece of crap. The only thing I can see it genuinely useful for other than an "OSHITABEAR" emergency backup is for some kind of pseudo anti-material purpose and even then I'm pretty sure there is something else would work better. I thought it would be cool to make a magazine fed revolver and even I know this.

You guys keep him for the same reason someone might have a Judge loaded with flares, for entertainment, right?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hectonkhyres
I'm imagining crazed dwarves doing profoundly weird things. Urist McNutcase has developed a compulsion to jam anything colored blue up his anus, or alternately other peoples anuses

Last edited by Shadowex3; 05-29-2010 at 09:20 PM..
Shadowex3 is offline  
Old 05-29-2010, 10:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
zomgomgomgomgomgomg
 
telekinetic's Avatar
 
Location: Fauxenix, Azerona
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowex3 View Post
You guys keep him for the same reason someone might have a Judge loaded with flares, for entertainment, right?
From his posting history in this subforum (and being from the UK), he doesn't seem to have any real gun experience, but somewhere along the lines lost his saving throw vs. IMI propaganda. It's kind of like a guy arguing with a bunch of girls about what vibrator is best based on what he's seen in porn.
__________________
twisted no more
telekinetic is offline  
Old 05-29-2010, 11:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
Addict
 
Shadowex3's Avatar
 
Location: Florida
Woah now, lets not badmouth the wrong company. Israeli Weapon Industries just made one or two last minute changes before taking the contract to manufacture them, the gun was Magnum Research's design. Blaming the Israelis for this one is kinda like blaming a fab lab in china for your pentium thinking .49999958 is close enough when talking about caliber.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hectonkhyres
I'm imagining crazed dwarves doing profoundly weird things. Urist McNutcase has developed a compulsion to jam anything colored blue up his anus, or alternately other peoples anuses

Last edited by Shadowex3; 05-29-2010 at 11:41 PM..
Shadowex3 is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 01:43 AM   #6 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
Perhaps I know less about vibrators than telekinetic, I dont know what his knowledge base is, but no girl I was seeing has ever needed one as far as I'm aware

But thats not got anything to do with guns.

The fact I have never fired a gun doesnt mean that I dont have an opinion about them, just the same as I dont need to wrestled a pitbull to know thata 300 lbs is stronger than a 100 lbs dog.

It is widely accepted by all experts in the field that IMI are the best gun manufacturer in the world. The Desert Eagle is an iconic and extremely powerful hand gun. IMI make more reliable smaller handguns, but in the aspect the Desert Eagle is designed for - the maximum power for a handgun - it is second to none. The wide usage of this gun in video games and movies is evidence of its peerless design and functioning capability.
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 03:50 AM   #7 (permalink)
Addict
 
Shadowex3's Avatar
 
Location: Florida
My god it's like popping a front-wheelie on a bicycle right before endoing, I know what's going to happen but I just can't stop myself...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous View Post
The fact I have never fired a gun doesnt mean that I dont have an opinion about them, just the same as I dont need to wrestled a pitbull to know thata 300 lbs is stronger than a 100 lbs dog.
A titanium machete weighs a lot less than a wrought iron one and you can use the former to cut the latter in half...

Quote:
It is widely accepted by all experts in the field that IMI are the best gun manufacturer in the world. The Desert Eagle is an iconic and extremely powerful hand gun. IMI make more reliable smaller handguns, but in the aspect the Desert Eagle is designed for - the maximum power for a handgun - it is second to none. The wide usage of this gun in video games and movies is evidence of its peerless design and functioning capability.
Being a great manufacturer means their parts quality and QA is great, it doesn't mean that someone else's terrible design will magically stop sucking. If it worked like that we could end world hunger by having McDonalds touch everything and suddenly everyone would get fat.

IWI (they changed names) does design some of their own guns and they usually are pretty damn good given what's required of them, but the Deagle was not one of their in-house designs.

Furthermore it's not the maximum power for a handgun as there are many others of greater power, higher caliber or both.

Lastly the wide use of it in videogames and movies means really fuck all since pretty much every videogame will alter performance to suit game balance needs and movies will also show you able to fire any gun for pretty much as long as you want without reloading. According to movies the Mac10 has the highest magazine capacity of any man-portable weapon in existence since characters regularly fire upwards of 5,000 rounds from them before reloading.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hectonkhyres
I'm imagining crazed dwarves doing profoundly weird things. Urist McNutcase has developed a compulsion to jam anything colored blue up his anus, or alternately other peoples anuses
Shadowex3 is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 06:17 AM   #8 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Quote:
It is widely accepted by all experts in the field that IMI are the best gun manufacturer in the world.
Name one. Name me an expert in the field who has said this. Citations would be nice, but let's just hear the name.

Quote:
in the aspect the Desert Eagle is designed for - the maximum power for a handgun - it is second to none.
You're way behind the times. Ever heard of the Smith & Wesson X-Frame revolvers? The .500 and .460 S&W Magnums are both vastly more powerful, the .500 Magnum horribly unpleasantly so. With a 325-grain projectile, the .50 Action Express generates 1229 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle, which is quite a lot. However, the .460 develops 2826 ft/lbs with a 300-grain bullet, and the .500 gets 3031 ft/lbs from a 350-grain bullet. So using projectiles in the same weight-for-charge range, the .50 Action Express (the Desert Eagle's primary round) is at a nearly 3/1 disadvantage. Both of these hip-howitzers have been around for about five years now. They're not good for much except bear protection and long-range big-game handgun hunting (popular for wild hogs, elk, etc), but they're -very- good for that.
The_Dunedan is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 06:18 AM   #9 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
I dont think there is any gun which can be used one handed by an average person which has the same power. Obviously you could shoot a shotgun one handed and claim its a more powerful handgun, but youd likely break your wrist or something.
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 06:26 AM   #10 (permalink)
Junkie
 
What in the world made you think an average person can use the Desert Eagle effectively with one hand? Watching Snatch one too many times? It's not designed for that, and most people are simply not -capable- of that. Trust me on this one, Strange; I'm the guy who gets the trade-ins. And by the way, who's that expert I asked about? Answer the question, if you please.
The_Dunedan is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 07:11 AM   #11 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
The experts I speak of are the professionals who actually use guns - rather than private individuals who have to take into account things like cost that lead them to buy a cheap Austrian gun like a Glock for example

For example, you only need to check Wikipedia:

"The Uzi has been exported to over 90 countries.[2] Over its service lifetime, it has been manufactured by Israel Military Industries, FN Herstal, and other manufacturers. From the 1960s through the 1980s, Uzi submachineguns were sold to more military and police markets than any other submachinegun ever made."

I suppose those people bought Uzi's because it was the best gun made by the best manufacturer.

Would you deny that Israel is the best equipped military force in the middle east? No doubt this is because they have access to IMI weapons
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 07:27 AM   #12 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Quote:
The experts I speak of are the professionals who actually use guns
You mean like soldiers, cops, professional competition shooters, gun-shop owners, gunwriters...? Name one.

Quote:
rather than private individuals who have to take into account things like cost that lead them to buy a cheap Austrian gun like a Glock for example
You mean like the IDF...the Israeli Defense Force? You know...the lads and lassies who carry Glocks. You've been caught spouting this before, y'know: Wikipedia supports that the 941 is issued to the Israeli Security Forces. However, this is the Israeli equivalent of Scotland Yard or the FBI. The IDF issues and fields the Glock Mdls 17 and 19, which are also the most popular weapons among reservists according to my suppliers at FAB Defense and MAKO Group in Tel-Aviv. And as for private shooters having to take cost into account: you have no idea how much help and sponsorship a truly competitive shooter can get in the US, do you? Suffice it to say that if Todd Jarrett or Rob Leatham was to endorse IMI and use a Jericho in races and demos, they'd be all set. Gun, mods, clothes, mags and ammo: all paid for. Gun companies pay these guys a lot of money to advertise their product and use it in international competition. Ask yourself why, if the Glock/1911/CZ is so inferior, are the pros using it and not the IMI? Especially when any gun company in the industry, IMI included, would happily crunch their own balls in a vise to get an endorsement like that?

As for your wikipedia link: yes, the Uzi may have been the most widely exported handgun from 1960-1980. However, as you've perhaps noticed, it is not 1980. It is now 2010, and the Uzi has largely been left in the market's dust. HK ate their lunch a long time ago.

Quote:
Would you deny that Israel is the best equipped military force in the middle east?
Not for a moment.

Quote:
No doubt this is because they have access to IMI weapons
No, this is because they have access to American money, weapons, and technology at cut-rate prices or for free.

I'm calling Troll here unless you can produce some actual sources. Names, links, articles, something to back up what you say. Produce an expert: lots of people in Tilted Weaponry read the international tactical/law-enforcement press, you'd be surprised who's names we'd recognize.

Last edited by The_Dunedan; 05-30-2010 at 07:30 AM..
The_Dunedan is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 08:10 AM   #13 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
If you dont believe it from me, go and read the wikipedia page for IWI

Obviously people have different opinions about what the best is, but clearly anyone who knows about guns would agree that IWI are amongst the most respected manufacturers.

If anyone is trolling, it is the guy claiming the Desert Eagle is a hopeless gun. It may be true that there are some other guns of similar power, but the differences are not material . The Desert Eagle has been reported to have caused fatality of someone shot through a wall - this is as much power as anyone needs. A Glock might be a good target shooting gun

But in fact a gun that is good for accuracy may not have the most power. This trade off between power/accuracy is well known amongst gun experts. So for a target shooter perhaps a Glock is suitable for them. For a person who wants a gun for self defence or criminal violence then they would probably prefer a gun they know has the power to kill whatever threat they face.
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 08:26 AM   #14 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Quote:
This trade off between power/accuracy is well known amongst gun experts
Name one. You know, like you said: someone who uses guns for a living. A soldier, a cop, a professional competitive shooter, a gun-shop owner, and gun-magazine writer, SOMEBODY.


Quote:
For a person who wants a gun for self defence or criminal violence then they would probably prefer a gun they know has the power to kill whatever threat they face.
Then I'm sure you'll have no trouble at all finding a few examples of military or police units which use the .50 Desert Eagle. Since, after all, they are very much interested in self defense and criminal violence.

Quote:
The Desert Eagle has been reported to have caused fatality of someone shot through a wall
So have .22 squirrel-guns. So have .38 Specials, .380s, 9x19, .40 S&W, 10mm, .45 ACP...

Face it, Strange, you can't produce any sources to back up your assertions because there aren't any. You insist that experts back you up, but can't name any. You insist that the .50AE is a superior round for self-defense against criminals, but I'll bet you anything you like you'll not be able to find a single police or military unit, anywhere in the world, that uses it. Even the IDF, your boys/girls in Israel, use Glock 17s in 9x19mm. You have no argument, and you're no longer even any fun to play with. I'm done.
The_Dunedan is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 08:35 AM   #15 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
No, I dont say a Desert E .50AE is necessarily the best gun to use in self defence or criminal violence, just that it is the best at what it is supposed to be - an over powered handgun which has a stylish appearance.

And in fact all I would need to do to prove my case in this discussion is to prove that it isnt the worst gun at what it does, which is what this thread is supposed to be about.
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 09:22 AM   #16 (permalink)
zomgomgomgomgomgomg
 
telekinetic's Avatar
 
Location: Fauxenix, Azerona
Quote from "Guns of the Matrix" by Mad Ogre, emphasis mine.

Quote:
Accompanied by the street cops is an Agent. They are the movie's super villains. They of course are armed with a much more sinister pistol than the Glock. The Desert Eagle is perhaps one of the most over played handguns in Hollywood. I'm not sure why that is exactly, but I guess it's because the D.E. looks good on film in the mind of a gun ignorant Director. It is a very large and heavy pistol designed to fire some of the most powerful cartridges available. From a scene later in the film we see a cartridge being fed into the chamber and it looks like the relatively new .50AE cartridge. Given unlimited resources of these Agents, I guess the .50AE would be the caliber of choice for your Desert Eagle. However I doubt the D.E. would be the gun of choice. These guns have a number of good points... Weight perhaps is number one. They are so heavy that they absorb so much recoil energy as to tame even the hottest loads. This makes firing powerful .44 magnum loads actually enjoyable instead of just painful. The design also uses a fixed barrel giving the pistol enhanced accuracy. This makes it popular among folks who like the challenge of handgun hunting. The downsides of the D.E. is that the pistol is ammo sensitive and has questionable reliability. Accuracy and power are both good, but reliability is a much more critical for a fighting gun. This is why the Desert Eagle pistols are actually rare on the firing ranges, and are never used by any fighting force... police, military or special ops. Yet you'll see it in movies about all the above. Go figure. Some folks have them and think highly of them, but I'm not one who does. At best the D.E. is a curiosity... an interesting pistol to play with, but impractical in any real world setting.
THE GUNS OF THE MATRIX

Credentials of author:
Quote:
About Ogre.

I am a gun owner. I am also a NRA Certified Pistol and Personal Protection instructor. I am an American....I served my Country in the US Army as an 11B Light Infantryman.]
Also, here's an "Ask a Rabbi" article about whether a Desert Eagle is a good purchase:
(again, emphasis mine)
Quote:
QUESTION: Dear Rabbi Mermelstein:

[....]I'm thinking about stepping up to the Desert Eagle .50AE, but several colleagues have advised me to resist the temptation, mainly because its muzzle flash, noise, weight etc. make it "impractical." I would use the Desert Eagle on the range and store it in a Gun Vault in my bedroom.

Presently, I use the same Colt Defender as my CCW and home-defense weapon. What's your opinion of the Desert Eagle?

Glenn Goodhart
30 Oct 1999


ANSWER: Dear Glen,
The Desert Eagle, being gas operated, is an extremely finicky handgun. The slow burning Ball powders that the cartridge requires necessitate frequent cleanings to remove the unburnt powder residue as often as every 50 rounds. Failure to adhere to a rigorous cleaning schedule will render the piece useless. Cast bullets are out of the question. Only FMJ or 3/4 jacket bullets will keep the gas port in the barrel from becoming fouled with lead. The removal of this clogging is a job for a gunsmith. A bronze phosphor bore brush will not do the job.

The pistol, itself, has all the ergonomics of a cinder block. It is heavy, and not at all suitable to concealed carry. Opinions are like belly buttons: everybody has one. The Desert Eagle has never appealed to me. If I needed a repeating handgun with more power than the .44 Magnum, I would buy the new Ruger Redhawk in .454 Cassul.

A public indoor shooting range that I used to frequent had a Desert Eagle for rental purposes. It was out of commission most of the time, though it was fired with .44 Magnum 240 gr. FMJ ammunition that was sold to them by my commercial ammunition factory at that time. W-W 296, H110, and AAC #9 were the only propellants suitable. All this was to no avail. That indoor range had to purchase a long-tem warranty from Action Arms to keep the contraption in working order. Turn around time was slow, and the firearm saw more time at the repair depot than in service. Pass it by. Any weapon that requires that degree of maintenence would never rate space in my gun safe.
Sincerely,

R. Mermelstein
GunOwnersAlliance.com - Ask the Rabbi: Desert Eagle .50 AE

Rabbi Mermelstein's qualifications:
Quote:
Rabbi Mermelstein has agreed to answer a limited amount of firearms-related questions for readers of the Gun Owners Alliance Web Pages. A life long gun owner, Rabbi Mermelstein had served in the US Army Infantry for three years during the closing years of the Vietnam era, attended rabbinical academies for nine years to earn his rabbinical ordination, and started his own company manufacturing ammunition for wholesale distribution throughout the country. He was the Handloading Editor for Petersen's HANDGUNS, featured on the masthead of that publication for 3 years. He is of course, an avid shooter and handloader. Additionally, Rabbi Mermelstein is has published a book on the history and evolution of small arms cartridges entitled, "Mermelstein's Guide to Metallic Cartridge Evolution".
__________________
twisted no more
telekinetic is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 09:47 AM   #17 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
You genuinely give credibility to the claim that one of "mad ogre's" qualifications to speak about this subject is "I am an American"?

The guy is entitled to an opinion, but I would say one quite strong argument against him being a credible voice is that his name is "Mad Ogre"

He is just a guy, who has an opinion. As the Rabbi clearly admits also to being.
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 11:00 AM   #18 (permalink)
zomgomgomgomgomgomg
 
telekinetic's Avatar
 
Location: Fauxenix, Azerona
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous View Post
You genuinely give credibility to the claim that one of "mad ogre's" qualifications to speak about this subject is "I am an American"?

The guy is entitled to an opinion, but I would say one quite strong argument against him being a credible voice is that his name is "Mad Ogre"

He is just a guy, who has an opinion. As the Rabbi clearly admits also to being.
This is an honest question here...are you intentionally trolling at this point?

Quote:
I am a gun owner. I am also a NRA Certified Pistol and Personal Protection instructor. I am an American....I served my Country in the US Army as an 11B Light Infantryman.
Quote:
A life long gun owner, Rabbi Mermelstein had served in the US Army Infantry for three years during the closing years of the Vietnam era,[...]and started his own company manufacturing ammunition for wholesale distribution throughout the country. He was the Handloading Editor for Petersen's HANDGUNS, featured on the masthead of that publication for 3 years. He is of course, an avid shooter and handloader. Additionally, Rabbi Mermelstein is has published a book on the history and evolution of small arms cartridges entitled, "Mermelstein's Guide to Metallic Cartridge Evolution".
__________________
twisted no more

Last edited by telekinetic; 05-30-2010 at 11:05 AM..
telekinetic is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 11:11 AM   #19 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
I am pointing out that this character is listing some things about himself:

1 - he owned a cgun
2 - he is part of a gun club
3 - he has at some point trained bodyguards
4 - he is American
5 - he used to be in the army

You have stated that these are his "credentials" by which I should take seriously his negative opinion of the Desert Eagle

To state my case more clearly, I can say

1 - gun ownership in America is not remarkable
2 - being a member of the NRA doesnt signify any special knowledge, just that he has paid a membership fee
3 - training bodyguards might require some knowledge of how to use a gun tactically, but no particular knowledge of how guns work or which is best
4 - I dont see the relevance of this point at all, perhaps you will advise why this is a credential? Or perhaps just accuse me of "trolling"
5 - Being in the army I would imagine you are restricted to army issue weapons. He would have to have a good working knowledge of one or two particular guns that were issued to him - in terms of how to clean it etc, but not real technical knowledge about guns in general

Now, this "Ogre" guy might know a lot about guns, but nothing he said or that you have said about him gives me the reason to think so. The Rabbi sounded far more knowledagble, and what he stated was that in his personal opinion the Desert Eagle wasnt a good gun for use in self defence because it was tempermental and required a lot of looking after

And you know, a Ferrari requires a lot more looking after than a Ford. That doesnt mean that in every way a Ford is a better motor than a Ferrari, does it?
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 12:43 PM   #20 (permalink)
zomgomgomgomgomgomg
 
telekinetic's Avatar
 
Location: Fauxenix, Azerona
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous View Post
I am pointing out that this character is listing some things about himself:

1 - he owned a cgun
2 - he is part of a gun club
3 - he has at some point trained bodyguards
4 - he is American
5 - he used to be in the army

You have stated that these are his "credentials" by which I should take seriously his negative opinion of the Desert Eagle
So if you do not consider NRA member, gun owner, pistol instructor, personal protection instructor, and former Light Infantryman valid qualifications for evaluating a firearm, what exactly would you consider? You have provided no more qualified opinions other than your own hearsay, and you lack all of the above.

Quote:
The Rabbi sounded far more knowledagble, and what he stated was that in his personal opinion the Desert Eagle wasnt a good gun for use in self defence because it was tempermental and required a lot of looking after
He said that it had poor ergonomics, that there were better alternatives with similar power, and that it was unreliable to the point that he would never consider owning one. He didn't say anything about self defense, other than the fact that it was in response to a question regarding one.

Quote:
And you know, a Ferrari requires a lot more looking after than a Ford. That doesnt mean that in every way a Ford is a better motor than a Ferrari, does it?
Who do you think has gotten more military contracts, Ford or Ferrari? Ferraris, while completely impractical, at least wins races with their cars, while no one serious uses Desert Eagles in any kind of competition. Unless you were just trying to equate them to each other as 'expensive impractical toys', which I'll happily concede.

Do you even know what you're arguing any more? You've evolved your stance from:

Quote:
best quality big handgun which is made....the Desert Eagle is a premium weapon
("it's the best quality!")
Quote:
It is widely accepted by all experts in the field that IMI are the best gun manufacturer in the world. The Desert Eagle is an iconic and extremely powerful hand gun.... The wide usage of this gun in video games and movies is evidence of its peerless design and functioning capability.
("It's made by the best company, and it's iconic, with peerless design and function!")
Quote:
I dont think there is any gun which can be used one handed by an average person which has the same power.
(It's the most powerful!)
Quote:
It may be true that there are some other guns of similar power but the differences are not material . The Desert Eagle has been reported to have caused fatality of someone shot through a wall - this is as much power as anyone needs.

But in fact a gun that is good for accuracy may not have the most power. This trade off between power/accuracy is well known amongst gun experts. ....For a person who wants a gun for self defence or criminal violence then they would probably prefer a gun they know has the power to kill whatever threat they face.
("Maybe some other guns are as powerful. But it's powerful enough to shoot through a wall! It may not be accurate, but it has enough power for self defense and those intending criminal violence to kill people with!")

A side note here: Because of the fixed barrel design, these pistols (when loaded with the right ammo) are actually quite accurate...on the first shot. Due to their size and weight, and the power of the 50AE, getting back on target for follow up shots, however, is slow and difficult, compared to conventional calibers. Sorry for the actual firearm information threadjack.

Quote:
No, I dont say a Desert E .50AE is necessarily the best gun to use in self defence or criminal violence, just that it is the best at what it is supposed to be - an over powered handgun which has a stylish appearance.

And in fact all I would need to do to prove my case in this discussion is to prove that it isnt the worst gun at what it does, which is what this thread is supposed to be about.
("I didn't say it was the best...just that it's powerful and stylish. And that it isn't the worst!")

So which is it: It's the best, or it's not the worst? Or it's the best at "what it's supposed to be," which is a bit ambiguous? What exactly is it the best at? What situation, exactly, is it a better tool for than any other more mainstream firearm? Or are you, in a roundabout way, conceding that it's an interesting looking toy, but completely useless as a working gun, thus giving complete credence to the fact that it is primarily owned by people who don't plan on using their guns for any useful purpose beyond going 'bang'.

I've provided what I consider to be expert opinions on the subject matter (although The_Dunedan's is equally qualified, in my mind), I would like to see you produce some of your own.
__________________
twisted no more

Last edited by telekinetic; 05-30-2010 at 12:46 PM..
telekinetic is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 12:56 PM   #21 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
I cannot imagine that anybody uses a gun for any other purpose than to go "bang" or carry the threat of doing so.

I am stating that the Desert E is the best gun of its type in terms of design.
That in material terms it more powerful or as powerful as any other gun
That because it is made by one of the best manufacturers of small arms, it is of the highest quality

Yes, because it is such a big beast there is some trade off in terms of its accuracy and the level of care needed for it, but this is the same for any very powerful gun.
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 01:06 PM   #22 (permalink)
Junkie
 
So let's review.

The Desert Eagle is very accurate, has a detachable magazine, and fires a very powerful round.

However:

The ergonomics are hardly practical for fast reactions.
It is too powerful to be practical for defense against humans.
It is too unreliable to be practical for defense against anything big enough to require such a powerful round.

Therefore:

Yes. Except for a very limited number of applications (handgun hunting on non-dangerous game, long-range target shooting) the Desert Eagle sucks. In all respects, it is totally outclassed by large revolvers offered by Smith & Wesson, Colt, Ruger, and even IMI (with the BFR.)
The_Dunedan is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 02:06 PM   #23 (permalink)
zomgomgomgomgomgomg
 
telekinetic's Avatar
 
Location: Fauxenix, Azerona
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous View Post
I cannot imagine that anybody uses a gun for any other purpose than to go "bang" or carry the threat of doing so.
Then why are you even engaging in this discussion?

Reasons people need a gun other than going 'bang' (also known as plinking):

IPSC competitions
Home/business defense
Self Defense
Military use
Law enforcement use
Professional personal protection
Hunting

The Desert Eagle is ill-suited to all of these with the possible exception of the last, and that only because hunters enjoy a challenge. People will try hunting with anything (crossbows? bows? Absurd revolvers? 22 pistols?), particularly if it adds to the difficulty!

Quote:
I am stating that the Desert E is the best gun of its type in terms of design.
What does that mean? What is it designed to do, that it is the best at?
Quote:
That in material terms it more powerful or as powerful as any other gun
Measurably false. 500 S&W Magnum, .454 Casull and the .460 S&W Magnum are all more powerful. In 50AE, it might have the dubious niche title of "highest ft/lbs of force produced by a large-run production semiautomatic handgun when loaded with handloaded hot ammunition". It's not even the only gun in that caliber, though.

Quote:
That because it is made by one of the best manufacturers of small arms, it is of the highest quality
OK. It's made by a good manufacture. Does that make it a "good gun" (meaningless without a context of something it is 'good at'), or counteract its known unreliability or pickiness about ammunition? An unreliable design manufactured with high-quality processes doesn't magically become more reliable.
Quote:
Yes, because it is such a big beast there is some trade off in terms of its accuracy and the level of care needed for it, but this is the same for any very powerful gun.
Again, a lack of accuracy is ironically the one this pistol is not accused it of--Because of the fixed barrel, it can be very accurate. Statements like this show you are just talking out of your ass, rather than relaying any kind of actual knowledge. Unless you can you outline WHY exactly we are accusing it of being unreliable, your assertions that these factors are invalid don't carry much weight (there are specific reasons inherent to the design that make it unreliable). Your apologies for its lack of accuracy show you do not understand its design. I'm not sure what else to add here.

---------- Post added at 03:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 PM ----------

For the peanut gallery, and Strange Famous, a quick lesson in the Desert Eagle's action:



The tealish barrel assembly is fixed to the brown frame. There is a thin passage through the barrel assembly all the way to the end, which allows gases produced by a cartridge's ignition to push back a piston, green. What's not totally clear from this cutaway view is that the green piston is attached to the green bolt/slide assembly outside the frame, and those two parts are the only bits of the pistol that recoil. Here is a picture of it in its 'cocked' condition (pardon the watermark) which shows how the piston is attached to the bolt and slide:


Here's a picture from the patent that makes it more clear:



The advantage to this mechanism is the barrel remains fixed at all times, improving accuracy, and you can use high power rounds which would overpower a more traditional cycling method. The disadvantage is that you have a thin gas inlet to a tiny gas pathway right next to your feed ramp, and if your ammunition has a particularly 'dirty' burn, or if the projectile is soft enough that small fragments might be scraped off as the bullets are chambered, this passage can become blocked, and the pistol will stop feeding new rounds.

Edit: I forgot, a second disadvantage is your pistol needs to be large and heavy to accommodate the gas piston mechanism.
__________________
twisted no more

Last edited by telekinetic; 05-30-2010 at 02:42 PM..
telekinetic is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 02:22 PM   #24 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
It is quite simple really to understand why the accuracy is questionable. Because of the power the gun has a powerful kick and it is harder to aim and fire rapidly.
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 02:38 PM   #25 (permalink)
zomgomgomgomgomgomg
 
telekinetic's Avatar
 
Location: Fauxenix, Azerona
It apparently ISN'T simple, as you don't seem to understand it. Rate of fire has nothing to do with accuracy, and (as long as someone is an experienced shooter who hasn't developed a trigger-flinch) neither does power or 'kick'.

The kick and weight make it harder to bring quickly to a target, and bring back to a target for followup shots, but the design of the gun is inherently MORE accurate than, say, a Glock/1911/etc...on par with revolvers, in fact, if not slightly better, due to lack of variability caused by the forcing cone.

Here is a Desert Eagle modified with a longer barrel and scope for either long range target shooting or hunting, specifically because of the inherent accuracy.

__________________
twisted no more

Last edited by telekinetic; 05-30-2010 at 02:41 PM..
telekinetic is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 02:39 PM   #26 (permalink)
eat more fruit
 
ChrisJericho's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous View Post
The wide usage of this gun in video games and movies is evidence of its peerless design and functioning capability.
This gave me a good laugh, thank you.
__________________
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows us that faith proves nothing." - Friedrich Nietzsche
ChrisJericho is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 03:56 PM   #27 (permalink)
Future Bureaucrat
 
KirStang's Avatar
 
Respectfully SF, why do you keep taking up arguments which are not only wrong but completely ignorant?

The Desert Eagle is not 'one of the best quality big handguns made.' Nor is the popularity of the Desert Eagle in media evidence of its quality. You forget that in the media, silencers make a 'pew' sound, good guys can hit anything while diving and running, and nobody ever needs to reload. However, in real life, the majority of suppressed guns are many dBs above the hearing threshold of pain(with the exception of some subsonic round/suppressor combos) and it's also near impossible to shoot accurately while moving.

Which is to say, the media knows squat about firearms and a firearm's popularity with the media is not an accurate barometer of its design.
KirStang is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 04:54 PM   #28 (permalink)
Addict
 
Shadowex3's Avatar
 
Location: Florida
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous View Post

Would you deny that Israel is the best equipped military force in the middle east? No doubt this is because they have access to IMI weapons
Again I'm going to have to differ from both of your opinions here and point out that it's not that difficult to do better than someone whose primary strategy is to run at the enemy and then blow themselves up.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hectonkhyres
I'm imagining crazed dwarves doing profoundly weird things. Urist McNutcase has developed a compulsion to jam anything colored blue up his anus, or alternately other peoples anuses
Shadowex3 is offline  
Old 05-30-2010, 05:29 PM   #29 (permalink)
Dopefish
 
wraithhibn's Avatar
 
Location: the 'Ville
SF how many guns have you shot to compare to shooting the DE50? To make all of the claims that you make, you need to post your own qualifications for making these claims when you are discredditng others. I've shot a good number of different weapons, I prefer Smith and Wesson because they make quality products and have good customer service. What are your experiences with iWI?
__________________
If you won't dress like the Victoria Secret girls, don't expect us to act like soap opera guys.
wraithhibn is offline  
Old 05-31-2010, 12:20 AM   #30 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
I have never fired a gun in my life... as a UK citizen this is not surprising.

I dont know why there is this obsession with thinking you have to practically have done something to have knowledge about it.
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 05-31-2010, 12:33 AM   #31 (permalink)
zomgomgomgomgomgomg
 
telekinetic's Avatar
 
Location: Fauxenix, Azerona
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous View Post
I dont know why there is this obsession with thinking you have to practically have done something to have knowledge about it.
Because it's usually true--and in this instance, demonstrably so.

Arguing that you shouldn't have to have to have experience to have knowledge about something rings a little hollow in a thread where your opinions (presented as unnamed expert-sourced knowledge, which, when pressed, you refuse to provide citations for) about the topic in question have been systematically and comprehensively proven to be false, over and over.
__________________
twisted no more
telekinetic is offline  
Old 05-31-2010, 01:36 AM   #32 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
How have I been proven wrong?

I stated that the Desert E was not the worst gun of its kind, and most people in this thread agree with me.

Through the application of common sense and widely accepted knowledge, one can come to the correct and factual conclusions without having to have fired weapons yourself. In fact you will see on the weapons forum many times when I have had to correct errors made by people who have far more practical experience than me.
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 05-31-2010, 04:29 AM   #33 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Quote:
In fact you will see on the weapons forum many times when I have had to correct errors made by people who have far more practical experience than me.
BAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!

Oh GAWD you're funny! Please, please, I'm begging you; what are these errors? Who were these people you "corrected?" I'm dying to know, Strange; show us where you "corrected" all these people and who they were. Be specific and show the sources/links. You've now made a demonstrable claim that is 103% bullshit, and I'm calling you on it.

Quote:
Through the application of common sense and widely accepted knowledge
Here's a hint: When you're asserting that something is "common sense" and you find that this "something" is rejected universally by people who work in a given field or who are recognized as authorities therein by those who do, it's probably -not- "common sense." Likewise, when you assert that something is "widely accepted knowledge" but find that, again, it is rejected by experts/authorities in the field, it's a clue that either your "knowledge" is not widely accepted or that your "knowledge" is crap. And since you've yet to produce any support whatsoever, from any quarter, for any of your ridiculous ideas, you might wish to consider where this motivates informed people to file your "knowledge".
The_Dunedan is offline  
Old 05-31-2010, 06:45 AM   #34 (permalink)
I'm calmer than you are, dude
 
Walt's Avatar
 
Location: North Carolina
I retract my previous statements.

SF's opinions are valid due to the mere fact that he has gone to the trouble of forming them. He needs to offer no support of his arguments and opinions; he weighs 300 lbs. Should any of you express an opinion formed through personal experience or professional training, know that your opinions are no more valid than SFs. If any of you are unenlightened enough to ask SF to support anything he says, you obviously are lacking in the application of common sense and widely accepted knowledge. Armed with a stout wooden staff, he is more than capable of killing a 100 lbs pit bull (he weighs 300 lbs) whilst pleasuring any and all women he encounters. Were he not so busy correcting errors of folks who possess more practical experience than he does, he would single handedly put the UK vibrator manufacturers out of business.

You all should be ashamed (I'm looking at you Dunedan).
__________________
Calmer than you are...

Last edited by Walt; 05-31-2010 at 07:56 AM.. Reason: I have seen the error in my ways
Walt is offline  
Old 05-31-2010, 10:04 AM   #35 (permalink)
Soylent Green is people.
 
longbough's Avatar
 
Location: Northern California
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Dunedan View Post
Here's a hint: When you're asserting that something is "common sense" and you find that this "something" is rejected universally by people who work in a given field or who are recognized as authorities therein by those who do, it's probably -not- "common sense." Likewise, when you assert that something is "widely accepted knowledge" but find that, again, it is rejected by experts/authorities in the field, it's a clue that either your "knowledge" is not widely accepted or that your "knowledge" is crap. And since you've yet to produce any support whatsoever, from any quarter, for any of your ridiculous ideas, you might wish to consider where this motivates informed people to file your "knowledge".
Well put.

But SF has been pretty successful as far as 12 year old trolls go ....
__________________
"I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence. Thus when my eldest son asked me what he should have done, had he been present when I was almost fatally assaulted in 1908, whether he should have run away and seen me killed or whether he should have used his physical force which he could and wanted to use, and defended me, I told him that it was his duty to defend me even by using violence." - Mahatma Ghandi
longbough is offline  
Old 05-31-2010, 10:17 AM   #36 (permalink)
zomgomgomgomgomgomg
 
telekinetic's Avatar
 
Location: Fauxenix, Azerona
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous View Post
How have I been proven wrong?

I stated that the Desert E was not the worst gun of its kind, and most people in this thread agree with me.
Moving the goalposts, really? Are you lying about your original point to try to avoid admitting you were wrong, or do you actually somehow believe that anyone in this thread agrees with you about anything regarding the Desert Eagle? Let me just state to remove all ambiguity: I do not agree with anything you have said about the Desert Eagle in this thread.

At this point I am no longer assuming good faith on your part, as I can't comprehend someone with your posts in this thread looking at the replies and declaring 'most people in this thread agree with me' without being intentionally trolling (that is, lying intentionally to stir up controversy) or so disconnected from reality that nothing else I/we post will be able to penetrate your bubble of delusion.

Walk with me through three of your post fragments, in chronological order...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous View Post
the best quality big handgun which is made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous View Post
the aspect the Desert Eagle is designed for - the maximum power for a handgun - it is second to none.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous View Post
I stated that the Desert E was not the worst gun of its kind, and most people in this thread agree with me.
Enhance!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous View Post
the best quality big handgun
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous View Post
the aspect the Desert Eagle is designed for it is second to none.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous View Post
not the worst gun of its kind
ENHANCE!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous View Post
best quality
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous View Post
second to none.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous View Post
not the worst
So, based on this...am I correct in saying that, in your mind, "best" and "second to none" are suddenly synonymous with 'not the worst'?

In that case, I am the world's best lover, the world's best MMA fighter, the world's best pickup artist, and my ability to fly jets and my personal net worth are second to none.
__________________
twisted no more
telekinetic is offline  
Old 05-31-2010, 12:09 PM   #37 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
If you cut and paste three word quotes you can make almost anything up. I think it is quite clear what I have said, and it is pretty hard for anyone to dispute it

(hence all of these comments about vibrators, calling me a 12 year old troll, etc)

The Desert Eagle is the best designed weapon in its class in terms of its appearance. This is subjective, and some would disagree - but the fact that so many video games and movies use this shooter it shows that a lot of people agree with me

The Desert Eagle is the maximum power range of a single handed pistol. There may be some very expensive and specially modified guns that have theoretically more power, but the Desert E has as much power as it is materally comprehensible for a firearm of this kind to possess

I state quite simply that the Desert E is the best in these criteria, which are the criteria it iself aims to be judged by

Because it is made by IWI it also happens to be exceptionally well engineered.

_

As a target practice pistol is it the best? No

But to carry on the analogy others have used, that would be like saying a vibrator is useless because it cannot bring a woman the same level of sexual satisfaction that I can.

This is true, but to women who are single and who have boyfriends who are not skillful lovemakers - vibrators may prove valuable indeed for the job intended.
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 05-31-2010, 12:21 PM   #38 (permalink)
Junkie
 
rahl's Avatar
 
Location: Ohio
I've stayed out of this discussion so far, but can't take it anymore.

I have been a gun owner for over 25 years. I have had extensive tactical training with a handgun in the private sector.

I know absolutely nothing about the DE. Never shot one, nor care to. Not knowing anything about it, I can't possibly put forth an opinion that should be taken seriously.

This is something that you need to learn strange. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and are being proven wrong consistantly by people who actually do know what they are talking about. One can only assume that you are trolling, hence the comments.

What does a video game have to do with real life weapons? How does using one in a virtual/fictional setting give you any knowledge about it in the real world?
__________________
"Your life is Yours alone...Rise up and live it"
rahl is offline  
Old 05-31-2010, 12:45 PM   #39 (permalink)
I'm calmer than you are, dude
 
Walt's Avatar
 
Location: North Carolina
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous View Post
(hence all of these comments about vibrators, calling me a 12 year old troll, etc)
Don't forget "obese".

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Dunedan View Post
I'm begging you; what are these errors? Who were these people you "corrected?" I'm dying to know, Strange; show us where you "corrected" all these people and who they were. Be specific and show the sources/links. You've now made a demonstrable claim that is 103% bullshit, and I'm calling you on it.
We're still waiting, Strange.
__________________
Calmer than you are...
Walt is offline  
Old 05-31-2010, 12:48 PM   #40 (permalink)
Soylent Green is people.
 
longbough's Avatar
 
Location: Northern California
SF, you're just a troll.

I'm sure you do appreciate the aesthetics of firearms from the standpoint of anyone who watches Hollywood films or videogames ... but, unlike most folks, you don't seem to acknowledge that the real world is much different.

As you have never so much as handled or even touched a firearm in your life - your opinion on the matter is about as relevant as sex advice from a virgin who only watches porn.
__________________
"I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence. Thus when my eldest son asked me what he should have done, had he been present when I was almost fatally assaulted in 1908, whether he should have run away and seen me killed or whether he should have used his physical force which he could and wanted to use, and defended me, I told him that it was his duty to defend me even by using violence." - Mahatma Ghandi
longbough is offline  
 

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: https://thetfp.com/tfp/hall-fame/154657-does-desert-eagle-suck.html
Posted By For Type Date
H&K USP Compact : guns This thread Refback 05-02-2011 12:21 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:10 PM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360