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Old 03-02-2004, 06:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
*Nikki*'s Avatar
Location: Charleston, SC
Are you considered an independant woman?

My boyfriend reminded me the other day how much he likes an "independant woman" and I got to thinking about what the hell this means.

I think of myself as independant. I live alone, I support myself 100% without help from anyone, I am a part time student and a full time employee. I got the job I have all by myself without any help. In fact I do a whole lot of things by myself.

But here is the catch and the part that has got me wondering.

I don't like it.

I would rather have him with me 90% of the time. I would rather have a partner who helped pay the bills and help take off some of the stress of living alone. I would like to be married. To have someone always here to come home to.

So does this really make me codependant? Because it seems that I am not independant so much by choice....as circumstance.
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Old 03-02-2004, 08:57 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Location: Windy City
Maybe being independent means being ABLE to stand alone, not neccesarily that you like to be that way. I'm in a similiar position as you Nikki. It just feels like something is always missing from life if I don't have people to share my experiences with. I have a friend who say he likes being independent, and to him that means being alone, and doing things alone. I think the big difference between his independence and mine besides the fact we both have it is our own perspective on its place in our lives.
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Old 03-02-2004, 09:56 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Location: My own private world
I don't think that being independent has anything to do with whether you're alone or with another person. To me it means having the ability to be alone if you need to be and the ability to stand on your own if push comes to shove. The ability to formulate your own opinions and make your own decisions.

You may want to have someone with you, but you don't have to have someone with you. I'm not sure if that makes sense or not, but to me...that's the difference.
What the damn
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Old 03-03-2004, 02:43 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Location: at home
Originally posted by Eclipse26
You may want to have someone with you, but you don't have to have someone with you. I'm not sure if that makes sense or not, but to me...that's the difference.
I agree here. I'd usually rather have someone with me. Someone to talk to, cuddle with, etc. Someone to have fun with, share experiences, life, etc.

HOWEVER, I take care of myself. Through rough patches, where I was struggling to make it and just couldn't, my parents helped by letting me move back home during my divorce. I pay my own bills, I got my own job, I take care of myself, and I like it that way, too. I like not having to depend on someone. I think that's a difference between independent and dependent. I CAN take care of myself, I LIKE taking care of myself, but I like sharing my life. Even if I were to marry again, which someday I hope to, I still would want to know that I could take care of myself.

Anyone can be passionate, but it takes real lovers to be silly-Rose Franken
....absence makes me miss him more...
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Old 03-03-2004, 03:44 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Location: Elysium
the definition of an idependant woman is different from person to person I think. An independant woman for me is someone who stands up for herself and her beliefs. She's someone who's not afraid to speak her mind and doesn't take crap from no-one...
I have all the characteristics of a human being: blood, flesh, skin, hair; but not a single, clear, identifiable emotion, except for greed and disgust. Something horrible is happening inside of me and I don't know why. My nightly bloodlust has overflown into my days. I feel lethal, on the verge of frenzy.
I think my mask of sanity is about to slip.
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Old 03-03-2004, 06:09 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Location: east of the sun and west of the moon
I agree - being an independent woman means you could stand on your own, and that you don't rely solely on another person (or other people in general) for your own happiness. That doesn't mean that you can't acknowledge that another person does make you happy, but you're not one of those people who falls apart without a partner.

Incidentally, this put me in mind of this dopey flash thingy: http://www.rathergood.com/independent_woman/ My brother sent me the link a few years ago (before the whole spongemonkey commercial craze) and it still makes me giggle.
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

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Old 03-03-2004, 06:56 AM   #7 (permalink)
Location: Dallas
I'm with everyone....I could make it on mine onw....But I want to have someone there with me
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Old 03-03-2004, 08:09 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Location: Upper Michigan
Desiring another person to be with you isn't Dependent. It's normal for us to desire human companionship or even animal companionship - Why else would people want to deal with the animals poop just to have them around.

Independance in my opinion is being able to be content for a period of time by myself. Being about to take care of myself and being responsible for myself and my things. I can entertain myself, find things to do on my own, go out by myself even, and handle my own responsibilities without help. I enjoy having someone with me and help me though. That is normal.
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Old 03-03-2004, 09:40 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Location: Wales, UK
Yeah I totally agree. You dont have to be totally independent of love or love of company to be an independent woman. It just means that you could survive without a partner financially and emotionally.

I.e you are not dependent on having a man
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Old 03-03-2004, 01:02 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I'd like to think i am, and if anything, im working on being okay witht hat idea.
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Old 03-03-2004, 04:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
Location: ...We have a problem.
Independence is knowing that you don't have to depend on others, being able to walk away, thinking and speaking your mind and being secure enough with yourself to allow yourself to be a nurturer but also be nurtured. It's something to be proud of!
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Old 03-03-2004, 06:52 PM   #12 (permalink)
*Nikki*'s Avatar
Location: Charleston, SC
Does it seem to any of you ladies that men have a much easier time being totally independant then women do?
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Old 03-03-2004, 07:56 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Location: at home
Men cover it up better

Anyone can be passionate, but it takes real lovers to be silly-Rose Franken
....absence makes me miss him more...
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Old 03-04-2004, 12:52 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Location: oregon
i consider myself an independent women because i don't NEED another person to be there for me. i can BE on my own. i consider myself fairly stable in that arena and i have a lot of goals and ambitions that i'm working for--on my own. sure, i may still live with my parents and still depend on them for some things but i have my own spending money and pay my own bills and part of car insurance. i may have a wonderful boyfriend who takes care of me, and is there for me, but i don't depend on him for anything i work for. it is just normal to want intimacy and affection at this stage of my life. i'm not literally independent but in spirit, i think i am.
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Old 03-04-2004, 07:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Location: Euphoria
It is obvious that the view of being independent can vary from one individual to another yet there are clearly aspects of independence that are a pattern here.

I think there is a sense of pride and self dignity that is a driving force behind independence. At least there is for me. I'm not sure that I would agree that being so, involves whether I want a man in my life to share my world with. It is about accomplishing things, setting goals, acting on what has to happen, taking care of the things life gives us.

I own my own home, I pay all my bills, I work hard for what I have, I change out dryer plugs when I find the outlet doesn't match the one the dryer has, I paint walls, I can lay carpet, I do beautiful flower arrangements, and this weekend I am going to tear a wall out in my garage where there is a small room I don't need. These are THINGS that are sometimes viewed as independent.
People say to me quite often, if you weren't so damned independent we would love to help you do stuff. And I admit, I can be independent to a fault.
I also think that when you can walk into a car dealership and they think they got "the woman" and you ask for a specific car and they don't have that right now but look at this... At this point, I, the independent one says "ahem, excuse me sir, DO YOU HAVE THE CAR I SEEK...YES OR NO?" THEN he says well, I can get it here by tomorrow. Well, okay, what is the price? Oh, I can't tell you the price, then you can go to someone else and get them to lower it and I lose you as a customer.
Now ladies, if you have stuck with me this far... THIS is where the truly independent woman steps in and takes charge.
Sir, in your unwillingness to quote me a price for fear I will go elsewhere, you bit off your nose to spite your face. I have no desire to do business with you. I'll go see so & so, they will do me fine. And she walks out. I will take a situation and go into it full blast head on if it is something that I see as a cause.

But yes, I love having a partner to share these things with. To do together or even have him do. I don't feel codependent for having the desire to share the load and not always wanting to do it all. I call that human nature.

And my night meds are kicking in and I think I might have quit making sense 3 paragraphs ago.

In the depth of winter, I finally learned that there was within me an invincible summer.
~Albert Camus

Last edited by Angel; 03-04-2004 at 07:33 PM..
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Old 03-05-2004, 11:18 AM   #16 (permalink)
"Codependent Personality Disorder is a dysfunctional relationship with the self characterized by living through or for another, attempts to control others, blaming others, a sense of victimization, attempts to "fix" others, and intense anxiety around intimacy. It is very common in people raised in dysfunctional families, and in the partners and children of alcoholics and addicts."

I used to exude co-dependent behavior until I learned to look past all the hardships in my family, look past all the negative feelings I had for myself and until I learned not to depend on others for happiness.

I've come to enjoy being alone, making myself happy first instead of living through others and depending on them to make me happy. I also have confidence in who I am as a woman, speak my mind when I need to and say No when I have to. It's a glorious feeling.

I can take care of myself, pay my bills on my own, do everything I need to do on my own. It is nice to have someone else around me to take care of me, but I will do the same for that person in return but I don't NEED it. It's only a want.

If you are needy then consider yourself a co-dependent.
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Old 03-06-2004, 08:54 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Location: Lebell's arms
Independent, as defined above -- yes.
Codependent - no.
Enjoys having someone I can depend on -- absolutely.
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Old 03-07-2004, 01:36 PM   #18 (permalink)
Location: belgium
Originally posted by *Nikki*
Does it seem to any of you ladies that men have a much easier time being totally independant then women do?
Isn't that just because it is expected -by society- of them; men should be strong and independent, and well able to be independent.

For women this is not even considered to be the "standard" situation, think for example of a woman in her thirties that still lives alone in an appartment... it's impossible -again, for society- to believe she does so by free will, she probably just can't get a man or something like that...

Another example: imagine a man sitting alone in a restaurant, or even better at a bar, drinking a beer... this is no strange situation, actually, in almost every bar in town, you'll probably see at least one guy, that's just sitting there, drinking his drink, minding his business (if your lucky )

The same situation, involving a woman, is considered as unnatural. We just can't believe that a woman would be sitting there all by herself, she must be waiting for someone, or --what would be the general thought in the caf-- she probably wants some attention, or is waiting for a guy to approach her and to "get laid" ...

So double standards everywhere, even after all these years of emancipation!

As for your question, "do you consider yourself as an independent woman?" I most certainly do!
But not just in, or within my relationship, also in relation towards friends... I sometimes really nd some time by myself, with no-one around, just me and my mind... On the other hand... i have to admit, that sometimes you wnt your boyfriend with you, but i don't considere this as being dependent from him... this just means that I love him very much, and then off course, you want to spend as much time with him as possible...

Originally posted by *Nikki*
I would rather have him with me 90% of the time. I would rather have a partner who helped pay the bills and help take off some of the stress of living alone. I would like to be married. To have someone always here to come home to.

So does this really make me codependant? Because it seems that I am not independant so much by choice....as circumstance
this does not make you codependant, this just means you love your guy a lot! which is --by the way-- a GOOD thing!
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Old 03-25-2004, 03:55 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Location: in my imagination
i think amonkie hit the nail on the head....
being independant means you CAN make it on your own. there is nothing wrong with wanting someone there with you.....
i want that same thing, though right now i'm self sufficient. i think independant means you think for yourself and don't HAVE to depend on others to survive.
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Old 03-26-2004, 12:20 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Location: near the water
Yes, but only recently, and i mean VERY recently have i been able to make this claim. It's something i wanted, and i'm going for it. It may mean a few sacrifices, but i'm lookin long term i guess.

And as far as being independant having anything to do with wanting to have someone in your life... it's a totally separate issue. I want many things from life, that doesn't make me less independant does it? Whether one of those 'things' is to have someone important in my life to want to be with me, or whether it's just to have a lot of money? *shrugs* i'm not sure if that came out right.
all I wanna do is - give the best of me to you
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Old 04-02-2004, 03:55 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Location: Canada
i think you girls have it. it's a matter of choice.
as far as the men thing, i agree with what lisa said. further, i think financially it's also easier for them to be independent because men generally get paid more than women for the same work. a lot of times when women work it's assumed that she's the second income and so jobs which are generally occupied by women generally have lower salaries, and so it's generally harder to be independent (specifically financially so) on a woman's salary. but i think that just tells us all the more about how powerful we are to be saying that we can be independent.
i'm wondering too, though, is there something to be said for being dependent? i mean, from a game kind of standpoint. if you're "making it" on your own it shows that you've done what you're had to and you've been intelligent enough to get the job, save the money, support yourself in whatever ways, etc. But if you're being codependent, doesn't that show that you've had success too? you've had the intelligence to get someone to care for you to the point of taking care of you. i understand that this might not be so healthy, relying on someone else, but is your own independent life not as likely to crumble once in a while as your partner/supporter's support? I'm just kinda playing devil's advocate here. I've obviously been socialized to think that it's best to be independent, so it's hard for me to argue that other side. but i think it's a side that's fun to look at.
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