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Old 12-20-2009, 05:05 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Location: Spokane, WA
MMO Society, Guild Politics, vs gaming. My personal issues right now....

Ok so after much "hate" towards wow, my neighbor has finally convinced me to play with him a bit more, it's the winter months, i'm not a fan of the cold weather and I usually spend my time watching movies or gaming anyway so, I do this hesitantly with little desire to turn it in to a serious pasttime or lifestyle (no raid scheduling)


That said, this guild he roped me in to seems to be a very diverse mix. Some disabled individuals, military discharged, 60+ "guildfatha" types, and their entire families, a few mid aged couples, single moms and single dads, the whole gamut pretty much.


Some of these people are very bad at this game, some of them are decent/pretty good.

Problem is, the mediocre amongst the shitty players they compare themselves to start to think they're god's gift to wow and I want to punch them through the goddamn screen sometimes.

Maybe I'm spoiled by my hardcore experience of 5+days a week 5+ hours a day raiding mentality, best of the best, no nonsense, do your job or get the fuck out, don't waste our time with your incompetence, know your class, know what is and is not an upgrade for your class, don't hold everyone up going "is this good for me?" if you don't know, don't come to the raid, etc... Don't clutter up vent with idle chatter about stuff that has nothing to do with the task at hand.

yes the above was a semi incoherent mess of mindsets that I just plucked out of the stream of consciousness that represents my prior experience and background in this game.


Of course I know I have to reel it in and just play nice with people who could learn a thing or 2, and I try my best not to come across as arrogant when I'm actually playing the game because it's just not that kind of environment for me.



Anyways I'm not sure what I should be doing at this point, I've advanced incredibly quickly since I hit 80 on this server less than a week ago, I already outgear 2/3rds of their raiding crew thanks to the random lfg system + triumph2T9 welfare epics.


I've become kind of a guilt scapegoat now for every little thing that goes wrong due to the most convoluted series of events ever at this point.


1st, read this comic.



ok so after one particular bad string of pugging experiences I simply said "wow, this tank is so bad it makes me want to flip off a box of kittens and punch a baby"


So out of nowhere this person starts whispering me telling me that it wasn't funny and not to talk about babies like that because she claims she told me this before.

Never talked to this girl before, yet she claims to know me, and claims to have told me not to say stuff like this in the past yet i never made mention of anything baby related before that day. I mean it's not exactly an every day use of my vocabulary.


I tell her OK, not wanting to have some crazy bitch up in my chat window trying to ruin my gameplay experience just because she's oversensitive.

She then persists on the issue, telling me that she had a stillborn last month and thats why she's upset.

Again, I tell her, sorry, and that I wont mention it again.

now, this doesn't mean i turned in to a bleeding heart about it. I play wow to connect with my friend or just waste time, i'm not here to deal with emotionally disturbed individuals, i'm not a licensed therapist, and I'm not your friend.

I just remained neutral and backed off.

end of story?

nah, she went to an officer with it, claiming that it was something I had done repeatedly (yet it being the 1st)

of course the story then gets twisted and it's no longer a fact that I said "punch a baby" no, according to her, I said I wanted to strangle babies.

ok so now i'm pissed off at this stupid cunt. She's just trying to stir up drama and support for her emotional shithole. I can understand being upset and sensitive to the issue, but to go an fucking lie about what I said, and the number of times I said it, simply to garner support to your cause, to gain sympathy and use these people as your free therapy is just sick and disgusting.


he sends me a few whispers about it, I tell him he is misinformed, that I said no such thing, and he drops it right there since he had no proof.



week goes by, I'm pretty geared at this point, i'm talking in gchat trying to get some runs going, and some help on my tradeskills, offering to buy mats since the AH is dry.

She just randomly interjects with how she's upset and crying and feels like shit.

thats it.

completely out of context, destroying whatever gameplay me and the guild had going on with our convo, of course, knight in shining armor syndrome takes place and guys leap to her comfort. She didn't even say what she was upset over, again, this has been a week since I last even registered that she existed....


I just imparted my advice: Sorry to hear that, I generally try to avoid social gaming when I'm upset or in a bad mood, since it's contagious and I wind up dragging people down with me. Feel better soon.


at which point she launches at me in all caps and profanity condemning me for even daring to take away the one thing that takes her mind off the issue of her stillborn.

ok wtf, I didn't even know it was about the kid, for all I know she had a rough day at work, or relationship issues. But no, i'm reminded once again, it's THAT girl.

I simply say "ok, wasn't intended to be me telling you what to do, just ignore that I said it then, sorry" at which point, 2 "white knight" assholes decided to chime in and also call me names, including the previous "officer" who simply asked "are you really that inconsiderate?"

at this point I just snapped, what the hell did I do exactly? I said I don't play wow when i'm upset because it causes stuff like this to happen? does this not prove my point? this is bullshit. I"m not calling anyone names are accusing them of being inconsiderate jerks you know? back off, ignore what I said, move on. Stop with the drama, ffs act your age.


we all agree to stfu and move along past the issue.

Of course it's unresolved and now I have people who think i'm a baby strangling psychopath.

*roll eyes*



and the very next day i caused a bunch of people who lack reading comprehension to gquit apparently.

Me and my friend are "retired" hardcore raiders, we know how to lead raids and kill the good shit, we put together an uld25 run but were 7 shy... all dps, so easily filled with pugs.

My friend was leading the run and stated up front that if any tradeskill drops come up for grabs they were staying in the guild, and that all loot was open rolls for MS > OS to stay fair to the pugs.

well 1st boss down, blade ward enchant drops, friend ML's it to a guildy, pugs go "wtf" and my friend says "we told you up front, if you dont like it, feel free to leave" so 2 people left

then heres where it turns to shit

3 of our own guild members start bitching in vent about it, how it was something that a douchey guild would do, that it was a douche baggy move, etc...

I respond saying "you know, you should probably check what you're saying there, you're basically calling the officers a bunch of douche bags for trying to help the guild" then of course, since I'm the baby strangling asshole, people who had no beef with the loot situation start piping up to tell me to shut the fuck up etc.... including the person who had my friend ML the enchant to them.

needless to say, I was highly amused at this point. Had I just had the enchant ML'd to me, I would have been very quiet if I were in their shoes.

They then start saying they didn't know we were one of those douchey kind of guilds and were thinking of looking elsewhere.

My response: I think it's kind of stupid idea for people to get angry at the guild when the guild is doing things to help them, it's called biting the hand that feeds you."

of course, this is what caused people to gquit, these thin skinned sissies literally voiced their complaint that I directly called them stupid and gquit. Because I said I disagree with the intelligence behind that conclusion, behind that idea, that somehow, I directly called them stupid? right.

It's clear to me that I'm not going to get along with these people, but it's also clear to me that there isn't shit they can do since my friend is also an officer.

So the raid dissolved after flame leviathan, pretty hilarious.

Obviously this is a sticky situation and there isn't really any clear way to "unsticky" it

Myself, I blame poor leadership, the conversations that took place shouldn't have made it that far before an iron fist choked the life out of that drama fire..
or at least told the girl to stop talking about her RL issues in gchat because it's non-condusive to a gaming environment, and personal interactions should remain in tells, private social channels, or guild forums.


Honestly I write this from a cynical/pissed off yet highly amused point of view at this point. But be assured, I was certainly willing to bend my vocab to avoid offending this woman for the 1st couple of weeks, thing is, when people make up their minds to be bitches to you, they'll always be bitches to you, and at that point... who knows how to handle it?



Have any of you ever run a guild or run in to a drama-whore situation like this? did you ever have it dealt with entirely or did it just fester?
What kind of rules would you agree on to keep a truly neutral, gaming focused community in check?

Last edited by Shauk; 12-20-2009 at 05:12 PM..
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Old 12-20-2009, 06:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I have come to realize that people are like a rock. Rocks are not steadfast, in fact, they are impressionable, shaped by the environment.

Stay off WoW my friend. I thought you were trying to loose weight. Focus. Dammit.
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Old 12-20-2009, 06:38 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Location: Spokane, WA
I am, but that's in Jan when I start school, I'm a seasonal bitch.

but I agree, this game is a waste of time, lol. But sometimes I wonder if I could stand to brush up on my social skills after a week of this garbage.
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Old 12-20-2009, 07:06 PM   #4 (permalink)
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1/5th of humanity is a cesspool. Much of that cesspool is drawn to WoW and other online games. I feel your anger. The amount of tardism is astonishing. Lately I go back and forth between punishing them by baiting these tards and being a decent human being and either ignoring them or explaining things to them. But sometimes they just ask for it and a guild/game ban is worth it for the sake of your sanity.

I'm a decent guy, but if I try to be decent to these tards I get emotionally involved (can't help it; I'm trying to connect with them to be decent) and that just ends up making me ragequit all over the place like shauk. Baiting and punishing them may be slightly evil but it keeps me sane.

Hopefully in the future I can separate all emotion from it and remain civil in the face of tardism. Kind of feels like we're in that movie, Idiocracy...
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Old 12-20-2009, 07:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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You guys need to find a way to get paid for applying all this useless knowledge.

Seriously.
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Old 12-20-2009, 07:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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4sure...which knowledge? We gamers have so much useless knowledge...
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Old 12-20-2009, 08:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I don't bother. I don't talk to those that annoy me. I mute them from vent and I ignore them in chats. I don't play with them if I can help it. I don't like people who are selfish assholes who are only interested in themselves. I help others gear up because they help me gear up. The game was designed to be the best you had to help out other people by being your best.

Personally, the game is supposed to be my fun time. If it's not fun I'm not playing. So when someone is being a dick and doesn't make it fun anymore, I have to stop playing for a bit and play with those that I enjoy playing with.

As far as this is concerned, you really can't go into a below casual raiding guild after being into a hardcore raiding guild. Maybe you could be in a serious raiding guild, but casual? I don't think so, I tried it myself and it was annoying to find that I was ready and prepared and knew what gear was for me or not for me. That kind of loot douche baggery tacked on at least 30 minutes to 1 hour for each wing of Naxx. I was so burnt out on raiding that I couldn't and didn't want to consider the offers that were coming from better guilds.

In the end, I moved to where there was better like mindedness and less stupidity. I'm playing with people that I leveled to 60 and did MC, BWL and Kara, people that I enjoyed playing with because they understood in the same manner that I am interested in playing.

Today, we knocked out some Outland Herorics because it would be fun to run. We did it without a tank and we didn't take any dying seriously. It was an enjoyable time to just play and chat on vent without the hardcore game face that we have on when raiding.
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Old 12-20-2009, 08:39 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Guild = drama. That's just the way it is.

As someone who also raided 5+ hours a night 5+ nights a week i'd have to say thats probably adding a bit more stress with that more social family guild type thing. Going from the gramers to the casuals is usually petty frustrating if you care about progression of your character in any way.

The best thing to do is either go unguilded if you know a lot of people on your server or just turn off the drama portion of your brain and just ignore it when you see it. Some people are just drama fountains, they're easy to spot and can usually be avoided. I've found this to be useful both in-game and irl.
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Old 12-21-2009, 07:32 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I've been around on WoW for awhile and have been in every kind of guild you could think of. My favorite guild was a hybrid of Casual and Hardcore. We did raid 3-4 days a week with a group of 20 or so of us that knew our characters and knew how to play. We did have drama like you mentioned before, but the officers (which I was technically one, even if I didn't have any power) handled everything the best way possible. We always posted rules (which pugs didn't get rolling change on items in major Raids, but that was posted WAY before pugging anyone) and followed them. Well, I broke a lot of rules, but it was always in good natured fun. I loved hanging out with everyone in the guild and all of the officers were good friends of mine. We had drunken duels night a lot, where we would setup a channel in vent a bunch of us would get drunk and either do drunk PVP or drunk runs. Hell, the guild leader had my phone number and would call me if I was drunk in the bar and forgot about the raid. I loved it. We were a "bloated" guild, but we still had fun with it.

I also was in the "hardcore" raiders that constally monitored everyone's DPS/HPS and if you dropped below their Raiding Ratio that had to be maintained for you to have a spot in the riad. I didn't heal at a certain amount through the raid I wouldn't get a chance on drops and I was constally being told that I wasn't "playing correctly". I was told that no drinking was allowed during raids because they were there to Raid, not have fun. I hated it and eventually left the guild and WoW because of them. They sucked the fun out of the game. There was no drama because you were kicked with no questions asked because "it was a privilege to be in this guild, we are #blah blah blah in the land". I don't want to raid like that.

I like raiding and all, but sometimes the sacrifices you make to raid at the levels you need to to get the epic lvl gear is sometimes not worth it. Back to the OP, yeah I've made comments like that were taken literally and pissed people off. I also drank alot so most people just said, "Oh he's drunk, don't mind him". They eventually made my guild title as Guild Drunk so people wouldn't take me seriously anymore. Helped a lot.
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Old 12-21-2009, 07:44 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Shit like that is bound to happen when you join a casual guild. The funny part is that the people you're describing aren't gamers...they're people who want to play in a chat room that has a GUI. They don't take the game seriously, and they use WoW has a chat room, nothing more, nothing less. You're simply playing with the wrong people.

I thought I could go from hardcore raiding to casual play and it failed miserably and that's why I quit the game 2 years ago.
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:12 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Ohh man, after reading all this, I now believe WoW is a substitution for a relationship. I'm so glad I never got into it!
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Old 12-21-2009, 09:21 AM   #12 (permalink)
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In my experience, you have three choices at this point:

1) you can continue to bait and to take the bait and wait until some officer picks a side and either kicks you or them (probably you);

2) you can leave yourself and seek greener pastures;

3) you can mute them on vent and ignore them in guild and simply not worry about the fact that they nominally play this game with you.

I don't have any real advice to you about which of these three you should pick, but it sounds like this situation is already pretty stupidly out of control on all sides. I guess what I'd think about is what you want from WoW. If you want to screw off and hang out with people, it might be worth it to stick around and mend fences. If what you want to do is play the game, well, attention whores and internet white knights tend to be some of the worst players, period, and you're cutting off your nose to spite your face by staying in a guild with them anyway.
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Old 12-21-2009, 09:29 AM   #13 (permalink)
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That's just the thing. I don't like playing this game for the sake of relationship building or substitution. I have a very very hard and set rule that anything based in reality takes priority and precedence over anything to do with that game.

Even if it's as something as silly as my neighbor inviting me out to the bar. I mean I'm not a bar type guy but if my alternative is to sit at home and nerd out on a game that ultimately has no ending or sense of permanent gratification, I'd rather not.

Only thing I play for is the story and challenge of certain scenarios.

I did ICC for the 1st time yesterday and was pretty surprised at how easy it was to clear it (what's open of it anyway)

so now that i've put that notch on my belt, I feel "done" with the game again.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:48 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Location: Spokane, WA
well, it's all a moot point, feel free to bury this thread I guess.

I'm pretty much quitting again. lol.

as I suspected, the crazy bitch went and spent the last week spreading lies, went so far as to have her boyfriend get on an alt and pretend to be me and harrass her and then take screenshots to show officers saying that it was me.

of course nobody ever asked for my half of the story because hey, there is no way a girl would lie right?

yeah so they decided to go ahead and remove me.

fine by me, who wants to be in a group like that?
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Old 12-22-2009, 02:03 PM   #15 (permalink)
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wow.. that's just batshiat crazy.
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Old 12-22-2009, 02:54 PM   #16 (permalink)
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You should just spam her with "Baby Killer!" til you're banned from the game. If you're gonna be accused of something you've never done and get punished for it you may as well just go ahead and do that thing cuz what else could happen?

(^ I would never actually do that btw )
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Last edited by ObieX; 12-22-2009 at 09:23 PM..
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:56 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Is there anything in the EULA about impersonating another player? Because if there is you could use that to get your revenge, at least. Why let the psychos get away with crap like that?

---------- Post added at 07:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 PM ----------

Oh yeah, and sending a tip to Guildwatch on wow.com about this would be neat too. Nothing like public humiliation to help settle the score.
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:26 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Honestly I stopped reading when she called you a baby strangler.

I don't mean this in a derogatory way, but you need to not care about the game so much. If you don't like someone's play style, you shouldn't get pissed at them. If they are actively dragging down your group, try and show them what they are doing and how they can improve. If they just do things that annoy you but don't hurt you or the party at all, just ignore it. Newbies might be frustrating, but the "hardcore" players who get pissed and criticize everybody who isn't as good as them are the ones truly ruining the game.

I'm not saying you're in the wrong here, but this could have all been avoided if you just cared less. I would have replied to the lady with a "lol" or a "whatever". If she appealed to a guild officer to get me kicked, I would have replied with a "lol" or a "whatever". It's a game, it's not really worth the effort of caring that much about it.

I've been in a few raiding guilds and I just hate it. Everybody's so serious business. It sucks all of the fun out of the game. I prefer rolling in smaller, tightly knit guilds that don't raid but just have a great community and everybody has fun. Guilds with the type of people that wouldn't be offended at talk about punching babies.
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:53 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Location: Spokane, WA
kinda moot, I quit after all this went down.

I've no reason to play with people like that.

Care less, I was/am at my low point of caring...
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Old 01-09-2010, 07:40 AM   #20 (permalink)
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this is precisely why i quit WoW after playing hard since beta.

1) Drama from some stupid chick

2) Pug runs with guildies who have no clue

3) Idiot officers

4) lack of real fun anymore

5) WoW just isnt real fun in general who has the time to be "hardcore"

6) oh and the worst when playing with RL friends the guild drama follows you into real life. I lost friends due to guild drama

7) im better off without WoW cant wait for TOR though
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Old 01-09-2010, 10:11 AM   #21 (permalink)
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It would seem that things such as WoW attracts a higher than average proportion of emotionally unstable people. Either that, or it's more difficult to keep it reined in while logged into quasi-anonymous virtual worlds.

If you guys were LARPing instead, I'm sure it would go down a bit differently.

Or maybe not.

I know office politics happens in workplaces everywhere, but some of the stories I hear coming out of WoW are rich. But, then again, the way things work on WoW are out of whack compared to the real world. The management of guilds, raids, and loot isn't conducive to the common practices of the real-life Western world. Maybe that's why I didn't really get into it. Maybe Eve Online is more my speed. Then again, maybe it's all the same.

"Must be geared or you'll be booted!!!!11"
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:56 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Location: Orlando, Florida
I was formerly a co-leader of a roleplaying guild in WoW, and the leader had recently begun acting with total insecurity and clinginess. Her emotional baggage and relationship issues became the focus of all our conversations, and whenever I logged on, I was bombarded with whining requests to come run through a dungeon with her, or sit at a tavern and roleplay. I couldn't stand dungeon runs at that point, and the roleplaying became a one-sided, pitiful attempt on her part at seduction. I clearly communicated that I was uninterested in her advances, but she refused to back down.

I ended up quitting the guild with the second co-leader, causing the girl to violently lash out at me with guilt tripping attempts. She apparently felt so sick that she couldn't play WoW. I ignored her and happily moved on.

My point? Don't put up with insecure, emotionally discombobulated leeches seeking to boost their self worth by ejecting their repugnant bile on those around them. Leave drama behind and find a guild that is more conducive to your goals in the game. For me, that is casual interaction with a tightly knit group of experienced roleplayers who demand a certain maturity level from guild members.

In summary, if you come across a drama whore, pop a cap in her ass or get out of town.
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